[Continuation] Brexit XII

Mojo · 4th February 2023, 06:13 AM

The Carlisle United Supporters Club and the Supporters Club of Carlisle United were both singing, but the United Supporters Club of Carlisle had lost his voice.

continued from http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=349324

Posted By:jimbob

P.J. Denyer · 4th February 2023, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

The Carlisle United Supporters Club and the Supporters Club of Carlisle United were both singing, but the United Supporters Club of Carlisle had lost his voice.

Splitter!

Darat · 4th February 2023, 10:31 AM

Oh dear - mind you we know that experts are useless anyway

https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...e-universities

Oxford and Cambridge universities, once given more than £130m a year in total by European research programmes, are now getting £1m annually between them

ETA: Of course no one could have foreseen this: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...versities-warn

Norman Alexander · 4th February 2023, 09:01 PM

Useless idiots like Alan Turing, etc.

P.J. Denyer · 5th February 2023, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Oh dear - mind you we know that experts are useless anyway

https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...e-universities

Oxford and Cambridge universities, once given more than £130m a year in total by European research programmes, are now getting £1m annually between them

ETA: Of course no one could have foreseen this: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...versities-warn

Well, we'd apparently "had enough of experts" so now we'll be producing considerably fewer.

Lukraak_Sisser · 5th February 2023, 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

Well, we'd apparently "had enough of experts" so now we'll be producing considerably fewer.

To channel our long lost champions of Brexit, this is all the EU's fault.

The British public voted for a Brexit where the UK would keep all the benefits of being in the EU without any counter obligations and now the europeans are sabotaging this brilliant policy out of spite.

jimbob · 6th February 2023, 08:00 AM

Oh noes the Daily Mail has provided a series of difficult questions for rejoiners

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnis...ner-party.html

Quote:

Last week, on the third anniversary of our departure from the EU, a survey found that some 57 per cent of Britons were now in favour of rejoining.

And little wonder! Those who we could once dismiss as ‘Remoaners’ have, in recent years, quietly morphed into something even more insidious: ‘Rejoiners.’ Every day, they tell us that Brexit has failed, defying the facts. And they think if they repeat this mantra often enough, people will believe it.

Why would anyone not be able to see what an unmitigated success Brexit is*?

The questions, less Professor Tombs's commentary are below.

1) If we rejoined the EU, how much would Britain pay into its budget per year?

2) If free movement into the UK from the EU were to be restored, what would annual net migration be?

3) What proportion of the global economy, and of British trade, will the EU represent in 20 years?

4) What would be the effect on future trade of abandoning our new, closer ties with the growing Pacific region?

5) What would be the economic cost of joining the eurozone?

6) Will the UK rejoin the Common Fisheries Policy?

7) As we now have a Free Trade Agreement with the EU, what precisely would be the advantage of rejoining the Single Market and Customs Union?

8) Would Brussels lawmakers have priority over Parliament, and would the European Court of Justice be superior to British courts?

9) Would Rejoiners agree to the EU being in overall charge of our foreign and security policy?

10) Would Rejoiners commit to a referendum to approve the terms negotiated for a new relationship with the EU?

*Just like this prophetic article from 2016

https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/

Guybrush Threepwood · 6th February 2023, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by jimbob

*Just like this prophetic article from 2016

https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/

Now, be fair, the government still has over two years to make that article a reality.

dudalb · 6th February 2023, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle

You think the US is not going to listen to its second most powerful political lobby, when millions of votes are potentially on the line. You really are wilfully blind, aren't you?

Irish lobby is not that powerful any longer. It's not like it used to be. Irish have assimliated too well into the US.

dudalb · 6th February 2023, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Lothian

I am a big supporter of the 6 counties in the North breaking away and uniting with their neighbour with whom they have far more in common. The distant powers in Westminster have not delivered for the people of Northumberland, Tyne & Wear, Durham, Cumbria, Lancashire and Yorkshire.

North ve South divide in England goes back a long way: It was the hardcore of Catholic resistence to the Tudors taking the Church Of England into the Protestent camp. THe Pilgrimage of Grace off name for a major rebellion....was the greatest threat Henry VIII faced in his regime, and his Daugher Liz has a major crisis with the Northern Rebellion.

