New TWA Flight 800 film coming out - Page 7

DGM · 23rd June 2013, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

I'm missing a plausible explanation for how those microsecond glitches could have been produced. The official documents omit discussing the very fast "switching" that would have been required by the equipment.

On one channel. So, what do you think we missed?

Great thing about this forum. Everyone can see you dodge. Do you actually have a point?

DGM · 23rd June 2013, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

So, no official evidence of human remains from the TWA 800 disaster?

I never saw your great grandmothers corps. What are you hiding?

jargon buster · 23rd June 2013, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

So, no official evidence of human remains from the TWA 800 disaster?

Do your own research...its out there if you look.
Although I wouldn't bother as it doesn't fit your idea of what happened...what was that again?

Anders Lindman · 23rd June 2013, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by DGM

On one channel. So, what do you think we missed?

Even if there were gaps in all the channel recordings, and the same gaps, then that would still not have been possible with a real cockpit recording.

It's the speed by which those glitches happened that I wonder how it could be explained with airplane electronics in the 747. The audio was recorded on analogue tapes. So software bugs in digital audio processing and things like that can be ruled out I take it.

I suspect those gaps were put in there on purpose by the perpetrators for us to discover. As evidence of fakery. They WANT it to be exposed. That's my current take. I for one haven't missed that. Have you?

Anders Lindman · 23rd June 2013, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by jargon buster

Do your own research...

I did! The Wikipedia article has a reference to some obscure website for the list of supposed TWA 800 victims.

That's mightily suspicious. Unless it's just sloppy editing of the Wikipedia article which it could be, but then where IS the official source?

DGM · 23rd June 2013, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

Even if there were gaps in all the channel recordings....................

(There wasn't)This is were the rational person would stop. Why didn't you?

Axxman300 · 23rd June 2013, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

So, no official evidence of human remains from the TWA 800 disaster?

You are a troll. Nothing more.

Seek mental help, you obviously need it.

Done with this thread.

Anders Lindman · 23rd June 2013, 05:08 PM

Ok, not an official source, but here is an interesting description:

"In most cases identification was accomplished through fingerprinting by an FBI team temporarily assigned to the ME, or by forensic odontology. In rare cases, the ME utilized DNA or forensic anthropology as the primary means of identification. In most cases, identification was based on more than one method." -- http://www.100megspopup.com/ark/800AutpsySumries.html

How could they have had access to the victims' fingerprints?

Were they all criminals?

matt.tansy · 23rd June 2013, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

How could they have had access to the victims' fingerprints?

Were they all criminals?

No, but I'm sure most, if not all, of the American adults had a driver's license and most states require fingerprints to get a license. And almost everybody has had a dental x-ray.

How old are you again?

Anders Lindman · 23rd June 2013, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by matt.tansy

No, but I'm sure most, if not all, of the American adults had a driver's license and most states require fingerprints to get a license. And almost everybody has had a dental x-ray.

How old are you again?

Ok, but did most states require fingerprints for driver license in 1996?

Anders Lindman · 23rd June 2013, 05:50 PM

"Currently, there are four states—California, Colorado, Georgia, and Texas—that require finger or thumb prints as part of the drivers licensing process." -- http://www.cga.ct.gov/2001/rpt/2001-R-0858.htm (November 15, 2001)

Surely that's not most of the passengers? Passenger List: TWA Flight 800 -- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...800/list01.htm (Again not an official source, of course.)

matt.tansy · 23rd June 2013, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

"Currently, there are four states—California, Colorado, Georgia, and Texas—that require finger or thumb prints as part of the drivers licensing process." -- http://www.cga.ct.gov/2001/rpt/2001-R-0858.htm (November 15, 2001)

Hmmm. Good catch. I was going off memory for that info. But there are other ways fingerprints can be obtained. All military personnel are fingerprinted. Jobs requiring a security clearance require fingerprinting. Some employers require fingerprinting.

But there is still the dental records of the dead.

Does France require fingerprints to get a passport?

chris lz · 23rd June 2013, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Corsair 115

And the story told by the human remains continues to be ignored...

Why don't you fill us in.

pteridine · 23rd June 2013, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by LSSBB

The US Submarine Force had no SAMs in 1996. If they were to experiment with one, there are ranges for this, none anywhere near where the plane exploded. Total unfounded conjecture.

