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Old 9th May 2019, 11:34 AM   #2001
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
This does not fit observation. If universal acceleration was true, gravity would be the same all over. It is not.
I've noticed that Flat Earthers only tend to think though things enough to have a pat answer to give at conferences or put in a YouTube video. Thinking through the actual implications of their assertions in detail is not something I've seen them engage in.

Edit: It's been a couple of days since Gingervytes logged in. I'd love to hear about Flat Earth mythology from an actual believer. If Gingervytes is an actual Flat Earther instead of just pretending to be one they might be able to provide that feedback.
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Old 9th May 2019, 11:45 AM   #2002
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
I've noticed that Flat Earthers only tend to think though things enough to have a pat answer to give at conferences or put in a YouTube video. Thinking through the actual implications of their assertions in detail is not something I've seen them engage in.
And that's their problem.

... Well, one of their problems.

Hans
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Old 9th May 2019, 12:00 PM   #2003
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
And that's their problem.

... Well, one of their problems.

Hans
Just one in a vast ocean of problems. Makes a person wonder how they view all the other mundane things in their lives, and how they are functional enough to make it through a normal day.
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Old 9th May 2019, 04:20 PM   #2005
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There's a whole lot of contained pressure.
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Old 9th May 2019, 05:17 PM   #2006
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Odd, I was just at a meeting where an Australian was present. We left the meeting and went to get lunch. He tripped over some uneven pavement and I grabbed his hand and helped him up. He seemed rather real to me. I've been vacillating on taking a one year job in Papua New Guinea. He invited me to stay at his home in I believe it was Brisbane if I took the job and wanted to get away for the weekend. I kind of don't think he'd have done that if his home didn't exist.
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Old 9th May 2019, 05:18 PM   #2007
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
TIL flat earthers have an explanation for time zones
https://i.imgur.com/eyuUVdc.gif

If you prefer a video:
Flat Earth Proof 29 - Time Zones
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
I don't mean to nitpick, but that model doesn't account for long periods of constant daylight and darkness at or near the North Pole.
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Old 9th May 2019, 05:35 PM   #2008
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
There's a whole lot of contained pressure.
I think I hate you!
The conspiracy theorists, of course, will be all over the fact that they towed a diesel along for the ride.

Sorry, gang, for apparently having broken the thread by PM-ing Gingervytes the arithmetic he "couldn't find". He's probably still trying to find a way to say he didn't get it.
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Old 9th May 2019, 05:36 PM   #2009
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I don't mean to nitpick, but that model doesn't account for long periods of constant daylight and darkness at or near the North Pole.

It would, if it also included the sun sliding closer to the center then farther away on an annual cycle. The animation as it is depicts an equinox. (And, um, some other moving circular thing that definitely isn't the moon.)
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Old 9th May 2019, 06:30 PM   #2010
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Post it again. What lies?
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Old 9th May 2019, 06:39 PM   #2012
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Gingervytes,

If there is a patch of gas expanding in a vacuum and there is an object nearby, will the gas transfer any momentum to the object when it reaches it?

If not, why not?
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Old 9th May 2019, 06:52 PM   #2013
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
...You haven’t provided any actual evidence of rockets being able to work in space
That is a lie, Gingervytes. Actual evidence of rockets working in space have been given to you, e.g. spacecraft existing on other planets, videos of rockets working in space, telemetry of rockets working in space, astronauts arriving and leaving the ISS using rockets working in space, astronauts outside the ISS using rockets working in space.

1 May 2019 Gingervytes: How did the Curiosity rover get to Mars through the vacuum of space?
1 May 2019 Gingervytes: Explain how the course changes of the Rosetta spacecraft worked as predicted by rocket physics.
2 May 2019 Gingervytes: How do astronauts maneuver in EVA at the ISS using rockets if rockets do not work in space?
3 May 2019 Gingervytes: If rockets do not work in space: How were the orbits of the Galileo 5 & 6 satellites altered with rockets? How are orbit changes for other satellites done? How are orbit adjustments doen for the ISS, e.g. to avoid space junk?
6 May 2019 Gingervytes: What evidence would you accept to show that rockets work in a vacuum?