Gulliver Foyle · 7th February 2023, 04:05 AM

Originally Posted by jimbob

Oh noes the Daily Mail has provided a series of difficult questions for rejoiners

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnis...ner-party.html

Why would anyone not be able to see what an unmitigated success Brexit is*?

The questions, less Professor Tombs's commentary are below.

1) If we rejoined the EU, how much would Britain pay into its budget per year?

2) If free movement into the UK from the EU were to be restored, what would annual net migration be?

3) What proportion of the global economy, and of British trade, will the EU represent in 20 years?

4) What would be the effect on future trade of abandoning our new, closer ties with the growing Pacific region?

5) What would be the economic cost of joining the eurozone?

6) Will the UK rejoin the Common Fisheries Policy?

7) As we now have a Free Trade Agreement with the EU, what precisely would be the advantage of rejoining the Single Market and Customs Union?

8) Would Brussels lawmakers have priority over Parliament, and would the European Court of Justice be superior to British courts?

9) Would Rejoiners agree to the EU being in overall charge of our foreign and security policy?

10) Would Rejoiners commit to a referendum to approve the terms negotiated for a new relationship with the EU?

*Just like this prophetic article from 2016

https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/

My answers:

1) Given what the tories are doing to the economy, the UK may even be a net beneficiary.

2) It was lower than it is now before brexit, because the UK needs a large pool of low paid, low skilled workers just to stand still.

3) The EUs proportion of world trade will be higher England's lower. That's what happens when you don't invest in your economy.

4) Nil. England's trade with the Pacific will never be more than a side gig. It's trade with the EU is what it needs.

5) Much smaller than the benefits of same.

6) Yeah. Stop asking stupid questions.

7) Ye don't have a free trade agreement. Ye have an agreement that, subject to the UK remaining in close regulatory alignment with the EU, allows for fewer and lesser trade barriers than say, Niue. Just because the UK lets in all and sundry without cheks, it doesn't then follow that that's a free trade agreement. It is, in fact, a potential WTO dispute.

8) In areas of pooled sovreignty, yes.

9) No, but given the shower running your country, the answer should be yes.

10) Would the brexiteers commit to enacting a constitution for the UK, which would allow for a proper footing to hold said referendum.

Gulliver Foyle · 7th February 2023, 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Irish lobby is not that powerful any longer. It's not like it used to be. Irish have assimliated too well into the US.

You think? The peace process was the one thing the republican party put the foot down kn Trump. Trust me, if the Irish lobby wasn't a big thing, our opliticians wouldn't be doing the St Patrick's Jamboree every March.

Carrot Flower King · 7th February 2023, 04:16 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

North ve South divide in England goes back a long way: It was the hardcore of Catholic resistence to the Tudors taking the Church Of England into the Protestent camp. THe Pilgrimage of Grace off name for a major rebellion....was the greatest threat Henry VIII faced in his regime, and his Daugher Liz has a major crisis with the Northern Rebellion.

We know.

And it goes back a lot further than that: Bill the Bastard has a lot to answer for; could take it back to the existence of the Saxon kingdoms...

jimbob · 7th February 2023, 10:36 AM

John Major states the obvious

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...droidApp_Other

Quote:

John Major has launched a scathing attack on Boris Johnson’s handling of Brexit, saying his administration agreed to the Northern Ireland protocol despite knowing it was unworkable.

“That must be the first agreement in history that was signed by people who decided it was useless in the first place,” Major told a Westminster committee on Tuesday

jimbob · 7th February 2023, 10:39 AM

Meanwhile Heseltine points out that it's not European regulations that are holding back businesses (he published 3000 whilst in Major's government and asked trade bodies if they were hampering trade. And that it's obvious why.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

jimbob · 7th February 2023, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by jimbob

Meanwhile Heseltine points out that it's not European regulations that are holding back businesses (he published 3000 whilst in Major's government and asked trade bodies if they were hampering trade. And that it's obvious why.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

From Hansard

Quote:

My Lords, I am in favour of free and open discussion. I do not want the noble Lord silenced in any way: the Floor is his.

Well, here we are, another vacuum in the Brexit debate.