If you were a sub mariner, you couldn't really say what was on the boats with the VLT's in an open forum.

LSSBB · 23rd June 2013, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by pteridine

If you were a sub mariner, you couldn't really say what was on the boats with the VLT's in an open forum.

I can say what I just said, because there were no SAMs on submarines in 1996. It's not just having a launch tube. It's having fire control guidance for a guided missile.

Anders Lindman · 23rd June 2013, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by matt.tansy

But there is still the dental records of the dead.

Depends on what they mean by primary means. Let's break down the statement: "In most cases identification was accomplished through fingerprinting by an FBI team temporarily assigned to the ME, or by forensic odontology. In rare cases, the ME utilized DNA or forensic anthropology as the primary means of identification. In most cases, identification was based on more than one method."

In RARE cases DNA was analyzed. Ok, let's exclude DNA analysis (and forensic anthropology). In MOST cases the identification was based on MORE than one method. And I interpret that as both fingerprints and dental records were used to identify most victims. If only dental records were used then that would NOT be identification based on more than one method.

Anders Lindman · 23rd June 2013, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by matt.tansy

Does France require fingerprints to get a passport?

I don't know, but Alex Jones is correct about one thing: the U.S. is Orwellian. Citizens don't need to prove their citizenship when voting yet have to be fingerprinted to get a driver license. Straight out of 1984.

matt.tansy · 23rd June 2013, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by pteridine

If you were a sub mariner, you couldn't really say what was on the boats with the VLT's in an open forum.

We can not discuss what type or the quantity of weapons that was on any particular boat at any particular time but we can say there never was a US submarine modified to carry or launch surface to air missiles.

Fire control systems are a hodgepodge of consoles. Each weapon system required its own specially-built consoles. There never has been a generic all-purpose fire control system were you can upload new software and re-assign functions for new weapon systems. "You see that button? That button there used to launch a torpedo. Now it launches a SAM." No. It never worked like that.

When my first boat was fitted for firing harpoons the primary launch console was jammed into a space forward of fire control. My publication locker outboard of fire control was removed to make room for the backup launch console. The fitting out for harpoons required 3 months to complete.

Anders Lindman · 23rd June 2013, 09:41 PM

The captain on TWA 800 was allegedly Ralph G. Kevorkian. If that would be true, then wouldn't the official reports name the captain by name? As far as I have seen, the official reports only use the term 'captain' without identifying the captain by name.

matt.tansy · 23rd June 2013, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

The captain on TWA 800 was allegedly Ralph G. Kevorkian. If that would be true, then wouldn't the official reports name the captain by name? As far as I have seen, the official reports only use the term 'captain' without identifying the captain by name.

From which government organization? I've read a number of NTSB accident reports and none of them named the crew. It is probably standard procedure. What of it?

Anders Lindman · 23rd June 2013, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by matt.tansy

From which government organization? I've read a number of NTSB accident reports and none of them named the crew. It is probably standard procedure. What of it?

Ok, I did some searches and it seems that the captain is never named in the official documents such as from the NTSB. I take my comment back.

HotRodDeluxe · 23rd June 2013, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

I did! The Wikipedia article has a reference to some obscure website for the list of supposed TWA 800 victims.

That's mightily suspicious. Unless it's just sloppy editing of the Wikipedia article which it could be, but then where IS the official source?

You're just trolling. I don't know why I, or anyone else bother with you.

Anders Lindman · 24th June 2013, 12:04 AM

Admittedly, my new conspiracy theory is extreme. I can defend it by proposing what the purpose of blowing up an airliner empty of people would be. What was the motive? Is there a motive? Yes, there is a huge motive.

The idea goes like this:

The TWA 800 event was a warming up for the 9/11 attacks. And just as the much bigger event, the TWA 800 crash was devised to get massive control over the U.S. power structure. By forcing the government, media, academia etc to do a coverup, the whole legal power structure became compromised and manipulable. A shadow cabal can blackmail the whole government again and again as long as the coverup has to be upheld. If people in position of power don't get along with the coverup, the cabal can expose it themselves with catastrophic consequences for the whole society.

