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Old 11th November 2023, 03:27 AM   #361
GlennB
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As I pointed out, this has nothing to do with 'national security'.

Here you can ring up the national population centre and ask for anybody's address. When I worked in insolvency practice we had no problem in finding people and discovering what assets they owned via Land Registry and it was all quite legal.
Nobody cares. Why do you keep mentioning it when it's totally ******* irrelevant?

You cannot determine an owner's name and address via a car reg. IN THE UK except by written application to DVLA, and they will want a good, well-documented reason and are notoriously slow.
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Old 11th November 2023, 03:38 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by Dabop View Post
It actually worked out only about 100kg heavier than normal- and in a ute with a 1000kg payload capacity, and a 2400kg tow capacity- that 100kg is practically nothing....

Losing a cast iron diesel block, and a 75L fuel tank makes up almost all the extra battery weight...
And it has a massive improvement in acceleration to boot- he can easily take on V8's with a 0-100 time of about 7 seconds- the stock 3L diesel takes about 15 seconds to to the same thing...
He also gets to run basically for free (only rego and tyres etc) since 2009, where my almost identical ute (except mines 4wd) costs $10 per 100km in fuel alone...

(his house is offgrid, with his solar panels recharging the ute during the day, as well as the house battery bank)

I mentioned it previously but there is a good tv show all about converting cars to EV. It follows a company in Wales that specialise in it.
Lots of custom engineering of mounts and adapter plates involved.

https://www.vintagevoltage.tv/
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Old 11th November 2023, 04:01 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
AIUI It was one and a half hours to the floor collapsing.
One and a half hours after what point, and based on what evidence?

When so many cars had been ablaze for so long what made you decide you knew exactly which car from floor 3 was shown falling through a collapsing floor in a video that may well be a camera on the ground floor?

Rhetorical question of course: you just made it up. You made up a story in your head and that became the truth for you and how dare these fools challenge it?

This thread is a low ebb.
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Old 11th November 2023, 04:08 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
DAILY TELEGRAPH calls it 'one car'.


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSZUBvdo1bw
After one diesel car caught alight, and then the fire spread to other cars...
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Old 11th November 2023, 04:10 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
DAILY TELEGRAPH calls it 'one car'.


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Why would you rely on a second hand source in a newspaper rather than the fire service themselves?
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Old 11th November 2023, 04:16 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
One and a half hours after what point, and based on what evidence?

When so many cars had been ablaze for so long what made you decide you knew exactly which car from floor 3 was shown falling through a collapsing floor in a video that may well be a camera on the ground floor?

Rhetorical question of course: you just made it up. You made up a story in your head and that became the truth for you and how dare these fools challenge it?

This thread is a low ebb.
Hard to see how it could be anything else. There are entry barriers there and I've only ever seen those at the ground level.
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Old 11th November 2023, 04:35 AM   #367
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I still would like to see their filled in insurance form. "Please list other vehicles involved in the claim", "Please list the damage to the other vehicles involved in the incident".
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Old 11th November 2023, 04:36 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by Andy_Ross View Post
Why would you rely on a second hand source in a newspaper rather than the fire service themselves?
Me! Me! Pick me!!

Sophistry.

Google dictionary:


noun sophistry
the use of fallacious arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving.
a fallacious argument.

specious reasoning the use of fallacious arguments sophism casuistry quibbling equivocation fallaciousness fallacious argument sophism fallacy quibble paralogism
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Old 11th November 2023, 06:06 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by Andy_Ross View Post
Why would you rely on a second hand source in a newspaper rather than the fire service themselves?
Because conspiracies abound!!! Official statements are always worded to deceive and cover up vitally important information. Only intrepid reporters (and renowned internet sleuths ) have the fortitude to ferret out the actual details and report them accurately. Anything written in a newspaper (or blog, etc.) is true by virtue of where it is reported, and cannot be questioned.
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Old 11th November 2023, 07:45 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
His video was used by the worldwide press, including BBC, ITV, APF and Reuters. He confirmed it was his original and he has the copyright. Unlike the guy who claims to have the film from the front of the vehicle and the person who claims to have deciphered the number plate and identified the make and model. Learn to spot fake from authentic.
You think that online AI can match a scene so well in a video? Maybe a professional job can do well, but a low number of followers suggests he's not a pro troll.