The essence, of course, is that, for all the empty generalisations, all the promises and all that new world, there was nothing there. This Bill demonstrates beyond peradventure that they did not know what they were doing. Six years on, they did not know what they were doing. They have now actually created a giant question mark over a whole realm of regulations that are the custodian that separates us from the law of the jungle. They are what defines a civilised society. At a time of economic stress, when we need desperately to increase the levels of investment in our economy, what have they provided? A giant question mark for anyone seeking to know whether to spend a penny piece in the United Kingdom economy. I beg noble Lords not to let this legislation leave this place unscathed.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/...7-9D6CB70FD8F8

dudalb · 7th February 2023, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

We know.

And it goes back a lot further than that: Bill the Bastard has a lot to answer for; could take it back to the existence of the Saxon kingdoms...

"Oh he's dirty and full of fleas
He has his girls by two and threes
GOd Bless that Bastard King of England"

Though I actually think the north/south in England predates Willy the Conqurer; I think that the Northern Part of England became pretty much a VIking Kingdom The Danelaw for a couple of hundred years has alot to do with it.

Gulliver Foyle · 12th February 2023, 08:23 AM

Michelle Donelan to EU: Give into our ridiculous demands over the six counties protocol or we kill of UK science research in retaliation.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...uk-snub-brexit

Ok, I know she does not literally say this, but anybody who has sense will realise that this is the natural outcome of her threat.

Lukraak_Sisser · 12th February 2023, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle

Michelle Donelan to EU: Give into our ridiculous demands over the six counties protocol or we kill of UK science research in retaliation.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...uk-snub-brexit

Ok, I know she does not literally say this, but anybody who has sense will realise that this is the natural outcome of her threat.

How many times is the EU going to have to say "ok, go ahead" to the UK when it threatens to shoot itself in the foot if it doesn't get it's way without giving anything in return?

Mojo · 12th February 2023, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

The Carlisle United Supporters Club and the Supporters Club of Carlisle United were both singing, but the United Supporters Club of Carlisle had lost his voice.

I suppose I'd better point out that this was intended to be humorous, and that we took over 1,000 visiting supporters to Wimbledon yesterday.

Carrot Flower King · 12th February 2023, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser

How many times is the EU going to have to say "ok, go ahead" to the UK when it threatens to shoot itself in the foot if it doesn't get it's way without giving anything in return?

Have we not run out of feet yet? This is all going a bit Black Knight.

Mojo · 12th February 2023, 11:32 AM

Just a flesh wound.

SteveAitch · 12th February 2023, 01:12 PM

According to an article in today's Observer, it looks like at least some MPs, on both sides, recognise that Brexit may not be the socio-economic panacea they were promised...

Gulliver Foyle · 13th February 2023, 04:17 AM

Originally Posted by SteveAitch

According to an article in today's Observer, it looks like at least some MPs, on both sides, recognise that Brexit may not be the socio-economic panacea they were promised...

The biggest outcome so far is Frosty the No-Man moaning about a "remoaner plot".

jeremyp · 13th February 2023, 04:27 AM

Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle

Michelle Donelan to EU: Give into our ridiculous demands over the six counties protocol or we kill of UK science research in retaliation.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...uk-snub-brexit

Ok, I know she does not literally say this, but anybody who has sense will realise that this is the natural outcome of her threat.

You mischaracterise it slightly. The killing blow to UK science research has already been dealt. Michelle Donelan is threatening to not allow the EU to resuscitate it.

jeremyp · 13th February 2023, 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

Have we not run out of feet yet? This is all going a bit Black Knight.

I'm thinking more the Judean People's Front Suicide Squad.

Mongrel · 13th February 2023, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

Have we not run out of feet yet? This is all going a bit Black Knight.

You're presuming they're competent enough to hit...

P.J. Denyer · 14th February 2023, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle

The biggest outcome so far is Frosty the No-Man moaning about a "remoaner plot".

I don't ever remember an instance before where politicians, up to PM, were calling a large proportion of the voting public by an insulting name like since Brexit, and it's all one way sfaik I've never heard a remain politician use terms like Brextremist or Brexitard.

dudalb · 14th February 2023, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by jeremyp

I'm thinking more the Judean People's Front Suicide Squad.

You are not the only one who though of that....

The Don · 15th February 2023, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

I don't ever remember an instance before where politicians, up to PM, were calling a large proportion of the voting public by an insulting name like since Brexit, and it's all one way sfaik I've never heard a remain politician use terms like Brextremist or Brexitard.

