Continuation Luton Airport Car Park Fire part II

[MarkCorrigan]

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

Doesn't explain anything, isn't an excuse and still doesn't answer the question.

Still no response then?

[GraculusTheGreenBird]

Edited by Agatha:

Edited to remove a breach of rule 0 and rule 12

[I Am The Scum]

Originally Posted by phiwum

If he turned the car into a hybrid, then he's responsible for the fire if, as you claim, it began with the battery.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

This would also completely undermine the initial pitch of the conspiracy theory. If this really was some slipshod garage mechanic job that caused the fire, then why the coverup? Why would a dangerous homebrew hybrid hurt the sales of factory-made vehicles?

[lobosrul5]

Originally Posted by Vixen

It's not mutually exclusive.

Yes it is.

Either the manufacturer ****** up with a ****** design or defect, or the guy had an aftermarket* or DIY EV conversion.

*did some googling and no one in the UK seems to offer such

[Darat]

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

Yes it is.

Either the manufacturer ****** up with a ****** design or defect, or the guy had an aftermarket* or DIY EV conversion.

*did some googling and no one in the UK seems to offer such

Aw but did you check the dark net?

[lobosrul5]

Originally Posted by Darat

Aw but did you check the dark net?

I'll get right on it! /s

Of course if it was an unlicensed black or grey market job, then he's still on the hook for it going wrong. Not Jaguar-Land Rover, or whatever they're going by these days.

[Jack by the hedge]

So Vixen's clutched-straw fantasy is that the car's owner converted it from a diesel to a diesel hybrid (though she can find no evidence at all showing anybody has ever done that, probably because it has literally never been done) and yet he did not tell the DVLA to request the car be reclassified to a lower CO₂ emissions bracket to save on tax, nor tell his insurer that he had modified the car (almost certainly voiding his insurance). Then its hybrid battery caught fire, emitting burning shrapnel which somehow pierced the fuel tank at the opposite end of the car (although we await Vixen's evidence that burning EV batteries actually emit such shrapnel, capable of punching through something like a fuel tank).

Not even Vixen actually believes this is what happened. It's like a God of the gaps argument except you have to put your fingers in your ears and go la-la-la-la to maintain the fiction that some of the gaps even exist.

[lobosrul5]

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

So Vixen's clutched-straw fantasy is that the car's owner converted it from a diesel to a diesel hybrid (though she can find no evidence at all showing anybody has ever done that, probably because it has literally never been done) and yet he did not tell the DVLA to request the car be reclassified to a lower CO₂ emissions bracket to save on tax, nor tell his insurer that he had modified the car (almost certainly voiding his insurance). Then its hybrid battery caught fire, emitting burning shrapnel which somehow pierced the fuel tank at the opposite end of the car (although we await Vixen's evidence that burning EV batteries actually emit such shrapnel, capable of punching through something like a fuel tank).

Not even Vixen actually believes this is what happened. It's like a God of the gaps argument except you have to put your fingers in your ears and go la-la-la-la to maintain the fiction that some of the gaps even exist.

That also leaves WHY THE COVERUP!? Why would the PM or his wife care if DIY EV work went wrong?! They could just say hey look, buy your EV's from a real manufacturer, don't tinker around in your garage with this ****.

[Roger Ramjets]

Originally Posted by I Am The Scum

If this really was some slipshod garage mechanic job that caused the fire, then why the coverup?

You know why. Fossil fuels good, EVs bad. When this fire was reported everybody said "This is the end for EVs. Nobody will ever touch one again after this disaster!" - and we would be rid of the evil things for good.

But the fire service said it was a diesel car, not an EV or even a hybrid (which all have lithium batteries too you know). So now there's a big problem. Like a game of Reversi, that one piece of information flips all the counters from black to white - and now fossil fuels are the bad guy!