SezMe · 24th June 2013, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

I have done some research about that, such as finding a list of supposed victims. From an UNofficial website! That's suspicious because it was used as reference in a Wikipedia article. Is that the best reference they have?

An unofficial website: Hey, that's suspicious.
An official website: Hey, that can't be trusted.

Do you subscribe to Weekly World News?

SezMe · 24th June 2013, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

Imagine four journalists recording what Barack Obama is saying in a press conference. Then further imagine that when the recordings are examined, one of the journalists has two microsecond gaps in his or her recording while the other journalists have recordings without such gaps. What caused those gaps?

Bad memory chip. Weak mic link. He put his hand over the mic. He shoved it up his bum for two microseconds. Since you've demonstrated the incredible capability to make things up, coming up with explanations should not be too hard for you.

SezMe · 24th June 2013, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

How could they have had access to the victims' fingerprints?

Were they all criminals?

When the missile hit the plane, everybody threw their hands up in disgust thus leaving everyone's fingerprints on the cabin ceiling.

Naw, I just kidding. They recovered every plastic cup that the passengers used so had a full set of prints.

Naw, just kidding. The head stewardess had an enormous set of bazooms so everyone copped a feel while loading thus the fingerprints were easy to recover.

Next question.

Anders Lindman · 24th June 2013, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by SezMe

Bad memory chip. Weak mic link. He put his hand over the mic.

I don't think there was digital processing of the audio in the black boxes. They used analogue tapes. And putting a hand over the mic or something like that takes thousands of microseconds at least, not 2 microseconds. Weak mic cable, that's perhaps possible, and I have been thinking about that, but that's not something the official reports have mentioned.

Anders Lindman · 24th June 2013, 02:01 AM

Why the need to have the plane empty of people? Why not just blow up an ordinary airliner full with passengers and crew members? One reason is if the shadow cabal are not entirely like evil monsters and actually want to spare the lives of innocent people. A more sinister and powerful purpose however is that if it was an ordinary airliner with people in it, then not much of a coverup would be needed. On the other hand, if there were no actual victims, and news about it being an ordinary passenger flight had already gone out via the media, then it was too late to admit that the plane was empty of people! Think about it, what would the government say? Would the President admit that there must be some powerful shadow cabal operating in the U.S. capable of staging something as colossal as the TWA 800 crash? No way. Because that would undermine the whole public power structure. It was much easier to just cover up the part about the victims by creating fake victims and their families. And once that first coverup was done: checkmate! The cabal could then start to blackmail the government etc like crazy. At first only those people who were in on the coverup, which was many but not that many. That would come to change after the 9/11 attacks, with millions of people in positions of power and in other key positions being forced to go along with a coverup.

HotRodDeluxe · 24th June 2013, 02:57 AM

Please stop.

LSSBB · 24th June 2013, 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by matt.tansy

We can not discuss what type or the quantity of weapons that was on any particular boat at any particular time but we can say there never was a US submarine modified to carry or launch surface to air missiles.

Fire control systems are a hodgepodge of consoles. Each weapon system required its own specially-built consoles. There never has been a generic all-purpose fire control system were you can upload new software and re-assign functions for new weapon systems. "You see that button? That button there used to launch a torpedo. Now it launches a SAM." No. It never worked like that.

When my first boat was fitted for firing harpoons the primary launch console was jammed into a space forward of fire control. My publication locker outboard of fire control was removed to make room for the backup launch console. The fitting out for harpoons required 3 months to complete.

Also there were not the kind of Fire Control radars needed. There would need to be either 55B fire control radars or Aegis. Both would have taken significant space outside the sub and plenty of power.

jargon buster · 24th June 2013, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

Why the need to have the plane empty of people? Why not just blow up an ordinary airliner full with passengers and crew members? One reason is if the shadow cabal are not entirely like evil monsters and actually want to spare the lives of innocent people. A more sinister and powerful purpose however is that if it was an ordinary airliner with people in it, then not much of a coverup would be needed. On the other hand, if there were no actual victims, and news about it being an ordinary passenger flight had already gone out via the media, then it was too late to admit that the plane was empty of people! Think about it, what would the government say? Would the President admit that there must be some powerful shadow cabal operating in the U.S. capable of staging something as colossal as the TWA 800 crash? No way. Because that would undermine the whole public power structure. It was much easier to just cover up the part about the victims by creating fake victims and their families. And once that first coverup was done: checkmate! The cabal could then start to blackmail the government etc like crazy. At first only those people who were in on the coverup, which was many but not that many. That would come to change after the 9/11 attacks, with millions of people in positions of power and in other key positions being forced to go along with a coverup.