When your grand strategy of "freeing the UK from the yoke of EU oppression" lies in tatters at your feet and the negative consequences that you waved away as Project Fear come to pass you have one of two options.

You can either accept that those critical voices were correct, that the Brexit you has envisaged is impossible and fundamentally change your approach or you can resort to name-calling.

The former requires a spine, fortitude, principles and the use of political capital, the latter is easy. It's hardly surprising which was chosen

Mojo · 28th February 2023, 08:48 AM

Quote:

In an interview with BBC Radio 4’s Today programme on Tuesday, Sunak made a similar point, saying Northern Ireland now had “this very special position where it has access to the UK market, has access to the EU market, which makes it an incredibly attractive place to invest for businesses”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ets-trade-deal

He actually said it twice. You would have thought that after the first time someone might have taken him aside and pointed out that this "prize" was what the whole UK had before Brexit.

The Don · 28th February 2023, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ets-trade-deal

He actually said it twice. You would have thought that after the first time someone might have taken him aside and pointed out that this "prize" was what the whole UK had before Brexit.

The media seem to be giving the Tories a free ride.

jimbob · 28th February 2023, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ets-trade-deal

He actually said it twice. You would have thought that after the first time someone might have taken him aside and pointed out that this "prize" was what the whole UK had before Brexit.

Yes.

It's pretty blatant.

Vixen · 4th March 2023, 10:54 AM

Interesting analysis of where people claiming a UK state pension have gone since Brexit.

Quote:

An extra 2,213 people claiming a UK pension have set down their roots in Poland since Britain officially left the EU on 31 Jan 2020, reveals our 2023 Pensioner Exodus Report.

Since you only need ten years of National Insurance contributions to get some UK state pension, the increase could be due to Polish nationals heading home after retiring from work in the UK. Or it could be that Poland has become a new hotspot for pensioners looking to enjoy their latter years.

Unsurprisingly, France remains a firm favourite among retirees with an extra 1,804 pensioners claiming a UK pension there since Brexit – only a 3% increase.

Meanwhile, Japan has seen a 24% increase, with an extra 1,310 people claiming a UK pension since Brexit Day. Thousands have also flocked to New Zealand (1,258) and Portugal (994) too.

A bit closer to home, the petite Isle of Man has seen a huge influx of UK pensioner expats, with numbers rocketing 567% since the Brexit vote on 23 June 2016.

https://investingreviews.co.uk/blog/...ioner-hotspots

Worth clicking to view the full tables.

Gord_in_Toronto · 6th March 2023, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Interesting analysis of where people claiming a UK state pension have gone since Brexit.

https://investingreviews.co.uk/blog/...ioner-hotspots

Worth clicking to view the full tables.

Rats leaving the sinking ship?

(Note that rats usually get a bad rap but are actually smart little critters who would have the sense to abandon a sinking ship.)

P.J. Denyer · 6th March 2023, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

Rats leaving the sinking ship?

(Note that rats usually get a bad rap but are actually smart little critters who would have the sense to abandon a sinking ship.)

Not to mention that rats haven't normally helped scupper the ship.

Wudang · 8th March 2023, 04:15 AM

Russ Jones knocks it out the park
https://twitter-thread.com/t/1633226043027775491

Originally Posted by RussInCheshire

Gonna start a festival. #Twatsonbury

I'll advertise how great it is. World-beating, in fact.

But there will be a 100 ft high wall around the 100 mile perimeter, and no gate.

No illegal entry. Or legal entry.

Then I'm gonna spend YEARS whining about the cost of security.��
The only way in will be to scale the wall, which is dangerous and illegal, and loads of people die, while giving all their money to the network of previously unheard-of "ladder gangs" that mysteriously sprung up when I built a massive wall.

Carrot Flower King · Yesterday, 07:31 AM

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2310821.html

Kate Hooey is, at best, tone deaf: calling the Six Counties a "EU colony" and comparing Stormont politicians to Vichy collaborators.

Well done there!

The Don · Yesterday, 10:20 AM

Rotten meat in UK shops.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65125811

If only there were standards and someone to enforce them.

P.J. Denyer · Yesterday, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

Rotten meat in UK shops.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65125811

If only there were standards and someone to enforce them.

Okay, the food is mouldy, but it's British Mould Dagnabbit!

