Kyle Rittenhouse, accused multi-murderer from Kenosha BLM shooting - Page 9

Suddenly · 19th October 2020, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Thermal

Care to make this prediction interesting? Avatar bet, perhaps?

The probation part is implausible to say the least. Unless they find a judge and prosecutor that really likes riots or at best just ending up infamous.

They will take it to a jury and lose before they offer that. Put that blame elsewhere.

Thermal · 19th October 2020, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Suddenly

The probation part is implausible to say the least. Unless they find a judge and prosecutor that really likes riots or at best just ending up infamous.

They will take it to a jury and lose before they offer that. Put that blame elsewhere.

Yeah, he's going to be doing some time, I'd wager. Whether it is lenient, fair, or excessive remains to be seen. But I don't see a way that these circumstances would get him off with a slap. Killing mother ******* on the street tends to get you some time in the pokey on one count or the other.

webfusion · 19th October 2020, 10:19 PM

BREAKING NEWS:
Prosecutors have charged Joshua Zaminski with "disorderly conduct" for firing a handgun in the general direction of Rittenhouse (while Kyle was running away & trying to evade further contact with JoJo).

"Alex Blaine" was the name I heard used, and it turns out to be an alias for Zaminski.

The only way anything related to this thug will turn out to be a bombshell is if the coroner's report shows that a round from his gun was in Rosenbaum's back.

But this will never be proven, because this defendant claims that gun was stolen from his house just a few days before the police showed up to arrest him.

These biker thugs thought Kyle was a soft target, due to his young age and separation from his group, who wouldn't have the nuts to pull the trigger. oopsies...

Thermal · 19th October 2020, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

BREAKING NEWS:
Prosecutors have charged Joshua Zaminski with "disorderly conduct" for firing a handgun in the general direction of Rittenhouse (while Kyle was running away & trying to evade further contact with JoJo).

"Alex Blaine" was the name I heard used, and it turns out to be an alias for Zaminski.

The only way anything related to this thug will turn out to be a bombshell is if the coroner's report shows that a round from his gun was in Rosenbaum's back.

But this will never be proven, because this defendant claims that gun was stolen from his house just a few days before the police showed up to arrest him.

These biker thugs thought Kyle was a soft target, due to his young age and separation from his group, who wouldn't have the nuts to pull the trigger. oopsies...

I have it on good authority that The Purge was in effect, and there was no Law, so they'll have to drop the charge. Ya can't break the law if there is no law, can I get an amen?

webfusion · 19th October 2020, 10:39 PM

"The Purge was in effect" -- as it happens, kinda yeah, these sociopathic criminals were fully aware that Kenosha PD was standing down and the National Guard was a paper tiger.
When Police protection is withdrawn, citizens are left to fend for themselves.
Who you gonna call? Ghostbusters?

Have you even seen mention of this part of the scene in the MSM prior to this arrest? I sure haven't.
I was just wondering what the deal was with all the gunfire heard in the videos that was not coming from Kyle (I'm sure you noticed after Gaige was disarmed, shots ring out at the location from which Kyle fled). We still have not gotten a proper answer to that, but at least I managed to discover a black biker gang member who was seminally involved with the effort to take away Kyle's nice, expensive AR15, and leave him for dead in the car lot.

Thermal · 19th October 2020, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

"The Purge was in effect" -- as it happens, kinda yeah, these sociopathic criminals were fully aware that Kenosha PD was standing down and the National Guard was a paper tiger.
When Police protection is withdrawn, citizens are left to fend for themselves.
Who you gonna call? Ghostbusters?

Have you even seen mention of

Quit teasing. You have me on edge.

eta: your eta: haven't heard any of that

SuburbanTurkey · 20th October 2020, 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

BREAKING NEWS:
Prosecutors have charged Joshua Zaminski with "disorderly conduct" for firing a handgun in the general direction of Rittenhouse (while Kyle was running away & trying to evade further contact with JoJo).

"Alex Blaine" was the name I heard used, and it turns out to be an alias for Zaminski.

The only way anything related to this thug will turn out to be a bombshell is if the coroner's report shows that a round from his gun was in Rosenbaum's back.

But this will never be proven, because this defendant claims that gun was stolen from his house just a few days before the police showed up to arrest him.

These biker thugs thought Kyle was a soft target, due to his young age and separation from his group, who wouldn't have the nuts to pull the trigger. oopsies...

No need to spin conspiracy theories. Kyle shot people with a rifle, and this guy is charged with discharging a pistol. Unless the bodies of Kyle's victims are found with pistol bullets in them, it's safe to assume it was Kyle's rifle fire that killed them.

It is trivially easy to determine who shot Rosenbaum in this situation, nor do I think anyone is even disputing the fact that Kyle solely caused these deaths. The charging documents includes details from a preliminary medical exam of Rosenbaum and details his various gunshot wounds, all of which are consistent with being shot at close range by Rittenhouse.

Suddenly · 20th October 2020, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

BREAKING NEWS:
(while Kyle was running away & trying to evade further contact with JoJo).

.

(While Kyle, who had just shot someone, was running through a crowd still in possession of that weapon)

Where, oh where, are the "good guy with a gun" proponents? The whole point of that stuff is that these good people can stop a maniac with a gun before he kills more people.

webfusion · 20th October 2020, 05:55 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

No need to spin conspiracy theories. Kyle shot people with a rifle, and this guy is charged with discharging a pistol. Unless the bodies of Kyle's victims are found with pistol bullets in them, it's safe to assume it was Kyle's rifle fire that killed them.

It is trivially easy to determine who shot Rosenbaum in this situation, nor do I think anyone is even disputing the fact that Kyle solely caused these deaths. The charging documents includes details from a preliminary medical exam of Rosenbaum and details his various gunshot wounds, all of which are consistent with being shot at close range by Rittenhouse.

So, until this post of mine, you've never heard of Alex Blaine/Zaminski? OK, fair enough.
I noticed throughout this thread you've provided much false and uninformed narrative, starting with post #23. (putting blame on "white supremacists" "undesirables" "Back the Blue bootlicker" and "those looking for an opportunity to commit murder" -- but completely neglecting that the people he shot ALL have violent criminal history, and were glad to fight with cops, and that they and their cohorts clearly decided to take over the streets of Kenosha to cause pain and property losses to the community. In other words, sociopaths. Using BLM as cover for their own violent tendencies and anarchist agendas).

In post #87, you mentioned "Unless there's some evidence showing that the two men were attacking Rittenhouse as accomplices..." --- there is video evidence of exactly that.
Their scheme was to isolate Kyle, take his weapon, turn it on him and leave the young man for dead in the car lot. That plan of theirs almost succeeded, actually. Only the well-trained-in AR15-operations Rittenhouse was able to thwart this effort to end his life.

