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Old 15th June 2019, 05:40 AM   #1
Darat
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Homophobic and transphobic hate crimes surge in England and Wales

Thread title is from this article:

Homophobic and transphobic hate crimes surge in England and Wales

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...land-and-wales

The article gives the sources and seems to be accurate in how they describe the issue.

I'm curious if anyone has any idea why? Is it merely that homosexuals are now willing to make complaints in much higher numbers these days compared to the past?

I'm wondering if it is part and parcel of the usual trends we have in times of decreased prosperity? (The almost 10 years of "austerity.") Which seems to always correlate with crime increasing and those outside the mainstream always seem to be handy targets for general unpleasantness during such times.

Or is it because younger homosexuals haven't grown up with "no PDA" as a defence and therefore there are more "visible" homosexuals to become targets?

Opinions, views etc?
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Old 15th June 2019, 05:46 AM   #2
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Sorry, I don't take that rag seriously.
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Old 15th June 2019, 05:54 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Sorry, I don't take that rag seriously.
What's incorrect in the analysis?
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Old 15th June 2019, 05:58 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Sorry, I don't take that rag seriously.
What are the “rags” you take seriously?
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Old 15th June 2019, 06:28 AM   #5
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The data in the graph is from Home Office statistics so unsure how what paper it is published in could alter the bare statistics.
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Old 15th June 2019, 07:07 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Thread title is from this article:

Homophobic and transphobic hate crimes surge in England and Wales

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...land-and-wales

The article gives the sources and seems to be accurate in how they describe the issue.

I'm curious if anyone has any idea why? Is it merely that homosexuals are now willing to make complaints in much higher numbers these days compared to the past?

I'm wondering if it is part and parcel of the usual trends we have in times of decreased prosperity? (The almost 10 years of "austerity.") Which seems to always correlate with crime increasing and those outside the mainstream always seem to be handy targets for general unpleasantness during such times.

Or is it because younger homosexuals haven't grown up with "no PDA" as a defence and therefore there are more "visible" homosexuals to become targets?

Opinions, views etc?
Possibly more reporting but I think the Trump/Brexit populism has energised bigots of all types, the nationalists, imperially deluded, homophobes, racists et cetera. The deplorable element of the Trumpian Triumvirate.


Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Sorry, I don't take that rag seriously.
So you'll continue with your policy of ignoring inconvenient facts, as usual?
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Old 15th June 2019, 07:16 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I'm curious if anyone has any idea why?
I think that the answer will have to come from the perpetrators. The questions of motive and why to escalate hate all the way to an actual crime are going to be best answered by the criminals themselves. Crime is risky and we wonder why people are willing to put themselves at risk of punishment for a crime that doesn't even pay money (such as a robbery would).
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Old 15th June 2019, 07:16 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
What's incorrect in the analysis?
Their "twisted agenda" of publicising facts doesn't suit his transphobic, and presumably other, prejudices.
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Old 15th June 2019, 07:31 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Possibly more reporting but I think the Trump/Brexit populism has energised bigots of all types, the nationalists, imperially deluded, homophobes, racists et cetera. The deplorable element of the Trumpian Triumvirate.
It's not a crime to be a bigot or to be homophobic. We want to know why these perpetrators decided to take the additional and very risky step from hate to criminality.

They place their personal freedom and well-being at risk because the punishment for crime is real. I don't know how the existence of Trump can explain the risk-taking because he will not stop the punishment of hate criminals in the UK.
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Old 15th June 2019, 07:36 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It's not a crime to be a bigot or to be homophobic. We want to know why these perpetrators decided to take the additional and very risky step from hate to criminality.



They place their personal freedom and well-being at risk because the punishment for crime is real. I don't know how the existence of Trump can explain the risk-taking because he will not stop the punishment of hate criminals in the UK.
"The Trump/Brexit populism"

and

"The existence of Trump"

are not the same thing.
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Old 15th June 2019, 09:50 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It's not a crime to be a bigot or to be homophobic. We want to know why these perpetrators decided to take the additional and very risky step from hate to criminality.



They place their personal freedom and well-being at risk because the punishment for crime is real. I don't know how the existence of Trump can explain the risk-taking because he will not stop the punishment of hate criminals in the UK.
Are the crimes on the rise? Or is the reporting on the rise? Or both?
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Old 15th June 2019, 10:16 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Thread title is from this article:

Homophobic and transphobic hate crimes surge in England and Wales

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...land-and-wales

The article gives the sources and seems to be accurate in how they describe the issue.

I'm curious if anyone has any idea why?
I can tell you why but the answer is “Islamophobic”
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Old 15th June 2019, 10:47 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
I can tell you why but the answer is “Islamophobic”
Evidence for this claim?
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Old 15th June 2019, 11:27 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Evidence for this claim?
I think they were indicating their reason would be labeled islamophobic?