I could be wrong, but your list of discrepancies suggests that you are quick to dismiss evidence that doesn't suit you.

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Old 11th November 2023, 07:52 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
They are just giving you bland platitudes. Within hours a fire fighter told a journalist it was probably a fuel line leak (just like the one in Liverpool). Learn to differentiate considered speculation from confirmed fact.

It is clear the brand is being protected for now or it would have been named.

It is only speculation it was a Range Rover. Some say it is a Tesla from its outline.
Again, you are missing the point. They could have said nothing about whether it was vehicle fault, driver fault or intentional. If they're trying to avoid casting attention on the manufacturer, this would be the thing to do. If they're willing to bend the truth, either of the other two causes would serve a purpose.

If the arrest announcement was intended to distract attention away from the vehicle, then they purposely undercut its affect by blaming vehicle fault in the same press conference.

It doesn't matter whether the phrase "vehicle fault" is vague or precise. It has the opposite effect of what you claim they desired.
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Old 11th November 2023, 08:00 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Learn to spot fake from authentic.
This thread has given us so many opportunities to learn that skill that we should, by now, be pretty good at distinguishing fake expertise from authentic.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Learn to differentiate considered speculation from confirmed fact.
Good idea.

These are confirmed facts:
Originally Posted by Andy_Ross View Post
It has been confirmed that it was a diesel car. You can read it on the official fire service website.
Originally Posted by Andy_Ross View Post
It has been confirmed that it was a diesel car by the fire service.
Originally Posted by Andy_Ross View Post
It has been confirmed to be a diesel car by the fire service.
It was confirmed weeks ago.
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Old 11th November 2023, 08:00 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The spread of fire is quite predictable. This is why fire prevention and safety measures work. When they go wrong it will be to do with human error.
So, it is your opinion that if there are two car park fires that began with the same make of vehicle and both lead to a collapse of the car park, then the length of time from ignition of the fire to the collapse will be roughly the same? If it varies by too much, then the two initial vehicles cannot be the same?

We haven't heard whether the two car parks had the same density of vehicles, how many vehicles were close to the initial vehicle and other details of vehicle placement. You and I don't know about differences in construction of the car park, whether the effects of ventilation were similar and I'm sure a million details that I'm just too ignorant to come up with. But no matter. Range Rover? Check. Car park? Check. Eventual collapse? Check. Conclusion: If the three things above are true, the time to collapse will be roughly the same.

Is that how it works?

The expected rate of fire spread might be well known (or maybe it isn't), but it isn't known by you, Vixen.

I don't know how long the fire lasted in Liverpool. The one in Luton took around two hours or so before the collapse. How long in Liverpool?
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Old 11th November 2023, 08:08 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
AIUI It was one and a half hours to the floor collapsing.
You didn't address anything I asked, or any points I made.

Do you think that video shows a single, electric powered vehicle melting through the floor of the garage?

Why won't you acknowledge the NHTSA report finding that EVs and hybrid fires are no more intense than gasoline and diesel vehicle fires?
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Old 11th November 2023, 08:21 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The spread of fire is quite predictable.
No.

There was a considerable amount of study done on this in the wake of the 9/11 attacks. As usual, you don't know what you're talking about.

Last edited by JayUtah; 11th November 2023 at 08:23 AM.
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Old 11th November 2023, 08:22 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Learn to spot fake from authentic.
Armchair detectives are worse than useless.
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Old 11th November 2023, 08:36 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Learn to spot fake from authentic.
Like when someone say, "In my expert opinion as someone who used to work the ticket booth in a parking garage back in the '90s..."?
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Old 11th November 2023, 08:38 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
I've only done one motor vehicle conversion. It was a 1917 Ford Model T we bought for use in the theater (Ragtime). We removed the gasoline engine altogether and sold it to a restorer. We then connected a 4 h.p. DC electric motor directly to the drive shaft and powered it with a mess of 12-volt regular car batteries stashed in the (now largely empty) engine compartment. Not strictly street legal, and never caught fire.
Did you do something to keep the engine noise?
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Old 11th November 2023, 08:40 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
DAILY TELEGRAPH calls it 'one car'.