No wonder people think it's a conspiracy. The government and Big Battery have a vested interest this not being an EV fire, so they are covering it up, period. The logic is unassailable, no proof needed. But the sheeple are still being fooled by the 'liberal' media, so those of us who are too smart to be fooled need to show them evidence that the wool is being pulled over their eyes. This is not hard, because we know it was actually an EV a hybrid, so anomalies must abound - all we have to do is point them out.

[Jack by the hedge]

So it was an EV from the future sent back to destroy EVs before they can take over the world. Sent to 2014 when they didn't have an EV model, wearing a fake 'diesel' badge and a false moustache and biding its time for 9 years until it suddenly burned down a car park using its burning shrapnel and concrete melting abilities which all armchair detectives instantly recognized as signs and portents of lithium.

[I Am The Scum]

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

So it was an EV from the future sent back to destroy EVs before they can take over the world. Sent to 2014 when they didn't have an EV model, wearing a fake 'diesel' badge and a false moustache and biding its time for 9 years until it suddenly burned down a car park using its burning shrapnel and concrete melting abilities which all armchair detectives instantly recognized as signs and portents of lithium.

The perfect crime

[novaphile]

Originally Posted by malbui

I believe there was a publicly consultable car registration directory in Belgium the best part of 100 years ago because it was a plot point in an early Tintin story. But it doesn’t exist now.

On the EV conversion front, I learned to drive in a Peugeot 205 back in the day and we’ve recently uncovered that very car in the back of a barn up in the mountains. We’re talking about a summer conversion project but we - including an uncle who used to run a garage and an uncle and a cousin who run a sizeable electricians business - are doing a lot of reading before taking a decision. It’s not exactly a weekend job using household tools.

Note that creating a hybrid vehicle is much harder.

[JayUtah]

I've only done one motor vehicle conversion. It was a 1917 Ford Model T we bought for use in the theater (Ragtime). We removed the gasoline engine altogether and sold it to a restorer. We then connected a 4 h.p. DC electric motor directly to the drive shaft and powered it with a mess of 12-volt regular car batteries stashed in the (now largely empty) engine compartment. Not strictly street legal, and never caught fire.

[Andy_Ross]

Back in the early 80s I converted a Yamaha RD250 to a 400 by swapping the barrels, rods and pistons.
It was still badged as a 250 and that's what it said on the V5 but there was no way to tell without measuring things.
Fastest learner bike in the country lol

It never caught fire.

[P.J. Denyer]

Originally Posted by Andy_Ross

Back in the early 80s I converted a Yamaha RD250 to a 400 by swapping the barrels, rods and pistons.
It was still badged as a 250 and that's what it said on the V5 but there was no way to tell without measuring things.
Fastest learner bike in the country lol

It never caught fire.

Nice, I briefly had an RD350LC Mk1 with a Stan Stephens Stage 2 tune. Scary fast, also never caught fire (though it did seize a couple of times)

[novaphile]

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

Nice, I briefly had an RD350LC Mk1 with a Stan Stephens Stage 2 tune. Scary fast, also never caught fire (though it did seize a couple of times)

OOOOoooh, I can play this game...

I had a beat up HR Holden station wagon. It needed a new 161 engine, but just for fun, while the engine was being rebuilt, my friends put in a smaller block engine with a miss-matched head, which resulted in an engine with ludicrously high compression.

So much so, I had to run it on 'racing fuel' to prevent pre-detonation.

It was a lot of fun, but I ended up with a wrecked drive shaft and differential which resulted in me having to replace a LOT of the drive train (including both rear axles).

[Andy_Ross]

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

Nice, I briefly had an RD350LC Mk1 with a Stan Stephens Stage 2 tune. Scary fast, also never caught fire (though it did seize a couple of times)

Never had an LC, just the air cooled, then passed my test and moved on to 'big' bikes.

[Dabop]

Home made conversions to pure EV are around (never seen or heard of a home made hybrid though- although it is 'technically' possible, its much harder than a pure ev conversion....
Pull the original ICE motor, and fit a electric motor in its place, fit batteries and controllers and done...