4th February 2023, 08:09 AM	#2
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,014	Originally Posted by Mojo The Carlisle United Supporters Club and the Supporters Club of Carlisle United were both singing, but the United Supporters Club of Carlisle had lost his voice. Splitter!
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,014	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

4th February 2023, 10:31 AM	#3
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 108,202	Oh dear - mind you we know that experts are useless anyway https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...e-universities Oxford and Cambridge universities, once given more than £130m a year in total by European research programmes, are now getting £1m annually between them ETA: Of course no one could have foreseen this: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...versities-warn
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you Last edited by Darat; 4th February 2023 at 10:35 AM.

4th February 2023, 09:01 PM	#4
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,280	Useless idiots like Alan Turing, etc.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

5th February 2023, 04:38 AM	#5
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,014	Originally Posted by Darat Oh dear - mind you we know that experts are useless anyway https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...e-universities Oxford and Cambridge universities, once given more than £130m a year in total by European research programmes, are now getting £1m annually between them ETA: Of course no one could have foreseen this: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...versities-warn Well, we'd apparently "had enough of experts" so now we'll be producing considerably fewer.
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,014	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

6th February 2023, 08:00 AM	#7
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 29,266	Oh noes the Daily Mail has provided a series of difficult questions for rejoiners https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnis...ner-party.html Quote: Last week, on the third anniversary of our departure from the EU, a survey found that some 57 per cent of Britons were now in favour of rejoining. And little wonder! Those who we could once dismiss as ‘Remoaners’ have, in recent years, quietly morphed into something even more insidious: ‘Rejoiners.’ Every day, they tell us that Brexit has failed, defying the facts. And they think if they repeat this mantra often enough, people will believe it. Why would anyone not be able to see what an unmitigated success Brexit is? The questions, less Professor Tombs's commentary are below. 1) If we rejoined the EU, how much would Britain pay into its budget per year? 2) If free movement into the UK from the EU were to be restored, what would annual net migration be? 3) What proportion of the global economy, and of British trade, will the EU represent in 20 years? 4) What would be the effect on future trade of abandoning our new, closer ties with the growing Pacific region? 5) What would be the economic cost of joining the eurozone? 6) Will the UK rejoin the Common Fisheries Policy? 7) As we now have a Free Trade Agreement with the EU, what precisely would be the advantage of rejoining the Single Market and Customs Union? 8) Would Brussels lawmakers have priority over Parliament, and would the European Court of Justice be superior to British courts? 9) Would Rejoiners agree to the EU being in overall charge of our foreign and security policy? 10) Would Rejoiners commit to a referendum to approve the terms negotiated for a new relationship with the EU? Just like this prophetic article from 2016 https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

5th February 2023, 05:16 AM	#6
Lukraak_Sisser Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,890	Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer Well, we'd apparently "had enough of experts" so now we'll be producing considerably fewer. To channel our long lost champions of Brexit, this is all the EU's fault. The British public voted for a Brexit where the UK would keep all the benefits of being in the EU without any counter obligations and now the europeans are sabotaging this brilliant policy out of spite.

6th February 2023, 01:59 PM	#8
Guybrush Threepwood Trainee Pirate Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: An Uaimh Posts: 3,571	Originally Posted by jimbob *Just like this prophetic article from 2016 https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/ Now, be fair, the government still has over two years to make that article a reality.

6th February 2023, 04:37 PM	#9
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 57,860	Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle You think the US is not going to listen to its second most powerful political lobby, when millions of votes are potentially on the line. You really are wilfully blind, aren't you? Irish lobby is not that powerful any longer. It's not like it used to be. Irish have assimliated too well into the US.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. Last edited by dudalb; 6th February 2023 at 04:43 PM.