10 May 2019 Gingervytes: How did astronauts get to the Hubble telescope and repair it?
There were several Hubble Servicing Missions. We might have a paranoid delusion that Hubble was launched with faults and some way of fixing them without servicing missions. Add a paranoid delusion that Hubble was launched with concealed instrumsts that were somehow deployed to become the new ones added by service missions. Or a really paranoid delusion of Hubble not existing (Hubble data tended to be confirmed by later Earth based telescopes) !

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Old 9th May 2019, 07:04 PM   #2014
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
All of these are circumstances that arise from others telling you that these missions or programs exist. You havenít provided any actual evidence of rockets being able to work in space
So, Gingervytes, you freely admit that you are saying that thousands of people have lied to you? That the only thing you have not yet done is say that they are lying, to their face?

Shame on you.
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:30 PM   #2015
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I've finally caught up with this thread and wow. This is destined to be one of the classics.

The number of people who would need to be involved in this coverup is astronomical. Millions - probably billions. And every one of them would have to be complicit and keep their mouth shut about it. No whistleblowers, not careless offhand remarks to friends or family, no leaks. Do you know what the probability of that would be?

If this theory is true, the only people who aren't willingly in on the conspiracy are those few thousands of flat earthers. Everybody else has to be complicit. Astounding.
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:35 PM   #2016
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Pretty sure at least half the flat earthers have to be in on it too.
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:37 PM   #2017
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What about the maybe trillions of dollars spent building rockets and their launch facilities around the world. A massive accounting conspiracy to cover that up and no one leaked it over the last almost 60 years!
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:38 PM   #2018
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Wow!

I sure have not heard this particular bit of nonsense before.
I have. The problem with the claim is that they never follow through.

Sure, to claim that a flat earth is accelerating upward at 9.9 m/s/s it is easy to claim that this replicates gravity. However, this has consequences.

If the "disc" is so accelerating, then we gain 9.8 m/s of speed every second.

Thus the disc gains 9.8 x 60 = 588 m/s every minute. and 588 x 60 = 35280 ms/s every hour.

Then in a year, we gain 35280 x 24 x 365 = 309052800 m/s per year. In other words, from a standing start of 0 the disc would reach a speed of 309052800 m/s in one year. I see a problem brewing.

So how long has the earth been accelerating like this? Well let us be nuttily generous. What is the very lowest claim for the age of the Earth? That would be the Young Earth Creationist of 6 to 10 thousand years. Take the lowest of 6,000 years being generous again.

The discs current speed is thus 6,000 x 309052800 = 1854316800000 m/s.

1,854,316,800,000 m/s. Is our current speed given the disc is only 6,000 years old.

299,792,458 m/s. Is the speed of light.

Anyone see the problem? (beyond the rather obvious idiocy that the disc is motoring at 6819 times the speed of light right now as a minimum).

The next quibble is that one has arbitrarily selected 6,000 years as the age of the earth and that invalidates the numbers. Sure. Want an older Earth? That just makes things worse. Want a younger Earth? Well now you are in a world of hurt because you have to claim that everything is false and faked including the bible an every other "holy" book ever written. Or every civilisation that ever existed.

Well, it means that all of the planets must be accelerating in the same direction and rate as the disc.
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:44 PM   #2019
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
What about the maybe trillions of dollars spent building rockets and their launch facilities around the world. A massive accounting conspiracy to cover that up and no one leaked it over the last almost 60 years!
And don't forget about the cost of putting up all those airplanes, helicopters, balloons, and towers to simulate satellites visually and electronically on radio, TV, and GPS signals.
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:51 PM   #2020
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
All of these are circumstances that arise from others telling you that these missions or programs exist. You havenít provided any actual evidence of rockets being able to work in space

So what? Why should anyone care whether or not you think rockets work in space?
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Old 9th May 2019, 08:51 PM   #2021
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Anyone see the problem? (beyond the rather obvious idiocy that the disc is motoring at 6819 times the speed of light right now as a minimum).
No problem. If you can deny that the earth is round, you can deny the light speed limit too. And whatever other physical absurdities exist as well. That's all just science, which as every self-respecting flat earther knows is just a con. None of it is true. There's nothing to stop the flat earth accelerating to infinite speed, and that's probably just arbitrary as well. Go past it. Go faster than infinitely fast.

