Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed? Part II.

[ceptimus]

Originally Posted by lionking

getting rid of coal power stations. These things will make a massive difference to carbon emissions.

Not massive, but the conversion of Lynemouth power station from coal burning to biomass burning has made a difference - total carbon emissions per joule of electrical energy produced are now greater than before.

[a_unique_person]

Originally Posted by Stout

Mann might just be a little bit stupid in his obsession with climate change deniers.

He is more astute than you let on.

[Matthew Best]

Originally Posted by cullennz

Has anyone added up how many plane trips across the atlantic it has taken to get her their "carbon free" given it was at least 5 for NY and 2 more to get her to COP25?

Geez. It's inspirational.

Brilliant.

"I am not traveling like this because I want everyone to do so," said Thunberg. "I'm doing this to sort of send the message that it is impossible to live sustainable today, and that needs to change. It needs to become much easier."

[Doghouse Reilly]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

"I am not traveling like this because I want everyone to do so," said Thunberg. "I'm doing this to sort of send the message that it is impossible to live sustainable today, and that needs to change. It needs to become much easier."

Pretty sure everyone already knew it was hard to travel overseas without air travel. That's kind of why planes became a thing. What does she mean by "It needs to become much easier"? Is she advocating for easily accessible and affordable sailboat travel for the masses?

[Matthew Best]

"I'm doing this to sort of send the message that it is impossible to live sustainable today, and that needs to change."

[Childlike Empress]

I just checked the catamaran youtube couple's channel trying to tune into Greta's experience but I failed, skimming the most recent two videos. No sign of her and also not in the top comments. I don't feel like spending more than those few minutes on that, but if anybody looks deeper and finds a spoor of her in the wild, please add it to the thread.

[lionking]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

"I am not traveling like this because I want everyone to do so," said Thunberg. "I'm doing this to sort of send the message that it is impossible to live sustainable today, and that needs to change. It needs to become much easier."

Such a simple, straightforward explanation, yet somehow beyond some on this thread.

Gandhi led his protests not to cause violence and death, but to show what was possible. It worked.

And if some here think I’m comparing the two, they are idiots.

[crescent]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

I just checked the catamaran youtube couple's channel trying to tune into Greta's experience but I failed, skimming the most recent two videos. No sign of her and also not in the top comments. I don't feel like spending more than those few minutes on that, but if anybody looks deeper and finds a spoor of her in the wild, please add it to the thread.

It seems like they only upload videos when they are in port, so no surprise that no videos of the trip are up yet. Maybe in a day or two or three....

[crescent]

Here's a quick article regarding the trip across the Atlantic:

Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing: 'Why I wanted to help'

Quote:

She needed a crew to take her back to Europe - and she needed them quickly.

That's when Nikki Henderson stepped in.

"I helped because I wanted to see what Greta was really like, get to know her and be able to educate myself about what she represents," the 26-year-old British sailor tells Radio 1 Newsbeat.

The problem was that Nikki was in the UK when she was asked by Australian YouTubers Riley Whitlum and Elayna Carausu to join them on their yacht, ferrying Greta back to Europe.

And with just two days notice she had no choice but to fly to meet them.

She was criticised for that decision as the whole mission was supposed to be carbon-neutral.

"In an ideal world, yes, I would have sailed there and sailed back," she says.

"But this is a more symbolic trip. Greta wanted to sail because it's a good way to send a message to the world that there is no real sustainable option to travel.

"She's not telling anyone how to travel, she's not telling anyone how to live their life."

Quote:

While most people aren't able to sail across the Atlantic, Nikki does believe there are lessons to be learned from their journey.

"I think we did show that sailing across the Atlantic isn't very practical and that we do need more sustainable options available to the everyday person," she says.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

"I am not traveling like this because I want everyone to do so," said Thunberg. "I'm doing this to sort of send the message that it is impossible to live sustainable today, and that needs to change. It needs to become much easier."

That definitely addresses my complaint that hitching rides from princes of Monaco and YouTube sailboat celebrities wasn't a scalable strategy for sustainable living on a global scale.

But who's her audience for this?

Also, WTF is a "sort of message"?

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

"I'm doing this to sort of send the message that it is impossible to live sustainable today, and that needs to change."

It's not impossible to live sustainably today. I'm not sure how her sailing trips are supposed to relate to the message.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by lionking

Such a simple, straightforward explanation, yet somehow beyond some on this thread.

It's not simple and straightforward, though. It's actually pretty incoherent.

[8enotto]

I think the young lady needs help with her public statements to present a clearer and coherent image.

If she wants to lead the young, it would help she demonstrated she had a plan for her goals.

Oops, that doesn't work isn't very convincing.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by 8enotto

I think the young lady needs help with her public statements to present a clearer and coherent image.

If she wants to lead the young, it would help she demonstrated she had a plan for her goals.

Oops, that doesn't work isn't very convincing.