I used to live about 5km from a guy in Mackay that had a Hilux converted to an EV, and it was indeed a LOT of work to do- up to and including making a home made adapter plate to connect the electric motor and the gearbox- which he actually cast himself- in his kids sand box lol



One thing that (as usual) has escaped Vixen is that most EV's don't use the 'explosive' Li-PO cells (Tesla is pretty much one of the few that do) but use LiFePO4 cells- which are MUCH less flammable (indeed I have never heard of one ever doing anything but swelling and splitting the case- and that is rare as well)- even Tesla now use them in the model 3 built in China and Europe (the LiFePO4 cells for Tesla are actually made by the Chinese EV manufacturer BYD)- the density is slightly less than Li-PO (meaning slightly less range) but they have a much longer life expectancy (nearly double) and they handle 'fast charging' much better than Li-PO cells do- so by sacrificing range slightly (about 10%) you get faster 'fast charging' (about half the time) and a longer battery pack life expectancy (8-10 years for a Li-PO, against 15-20 years for a LiFePO4 pack)- a fair tradeoff in the eyes of most owners (many EV's literally could get by with charging once a week/fortnight for 'average' use!!!)

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by Dabop

Home made conversions to pure EV are around (never seen or heard of a home made hybrid though- although it is 'technically' possible, its much harder than a pure ev conversion....
Pull the original ICE motor, and fit a electric motor in its place, fit batteries and controllers and done...

Is there a change in weight, and does this have implications for the suspension?

[Dabop]

It actually worked out only about 100kg heavier than normal- and in a ute with a 1000kg payload capacity, and a 2400kg tow capacity- that 100kg is practically nothing....

Losing a cast iron diesel block, and a 75L fuel tank makes up almost all the extra battery weight...
And it has a massive improvement in acceleration to boot- he can easily take on V8's with a 0-100 time of about 7 seconds- the stock 3L diesel takes about 15 seconds to to the same thing...
He also gets to run basically for free (only rego and tyres etc) since 2009, where my almost identical ute (except mines 4wd) costs $10 per 100km in fuel alone...

(his house is offgrid, with his solar panels recharging the ute during the day, as well as the house battery bank)

[P.J. Denyer]

Originally Posted by Andy_Ross

Never had an LC, just the air cooled, then passed my test and moved on to 'big' bikes.

I was post 125cc limit so it was a 'big bike' for me (insurance costs kept me on lower capacity bikes for years).

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by GlennB

Meaningless pseudo-science. Maybe even worse than that. Just drivel.

Why did you write "the burning vehicle"? That's clearly the ground floor and vehicle #0 was a few floors above. Directly above was also a raging inferno with hundreds of cars ablaze.

DAILY TELEGRAPH calls it 'one car'.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSZUBvdo1bw

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

Vixen, do you really expect anyone to believe - no, do you really believe that a Li-ion battery in a car could melt through the floor of the garage so fast that you wouldn't see any molten concrete or steel dripping through before it could all come through? Do you think that a Li-ion battery fire is so intense that it would "melt" through the concrete floor in an instant, and that a fire that staggeringly hot would still leave a recognizable car to fall through?

The Daily Mail is written by and for idiots, so their headline is predictably sensationalized. "Moment Range Rover explodes" (they didn't even get the make right) sounds way more dramatic than "Moment span collapses due to massive, prolonged fire involving numerous cars".

And why do you keep ignoring the NHTSA study showing that Li-ion vehicle fires are, at worst, no more destructive than in gasoline or diesel vehicles? Is NHTSA part of the sinister plot? Did they fake that study six years ago at the behest of a foreign auto manufacturer?

AIUI It was one and a half hours to the floor collapsing.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by phiwum

Ah, this twitter guy has 8,000 or so followers. So, we know that videos posted by someone with 8,000 followers are trustworthy, while those with only 232 followers are unreliable.