6th February 2023, 04:42 PM	#10
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 57,860	Originally Posted by Lothian I am a big supporter of the 6 counties in the North breaking away and uniting with their neighbour with whom they have far more in common. The distant powers in Westminster have not delivered for the people of Northumberland, Tyne & Wear, Durham, Cumbria, Lancashire and Yorkshire. North ve South divide in England goes back a long way: It was the hardcore of Catholic resistence to the Tudors taking the Church Of England into the Protestent camp. THe Pilgrimage of Grace off name for a major rebellion....was the greatest threat Henry VIII faced in his regime, and his Daugher Liz has a major crisis with the Northern Rebellion.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

7th February 2023, 04:05 AM	#11
Gulliver Foyle Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Cork baaaiii Posts: 1,320	Originally Posted by jimbob Oh noes the Daily Mail has provided a series of difficult questions for rejoiners https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnis...ner-party.html Why would anyone not be able to see what an unmitigated success Brexit is? The questions, less Professor Tombs's commentary are below. 1) If we rejoined the EU, how much would Britain pay into its budget per year? 2) If free movement into the UK from the EU were to be restored, what would annual net migration be? 3) What proportion of the global economy, and of British trade, will the EU represent in 20 years? 4) What would be the effect on future trade of abandoning our new, closer ties with the growing Pacific region? 5) What would be the economic cost of joining the eurozone? 6) Will the UK rejoin the Common Fisheries Policy? 7) As we now have a Free Trade Agreement with the EU, what precisely would be the advantage of rejoining the Single Market and Customs Union? 8) Would Brussels lawmakers have priority over Parliament, and would the European Court of Justice be superior to British courts? 9) Would Rejoiners agree to the EU being in overall charge of our foreign and security policy? 10) Would Rejoiners commit to a referendum to approve the terms negotiated for a new relationship with the EU? Just like this prophetic article from 2016 https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/ My answers: 1) Given what the tories are doing to the economy, the UK may even be a net beneficiary. 2) It was lower than it is now before brexit, because the UK needs a large pool of low paid, low skilled workers just to stand still. 3) The EUs proportion of world trade will be higher England's lower. That's what happens when you don't invest in your economy. 4) Nil. England's trade with the Pacific will never be more than a side gig. It's trade with the EU is what it needs. 5) Much smaller than the benefits of same. 6) Yeah. Stop asking stupid questions. 7) Ye don't have a free trade agreement. Ye have an agreement that, subject to the UK remaining in close regulatory alignment with the EU, allows for fewer and lesser trade barriers than say, Niue. Just because the UK lets in all and sundry without cheks, it doesn't then follow that that's a free trade agreement. It is, in fact, a potential WTO dispute. 8) In areas of pooled sovreignty, yes. 9) No, but given the shower running your country, the answer should be yes. 10) Would the brexiteers commit to enacting a constitution for the UK, which would allow for a proper footing to hold said referendum.

7th February 2023, 04:09 AM	#12
Gulliver Foyle Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Cork baaaiii Posts: 1,320	Originally Posted by dudalb Irish lobby is not that powerful any longer. It's not like it used to be. Irish have assimliated too well into the US. You think? The peace process was the one thing the republican party put the foot down kn Trump. Trust me, if the Irish lobby wasn't a big thing, our opliticians wouldn't be doing the St Patrick's Jamboree every March.

7th February 2023, 04:16 AM	#13
Carrot Flower King Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 3,618	Originally Posted by dudalb North ve South divide in England goes back a long way: It was the hardcore of Catholic resistence to the Tudors taking the Church Of England into the Protestent camp. THe Pilgrimage of Grace off name for a major rebellion....was the greatest threat Henry VIII faced in his regime, and his Daugher Liz has a major crisis with the Northern Rebellion. We know. And it goes back a lot further than that: Bill the Bastard has a lot to answer for; could take it back to the existence of the Saxon kingdoms...

7th February 2023, 10:36 AM	#14
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 29,266	John Major states the obvious https://www.theguardian.com/politics...droidApp_Other Quote: John Major has launched a scathing attack on Boris Johnson’s handling of Brexit, saying his administration agreed to the Northern Ireland protocol despite knowing it was unworkable. “That must be the first agreement in history that was signed by people who decided it was useless in the first place,” Major told a Westminster committee on Tuesday
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

7th February 2023, 04:37 PM	#17
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 57,860	Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King We know. And it goes back a lot further than that: Bill the Bastard has a lot to answer for; could take it back to the existence of the Saxon kingdoms... "Oh he's dirty and full of fleas He has his girls by two and threes GOd Bless that Bastard King of England" Though I actually think the north/south in England predates Willy the Conqurer; I think that the Northern Part of England became pretty much a VIking Kingdom The Danelaw for a couple of hundred years has alot to do with it.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

12th February 2023, 08:23 AM	#18
Gulliver Foyle Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Cork baaaiii Posts: 1,320	Michelle Donelan to EU: Give into our ridiculous demands over the six counties protocol or we kill of UK science research in retaliation. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...uk-snub-brexit Ok, I know she does not literally say this, but anybody who has sense will realise that this is the natural outcome of her threat.