ETA: Which, if true, kinda clues in to what the unstated reason might be.
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Old 15th June 2019, 12:30 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I'm curious if anyone has any idea why? Is it merely that homosexuals are now willing to make complaints in much higher numbers these days compared to the past?
I would lean more towards reporting increasing and police recording also becoming more accurate. Since the general trend across all hate crimes seems to be rising, I doubt LGBT has anything more specific than the general trend itself.

Would also help to know the percentage increase by specific crime breakdown so we could see what exactly is changing. Is it public order offences or physical violence?
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Old 15th June 2019, 01:40 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Possibly more reporting but I think the Trump/Brexit populism has energised bigots of all types, the nationalists, imperially deluded, homophobes, racists et cetera. The deplorable element of the Trumpian Triumvirate.
Antebellum upswing in incivility, product of the wealthy financing of anti-government, anti-social, and anti-science scapegoating which has always been around, but went mainstream in 1980 with Ronnie Raygun, and then volcanic in 2016 as part of the frothing racist whitelash following Obama. Now carefully crafted with individual targeting on social media, gerrymandering, Supreme Court stuffing, ballot stuffing, and open bribe taking.

Government of, for, and by the People should be, as GOP inspiration and heartthrob, Grover Norquist, says, "strangled in the bathtub." People vote for taxes, and that is highway robbery. Works as a... simple argument.

Ah, Libertarian freedom! The wondrous savagery of the open steppes, flint-knapping and daily warfare.
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Old 15th June 2019, 02:00 PM   #17
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Do we know the ethnic and cultural profile of those responsible for the increase in attacks?
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Old 15th June 2019, 02:11 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Opinions, views etc?
I was going to state that it's all Trump's fault, just as all racism since 2016 is his fault, but I got ninjad.

Less that 10 posts in, too:

Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Possibly more reporting but I think the Trump/Brexit populism has energised bigots of all types, the nationalists, imperially deluded, homophobes, racists et cetera. The deplorable element of the Trumpian Triumvirate.
It's becoming clear to me that Trump is the reason for all the world's ills.

There was no homophobia or racism before his election.

Jesus H Christ.

Is thinking banned these days?
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Old 15th June 2019, 02:51 PM   #19
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From the information given, I don't see an obvious explanation.
In such situations people tend to point toward their own preferred explanations.
In the Guardian article some point to "the rise of rightwing populism" but I see no evidence for this. Others on the right will blame immigration. This too is hard to establish unless the police keep track of and publish statistics on the offenders.
It's also possible that more crimes are being reported that would have gone unreported in the past.

Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Or is it because younger homosexuals haven't grown up with "no PDA" as a defence and therefore there are more "visible" homosexuals to become targets?
Sorry, but I don't know what "no PDA" means. I tried googling it, but I don't think you meant "Personal Digital Assistant"?
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Old 15th June 2019, 02:59 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post

Sorry, but I don't know what "no PDA" means. I tried googling it, but I don't think you meant "Personal Digital Assistant"?
"Public Display of Affection". Took me 10 seconds to google, but not guaranteed to be the right answer though I suspect it is. Would it have been so difficult?
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Old 15th June 2019, 03:04 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
From the information given, I don't see an obvious explanation.
In such situations people tend to point toward their own preferred explanations.
In the Guardian article some point to "the rise of rightwing populism" but I see no evidence for this. Others on the right will blame immigration. This too is hard to establish unless the police keep track of and publish statistics on the offenders.
It's also possible that more crimes are being reported that would have gone unreported in the past.



Sorry, but I don't know what "no PDA" means. I tried googling it, but I don't think you meant "Personal Digital Assistant"?
Sorry, PDA is public display of affection
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Old 15th June 2019, 04:28 PM   #22
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The usual way to establish whether an increase or decrease in recorded crimes reflects a change in the actual amount of crimes, or if it is caused by other factors, is by comparing the recorded crime rate with the responses of victimization surveys.

Other potential factors that might produce an increase is that the de jure or de facto definition of what constitutes "hate crime" could've been broadened, although that should be relatively easy to prove.
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Old 15th June 2019, 04:40 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
In the Guardian article some point to "the rise of rightwing populism" but I see no evidence for this.
I would have thought the popularity of Milo Yiannopoulos fairly well proved it isn't to blame anyway.
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Old 15th June 2019, 05:13 PM   #24
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Hate crimes against the disabled have also risen at a comparable rate. Would any of the aforementioned sources correlate with that as well? Populism or immigrants?
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Old 15th June 2019, 06:30 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
Hate crimes against the disabled have also risen at a comparable rate. Would any of the aforementioned sources correlate with that as well? Populism or immigrants?
Perhaps it is easier to report crimes than it was in the past.
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Old 15th June 2019, 09:43 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Do we know the ethnic and cultural profile of those responsible for the increase in attacks?
Why would that matter?