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So what? 1,400 vehicles burned. A quarter-kilotonne of plastic fuel.
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Old 11th November 2023, 08:43 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Here we have someone who believes in obviously fake news and has the temerity to claim they have 'drivel' detectors.

We're still waiting for you to prove the fire started in anything other than a diesel....
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Old 11th November 2023, 08:44 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Dodgy site. Try to copy and paste the text, it takes you to unasked for adverts.

And yet it took me mere seconds to find a site carrying the story without such.....
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Old 11th November 2023, 08:45 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
But the link to your car registration isn't.
Mere facts....
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Old 11th November 2023, 08:47 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Nobody has claimed a link to 'national security'. What a weird thing to say.
The straw blower was in action.
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Old 11th November 2023, 08:54 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post

And yet it took me mere seconds to find a site carrying the story without such.....
Ditto. Vixen posted the screen shot in order to leave out vital information. Pitiful.
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Old 11th November 2023, 09:00 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Ditto. Vixen posted the screen shot in order to leave out vital information. Pitiful.
Indeed, not even a good attempt at deception.
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Old 11th November 2023, 09:10 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Did you do something to keep the engine noise?
We just had the actor playing Colehouse go "Pbpbpbpbpbp..." with his lips.

All seriousness aside, we experimented with a sound module and speakers, but in the end we had engine noises in the sound mix. This was back in the early 2000s and we didn't have a reliable way to operate the sound module remotely.
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Old 11th November 2023, 09:12 AM   #387
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I heard about a house that burned down from a lit cigarette. Cover up sheeple! We all know that cigarettes don't burn hot enough to gut an entire house. Maybe it was an eCigarette and the government's suppressing it?
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Old 11th November 2023, 09:25 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
One and a half hours after what point, and based on what evidence?

When so many cars had been ablaze for so long what made you decide you knew exactly which car from floor 3 was shown falling through a collapsing floor in a video that may well be a camera on the ground floor?

Rhetorical question of course: you just made it up. You made up a story in your head and that became the truth for you and how dare these fools challenge it?

This thread is a low ebb.
The Fire Brigade called major incident 21:38 as the time the fire could not be contained. The date and time-stamped CCTV video of the floor collapsing was reported by reporters as being 'about 23:30'. But see Mr. O'Reardon's authenticated video, which he tweeted at 23:15 10 October time-stamped by X/Twitter, so it was even earlier than that. That makes it closer to one and a half hours than two hours. The initial fire was first reported 20:47. 10 October.

Take a moment to think about how incredibly fast all of this was, when Liverpool ECHO Fire took two hours before it was declared uncontrollable.
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Last edited by Vixen; 11th November 2023 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 11th November 2023, 09:27 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
After one diesel car caught alight, and then the fire spread to other cars...
Read the captions which DAILY TELEGRAPH itself notated over the video.
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Old 11th November 2023, 09:37 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Take a moment to think about how incredibly fast all of this was, when Liverpool ECHO Fire took two hours before it was declared uncontrollable.
I've taken several decades to consider such things. You are not the teacher. You're frantically waving your ignorant hands trying to make enough hay to get attention. Armchair detectives are worse than useless.
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Old 11th November 2023, 09:38 AM   #391
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I still would like to see their filled in insurance form. "Please list other vehicles involved in the claim", "Please list the damage to the other vehicles involved in the incident".
If the urban myth turns out to be true and the owner is a toff who could afford a 100,000 personalized number plate and who expected airport staff to deal with his smouldering car whilst he raced off to his flight for his 'urgent meeting', then think of his face when he is hit with the bill for 1,400 cars, his insurers covering the first 2m Public cover maximum. As I recall, the Cork fire bill came to claims of over 30m and that was only 60 vehicles destroyed, plus damage to a shopping centre. Add up the Luton fire and we are seeing 20m building costs (built by Buckinghamshire Construction, which went bust a couple of years ago) plus, plus, plus +++. This urban myth guy, if he is wealthy won't be wealthy for much longer. If he is on benefits, he could pay it off at 1 a week by arrangement with his creditors and DWP Universal Credit.
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Old 11th November 2023, 09:39 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
You think that online AI can match a scene so well in a video? Maybe a professional job can do well, but a low number of followers suggests he's not a pro troll.