Within that same post, you offered "It's a big leap to assume the pistol shot was in hostility to Rittenhouse." Leaping lizards!

Oh, and one last thing, regarding the second scene down the street, as Kyle fled towards the Police forces arrayed at the end of the street.
Gaige Grosskreuz KNEW that Kyle was going to the Police and turn himself over to them.
How did he KNOW? He asked him, and Kyle responded directly while he was headed in that direction (I don't have a link to that video segment live-streamed by Gaige himself, but no matter, it's out there for anyone truly interested). Once Kyle ended up on the ground, Gaige decided to "cranium him" and his only regret was not emptying his clip into Kyle right then and there.

From a legal standpoint (self-defense) the question is whether he held a 'reasonable belief' that he was in danger of serious injury from Rosenbaum (or Huber, or Grosskreuz). More and more, the answer to that is a resounding YES.

Oh, and in Post #94, you noted: "Every second that Kyle was on the streets armed was unlawful." So too, the armed presence of several of his antagonists, who were clearly very interested in violence and killing someone. I did not see ANY intent on the part of Kyle Rittenhouse (or any of his fellow Kenosha Guard armed security force) to go into Kenosha with the idea to hunt people or aim to kill anyone. While guys like Zaminski did.

SuburbanTurkey · 20th October 2020, 06:02 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

So, until this post of mine, you've never heard of Alex Blaine/Zaminski? OK, fair enough.
I noticed throughout this thread you've provided much false and uninformed narrative, starting with post #23. (putting blame on "white supremacists" "undesirables" "Back the Blue bootlicker" and "those looking for an opportunity to commit murder" -- but completely neglecting that the people he shot ALL have violent criminal history, and were glad to fight with cops, and that they and their cohorts clearly decided to take over the streets of Kenosha to cause pain and property losses to the community. In other words, sociopaths. Using BLM as cover for their own violent tendencies and anarchist agendas).

In post #87, you mentioned "Unless there's some evidence showing that the two men were attacking Rittenhouse as accomplices..." --- there is video evidence of exactly that.
Their scheme was to isolate Kyle, take his weapon, turn it on him and leave the young man for dead in the car lot. That plan of theirs almost succeeded, actually. Only the well-trained-in AR15-operations Rittenhouse was able to thwart this effort to end his life.

Within that same post, you offered "It's a big leap to assume the pistol shot was in hostility to Rittenhouse." Leaping lizards!

Oh, and one last thing, regarding the second scene down the street, as Kyle fled towards the Police forces arrayed at the end of the street.
Gaige Grosskreuz KNEW that Kyle was going to the Police and turn himself over to them.
How did he KNOW? He asked him, and Kyle responded directly while he was headed in that direction (I don't have a link to that video segment live-streamed by Gaige himself, but no matter, it's out there for anyone truly interested). Once Kyle ended up on the ground, Gaige decided to "cranium him" and his only regret was not emptying his clip into Kyle right then and there.

From a legal standpoint (self-defense) the question is whether he held a 'reasonable belief' that he was in danger of serious injury from Rosenbaum (or Huber, or Grosskreuz). More and more, the answer to that is a resounding YES.

Oh, and in Post #94, you noted: "Every second that Kyle was on the streets armed was unlawful." So too, the armed presence of several of his antagonists, who were clearly very interested in violence and killing someone.

It's going to be a long shot legal defense to claim that gunning down unarmed Rosenbaum was justified because some guy not involved in the scuffle shot a round in the air from across a parking lot. This other man is notably not charged with any kind of assault, but rather a misdemeanor for illegally discharging a gun into the air.

To be honest, I think Kyle's legal defense would be better off not even mentioning this. He killed Rosenbaum, so he had best stick to explaining why Rosenbaum, not some rando popping off rounds into the air somewhere else, was an immediate threat justifying lethal force. Saying he got scared because of a gunshot at a riot and started blasting is not a good move.

So are you just making up nonsense about a second shooter wounding Rosenbaum? I'm not seeing anyone actually claim this anywhere, is this just a fiction from your mind?

There is nothing to indicate Kyle is well trained. Killing unarmed people at close range with a rifle doesn't require much skill. School shooters and other murderers like Kyle often manage to kill heaps of unarmed people with little to no training.

webfusion · 20th October 2020, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by Suddenly

(While Kyle, who had just shot someone, was running through a crowd still in possession of that weapon)

Where, oh where, are the "good guy with a gun" proponents? The whole point of that stuff is that these good people can stop a maniac with a gun before he kills more people.

You are mixing up two different scenes.

And there is a live streaming video of Gaige Grosskreuz literally following Kyle as he makes his way calmly but quickly and deliberately to the Police forces at the end of the street, and Gaige was asking what his intentions are --- and Kyle says he's going to get the cops.

SuburbanTurkey · 20th October 2020, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

You are mixing up two different scenes.

And there is a live streaming video of Gaige Grosskreuz literally following Kyle as he makes his way calmly but quickly and deliberately to the Police forces at the end of the street, and Gaige was asking what his intentions are --- and Kyle says he's going to get the cops.

Interesting you see it that way. I predict that the testimony of Grosskreuz will be pivotal in getting a guilty verdict for the murder of Huber and the other crimes committed during the second set of shootings. As one of the few victims that survived, he will be able to speak to motive, and explain why he attempted to apprehend Rittenhouse (and notably did not fire his weapon while doing so).

He seems to have clammed up pending the trial, which is the proper thing to do.

Only time and court testimony will tell. Not much point in theorizing until then.

SuburbanTurkey · 20th October 2020, 06:35 AM

Interesting article with details I hadn't seen before.

Rosenbaum was homeless and living on the streets. He had been discharged from the hospital that day and seems to have largely got wrapped up in the riot by chance.

Quote:

Rosenbaum had never attended a protest, and seemed caught up in this one almost by accident. He carried a clear plastic bag containing a deodorant stick, underwear and socks that the hospital had given him upon discharge following his suicide attempt. In the seconds before he was shot, Rosenbaum threw the plastic bag at Rittenhouse and chased him behind some parked cars.

Rosenbaum's only weapon was a hobo sack with some personal items in it. Looking forward to Kyle's attorney explaining why it was necessary to shoot this man.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...s/?arc404=true

Our brave anti-looting hero shot dead a homeless, mentally ill man that had the misfortune of living on the streets during a riot.

Quote:

Huber was part of the crowd at the gas station trying to calm Rosenbaum down after a self-styled militia member pointed his gun at the protesters. And he was standing just down the street from the car dealership when Rittenhouse fired the shots that killed Rosenbaum.