"Oops, that doesn't work" is at least more convincing than "this not working was my plan all along".

[Stout]

Quote:

"I'm doing this to sort of send the message that it is impossible to live sustainable today, and that needs to change."

Yes, it is possible to live sustainably today, the problem is, nobody, save the odd eco hippy wants to do it. Usually it's called an off-grid lifestyle but living with a small carbon footprint is definitely doable. No propane patio heaters though.

Quote:

Greta wanted to sail because it's a good way to send a message to the world that there is no real sustainable option to travel.

Yes there is, you can ride a bicycle or walk, even drive in an electric car if you can recharge it from renewables but, given what we have to work with right now, today, a bus is a pretty good option too.

Oh....you mean there no sustainable way to cross the Atlantic. Well, duh. What sort of options would we be realistically looking at here to make this change ? Do tell, Nikki.

[theprestige]

The more I think about it, the stupider it sounds. I'm officially upgrading my ridicule from Thunberg's fan club to Thunberg herself.

Also, this right here is straight-up cultist crap:

She needed a crew to take her back to Europe - and she needed them quickly.

That's when Nikki Henderson stepped in.

"I helped because I wanted to see what Greta was really like, get to know her and be able to educate myself about what she represents," the 26-year-old British sailor tells Radio 1 Newsbeat.

The problem was that Nikki was in the UK when she was asked by Australian YouTubers Riley Whitlum and Elayna Carausu to join them on their yacht, ferrying Greta back to Europe.

And with just two days notice she had no choice but to fly to meet them.

Instead of flying this person out to have her personal encounter with the Gretamessiah, why not just fly Greta and her guardian to COP25? The answer is that it's not actually important for Greta to go to COP25.

[theprestige]

Also, why does crossing the Atlantic need to be easier/sustainable for the average person?

I thought the obvious answer to climate change is to severely restrict all consumption and emission across the board, but still allow exceptions for the important work.

People who actually need to be at COP25 should fly. People who don't need to be at COP25 should stay home. There is no rational universe in which anyone needs to be at COP25 so badly that people have to fly around the world to crew their sailboat so they can sail to COP25 instead of flying.

Greta is beclowning us all.

[Scorpion]

Greta Thunberg's latest tweet.

The endless conspiracy theories and denial of facts.
The lies, hate and bullying of children who communicate and act on the science.
All because some adults - terrified of change - so desperately don't want to talk about the #ClimateCrisis
This is hope in disguise.
We're winning.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Scorpion

Greta Thunberg's latest tweet.

The endless conspiracy theories and denial of facts.
The lies, hate and bullying of children who communicate and act on the science.
All because some adults - terrified of change - so desperately don't want to talk about the #ClimateCrisis
This is hope in disguise.
We're winning.

"See what I mean? I'm totally getting to them!"

- Christ on the Cross, probably

[lionking]

Originally Posted by theprestige

"See what I mean? I'm totally getting to them!"

- Christ on the Cross, probably

As this thread displays, she is indeed getting to them.

The ridicule that has been thrown her way in this thread is ample evidence. The deniers in this thread are particular apoplectic.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by lionking

As this thread displays, she is indeed getting to them.

The ridicule that has been thrown her way in this thread is ample evidence. The deniers in this thread are particular apoplectic.

You don't have a problem with someone flying from the UK to the US, just to meet with Greta?

You don't have a problem with Greta not just flying herself to COP25, if it's so important she attend?

You seriously think her "sort of message" about the impracticality of traveling by sail isn't ridiculous on its face?

[Doghouse Reilly]

Originally Posted by theprestige

You don't have a problem with someone flying from the UK to the US, just to meet with Greta?

You don't have a problem with Greta not just flying herself to COP25, if it's so important she attend?

You seriously think her "sort of message" about the impracticality of traveling by sail isn't ridiculous on its face?

Nobody knew how difficult it was to cross the Atlantic before her noble sacrifice exposed the truth. Now we all recognize how desperately we need mass sailboat travel options available for everyone.

[cullennz]

Originally Posted by lionking

As this thread displays, she is indeed getting to them.

The ridicule that has been thrown her way in this thread is ample evidence. The deniers in this thread are particular apoplectic.

Actually the tweet shows they are getting to her

[Stout]

Originally Posted by lionking

As this thread displays, she is indeed getting to them.

The ridicule that has been thrown her way in this thread is ample evidence. The deniers in this thread are particular apoplectic.

Like a broken record.....

So no speculation on what Thunberg might have meant about drastic action being needed ? Surprising, as this place is usually rife with speculation. And no ideas on how to cross the Atlantic in a sustainable fashion ? Of course not.

Just sit by and watch the new scriptures be written by GaiaGreta, et al. Then obey, like a good skeptic should.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally Posted by theprestige

...

Also, WTF is a "sort of message"?

It's pretty much the way a 15 year old talks when they don't have a prepared speech.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Also, WTF is a "sort of message"?