How?

Anders Lindman · 24th June 2013, 05:13 AM

Originally Posted by jargon buster

How?

The cabal can make a threat to a person in position of power: "You do as we tell you or we will expose your coverup!"

And even if the person in power himself or herself doesn't give a crap about society collapsing because of being able to escape to a luxury bunker in a tax haven, there are other people in positions of power who have interests that they need to protect. So the person being threatened can't just act in isolation without bringing down consequences from all around society on him- or herself.

So a threat like that is effective because society is an interconnected whole power structure.

aggle-rithm · 24th June 2013, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

The cabal can make a threat to a person in position of power: "You do as we tell you or we will expose your coverup!"

And even if the person in power himself or herself doesn't give a crap about society collapsing because of being able to escape to a luxury bunker in a tax haven, there are other people in positions of power who have interests that they need to protect. So the person being threatened can't just act in isolation without bringing down consequences from all around society on him- or herself.

So a threat like that is effective because society is an interconnected whole power structure.

A threat from an imaginary cabal to expose the imaginary coverup of an imaginary crime is effective?

I suppose so, as long as the person in position of power is imaginary as well.

That's quite a circus you've got going on in your head, there.

aggle-rithm · 24th June 2013, 05:23 AM

Originally Posted by jargon buster

How?

The tales told by conspiracy theorists would be much more entertaining if they didn't have so many plot holes.

Anders Lindman · 24th June 2013, 05:24 AM

Originally Posted by aggle-rithm

A threat from an imaginary cabal to expose the imaginary coverup of an imaginary crime is effective?

I suppose so, as long as the person in position of power is imaginary as well.

That's quite a circus you've got going on in your head, there.

What, if, it's the victims of the TWA 800 disaster that are imaginary? Just saying.

jargon buster · 24th June 2013, 05:35 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

The cabal can make a threat to a person in position of power: "You do as we tell you or we will expose your coverup!"
And even if the person in power himself or herself doesn't give a crap about society collapsing because of being able to escape to a luxury bunker in a tax haven, there are other people in positions of power who have interests that they need to protect. So the person being threatened can't just act in isolation without bringing down consequences from all around society on him- or herself.

So a threat like that is effective because society is an interconnected whole power structure.

I knew you hadnt thought it through Anders.

So, please explain how a secret shadow cabal could bribe the president or anyone else for that matter without revealling their identities?
Surely the secret cabal that has remained secret for centuries wouldnt just tell everyone who they were over a plane crash???

Come on Anders, pull yourself together.

I know, maybe the nephilim would stop the secret cabal before they gave themselves away, or would it be the otherway around?

Anders Lindman · 24th June 2013, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by jargon buster

So, please explain how a secret shadow cabal could bribe the president or anyone else for that matter without revealling their identities?

How do you know that the Secret Service is NOT filled with cabal members? Remember, they are holding the guns, even the guns that can be pointed at the President.

Control the controllers.

tsig · 24th June 2013, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by matt.tansy

No, but I'm sure most, if not all, of the American adults had a driver's license and most states require fingerprints to get a license. And almost everybody has had a dental x-ray.

How old are you again?

In human years or troll years.

aggle-rithm · 24th June 2013, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

What, if, it's the victims of the TWA 800 disaster that are imaginary? Just saying.

There is objective evidence that they are not. There is no objective evidence that your cabal and your conspiracy are not imaginary.

Dcdrac · 24th June 2013, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

How do you know that the Secret Service is NOT filled with cabal members? Remember, they are holding the guns, even the guns that can be pointed at the President.

Control the controllers.

How do you know that they are where is your evidence and proof??