How many followers are enough to make video tweets reliable exactly? Or is the blue check mark the mark of integrity?

His video was used by the worldwide press, including BBC, ITV, APF and Reuters. He confirmed it was his original and he has the copyright. Unlike the guy who claims to have the film from the front of the vehicle and the person who claims to have deciphered the number plate and identified the make and model. Learn to spot fake from authentic.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by phiwum

Right, it's not mutually exclusive.

But let's go with the working hypothesis that the prime minister (or maybe someone even higher up) wants to deflect blame from Land Rover. That's why, after all, you said the arrest was made, to distract attention away from the manufacturer.

Why would you publicly claim that the fire was a result of vehicle fault on the same day? Why not just remain silent on that point? If you're trying to avoid attention on the manufacturer, mentioning vehicle fault is a poor strategy.

Are these people just stupid? They announced the arrest like the higher-ups ordered, but they forgot to strike mention of vehicle fault from the press conference notes?

Your theory makes little sense.

They are just giving you bland platitudes. Within hours a fire fighter told a journalist it was probably a fuel line leak (just like the one in Liverpool). Learn to differentiate considered speculation from confirmed fact.

It is clear the brand is being protected for now or it would have been named.

It is only speculation it was a Range Rover. Some say it is a Tesla from its outline.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by phiwum

Different buildings, different situations, fires can behave differently. Were I a fire expert, perhaps I could see something suspicious in these different rates of spread or perhaps not. But like you, I don't know much about fires. Unlike you, I don't expect every parking garage fire started by an ICE car to spread at exactly the same rate.

The spread of fire is quite predictable. This is why fire prevention and safety measures work. When they go wrong it will be to do with human error.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by catsmate

The Luton Airport ard park fire began in a 2013 diesel Range Rover. No lithium batteries needed.

Here we have someone who believes in obviously fake news and has the temerity to claim they have 'drivel' detectors.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by Mojo

Why do you think Vixen posted a screenshot instead of a link?

Dodgy site. Try to copy and paste the text, it takes you to unasked for adverts.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

Just to re-iterate what the likes of Catsmate have already said: this is utter nonsense, totally not true and in no way a reflection of how the UK public sector deals with personal information (veteran of many years of public sector IG training here, who lives with someone who's done even more of it, both of whom have used their knowledge to hit lax organisations over the head and change their practice).

Your name and address is in the public domain. People can look up your address on the Electoral Register, which is also available online. People can also subscribe to 191 and look up anybody's address. People can look up your birth and marriage certificates, and other personal details from the Public Records Office. The owner of your property can be found on the Land Registry by anybody. You can opt out of your details being visible on the Electoral Register and you can ask the Preferential Mailing lists to take your name and address off their 'marketing spam' lists. None of this breaks the DPA.

I would not be surprised if anyone can apply to DVLA through the correct means to identify a vehicle should you have good reason, such as a hit and miss or damage to your property. Insurers have a way of identifying the other driver.

It is nonsense to claim that it is a national security risk and a breach of law for this information to be public. It is probably not online but through special application because there is no centralised database to cope with idle internet surfing.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

Still no response then?

Please remind me what it is you are requesting.

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Your name and address is in the public domain.

But the link to your car registration isn't.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by Mojo

But the link to your car registration isn't.

As I pointed out, this has nothing to do with 'national security'.

Here you can ring up the national population centre and ask for anybody's address. When I worked in insolvency practice we had no problem in finding people and discovering what assets they owned via Land Registry and it was all quite legal.

[Andy_Ross]

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

I was post 125cc limit so it was a 'big bike' for me (insurance costs kept me on lower capacity bikes for years).

As soon as I passed I sold the RD and got a Kawasaki Z650. Lovely bikes, same bike as the legendary Z1 but smaller capacity and slightly lighter. A good Z1 goes for around £20k now but a good Z650 is only about £6k.