12th February 2023, 10:05 AM	#19
Lukraak_Sisser Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,890	Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle Michelle Donelan to EU: Give into our ridiculous demands over the six counties protocol or we kill of UK science research in retaliation. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...uk-snub-brexit Ok, I know she does not literally say this, but anybody who has sense will realise that this is the natural outcome of her threat. How many times is the EU going to have to say "ok, go ahead" to the UK when it threatens to shoot itself in the foot if it doesn't get it's way without giving anything in return?

12th February 2023, 10:47 AM	#20
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 36,875	Originally Posted by Mojo The Carlisle United Supporters Club and the Supporters Club of Carlisle United were both singing, but the United Supporters Club of Carlisle had lost his voice. I suppose I'd better point out that this was intended to be humorous, and that we took over 1,000 visiting supporters to Wimbledon yesterday.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

12th February 2023, 10:59 AM	#21
Carrot Flower King Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 3,618	Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser How many times is the EU going to have to say "ok, go ahead" to the UK when it threatens to shoot itself in the foot if it doesn't get it's way without giving anything in return? Have we not run out of feet yet? This is all going a bit Black Knight.

12th February 2023, 11:32 AM	#22
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 36,875	Just a flesh wound.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

12th February 2023, 01:12 PM	#23
SteveAitch Muse Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: St Aines Posts: 756	According to an article in today's Observer, it looks like at least some MPs, on both sides, recognise that Brexit may not be the socio-economic panacea they were promised...
	__________________ If this board is too exciting for you, try my Flickr pages. Warning: may cause narcolepsy! Some people call me 'strange'. I prefer 'unconventional'. But I'm willing to compromise and accept 'eccentric'...

13th February 2023, 04:17 AM	#24
Gulliver Foyle Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Cork baaaiii Posts: 1,320	Originally Posted by SteveAitch According to an article in today's Observer, it looks like at least some MPs, on both sides, recognise that Brexit may not be the socio-economic panacea they were promised... The biggest outcome so far is Frosty the No-Man moaning about a "remoaner plot".
	Last edited by Gulliver Foyle; 13th February 2023 at 04:18 AM. Reason: spoiler tags removed

13th February 2023, 04:27 AM	#25
jeremyp Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 2,473	Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle Michelle Donelan to EU: Give into our ridiculous demands over the six counties protocol or we kill of UK science research in retaliation. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...uk-snub-brexit Ok, I know she does not literally say this, but anybody who has sense will realise that this is the natural outcome of her threat. You mischaracterise it slightly. The killing blow to UK science research has already been dealt. Michelle Donelan is threatening to not allow the EU to resuscitate it.

13th February 2023, 04:28 AM	#26
jeremyp Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 2,473	Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King Have we not run out of feet yet? This is all going a bit Black Knight. I'm thinking more the Judean People's Front Suicide Squad.

13th February 2023, 08:45 AM	#27
Mongrel Begging for Scraps Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: UK, suburbia. 20 minutes in the future Posts: 2,196	Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King Have we not run out of feet yet? This is all going a bit Black Knight. You're presuming they're competent enough to hit...
	__________________ “Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.” - Charles Darwin ...like so many contemporary philosophers he especially enjoyed giving helpful advice to people who were happier than he was. - Tom Lehrer

14th February 2023, 10:58 AM	#28
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,014	Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle The biggest outcome so far is Frosty the No-Man moaning about a "remoaner plot". I don't ever remember an instance before where politicians, up to PM, were calling a large proportion of the voting public by an insulting name like since Brexit, and it's all one way sfaik I've never heard a remain politician use terms like Brextremist or Brexitard.
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,014	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

14th February 2023, 04:10 PM	#29
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 57,860	Originally Posted by jeremyp I'm thinking more the Judean People's Front Suicide Squad. You are not the only one who though of that....
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