Quote:

She had watched the video of Huber’s final moments before he was shot. The hardest part was seeing how close Huber got to wresting the gun from Rittenhouse in the split second before he was killed. “He almost got it away from him,” Gittings said.

Real heroic stuff, unlike these milita guys that just wanted to parade around with their guns and maybe get an opportunity to kill people.

Numerous claims of militia people pointing guns at protestors throughout the night. I'm sure Kyle being part of a self-appointed vigilante mob that was brandishing weapons will help his self-defense claim /s

Suddenly · 20th October 2020, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Only time and court testimony will tell. Not much point in theorizing until then.

Well, except that circulating these theories and creative framings of fact can, when unchecked, guide public discourse towards a sympathetic narrative that could affect the legal proceedings.

In a case like this a criminal defense with deep pockets and little regard for ethics would spend most of their money on hiring publicists and other means to this end.

While playing a stalling game to allow this before the substantive parts of the legal case. Like a frivolous extradition battle.

SuburbanTurkey · 20th October 2020, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by Suddenly

Well, except that circulating these theories and creative framings of fact can, when unchecked, guide public discourse towards a sympathetic narrative that could affect the legal proceedings.

In a case like this a criminal defense with deep pockets and little regard for ethics would spend most of their money on hiring publicists and other means to this end.

While playing a stalling game to allow this before the substantive parts of the legal case. Like a frivolous extradition battle.

It's a multiple felony case topped with a murder, it's going to be a long process as both sides try to get their case perfect. Covid won't help either.

Even under better circumstances, felony murder cases don't move fast.

Suddenly · 20th October 2020, 07:01 AM

double

Suddenly · 20th October 2020, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

It's a multiple felony case topped with a murder, it's going to be a long process as both sides try to get their case perfect. Covid won't help either.

Even under better circumstances, felony murder cases don't move fast.

Sure. But stalling it out by a drawn out pointless extradition challenge keeps it completely off the radar. His being brought back and arraigned, etc., would draw attention. Setting pre-trial and trial dates would give it some temporal framework. The nuts and bolts of extradition proceedings are tedious and boring and can be indefinite.

Public issue fatigue and public discourse manipulation are the most effective defense tools in this case. This is a stalling tactic less obvious than moving for continuances.

SuburbanTurkey · 20th October 2020, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by Suddenly

Sure. But stalling it out by a drawn out pointless extradition challenge keeps it completely off the radar. His being brought back and arraigned, etc., would draw attention. Setting pre-trial and trial dates would give it some temporal framework. The nuts and bolts of extradition proceedings are tedious and boring and can be indefinite.

Public issue fatigue and public discourse manipulation are the most effective defense tools in this case. This is a stalling tactic less obvious than moving for continuances.

Part of me wonders if it's just a grift by his lawyers. Fighting pointless battles runs up billable hours, and Kyle's notoriety among the bloodthirsty right wing means there's no shortage of donations coming into the legal defense fund.

Maybe you're right and it's stalling to try to infect the public with a friendly narrative before the trial, but the involvement of LL Wood screams grift.

Suddenly · 20th October 2020, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Part of me wonders if it's just a grift by his lawyers. Fighting pointless battles racks of billable hours, and Kyle's notoriety among the bloodthirsty right wing means there's no shortage of donations coming into the legal defense fund.

Maybe you're right and it's stalling to try to infect the public with a friendly narrative before the trial, but the involvement of LL Wood screams grift.

It can be both. Two birds, etc.

Disbelief · 20th October 2020, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

So, until this post of mine, you've never heard of Alex Blaine/Zaminski? OK, fair enough.
I noticed throughout this thread you've provided much false and uninformed narrative, starting with post #23. (putting blame on "white supremacists" "undesirables" "Back the Blue bootlicker" and "those looking for an opportunity to commit murder" -- but completely neglecting that the people he shot ALL have violent criminal history, and were glad to fight with cops, and that they and their cohorts clearly decided to take over the streets of Kenosha to cause pain and property losses to the community. In other words, sociopaths. Using BLM as cover for their own violent tendencies and anarchist agendas).

In post #87, you mentioned "Unless there's some evidence showing that the two men were attacking Rittenhouse as accomplices..." --- there is video evidence of exactly that.
Their scheme was to isolate Kyle, take his weapon, turn it on him and leave the young man for dead in the car lot. That plan of theirs almost succeeded, actually. Only the well-trained-in AR15-operations Rittenhouse was able to thwart this effort to end his life.

Within that same post, you offered "It's a big leap to assume the pistol shot was in hostility to Rittenhouse." Leaping lizards!

Oh, and one last thing, regarding the second scene down the street, as Kyle fled towards the Police forces arrayed at the end of the street.
Gaige Grosskreuz KNEW that Kyle was going to the Police and turn himself over to them.
How did he KNOW? He asked him, and Kyle responded directly while he was headed in that direction (I don't have a link to that video segment live-streamed by Gaige himself, but no matter, it's out there for anyone truly interested). Once Kyle ended up on the ground, Gaige decided to "cranium him" and his only regret was not emptying his clip into Kyle right then and there.

From a legal standpoint (self-defense) the question is whether he held a 'reasonable belief' that he was in danger of serious injury from Rosenbaum (or Huber, or Grosskreuz). More and more, the answer to that is a resounding YES.

Oh, and in Post #94, you noted: "Every second that Kyle was on the streets armed was unlawful." So too, the armed presence of several of his antagonists, who were clearly very interested in violence and killing someone. I did not see ANY intent on the part of Kyle Rittenhouse (or any of his fellow Kenosha Guard armed security force) to go into Kenosha with the idea to hunt people or aim to kill anyone. While guys like Zaminski did.

That's some serious fan fiction right there.

webfusion · 20th October 2020, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Disbelief

That's some serious fan fiction right there.

This guy was brandishing a handgun all night long.
This guy has prior convictions.
This guy is a black biker gang member.
He stood right next to JoJo (pink shirt) as he ranted and raved "Shoot me, N^gga" and smiled with an evil grin at the camera.

Ron Obvious · 20th October 2020, 03:27 PM

Is there a better picture? Looks more like a phone to me.

William Parcher · 20th October 2020, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

This guy is a black biker gang member.

He looks white to me.

webfusion · 20th October 2020, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Ron Obvious

Is there a better picture? Looks more like a phone to me.

Yeah, there are plenty of video screen grabs with better quality (and different angles of this thug mingling with JoJo and the rest of the mob). However, I assure you he did not shoot towards Kyle running-away-from-JoJo with a phone. Hope that helps.

For William Parcher -- "He looks white to me." Yep. Look up the coterie of Sin City Disciples.

Elagabalus · 20th October 2020, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by William Parcher

He looks white to me.

Where's the picture of him?

William Parcher · 20th October 2020, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by Elagabalus

Where's the picture of him?