23rd June 2013, 03:30 PM	#241
DGM Skeptic not Atheist Join Date: May 2007 Location: West of Northshore MA Posts: 24,738	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman I'm missing a plausible explanation for how those microsecond glitches could have been produced. The official documents omit discussing the very fast "switching" that would have been required by the equipment. On one channel. So, what do you think we missed? Great thing about this forum. Everyone can see you dodge. Do you actually have a point?
	__________________ "Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41

23rd June 2013, 03:33 PM	#242
DGM Skeptic not Atheist Join Date: May 2007 Location: West of Northshore MA Posts: 24,738	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman So, no official evidence of human remains from the TWA 800 disaster? I never saw your great grandmothers corps. What are you hiding?
	__________________ "Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41

23rd June 2013, 03:34 PM	#243
jargon buster Banned Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 4,773	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman So, no official evidence of human remains from the TWA 800 disaster? Do your own research...its out there if you look. Although I wouldn't bother as it doesn't fit your idea of what happened...what was that again?
jargon buster Banned Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 4,773

23rd June 2013, 03:50 PM	#246
DGM Skeptic not Atheist Join Date: May 2007 Location: West of Northshore MA Posts: 24,738	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman Even if there were gaps in all the channel recordings.................... (There wasn't)This is were the rational person would stop. Why didn't you?
	__________________ "Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41

23rd June 2013, 05:37 PM	#249
matt.tansy Muse Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 991	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman How could they have had access to the victims' fingerprints? Were they all criminals? No, but I'm sure most, if not all, of the American adults had a driver's license and most states require fingerprints to get a license. And almost everybody has had a dental x-ray. How old are you again?
matt.tansy Muse Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 991	__________________ Enough with your Apollo is true by virtue of an appeal to reason... - Patrick1000 probably my bad for trying to back engineer the lunacy -jaydeehess

23rd June 2013, 03:44 PM	#244
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Originally Posted by DGM On one channel. So, what do you think we missed? Even if there were gaps in all the channel recordings, and the same gaps, then that would still not have been possible with a real cockpit recording. It's the speed by which those glitches happened that I wonder how it could be explained with airplane electronics in the 747. The audio was recorded on analogue tapes. So software bugs in digital audio processing and things like that can be ruled out I take it. I suspect those gaps were put in there on purpose by the perpetrators for us to discover. As evidence of fakery. They WANT it to be exposed. That's my current take. I for one haven't missed that. Have you?

23rd June 2013, 03:46 PM	#245
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Originally Posted by jargon buster Do your own research... I did! The Wikipedia article has a reference to some obscure website for the list of supposed TWA 800 victims. That's mightily suspicious. Unless it's just sloppy editing of the Wikipedia article which it could be, but then where IS the official source?

23rd June 2013, 04:05 PM	#247
Axxman300 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Central California Coast Posts: 6,556	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman So, no official evidence of human remains from the TWA 800 disaster? You are a troll. Nothing more. Seek mental help, you obviously need it. Done with this thread.

23rd June 2013, 05:08 PM	#248
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Ok, not an official source, but here is an interesting description: "In most cases identification was accomplished through fingerprinting by an FBI team temporarily assigned to the ME, or by forensic odontology. In rare cases, the ME utilized DNA or forensic anthropology as the primary means of identification. In most cases, identification was based on more than one method." -- http://www.100megspopup.com/ark/800AutpsySumries.html How could they have had access to the victims' fingerprints? Were they all criminals?

23rd June 2013, 05:41 PM	#250
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Originally Posted by matt.tansy No, but I'm sure most, if not all, of the American adults had a driver's license and most states require fingerprints to get a license. And almost everybody has had a dental x-ray. How old are you again? Ok, but did most states require fingerprints for driver license in 1996?

23rd June 2013, 05:50 PM	#251
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	"Currently, there are four states—California, Colorado, Georgia, and Texas—that require finger or thumb prints as part of the drivers licensing process." -- http://www.cga.ct.gov/2001/rpt/2001-R-0858.htm (November 15, 2001) Surely that's not most of the passengers? Passenger List: TWA Flight 800 -- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...800/list01.htm (Again not an official source, of course.)