Nothing is a barrier when science is a lie.
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Old 9th May 2019, 08:56 PM   #2022
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
No problem. If you can deny that the earth is round, you can deny the light speed limit too. And whatever other physical absurdities exist as well. That's all just science, which as every self-respecting flat earther knows is just a con. None of it is true. There's nothing to stop the flat earth accelerating to infinite speed, and that's probably just arbitrary as well. Go past it. Go faster than infinitely fast.

Nothing is a barrier when science is a lie.
But what I like is that Newton's Third Law is a lie and Newton's Law of Gravity is a lie, but Bernoulli's flow rate equation and the pressure gradient force formula are just fine.
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Old 9th May 2019, 08:59 PM   #2023
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
But what I like is that Newton's Third Law is a lie and Newton's Law of Gravity is a lie, but Bernoulli's flow rate equation and the pressure gradient force formula are just fine.
Well, yeah, of course they're true. You only need to deny the science that disproves your idea.
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Old 9th May 2019, 09:55 PM   #2024
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A huge conspiracy involving everybody involved in astronomy, rockets, airline industry, communications, and so on. Probably also including everybody claiming to live in Australia. I wonder: who is paying for all that? Is it worth that much in order to "control" the unsuspecting populace?

And now we are at it: How do the Australian Flat-Earthers argue?
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Old 9th May 2019, 10:00 PM   #2025
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
And now we are at it: How do the Australian Flat-Earthers argue?
They always tend to take the other side...
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Old 9th May 2019, 10:02 PM   #2026
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Originally Posted by EvilBiker View Post
They always tend to take the other side...
Seriously. Just ask one if it's currently day or night. Contrary bastards.
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Old 9th May 2019, 10:05 PM   #2027
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Odd, I was just at a meeting where an Australian was present. We left the meeting and went to get lunch. He tripped over some uneven pavement and I grabbed his hand and helped him up. He seemed rather real to me. I've been vacillating on taking a one year job in Papua New Guinea. He invited me to stay at his home in I believe it was Brisbane if I took the job and wanted to get away for the weekend. I kind of don't think he'd have done that if his home didn't exist.
The claim certainly comes as a shock here. Earlier this year I thought I was in Australia. It was hot, and there were kangaroos and koalas and the people had odd accents. It certainly was a masterful bit of deception on the part of the endlessly imaginative conspirators. Oh wait, they also drove on the left side of the road. I bet they did it with mirrors.
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Old 9th May 2019, 10:08 PM   #2028
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
The claim certainly comes as a shock here. Earlier this year I thought I was in Australia. It was hot, and there were kangaroos and koalas and the people had odd accents. It certainly was a masterful bit of deception on the part of the endlessly imaginative conspirators. Oh wait, they also drove on the left side of the road. I bet they did it with mirrors.
Not this time. You were just in Jersey.
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Old 9th May 2019, 10:24 PM   #2029
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
How do the Australian Flat-Earthers argue?
I honestly don't know. I haven't gone out of my way to encounter any Flat Earthers here. But remember that flat-eartherism isn't a single dogma. They have many, many ways of justifying their beliefs, and many contradictory models. I doubt that Australian flat-earthers would accept the "Australia doesn't exist" part.
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Old 9th May 2019, 10:28 PM   #2030
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I honestly don't know. I haven't gone out of my way to encounter any Flat Earthers here. But remember that flat-eartherism isn't a single dogma. They have many, many ways of justifying their beliefs, and many contradictory models. I doubt that Australian flat-earthers would accept the "Australia doesn't exist" part.
I'll bet you don't accept that it's currently a Thursday night in the Spring either, do ya ****** ******?
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Old 9th May 2019, 10:32 PM   #2031
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I'll bet you don't accept that it's currently a Thursday night in the Spring either, do ya ****** ******?
Would you believe it's almost snowing here right now?