15th February 2023, 12:47 AM	#30
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 36,395	Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer I don't ever remember an instance before where politicians, up to PM, were calling a large proportion of the voting public by an insulting name like since Brexit, and it's all one way sfaik I've never heard a remain politician use terms like Brextremist or Brexitard. When your grand strategy of "freeing the UK from the yoke of EU oppression" lies in tatters at your feet and the negative consequences that you waved away as Project Fear come to pass you have one of two options. You can either accept that those critical voices were correct, that the Brexit you has envisaged is impossible and fundamentally change your approach or you can resort to name-calling. The former requires a spine, fortitude, principles and the use of political capital, the latter is easy. It's hardly surprising which was chosen

28th February 2023, 08:48 AM	#31
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 36,875	Quote: In an interview with BBC Radio 4’s Today programme on Tuesday, Sunak made a similar point, saying Northern Ireland now had “this very special position where it has access to the UK market, has access to the EU market, which makes it an incredibly attractive place to invest for businesses”. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ets-trade-deal He actually said it twice. You would have thought that after the first time someone might have taken him aside and pointed out that this "prize" was what the whole UK had before Brexit.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

28th February 2023, 08:56 AM	#32
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 36,395	Originally Posted by Mojo https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ets-trade-deal He actually said it twice. You would have thought that after the first time someone might have taken him aside and pointed out that this "prize" was what the whole UK had before Brexit. The media seem to be giving the Tories a free ride.

28th February 2023, 08:57 AM	#33
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 29,266	Originally Posted by Mojo https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ets-trade-deal He actually said it twice. You would have thought that after the first time someone might have taken him aside and pointed out that this "prize" was what the whole UK had before Brexit. Yes. It's pretty blatant.
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

4th March 2023, 10:54 AM	#34
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 32,214	Interesting analysis of where people claiming a UK state pension have gone since Brexit. Quote: An extra 2,213 people claiming a UK pension have set down their roots in Poland since Britain officially left the EU on 31 Jan 2020, reveals our 2023 Pensioner Exodus Report. Since you only need ten years of National Insurance contributions to get some UK state pension, the increase could be due to Polish nationals heading home after retiring from work in the UK. Or it could be that Poland has become a new hotspot for pensioners looking to enjoy their latter years. Unsurprisingly, France remains a firm favourite among retirees with an extra 1,804 pensioners claiming a UK pension there since Brexit – only a 3% increase. Meanwhile, Japan has seen a 24% increase, with an extra 1,310 people claiming a UK pension since Brexit Day. Thousands have also flocked to New Zealand (1,258) and Portugal (994) too. A bit closer to home, the petite Isle of Man has seen a huge influx of UK pensioner expats, with numbers rocketing 567% since the Brexit vote on 23 June 2016. https://investingreviews.co.uk/blog/...ioner-hotspots Worth clicking to view the full tables.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

6th March 2023, 11:24 AM	#35
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 23,528	Originally Posted by Vixen Interesting analysis of where people claiming a UK state pension have gone since Brexit. https://investingreviews.co.uk/blog/...ioner-hotspots Worth clicking to view the full tables. Rats leaving the sinking ship? (Note that rats usually get a bad rap but are actually smart little critters who would have the sense to abandon a sinking ship.)
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

6th March 2023, 12:45 PM	#36
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,014	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto Rats leaving the sinking ship? (Note that rats usually get a bad rap but are actually smart little critters who would have the sense to abandon a sinking ship.) Not to mention that rats haven't normally helped scupper the ship.
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,014	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

8th March 2023, 04:15 AM	#37
Wudang BOFH Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire Posts: 15,323	Russ Jones knocks it out the park https://twitter-thread.com/t/1633226043027775491 Originally Posted by RussInCheshire Gonna start a festival. #Twatsonbury I'll advertise how great it is. World-beating, in fact. But there will be a 100 ft high wall around the 100 mile perimeter, and no gate. No illegal entry. Or legal entry. Then I'm gonna spend YEARS whining about the cost of security.�� The only way in will be to scale the wall, which is dangerous and illegal, and loads of people die, while giving all their money to the network of previously unheard-of "ladder gangs" that mysteriously sprung up when I built a massive wall.
	__________________ "Your deepest pools, like your deepest politicians and philosophers, often turn out more shallow than expected." Walter Scott.

Yesterday, 07:31 AM	#38
Carrot Flower King Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 3,618	https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2310821.html Kate Hooey is, at best, tone deaf: calling the Six Counties a "EU colony" and comparing Stormont politicians to Vichy collaborators. Well done there!