23rd June 2013, 06:09 PM	#252
matt.tansy Muse Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 991	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman "Currently, there are four states—California, Colorado, Georgia, and Texas—that require finger or thumb prints as part of the drivers licensing process." -- http://www.cga.ct.gov/2001/rpt/2001-R-0858.htm (November 15, 2001) Hmmm. Good catch. I was going off memory for that info. But there are other ways fingerprints can be obtained. All military personnel are fingerprinted. Jobs requiring a security clearance require fingerprinting. Some employers require fingerprinting. But there is still the dental records of the dead. Does France require fingerprints to get a passport?
matt.tansy Muse Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 991	__________________ Enough with your Apollo is true by virtue of an appeal to reason... - Patrick1000 probably my bad for trying to back engineer the lunacy -jaydeehess

23rd June 2013, 06:39 PM	#253
chris lz Thinker Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 182	Originally Posted by Corsair 115 And the story told by the human remains continues to be ignored... Why don't you fill us in.
chris lz Thinker Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 182

23rd June 2013, 07:47 PM	#254
pteridine Thinker Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 248	Originally Posted by LSSBB The US Submarine Force had no SAMs in 1996. If they were to experiment with one, there are ranges for this, none anywhere near where the plane exploded. Total unfounded conjecture. If you were a sub mariner, you couldn't really say what was on the boats with the VLT's in an open forum.
pteridine Thinker Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 248

23rd June 2013, 08:27 PM	#255
LSSBB Devilish Dictionarian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery Posts: 20,059	Originally Posted by pteridine If you were a sub mariner, you couldn't really say what was on the boats with the VLT's in an open forum. I can say what I just said, because there were no SAMs on submarines in 1996. It's not just having a launch tube. It's having fire control guidance for a guided missile.
	__________________ "You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles

23rd June 2013, 08:32 PM	#256
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Originally Posted by matt.tansy But there is still the dental records of the dead. Depends on what they mean by primary means. Let's break down the statement: "In most cases identification was accomplished through fingerprinting by an FBI team temporarily assigned to the ME, or by forensic odontology. In rare cases, the ME utilized DNA or forensic anthropology as the primary means of identification. In most cases, identification was based on more than one method." In RARE cases DNA was analyzed. Ok, let's exclude DNA analysis (and forensic anthropology). In MOST cases the identification was based on MORE than one method. And I interpret that as both fingerprints and dental records were used to identify most victims. If only dental records were used then that would NOT be identification based on more than one method.

23rd June 2013, 09:08 PM	#257
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Originally Posted by matt.tansy Does France require fingerprints to get a passport? I don't know, but Alex Jones is correct about one thing: the U.S. is Orwellian. Citizens don't need to prove their citizenship when voting yet have to be fingerprinted to get a driver license. Straight out of 1984.

23rd June 2013, 09:10 PM	#258
matt.tansy Muse Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 991	Originally Posted by pteridine If you were a sub mariner, you couldn't really say what was on the boats with the VLT's in an open forum. We can not discuss what type or the quantity of weapons that was on any particular boat at any particular time but we can say there never was a US submarine modified to carry or launch surface to air missiles. Fire control systems are a hodgepodge of consoles. Each weapon system required its own specially-built consoles. There never has been a generic all-purpose fire control system were you can upload new software and re-assign functions for new weapon systems. "You see that button? That button there used to launch a torpedo. Now it launches a SAM." No. It never worked like that. When my first boat was fitted for firing harpoons the primary launch console was jammed into a space forward of fire control. My publication locker outboard of fire control was removed to make room for the backup launch console. The fitting out for harpoons required 3 months to complete.
matt.tansy Muse Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 991	__________________ Enough with your Apollo is true by virtue of an appeal to reason... - Patrick1000 probably my bad for trying to back engineer the lunacy -jaydeehess

23rd June 2013, 09:41 PM	#259
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	The captain on TWA 800 was allegedly Ralph G. Kevorkian. If that would be true, then wouldn't the official reports name the captain by name? As far as I have seen, the official reports only use the term 'captain' without identifying the captain by name.