Is a homo/transphobic brown-skinned muslim worse than a homo/transphobic white European?

And if yes, why?
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Old 15th June 2019, 09:47 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Why would that matter?
Presumably the same reason it matters what the sexual orientation of the victims are?

If you are going to focus on one side, you might as well look at both
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Old 15th June 2019, 09:53 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Presumably the same reason it matters what the sexual orientation of the victims are?

If you are going to focus on one side, you might as well look at both
Why? Explain yourself.
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Old 15th June 2019, 10:01 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Why? Explain yourself.
Well if you are saying one group of individuals in a category is being targeted would it not be a good idea to just double check it isn't another group of individuals doing the targeting, to help shut it down?

If it is random people then all good (well bad in what they are apparently doing), but this seems like a fairly logical thing to me, personally
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Old 15th June 2019, 10:19 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Well if you are saying one group of individuals in a category is being targeted would it not be a good idea to just double check it isn't another group of individuals doing the targeting, to help shut it down?

If it is random people then all good (well bad in what they are apparently doing), but this seems like a fairly logical thing to me, personally
So do we know which group is targeting gay and trans people and creating this supposed surge? Or are we just making assumptions?
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Old 15th June 2019, 10:21 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
So do we know which group is targeting gay and trans people and creating this supposed surge? Or are we just making assumptions?


Not personally no.

Kind of thought that was the point of checking, just in case it is one
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Old 15th June 2019, 10:34 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post


Not personally no.

Kind of thought that was the point of checking, just in case it is one
They obviously belong to the group "homophobes/transphobes". Is that not enough?
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Old 15th June 2019, 10:44 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
They obviously belong to the group "homophobes/transphobes". Is that not enough?
Depends on whether you want to actually stop it happening.

And ruling out all similarities in the motives can be helpful in doing this, apart from just saying "homophobic"

Which with due respect, you seem less worried about doing than pointing out the group identity of the victims. (might be wrong. Just my impression of this exchange)
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Old 15th June 2019, 10:49 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Depends on whether you want to actually stop it happening.

And ruling out all similarities in the motives can be helpful in doing this, apart from just saying "homophobic"

Which with due respect, you seem less worried about doing than pointing out the group identity of the victims. (might be wrong. Just my impression of this exchange)
We know the group identity of the victims. They are gay and trans. So the group identity of their attackers are obviously homophobes and transphobes. Right?

I'm not saying that whatever wider social group the attackers belong to is irrelevant, I just want you to tell me why you personally think it matters.
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Old 15th June 2019, 10:53 PM   #35
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Well yes

Presumably. Unless it is some massively unlikely coincidence.....and is there any other link that we can look at? Websites, church groups....ra de dah?

Profiling can be your friend
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Old 15th June 2019, 10:57 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Well yes

Presumably. Unless it is some massively unlikely coincidence.....and is there any other link that we can look at? Websites, church groups....ra de dah?

Profiling can be your friend
I've edited my post. Read it again.
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Old 15th June 2019, 11:03 PM   #37
cullennz
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
I've edited my post. Read it again.
It matters because if there does by some freak stroke of luck happen to me a common link between the scum abusing these people, it makes it easier to both see it coming and stop it happening in the first place.

Put it this way

"We keep having these people shooting stop signs"

"They all seem to belong to this website called "Who can post a photo of best bullet holes in stop signs""

Everyone else - "We should look into the other members"

Lambchops - "Doesn't mean anything. They are just stopsignaphobic and that is all that matters"
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 15th June 2019, 11:17 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
It matters because if there does by some freak stroke of luck happen to me a common link between the scum abusing these people, it makes it easier to both see it coming and stop it happening in the first place.

Put it this way

"We keep having these people shooting stop signs"

"They all seem to belong to this website called "Who can post a photo of best bullet holes in stop signs""

Everyone else - "We should look into the other members"

Lambchops - "Doesn't mean anything. They are just stopsignaphobic and that is all that matters"
OK, so how do we stop homophobia and transphobia by assingning the homophobes and transphobes to a larger social group?
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Old 15th June 2019, 11:26 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
OK, so how do we stop homophobia and transphobia by assingning the homophobes and transphobes to a larger social group?
No idea

It is actually a relatively new thing in the grand scheme of things I think. Many societies were fairly cruisey with it

Banning bibles would help (joke).

Education and a lot of older people carking it will probably help (not a joke)

Sadly I don't think it is really possible in modern european society without it happening naturally.

It is pretty inspiring watching the younger lot not caring a jot who shags who.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 15th June 2019, 11:28 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
OK, so how do we stop homophobia and transphobia by assingning the homophobes and transphobes to a larger social group?
Mis read your post

It isn't assigning them to a larger group.

It is just checking whether the scum belong to a smaller common group
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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