[Carrot Flower King]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Your name and address is in the public domain. People can look up your address on the Electoral Register, which is also available online. People can also subscribe to 191 and look up anybody's address. People can look up your birth and marriage certificates, and other personal details from the Public Records Office. The owner of your property can be found on the Land Registry by anybody. You can opt out of your details being visible on the Electoral Register and you can ask the Preferential Mailing lists to take your name and address off their 'marketing spam' lists. None of this breaks the DPA.

I would not be surprised if anyone can apply to DVLA through the correct means to identify a vehicle should you have good reason, such as a hit and miss or damage to your property. Insurers have a way of identifying the other driver.

It is nonsense to claim that it is a national security risk and a breach of law for this information to be public. It is probably not online but through special application because there is no centralised database to cope with idle internet surfing.

And absolutely none of that has anything to do with your claim about the DVLA. And no-one claimed it was a breach of any data protection regulations either.

I do know all that, as do many people, which is why I'm not on the publicly viewable version of the Electoral Register and have taken other steps to minimise my visiblity.

Send out for more squirrels.

[Andy_Ross]

Originally Posted by Vixen

His video was used by the worldwide press, including BBC, ITV, APF and Reuters. He confirmed it was his original and he has the copyright. Unlike the guy who claims to have the film from the front of the vehicle and the person who claims to have deciphered the number plate and identified the make and model. Learn to spot fake from authentic.

It has been confirmed that it was a diesel car. You can read it on the official fire service website.

[Andy_Ross]

Originally Posted by Vixen

They are just giving you bland platitudes. Within hours a fire fighter told a journalist it was probably a fuel line leak (just like the one in Liverpool). Learn to differentiate considered speculation from confirmed fact.

It is clear the brand is being protected for now or it would have been named.

It is only speculation it was a Range Rover. Some say it is a Tesla from its outline.

It has been confirmed that it was a diesel car by the fire service.

[Andy_Ross]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Here we have someone who believes in obviously fake news and has the temerity to claim they have 'drivel' detectors.

It has been confirmed to be a diesel car by the fire service.
It was confirmed weeks ago.

[Andy_Ross]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Your name and address is in the public domain. People can look up your address on the Electoral Register, which is also available online. People can also subscribe to 191 and look up anybody's address. People can look up your birth and marriage certificates, and other personal details from the Public Records Office. The owner of your property can be found on the Land Registry by anybody. You can opt out of your details being visible on the Electoral Register and you can ask the Preferential Mailing lists to take your name and address off their 'marketing spam' lists. None of this breaks the DPA.

I would not be surprised if anyone can apply to DVLA through the correct means to identify a vehicle should you have good reason, such as a hit and miss or damage to your property. Insurers have a way of identifying the other driver.

It is nonsense to claim that it is a national security risk and a breach of law for this information to be public. It is probably not online but through special application because there is no centralised database to cope with idle internet surfing.

My address is not on the electoral register. You can ask for it to be withheld

Nobody says it's a national security risk, it's to protect the individual concerned.

It would be a breach of law. Data protection is law.
I have to ensure I comply with data protection law regarding names and addresses of my customers. If I don't I will be prosecuted.

[Andy_Ross]

Originally Posted by Vixen

As I pointed out, this has nothing to do with 'national security'.

Here you can ring up the national population centre and ask for anybody's address. When I worked in insolvency practice we had no problem in finding people and discovering what assets they owned via Land Registry and it was all quite legal.

Nobody has claimed it is anything to do with national security.

It doesn't matter what you can do where you are. We are talking about the UK.

[GlennB]

Originally Posted by Vixen

As I pointed out, this has nothing to do with 'national security'.

Here you can ring up the national population centre and ask for anybody's address. When I worked in insolvency practice we had no problem in finding people and discovering what assets they owned via Land Registry and it was all quite legal.

Nobody has claimed a link to 'national security'. What a weird thing to say.