23rd June 2013, 09:55 PM	#260
matt.tansy Muse Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 991	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman The captain on TWA 800 was allegedly Ralph G. Kevorkian. If that would be true, then wouldn't the official reports name the captain by name? As far as I have seen, the official reports only use the term 'captain' without identifying the captain by name. From which government organization? I've read a number of NTSB accident reports and none of them named the crew. It is probably standard procedure. What of it?
matt.tansy Muse Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 991	__________________ Enough with your Apollo is true by virtue of an appeal to reason... - Patrick1000 probably my bad for trying to back engineer the lunacy -jaydeehess

23rd June 2013, 10:13 PM	#261
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Originally Posted by matt.tansy From which government organization? I've read a number of NTSB accident reports and none of them named the crew. It is probably standard procedure. What of it? Ok, I did some searches and it seems that the captain is never named in the official documents such as from the NTSB. I take my comment back.

23rd June 2013, 11:20 PM	#262
HotRodDeluxe Muse Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 692	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman I did! The Wikipedia article has a reference to some obscure website for the list of supposed TWA 800 victims. That's mightily suspicious. Unless it's just sloppy editing of the Wikipedia article which it could be, but then where IS the official source? You're just trolling. I don't know why I, or anyone else bother with you.
HotRodDeluxe Muse Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 692

24th June 2013, 12:04 AM	#263
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Admittedly, my new conspiracy theory is extreme. I can defend it by proposing what the purpose of blowing up an airliner empty of people would be. What was the motive? Is there a motive? Yes, there is a huge motive. The idea goes like this: The TWA 800 event was a warming up for the 9/11 attacks. And just as the much bigger event, the TWA 800 crash was devised to get massive control over the U.S. power structure. By forcing the government, media, academia etc to do a coverup, the whole legal power structure became compromised and manipulable. A shadow cabal can blackmail the whole government again and again as long as the coverup has to be upheld. If people in position of power don't get along with the coverup, the cabal can expose it themselves with catastrophic consequences for the whole society.

24th June 2013, 12:24 AM	#264
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 25,183	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman I have done some research about that, such as finding a list of supposed victims. From an UNofficial website! That's suspicious because it was used as reference in a Wikipedia article. Is that the best reference they have? An unofficial website: Hey, that's suspicious. An official website: Hey, that can't be trusted. Do you subscribe to Weekly World News?

24th June 2013, 12:27 AM	#265
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 25,183	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman Imagine four journalists recording what Barack Obama is saying in a press conference. Then further imagine that when the recordings are examined, one of the journalists has two microsecond gaps in his or her recording while the other journalists have recordings without such gaps. What caused those gaps? Bad memory chip. Weak mic link. He put his hand over the mic. He shoved it up his bum for two microseconds. Since you've demonstrated the incredible capability to make things up, coming up with explanations should not be too hard for you.

24th June 2013, 12:34 AM	#266
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 25,183	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman How could they have had access to the victims' fingerprints? Were they all criminals? When the missile hit the plane, everybody threw their hands up in disgust thus leaving everyone's fingerprints on the cabin ceiling. Naw, I just kidding. They recovered every plastic cup that the passengers used so had a full set of prints. Naw, just kidding. The head stewardess had an enormous set of bazooms so everyone copped a feel while loading thus the fingerprints were easy to recover. Next question.

24th June 2013, 12:55 AM	#267
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Originally Posted by SezMe Bad memory chip. Weak mic link. He put his hand over the mic. I don't think there was digital processing of the audio in the black boxes. They used analogue tapes. And putting a hand over the mic or something like that takes thousands of microseconds at least, not 2 microseconds. Weak mic cable, that's perhaps possible, and I have been thinking about that, but that's not something the official reports have mentioned.

24th June 2013, 02:01 AM	#268
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Why the need to have the plane empty of people? Why not just blow up an ordinary airliner full with passengers and crew members? One reason is if the shadow cabal are not entirely like evil monsters and actually want to spare the lives of innocent people. A more sinister and powerful purpose however is that if it was an ordinary airliner with people in it, then not much of a coverup would be needed. On the other hand, if there were no actual victims, and news about it being an ordinary passenger flight had already gone out via the media, then it was too late to admit that the plane was empty of people! Think about it, what would the government say? Would the President admit that there must be some powerful shadow cabal operating in the U.S. capable of staging something as colossal as the TWA 800 crash? No way. Because that would undermine the whole public power structure. It was much easier to just cover up the part about the victims by creating fake victims and their families. And once that first coverup was done: checkmate! The cabal could then start to blackmail the government etc like crazy. At first only those people who were in on the coverup, which was many but not that many. That would come to change after the 9/11 attacks, with millions of people in positions of power and in other key positions being forced to go along with a coverup.