I could be wrong, but your list of discrepancies suggests that you are quick to dismiss evidence that doesn't suit you.

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No media has used it AFAIAA, whilst the back view has been published extensively, including the BBC.
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Old 11th November 2023, 09:42 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Read the captions which DAILY TELEGRAPH itself notated over the video.
"Video footage has emerged apparently showing the moment a multi-storey car park at Luton Airport partially collapsed after a diesel car caught fire before spreading to other vehicles.

CCTV captured from inside the terminal car park appears to show the ceiling crashing to the ground after one car caught alight on Tuesday night.

The Telegraph has spoken to multiple airport workers who say the footage, which is dated on Tuesday, is accurate."

link (The Global Herald, stating it's The Telegraph's original words)

Is that what you mean?
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Old 11th November 2023, 09:42 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Again, you are missing the point. They could have said nothing about whether it was vehicle fault, driver fault or intentional. If they're trying to avoid casting attention on the manufacturer, this would be the thing to do. If they're willing to bend the truth, either of the other two causes would serve a purpose.

If the arrest announcement was intended to distract attention away from the vehicle, then they purposely undercut its affect by blaming vehicle fault in the same press conference.

It doesn't matter whether the phrase "vehicle fault" is vague or precise. It has the opposite effect of what you claim they desired.
'Vehicle fault' is just a platitudinous variation of 'it appears accidental, at this stage'.


This means from what witnesses have reported this is what it appears to be at first sight. The Fire Brigade still have to investigate properly and bring out a Fire Report into the blaze, this time based on solid fact and not initial speculation.
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Old 11th November 2023, 09:49 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
So, it is your opinion that if there are two car park fires that began with the same make of vehicle and both lead to a collapse of the car park, then the length of time from ignition of the fire to the collapse will be roughly the same? If it varies by too much, then the two initial vehicles cannot be the same?

We haven't heard whether the two car parks had the same density of vehicles, how many vehicles were close to the initial vehicle and other details of vehicle placement. You and I don't know about differences in construction of the car park, whether the effects of ventilation were similar and I'm sure a million details that I'm just too ignorant to come up with. But no matter. Range Rover? Check. Car park? Check. Eventual collapse? Check. Conclusion: If the three things above are true, the time to collapse will be roughly the same.

Is that how it works?

The expected rate of fire spread might be well known (or maybe it isn't), but it isn't known by you, Vixen.

I don't know how long the fire lasted in Liverpool. The one in Luton took around two hours or so before the collapse. How long in Liverpool?
If anything, the Liverpool ECHO fire should have been far faster ceteris paribus as despite being classed as an open-sided car park, its sheer floor area gave it the effect of being semi-closed (thus having a detrimental effect on the speed of fire spreading) as is explained in the Merseyside Fire Brigade's report. Fire chiefs said this was the worst car park fire they had seen.

The Luton car park fire spread twice as fast (51 minutes from first alarm to major incident) as the Liverpool one (almost two hours before firemen had to retreat from the building, when it spread to the next floor up).
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Last edited by Vixen; 11th November 2023 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 11th November 2023, 09:51 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
You didn't address anything I asked, or any points I made.

Do you think that video shows a single, electric powered vehicle melting through the floor of the garage?

Why won't you acknowledge the NHTSA report finding that EVs and hybrid fires are no more intense than gasoline and diesel vehicle fires?
I was quoting the DAILY TELEGRAPH.

Not true. Lithium battery fires burn at a much higher temperature than petrol or diesel.
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Old 11th November 2023, 09:52 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Nobody has claimed a link to 'national security'. What a weird thing to say.
YOU said it was to do with security.
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Old 11th November 2023, 09:54 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Ditto. Vixen posted the screen shot in order to leave out vital information. Pitiful.
Did you try copying and pasting text from my link? Well, what happened? Dodgy site or not, as I said.


Judging others by your own standards again I see.
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Old 11th November 2023, 09:55 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
If anything...
"Because Vixen says so."
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Old 11th November 2023, 09:57 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
YOU said it was to do with security.
Data security, personal security. National security is an entirely different matter.
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