Post #341.

Elagabalus · 20th October 2020, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by William Parcher

Post #341.

It linked me to a white mountain man looking dude. Is that him?

webfusion · 20th October 2020, 08:28 PM

Let me rephrase it --- he is not an African American, he is a Caucasian man who belongs to a predominantly African American outlaw biker group called the 1%'ers.

I have a legal question -- since he fired the first shot out there in the car lot, even though he was not directly in proximity & engaging Kyle face-to-face, would that have any bearing on the defense case?

Gulliver Foyle · 24th October 2020, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Ron Obvious

Is there a better picture? Looks more like a phone to me.

Both photos look heavily and very badly photoshopped.

carrps · 24th October 2020, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle

Both photos look heavily and very badly photoshopped.

Hah. Look at that index finger on the gun. Totally 'shopped.

webfusion · 25th October 2020, 05:42 AM

CamoPants guy was holding/displaying his weapon at various points througout the night; admitted to Police that he fired a 'warning shot' (?) as Kyle ran across the parking lot evading the pursuing JoJo; his identity was first reported as 'Alex Blaine' and later (using his tattoos as reference) revealed to be one Joshua Ziminski, 1%'er biker.

I am skeptical of anyone now saying that these pictures (and the video it was captured from) are inaccurate or 'faked' to insert a gun into his hand. It would be YOUR requirement to provide evidence of that claim regarding these and other photos.

Nevermind, don't waste your time: CamoPantsGuy had a gun, he discharged it in the direction of Kyle and JoJo in the car lot, and yes, he was out there alongside JoJo earlier (which only added to the valid fears Kyle had regarding the need to protect his own life with the AR15 once JoJo started chasing him and attempting to steal the rifle, with CamoPantsGuy opening fire from behind).

Thermal · 25th October 2020, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

CamoPants guy was holding/displaying his weapon at various points througout the night; admitted to Police that he fired a 'warning shot' (?) as Kyle ran across the parking lot evading the pursuing JoJo; his identity was first reported as 'Alex Blaine' and later (using his tattoos as reference) revealed to be one Joshua Ziminski, 1%'er biker.

I am skeptical of anyone now saying that these pictures (and the video it was captured from) are inaccurate or 'faked' to insert a gun into his hand. It would be YOUR requirement to provide evidence of that claim regarding these and other photos.

Nevermind, don't waste your time: CamoPantsGuy had a gun, he discharged it in the direction of Kyle and JoJo in the car lot, and yes, he was out there alongside JoJo earlier (which only added to the valid fears Kyle had regarding the need to protect his own life with the AR15 once JoJo started chasing him and attempting to steal the rifle, with CamoPantsGuy opening fire from behind).

And all that still changes nothing from Ky-Ky's standpoint. Hearing a gunshot from somewhere behind you during a riot does not grant you license to kill.

Rittenhouse was running around alone with a high powered rifle during a riot, that he went out of his way to insert himself into. That is arguably provocation, on it's own. He was not passing through on his way home, or protecting his property. He went far out of his way to arm himself and willingly insert himself into a violent mob. Since he has no law enforcement powers, JoJo and others could arguably see him as a deadly provocateur.

This is by no means an easy one, in any event. But to see it as an open-and-s
hut case of anything is childishly simplistic. No matter which side you favor, the legal ambiguity should be clear.

SuburbanTurkey · 26th October 2020, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Thermal

And all that still changes nothing from Ky-Ky's standpoint. Hearing a gunshot from somewhere behind you during a riot does not grant you license to kill.

Rittenhouse was running around alone with a high powered rifle during a riot, that he went out of his way to insert himself into. That is arguably provocation, on it's own. He was not passing through on his way home, or protecting his property. He went far out of his way to arm himself and willingly insert himself into a violent mob. Since he has no law enforcement powers, JoJo and others could arguably see him as a deadly provocateur.

This is by no means an easy one, in any event. But to see it as an open-and-s
hut case of anything is childishly simplistic. No matter which side you favor, the legal ambiguity should be clear.

That's my take too. Someone firing a warning shot is probably fair game for lethal self defense in response, but the guy shooting isn't the one Kyle killed. The conspiracy theorists are trying to gin up that they were "accomplices", but there's no evidence that they were working in any kind of coordination beyond being at the same protest. That's thin gravy.

It's a bit ironic claiming that some guy popping a round off in the air nearby is justification to open fire when the person has specifically chosen to violate a riot curfew in order to play vigilante.

The case could be made that every single person out that night, including Kyle, was in violation of the curfew order and thus breaking the law from the start. I wonder if such a consideration will come into play for any self-defense claim.

SuburbanTurkey · 30th October 2020, 04:10 PM

Rittenhouse extradited.

Quote:

An Illinois judge on Friday denied Kyle Rittenhouse's request for release and ordered him extradited to Wisconsin, where he faces homicide charges in Kenosha County.

He was transported to Kenosha County Jail on Friday afternoon, a sheriff's spokesman said.

News that should shock nobody that reads even marginally credible coverage of this case, or has a rudimentary knowledge of the US legal process.

Quote:

The records describe Rittenhouse going through cycles of calm, then crying and vomiting as he told Antioch police he had "ended a life."

Genuine remorse or just a murderer realizing he likely will spend the rest of his natural life in prison?

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/...or/6085295002/

webfusion · 30th October 2020, 11:24 PM

https://www.scribd.com/document/4822...enhouse-ruling

Full text of Judge Paul Novak's ruling.

This case now moves back into Kenosha for a media circus. Wouldn't surprise me if it's much like the OJ trial.

SuburbanTurkey · 31st October 2020, 04:36 AM

More details revealed from the arrest record of Rittenhouse.

Notable facts:

The murder weapon was a rifle purchased by an 18 year old friend living in Wisconsin. The details of the sale sound very close to an illegal straw purchase, as Kyle gave his friend money so that he could buy the rifle on his behalf. The rifle was stored in Wisconsin and never crossed into Illinois, where Kyle was not licensed. As of yet, there are no charges related to this possible straw purchase, which would likely come from the feds (specifically, the ATF, I would imagine). Lying on a form 4473, the federal firearm sale and background check form used when purchasing from a licensed dealer, is a felony.

Kyle claims he was hired to work security at the car lot, which is disputed by the car lot owner. Either Kyle is lying, or the car lot owner is a reckless moron to hire a 17 year old amateur to work an armed security gig.

No charges, as of yet, for the friend who provided Rittenhouse a rifle.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/...ds/6092483002/

deadrose · 1st November 2020, 06:14 PM

From our local Sinclair network station story, Kyle apparently cried and vomited several times in the police station. Apparently his lawyers think the Oscar Pistorius routine is a good look for him.