24th June 2013, 02:57 AM	#269
HotRodDeluxe Muse Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 692	Please stop.
HotRodDeluxe Muse Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 692

24th June 2013, 03:52 AM	#270
LSSBB Devilish Dictionarian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery Posts: 20,059	Originally Posted by matt.tansy We can not discuss what type or the quantity of weapons that was on any particular boat at any particular time but we can say there never was a US submarine modified to carry or launch surface to air missiles. Fire control systems are a hodgepodge of consoles. Each weapon system required its own specially-built consoles. There never has been a generic all-purpose fire control system were you can upload new software and re-assign functions for new weapon systems. "You see that button? That button there used to launch a torpedo. Now it launches a SAM." No. It never worked like that. When my first boat was fitted for firing harpoons the primary launch console was jammed into a space forward of fire control. My publication locker outboard of fire control was removed to make room for the backup launch console. The fitting out for harpoons required 3 months to complete. Also there were not the kind of Fire Control radars needed. There would need to be either 55B fire control radars or Aegis. Both would have taken significant space outside the sub and plenty of power.
	__________________ "You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles

24th June 2013, 05:01 AM	#271
jargon buster Banned Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 4,773	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman Why the need to have the plane empty of people? Why not just blow up an ordinary airliner full with passengers and crew members? One reason is if the shadow cabal are not entirely like evil monsters and actually want to spare the lives of innocent people. A more sinister and powerful purpose however is that if it was an ordinary airliner with people in it, then not much of a coverup would be needed. On the other hand, if there were no actual victims, and news about it being an ordinary passenger flight had already gone out via the media, then it was too late to admit that the plane was empty of people! Think about it, what would the government say? Would the President admit that there must be some powerful shadow cabal operating in the U.S. capable of staging something as colossal as the TWA 800 crash? No way. Because that would undermine the whole public power structure. It was much easier to just cover up the part about the victims by creating fake victims and their families. And once that first coverup was done: checkmate! The cabal could then start to blackmail the government etc like crazy. At first only those people who were in on the coverup, which was many but not that many. That would come to change after the 9/11 attacks, with millions of people in positions of power and in other key positions being forced to go along with a coverup. How?
jargon buster Banned Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 4,773

24th June 2013, 05:13 AM	#272
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Originally Posted by jargon buster How? The cabal can make a threat to a person in position of power: "You do as we tell you or we will expose your coverup!" And even if the person in power himself or herself doesn't give a crap about society collapsing because of being able to escape to a luxury bunker in a tax haven, there are other people in positions of power who have interests that they need to protect. So the person being threatened can't just act in isolation without bringing down consequences from all around society on him- or herself. So a threat like that is effective because society is an interconnected whole power structure.

24th June 2013, 05:21 AM	#273
aggle-rithm Ardent Formulist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 15,334	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman The cabal can make a threat to a person in position of power: "You do as we tell you or we will expose your coverup!" And even if the person in power himself or herself doesn't give a crap about society collapsing because of being able to escape to a luxury bunker in a tax haven, there are other people in positions of power who have interests that they need to protect. So the person being threatened can't just act in isolation without bringing down consequences from all around society on him- or herself. So a threat like that is effective because society is an interconnected whole power structure. A threat from an imaginary cabal to expose the imaginary coverup of an imaginary crime is effective? I suppose so, as long as the person in position of power is imaginary as well. That's quite a circus you've got going on in your head, there.
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

24th June 2013, 05:23 AM	#274
aggle-rithm Ardent Formulist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 15,334	Originally Posted by jargon buster How? The tales told by conspiracy theorists would be much more entertaining if they didn't have so many plot holes.
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

24th June 2013, 05:24 AM	#275
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Originally Posted by aggle-rithm A threat from an imaginary cabal to expose the imaginary coverup of an imaginary crime is effective? I suppose so, as long as the person in position of power is imaginary as well. That's quite a circus you've got going on in your head, there. What, if, it's the victims of the TWA 800 disaster that are imaginary? Just saying.