She didn't say she was sending a sort of message, she said she was, sort of, sending a message. If you want a translation into American, substitute the word "like" instead of "sort of".

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by Scorpion

Greta Thunberg's latest tweet.

The endless conspiracy theories and denial of facts.
The lies, hate and bullying of children who communicate and act on the science.
All because some adults - terrified of change - so desperately don't want to talk about the #ClimateCrisis
This is hope in disguise.
We're winning.

If someone had called me a child weeks before I turned seventeen you can bet some catastrophic climate change would have ensued.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

She didn't say she was sending a sort of message, she said she was, sort of, sending a message. If you want a translation into American, substitute the word "like" instead of "sort of".

Any time the word ",like," appears in conversation, it's a signal to speakers of American English that the speaker is a clueless twat. Maybe you should reconsider your qualifications as a translator of American English.

[Stout]

Originally Posted by cullennz

Actually the tweet shows they are getting to her

Thunberg wind when she and her cronies manage to get next year's CO2 emissions down by 7.6% otherwise she gets an an honorable mention.

I don't know what "change" she figures people are afraid of and since these discussions rarely get beyond wind and solar I have to ask. Does anybody really care where their power comes form ? No, right ? You just want to turn the dial and have the hot tub jets come on and what's powering those matters not, only that they do come on.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Any time the word ",like," appears in conversation, it's a signal to speakers of American English that the speaker is a clueless twat. Maybe you should reconsider your qualifications as a translator of American English.

There are an awful lot of clueless twats in America, then. Like, gag me with a spoon.

[lionking]

Originally Posted by Stout

Like a broken record.....

So no speculation on what Thunberg might have meant about drastic action being needed ? Surprising, as this place is usually rife with speculation. And no ideas on how to cross the Atlantic in a sustainable fashion ? Of course not.

Just sit by and watch the new scriptures be written by GaiaGreta, et al. Then obey, like a good skeptic should.

Unlike you, who can’t treat anyone seriously unless they are off the grid or close to it, I think governments, businesses and individuals can do quite a lot. Like closing coal mining and coal power plants, installing solar panels (as I will be doing next year) and generating more renewable power.

Not to your standard of perfection? I don’t give a ****. Your defeatism does nothing. Greta is encouraging people to change their ways. Will this be enough? Don’t know. I know what raising the white flag does though.

Would it worry me if Greta caught a plane? Not at all. I’d rather look at her body of work, which is already extraordinary.

The people you should direct your bile at are leaders like Trump, and idiots like one at my work who is full on “climate change is a secret global conspiracy”. She has children. As they grow older they will listen to people like Greta and not their batty mum.

[Matthew Best]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Also, WTF is a "sort of message"?

I don't know - it seems to be a quote you made up, despite putting it in quotation marks.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

I don't know - it seems to be a quote you made up, despite putting it in quotation marks.

I'm willing to attribute that to a simple misreading.

[Stout]

Oh so now she's trying to get people to change their ways ?

That's weird.

Because Nikki Henderson just said.

"She's not telling anyone how to travel, she's not telling anyone how to live their life."

Her whole body of work consists of her shaming politicians and adults which is kind of extraordinary in a way, her targets clap for her.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by Stout

Oh so now she's trying to get people to change their ways ?

Literally the last page of posts have been saying that she isn't.

[Stout]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Literally the last page of posts have been saying that she isn't.

lionking is saying she is, see post #100

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by Stout

lionking is saying she is, see post #100

The fact that she is changing individual behaviour does not mean that she is trying to change individual behavour. She is trying to influence policy. The fact that people are changing their behaviour because of her is just a happy side-effect.

[Doghouse Reilly]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

The fact that she is changing individual behaviour does not mean that she is trying to change individual behavour. She is trying to influence policy. The fact that people are changing their behaviour because of her is just a happy side-effect.

I haven't seen any evidence of anyone changing their behavior as a result of her, let alone in any meaningful way that would have an impact on her cause. Is there any such evidence?

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly

I haven't seen any evidence of anyone changing their behavior as a result of her, let alone in any meaningful way that would have an impact on her cause. Is there any such evidence?

Post #78

[lionking]

Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly

I haven't seen any evidence of anyone changing their behavior as a result of her, let alone in any meaningful way that would have an impact on her cause. Is there any such evidence?

You’ve been oblivious to the street marches, like, everywhere?

But you will counter that marches and protests do nothing. Gandhi did nothing, nor did Martin Luther King. Anti Vietnam War protests were pointless; the South African government simply stopped apartheid with no external pressure at all; what were those East Berliners thinking?; do you want me to go on?

And to make it crystal clear again, I’m not comparing these movements to Greta’s school strikes and other protests they influenced.

But remember, all the protests I have mentioned started with a whimper before becoming a roar. Give Greta and her army of young people a little time. I hope they are not too late to undo the damage older generations have wrought.