Quote:

“I shot two white kids,” Rittenhouse said, adding that he had “ended a man’s life.”

Only one was a man? Also he made it sound as if he'd have been okay with it if they weren't white. It doesn't seem as if he's doing his case much good.

KOMO news story

webfusion · 3rd November 2020, 04:57 PM

Kyle Rittenhouse was offered a chance to leave jail on bond (with the provision he doesn't handle a gun while he is out).

I wonder if he'll be able to post the bail? It's kinda high, but I hear he has some funds https://www.insider.com/fundraising-...million-2020-9

SuburbanTurkey · 4th November 2020, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

Kyle Rittenhouse was offered a chance to leave jail on bond (with the provision he doesn't handle a gun while he is out).

I wonder if he'll be able to post the bail? It's kinda high, but I hear he has some funds https://www.insider.com/fundraising-...million-2020-9

Seeing it listed at 2 million for bail. I'm not familiar with the bail process in that state, no idea if a lesser payment or a bondsman is an option or if Rittenhouse has to pony up the total amount.

He is a cause celebre for right wing reactionaries, and a decent sum of money has been raised for his legal defense. I assume Rittenhouse needs to keep a good portion of that to actually pay his legal defense and can't afford to blow it all on bail.

SuburbanTurkey · 9th November 2020, 05:56 PM

Quote:

KENOSHA COUNTY (WQOW) - The man who purchased the gun Kyle Rittenhouse allegedly used in shootings that killed two in Kenosha earlier this year is now facing charges and court documents show the gun was bought in Ladysmith.

Dominick Black, 19, is charged with two counts of intentionally giving a dangerous weapon to a person under 18 causing death.

https://waow.com/2020/11/09/gun-used...plaint-states/

Going off to commit a high profile double homicide is a hell of a way to thank your buddy for doing you a favor to evade gun laws.

Seems like an open and close case.

19th October 2020, 11:09 AM	#322
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: In the Troll Ignoring Section Posts: 21,971	Originally Posted by Suddenly The probation part is implausible to say the least. Unless they find a judge and prosecutor that really likes riots or at best just ending up infamous. They will take it to a jury and lose before they offer that. Put that blame elsewhere. Yeah, he's going to be doing some time, I'd wager. Whether it is lenient, fair, or excessive remains to be seen. But I don't see a way that these circumstances would get him off with a slap. Killing mother ******* on the street tends to get you some time in the pokey on one count or the other.
	__________________ "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet

19th October 2020, 10:19 PM	#323
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,010	BREAKING NEWS: Prosecutors have charged Joshua Zaminski with "disorderly conduct" for firing a handgun in the general direction of Rittenhouse (while Kyle was running away & trying to evade further contact with JoJo). "Alex Blaine" was the name I heard used, and it turns out to be an alias for Zaminski. The only way anything related to this thug will turn out to be a bombshell is if the coroner's report shows that a round from his gun was in Rosenbaum's back. But this will never be proven, because this defendant claims that gun was stolen from his house just a few days before the police showed up to arrest him. These biker thugs thought Kyle was a soft target, due to his young age and separation from his group, who wouldn't have the nuts to pull the trigger. oopsies...
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,010

19th October 2020, 10:28 PM	#324
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: In the Troll Ignoring Section Posts: 21,971	Originally Posted by webfusion BREAKING NEWS: Prosecutors have charged Joshua Zaminski with "disorderly conduct" for firing a handgun in the general direction of Rittenhouse (while Kyle was running away & trying to evade further contact with JoJo). "Alex Blaine" was the name I heard used, and it turns out to be an alias for Zaminski. The only way anything related to this thug will turn out to be a bombshell is if the coroner's report shows that a round from his gun was in Rosenbaum's back. But this will never be proven, because this defendant claims that gun was stolen from his house just a few days before the police showed up to arrest him. These biker thugs thought Kyle was a soft target, due to his young age and separation from his group, who wouldn't have the nuts to pull the trigger. oopsies... I have it on good authority that The Purge was in effect, and there was no Law, so they'll have to drop the charge. Ya can't break the law if there is no law, can I get an amen?
	__________________ "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet

19th October 2020, 10:39 PM	#325
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,010	"The Purge was in effect" -- as it happens, kinda yeah, these sociopathic criminals were fully aware that Kenosha PD was standing down and the National Guard was a paper tiger. When Police protection is withdrawn, citizens are left to fend for themselves. Who you gonna call? Ghostbusters? Have you even seen mention of this part of the scene in the MSM prior to this arrest? I sure haven't. I was just wondering what the deal was with all the gunfire heard in the videos that was not coming from Kyle (I'm sure you noticed after Gaige was disarmed, shots ring out at the location from which Kyle fled). We still have not gotten a proper answer to that, but at least I managed to discover a black biker gang member who was seminally involved with the effort to take away Kyle's nice, expensive AR15, and leave him for dead in the car lot.
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,010	Last edited by webfusion; 19th October 2020 at 10:52 PM. Reason: Who else was shooting that night?

19th October 2020, 10:43 PM	#326
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: In the Troll Ignoring Section Posts: 21,971	Originally Posted by webfusion "The Purge was in effect" -- as it happens, kinda yeah, these sociopathic criminals were fully aware that Kenosha PD was standing down and the National Guard was a paper tiger. When Police protection is withdrawn, citizens are left to fend for themselves. Who you gonna call? Ghostbusters? Have you even seen mention of Quit teasing. You have me on edge. eta: your eta: haven't heard any of that
	__________________ "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet Last edited by Thermal; 19th October 2020 at 11:16 PM.

19th October 2020, 11:03 AM	#321
Suddenly No Punting Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Not In Follansbee Posts: 5,478	Originally Posted by Thermal Care to make this prediction interesting? Avatar bet, perhaps? The probation part is implausible to say the least. Unless they find a judge and prosecutor that really likes riots or at best just ending up infamous. They will take it to a jury and lose before they offer that. Put that blame elsewhere.

20th October 2020, 04:12 AM	#327
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Originally Posted by webfusion BREAKING NEWS: Prosecutors have charged Joshua Zaminski with "disorderly conduct" for firing a handgun in the general direction of Rittenhouse (while Kyle was running away & trying to evade further contact with JoJo). "Alex Blaine" was the name I heard used, and it turns out to be an alias for Zaminski. The only way anything related to this thug will turn out to be a bombshell is if the coroner's report shows that a round from his gun was in Rosenbaum's back. But this will never be proven, because this defendant claims that gun was stolen from his house just a few days before the police showed up to arrest him. These biker thugs thought Kyle was a soft target, due to his young age and separation from his group, who wouldn't have the nuts to pull the trigger. oopsies... No need to spin conspiracy theories. Kyle shot people with a rifle, and this guy is charged with discharging a pistol. Unless the bodies of Kyle's victims are found with pistol bullets in them, it's safe to assume it was Kyle's rifle fire that killed them. It is trivially easy to determine who shot Rosenbaum in this situation, nor do I think anyone is even disputing the fact that Kyle solely caused these deaths. The charging documents includes details from a preliminary medical exam of Rosenbaum and details his various gunshot wounds, all of which are consistent with being shot at close range by Rittenhouse.
	Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 20th October 2020 at 04:40 AM.