That's as close as Canberra ever gets, by the way. Almost snowing.
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Old 9th May 2019, 10:35 PM   #2032
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Would you believe it's almost snowing here right now?

That's as close as Canberra ever gets, by the way. Almost snowing.
Honestly, I would have never thought that, temperately. Though with you not existing and all, it shouldn't logically be surprising.
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Old 9th May 2019, 10:43 PM   #2033
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Would you believe it's almost snowing here right now?

That's as close as Canberra ever gets, by the way. Almost snowing.
I remember it snowed there once in 1970. I remember because when that happened all the kids ran out of the classroom in excitement. Having arrived from Scotland a couple of months before I couldn't understand the great fascination.
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Old 9th May 2019, 10:46 PM   #2034
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
And now we are at it: How do the Australian Flat-Earthers argue?
I have never met a flat earther here. My wife says that her science teacher at school was a flat-earther. I thought that maybe he was just pretending to be as a way of getting the kids to think about scientific evidence, but she insists that he really was a flat earther.

I think I would sue if they made me depend on a flat-earther for my education.
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Old 9th May 2019, 10:48 PM   #2035
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
I remember it snowed there once in 1970. I know because when that happened all the kids ran out of the classroom in excitement. Having arrived from Scotland a couple of months before I couldn't understand the great fascination.
We've had snow fall a few times since then, but never enough to actually accumulate on the ground.

We're actually at the beginning of our very own (South) Polar Vortex right now, but it's due to get better shortly, before it starts getting really cold in June and July.
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Old 10th May 2019, 12:06 AM   #2036
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
We've had snow fall a few times since then, but never enough to actually accumulate on the ground.

We're actually at the beginning of our very own (South) Polar Vortex right now, but it's due to get better shortly, before it starts getting really cold in June and July.
For a "northener" this sounds really really weird.

I want to travel to Australia and/or New Zealand but I've yet to decide if I want to experience x-mas in the summer or winter in July. Both things just blow my mind...
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Old 10th May 2019, 12:07 AM   #2037
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I honestly don't know. I haven't gone out of my way to encounter any Flat Earthers here. But remember that flat-eartherism isn't a single dogma. They have many, many ways of justifying their beliefs, and many contradictory models. I doubt that Australian flat-earthers would accept the "Australia doesn't exist" part.
Can't say about flat Earth, but we do believe the maps of the world are wrong. I remember in the eighties world maps printed upside-down, with Australia on the top, were a big hit in the gift-shops ;-).
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Old 10th May 2019, 12:15 AM   #2038
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Originally Posted by curious cat View Post
Can't say about flat Earth, but we do believe the maps of the world are wrong. I remember in the eighties world maps printed upside-down, with Australia on the top, were a big hit in the gift-shops ;-).
You can still get them.
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Old 10th May 2019, 12:18 AM   #2039
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
For a "northener" this sounds really really weird.

I want to travel to Australia and/or New Zealand but I've yet to decide if I want to experience x-mas in the summer or winter in July. Both things just blow my mind...
Come in January. Australian winter isn't that great, to be honest. If you're a skiier don't come to Australia to do it. We've only got the one skiing region and quite frankly by the standards of America or Europe it's not very good. On the other hand, the beaches in summer are glorious.
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Old 10th May 2019, 12:18 AM   #2040
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
No problem. If you can deny that the earth is round, you can deny the light speed limit too. And whatever other physical absurdities exist as well. That's all just science, which as every self-respecting flat earther knows is just a con. None of it is true. There's nothing to stop the flat earth accelerating to infinite speed, and that's probably just arbitrary as well. Go past it. Go faster than infinitely fast.

Nothing is a barrier when science is a lie.
Ah, but here we have the usual cognitive dissonance: Even simple science is misconceived and assumed to be lies, but one of the more complex and hard to understand sciences, Theory of Relativity, is held true, because it happens to be useful.

Earth (and anything else) can indeed accelerate indefinitely, because it will never quite reach the speed of light.

... So there ...

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