20th October 2020, 05:50 AM	#328
Suddenly No Punting Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Not In Follansbee Posts: 5,478	Originally Posted by webfusion BREAKING NEWS: (while Kyle was running away & trying to evade further contact with JoJo). . (While Kyle, who had just shot someone, was running through a crowd still in possession of that weapon) Where, oh where, are the "good guy with a gun" proponents? The whole point of that stuff is that these good people can stop a maniac with a gun before he kills more people.

20th October 2020, 05:55 AM	#329
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,010	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey No need to spin conspiracy theories. Kyle shot people with a rifle, and this guy is charged with discharging a pistol. Unless the bodies of Kyle's victims are found with pistol bullets in them, it's safe to assume it was Kyle's rifle fire that killed them. It is trivially easy to determine who shot Rosenbaum in this situation, nor do I think anyone is even disputing the fact that Kyle solely caused these deaths. The charging documents includes details from a preliminary medical exam of Rosenbaum and details his various gunshot wounds, all of which are consistent with being shot at close range by Rittenhouse. So, until this post of mine, you've never heard of Alex Blaine/Zaminski? OK, fair enough. I noticed throughout this thread you've provided much false and uninformed narrative, starting with post #23. (putting blame on "white supremacists" "undesirables" "Back the Blue bootlicker" and "those looking for an opportunity to commit murder" -- but completely neglecting that the people he shot ALL have violent criminal history, and were glad to fight with cops, and that they and their cohorts clearly decided to take over the streets of Kenosha to cause pain and property losses to the community. In other words, sociopaths. Using BLM as cover for their own violent tendencies and anarchist agendas). In post #87, you mentioned "Unless there's some evidence showing that the two men were attacking Rittenhouse as accomplices..." --- there is video evidence of exactly that. Their scheme was to isolate Kyle, take his weapon, turn it on him and leave the young man for dead in the car lot. That plan of theirs almost succeeded, actually. Only the well-trained-in AR15-operations Rittenhouse was able to thwart this effort to end his life. Within that same post, you offered "It's a big leap to assume the pistol shot was in hostility to Rittenhouse." Leaping lizards! Oh, and one last thing, regarding the second scene down the street, as Kyle fled towards the Police forces arrayed at the end of the street. Gaige Grosskreuz KNEW that Kyle was going to the Police and turn himself over to them. How did he KNOW? He asked him, and Kyle responded directly while he was headed in that direction (I don't have a link to that video segment live-streamed by Gaige himself, but no matter, it's out there for anyone truly interested). Once Kyle ended up on the ground, Gaige decided to "cranium him" and his only regret was not emptying his clip into Kyle right then and there. From a legal standpoint (self-defense) the question is whether he held a 'reasonable belief' that he was in danger of serious injury from Rosenbaum (or Huber, or Grosskreuz). More and more, the answer to that is a resounding YES. Oh, and in Post #94, you noted: "Every second that Kyle was on the streets armed was unlawful." So too, the armed presence of several of his antagonists, who were clearly very interested in violence and killing someone. I did not see ANY intent on the part of Kyle Rittenhouse (or any of his fellow Kenosha Guard armed security force) to go into Kenosha with the idea to hunt people or aim to kill anyone. While guys like Zaminski did.
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,010	Last edited by webfusion; 20th October 2020 at 06:01 AM. Reason: added comment on Post 94

20th October 2020, 06:02 AM	#330
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Originally Posted by webfusion So, until this post of mine, you've never heard of Alex Blaine/Zaminski? OK, fair enough. I noticed throughout this thread you've provided much false and uninformed narrative, starting with post #23. (putting blame on "white supremacists" "undesirables" "Back the Blue bootlicker" and "those looking for an opportunity to commit murder" -- but completely neglecting that the people he shot ALL have violent criminal history, and were glad to fight with cops, and that they and their cohorts clearly decided to take over the streets of Kenosha to cause pain and property losses to the community. In other words, sociopaths. Using BLM as cover for their own violent tendencies and anarchist agendas). In post #87, you mentioned "Unless there's some evidence showing that the two men were attacking Rittenhouse as accomplices..." --- there is video evidence of exactly that. Their scheme was to isolate Kyle, take his weapon, turn it on him and leave the young man for dead in the car lot. That plan of theirs almost succeeded, actually. Only the well-trained-in AR15-operations Rittenhouse was able to thwart this effort to end his life. Within that same post, you offered "It's a big leap to assume the pistol shot was in hostility to Rittenhouse." Leaping lizards! Oh, and one last thing, regarding the second scene down the street, as Kyle fled towards the Police forces arrayed at the end of the street. Gaige Grosskreuz KNEW that Kyle was going to the Police and turn himself over to them. How did he KNOW? He asked him, and Kyle responded directly while he was headed in that direction (I don't have a link to that video segment live-streamed by Gaige himself, but no matter, it's out there for anyone truly interested). Once Kyle ended up on the ground, Gaige decided to "cranium him" and his only regret was not emptying his clip into Kyle right then and there. From a legal standpoint (self-defense) the question is whether he held a 'reasonable belief' that he was in danger of serious injury from Rosenbaum (or Huber, or Grosskreuz). More and more, the answer to that is a resounding YES. Oh, and in Post #94, you noted: "Every second that Kyle was on the streets armed was unlawful." So too, the armed presence of several of his antagonists, who were clearly very interested in violence and killing someone. It's going to be a long shot legal defense to claim that gunning down unarmed Rosenbaum was justified because some guy not involved in the scuffle shot a round in the air from across a parking lot. This other man is notably not charged with any kind of assault, but rather a misdemeanor for illegally discharging a gun into the air. To be honest, I think Kyle's legal defense would be better off not even mentioning this. He killed Rosenbaum, so he had best stick to explaining why Rosenbaum, not some rando popping off rounds into the air somewhere else, was an immediate threat justifying lethal force. Saying he got scared because of a gunshot at a riot and started blasting is not a good move. So are you just making up nonsense about a second shooter wounding Rosenbaum? I'm not seeing anyone actually claim this anywhere, is this just a fiction from your mind? There is nothing to indicate Kyle is well trained. Killing unarmed people at close range with a rifle doesn't require much skill. School shooters and other murderers like Kyle often manage to kill heaps of unarmed people with little to no training.
	Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 20th October 2020 at 06:07 AM.

20th October 2020, 06:13 AM	#331
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,010	Originally Posted by Suddenly (While Kyle, who had just shot someone, was running through a crowd still in possession of that weapon) Where, oh where, are the "good guy with a gun" proponents? The whole point of that stuff is that these good people can stop a maniac with a gun before he kills more people. You are mixing up two different scenes. And there is a live streaming video of Gaige Grosskreuz literally following Kyle as he makes his way calmly but quickly and deliberately to the Police forces at the end of the street, and Gaige was asking what his intentions are --- and Kyle says he's going to get the cops.
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,010	Last edited by webfusion; 20th October 2020 at 06:14 AM.

20th October 2020, 06:22 AM	#332
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Originally Posted by webfusion You are mixing up two different scenes. And there is a live streaming video of Gaige Grosskreuz literally following Kyle as he makes his way calmly but quickly and deliberately to the Police forces at the end of the street, and Gaige was asking what his intentions are --- and Kyle says he's going to get the cops. Interesting you see it that way. I predict that the testimony of Grosskreuz will be pivotal in getting a guilty verdict for the murder of Huber and the other crimes committed during the second set of shootings. As one of the few victims that survived, he will be able to speak to motive, and explain why he attempted to apprehend Rittenhouse (and notably did not fire his weapon while doing so). He seems to have clammed up pending the trial, which is the proper thing to do. Only time and court testimony will tell. Not much point in theorizing until then.

20th October 2020, 06:35 AM	#333
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Interesting article with details I hadn't seen before. Rosenbaum was homeless and living on the streets. He had been discharged from the hospital that day and seems to have largely got wrapped up in the riot by chance. Quote: Rosenbaum had never attended a protest, and seemed caught up in this one almost by accident. He carried a clear plastic bag containing a deodorant stick, underwear and socks that the hospital had given him upon discharge following his suicide attempt. In the seconds before he was shot, Rosenbaum threw the plastic bag at Rittenhouse and chased him behind some parked cars. Rosenbaum's only weapon was a hobo sack with some personal items in it. Looking forward to Kyle's attorney explaining why it was necessary to shoot this man. https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...s/?arc404=true Our brave anti-looting hero shot dead a homeless, mentally ill man that had the misfortune of living on the streets during a riot. Quote: Huber was part of the crowd at the gas station trying to calm Rosenbaum down after a self-styled militia member pointed his gun at the protesters. And he was standing just down the street from the car dealership when Rittenhouse fired the shots that killed Rosenbaum. Quote: She had watched the video of Huber’s final moments before he was shot. The hardest part was seeing how close Huber got to wresting the gun from Rittenhouse in the split second before he was killed. “He almost got it away from him,” Gittings said. Real heroic stuff, unlike these milita guys that just wanted to parade around with their guns and maybe get an opportunity to kill people. Numerous claims of militia people pointing guns at protestors throughout the night. I'm sure Kyle being part of a self-appointed vigilante mob that was brandishing weapons will help his self-defense claim /s
	Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 20th October 2020 at 06:43 AM.

20th October 2020, 06:38 AM	#334
Suddenly No Punting Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Not In Follansbee Posts: 5,478	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Only time and court testimony will tell. Not much point in theorizing until then. Well, except that circulating these theories and creative framings of fact can, when unchecked, guide public discourse towards a sympathetic narrative that could affect the legal proceedings. In a case like this a criminal defense with deep pockets and little regard for ethics would spend most of their money on hiring publicists and other means to this end. While playing a stalling game to allow this before the substantive parts of the legal case. Like a frivolous extradition battle.
	Last edited by Suddenly; 20th October 2020 at 06:40 AM.

20th October 2020, 06:46 AM	#335
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Originally Posted by Suddenly Well, except that circulating these theories and creative framings of fact can, when unchecked, guide public discourse towards a sympathetic narrative that could affect the legal proceedings. In a case like this a criminal defense with deep pockets and little regard for ethics would spend most of their money on hiring publicists and other means to this end. While playing a stalling game to allow this before the substantive parts of the legal case. Like a frivolous extradition battle. It's a multiple felony case topped with a murder, it's going to be a long process as both sides try to get their case perfect. Covid won't help either. Even under better circumstances, felony murder cases don't move fast.

20th October 2020, 07:01 AM	#336
Suddenly No Punting Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Not In Follansbee Posts: 5,478	double
	Last edited by Suddenly; 20th October 2020 at 07:02 AM.

20th October 2020, 07:02 AM	#337
Suddenly No Punting Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Not In Follansbee Posts: 5,478	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey It's a multiple felony case topped with a murder, it's going to be a long process as both sides try to get their case perfect. Covid won't help either. Even under better circumstances, felony murder cases don't move fast. Sure. But stalling it out by a drawn out pointless extradition challenge keeps it completely off the radar. His being brought back and arraigned, etc., would draw attention. Setting pre-trial and trial dates would give it some temporal framework. The nuts and bolts of extradition proceedings are tedious and boring and can be indefinite. Public issue fatigue and public discourse manipulation are the most effective defense tools in this case. This is a stalling tactic less obvious than moving for continuances.

20th October 2020, 07:04 AM	#338
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Originally Posted by Suddenly Sure. But stalling it out by a drawn out pointless extradition challenge keeps it completely off the radar. His being brought back and arraigned, etc., would draw attention. Setting pre-trial and trial dates would give it some temporal framework. The nuts and bolts of extradition proceedings are tedious and boring and can be indefinite. Public issue fatigue and public discourse manipulation are the most effective defense tools in this case. This is a stalling tactic less obvious than moving for continuances. Part of me wonders if it's just a grift by his lawyers. Fighting pointless battles runs up billable hours, and Kyle's notoriety among the bloodthirsty right wing means there's no shortage of donations coming into the legal defense fund. Maybe you're right and it's stalling to try to infect the public with a friendly narrative before the trial, but the involvement of LL Wood screams grift.
	Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 20th October 2020 at 07:16 AM.

20th October 2020, 07:08 AM	#339
Suddenly No Punting Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Not In Follansbee Posts: 5,478	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Part of me wonders if it's just a grift by his lawyers. Fighting pointless battles racks of billable hours, and Kyle's notoriety among the bloodthirsty right wing means there's no shortage of donations coming into the legal defense fund. Maybe you're right and it's stalling to try to infect the public with a friendly narrative before the trial, but the involvement of LL Wood screams grift. It can be both. Two birds, etc.

20th October 2020, 10:02 AM	#340
Disbelief Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,163	Originally Posted by webfusion So, until this post of mine, you've never heard of Alex Blaine/Zaminski? OK, fair enough. I noticed throughout this thread you've provided much false and uninformed narrative, starting with post #23. (putting blame on "white supremacists" "undesirables" "Back the Blue bootlicker" and "those looking for an opportunity to commit murder" -- but completely neglecting that the people he shot ALL have violent criminal history, and were glad to fight with cops, and that they and their cohorts clearly decided to take over the streets of Kenosha to cause pain and property losses to the community. In other words, sociopaths. Using BLM as cover for their own violent tendencies and anarchist agendas). In post #87, you mentioned "Unless there's some evidence showing that the two men were attacking Rittenhouse as accomplices..." --- there is video evidence of exactly that. Their scheme was to isolate Kyle, take his weapon, turn it on him and leave the young man for dead in the car lot. That plan of theirs almost succeeded, actually. Only the well-trained-in AR15-operations Rittenhouse was able to thwart this effort to end his life. Within that same post, you offered "It's a big leap to assume the pistol shot was in hostility to Rittenhouse." Leaping lizards! Oh, and one last thing, regarding the second scene down the street, as Kyle fled towards the Police forces arrayed at the end of the street. Gaige Grosskreuz KNEW that Kyle was going to the Police and turn himself over to them. How did he KNOW? He asked him, and Kyle responded directly while he was headed in that direction (I don't have a link to that video segment live-streamed by Gaige himself, but no matter, it's out there for anyone truly interested). Once Kyle ended up on the ground, Gaige decided to "cranium him" and his only regret was not emptying his clip into Kyle right then and there. From a legal standpoint (self-defense) the question is whether he held a 'reasonable belief' that he was in danger of serious injury from Rosenbaum (or Huber, or Grosskreuz). More and more, the answer to that is a resounding YES. Oh, and in Post #94, you noted: "Every second that Kyle was on the streets armed was unlawful." So too, the armed presence of several of his antagonists, who were clearly very interested in violence and killing someone. I did not see ANY intent on the part of Kyle Rittenhouse (or any of his fellow Kenosha Guard armed security force) to go into Kenosha with the idea to hunt people or aim to kill anyone. While guys like Zaminski did. That's some serious fan fiction right there.
Disbelief Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,163	__________________ Zensmack (LastChild, Laughing Assassin, RazetheFlag, Wastrel, TruthbyDecree) - Working his way up the sock puppet chain, trying to overtake P'Doh. Or, are they the same? Quote me where I said conspiracists use evidence. - mchapman

20th October 2020, 03:25 PM	#341
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,010	Originally Posted by Disbelief That's some serious fan fiction right there. This guy was brandishing a handgun all night long. This guy has prior convictions. This guy is a black biker gang member. He stood right next to JoJo (pink shirt) as he ranted and raved "Shoot me, N^gga" and smiled with an evil grin at the camera.
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,010	Last edited by webfusion; 20th October 2020 at 05:23 PM.

20th October 2020, 03:27 PM	#342
Ron Obvious Muse Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 950	Is there a better picture? Looks more like a phone to me.
Ron Obvious Muse Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 950

20th October 2020, 03:28 PM	#343
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 26,118	Originally Posted by webfusion This guy is a black biker gang member. He looks white to me.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

20th October 2020, 05:15 PM	#344
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,010	Originally Posted by Ron Obvious Is there a better picture? Looks more like a phone to me. Yeah, there are plenty of video screen grabs with better quality (and different angles of this thug mingling with JoJo and the rest of the mob). However, I assure you he did not shoot towards Kyle running-away-from-JoJo with a phone. Hope that helps. For William Parcher -- "He looks white to me." Yep. Look up the coterie of Sin City Disciples.
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,010	Last edited by webfusion; 20th October 2020 at 05:16 PM.

20th October 2020, 05:48 PM	#345
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 7,051	Originally Posted by William Parcher He looks white to me. Where's the picture of him?
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 7,051

20th October 2020, 07:55 PM	#346
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 26,118	Originally Posted by Elagabalus Where's the picture of him? Post #341.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

20th October 2020, 08:00 PM	#347
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 7,051	Originally Posted by William Parcher Post #341. It linked me to a white mountain man looking dude. Is that him?
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 7,051

20th October 2020, 08:28 PM	#348
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,010	Let me rephrase it --- he is not an African American, he is a Caucasian man who belongs to a predominantly African American outlaw biker group called the 1%'ers. I have a legal question -- since he fired the first shot out there in the car lot, even though he was not directly in proximity & engaging Kyle face-to-face, would that have any bearing on the defense case?
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,010

24th October 2020, 01:41 PM	#349
Gulliver Foyle Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Cork baaaiii Posts: 1,320	Originally Posted by Ron Obvious Is there a better picture? Looks more like a phone to me. Both photos look heavily and very badly photoshopped.

24th October 2020, 02:46 PM	#350
carrps Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 263	Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle Both photos look heavily and very badly photoshopped. Hah. Look at that index finger on the gun. Totally 'shopped.
carrps Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 263

25th October 2020, 05:42 AM	#351
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,010	CamoPants guy was holding/displaying his weapon at various points througout the night; admitted to Police that he fired a 'warning shot' (?) as Kyle ran across the parking lot evading the pursuing JoJo; his identity was first reported as 'Alex Blaine' and later (using his tattoos as reference) revealed to be one Joshua Ziminski, 1%'er biker. I am skeptical of anyone now saying that these pictures (and the video it was captured from) are inaccurate or 'faked' to insert a gun into his hand. It would be YOUR requirement to provide evidence of that claim regarding these and other photos. Nevermind, don't waste your time: CamoPantsGuy had a gun, he discharged it in the direction of Kyle and JoJo in the car lot, and yes, he was out there alongside JoJo earlier (which only added to the valid fears Kyle had regarding the need to protect his own life with the AR15 once JoJo started chasing him and attempting to steal the rifle, with CamoPantsGuy opening fire from behind).
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,010

25th October 2020, 09:42 AM	#352
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: In the Troll Ignoring Section Posts: 21,971	Originally Posted by webfusion CamoPants guy was holding/displaying his weapon at various points througout the night; admitted to Police that he fired a 'warning shot' (?) as Kyle ran across the parking lot evading the pursuing JoJo; his identity was first reported as 'Alex Blaine' and later (using his tattoos as reference) revealed to be one Joshua Ziminski, 1%'er biker. I am skeptical of anyone now saying that these pictures (and the video it was captured from) are inaccurate or 'faked' to insert a gun into his hand. It would be YOUR requirement to provide evidence of that claim regarding these and other photos. Nevermind, don't waste your time: CamoPantsGuy had a gun, he discharged it in the direction of Kyle and JoJo in the car lot, and yes, he was out there alongside JoJo earlier (which only added to the valid fears Kyle had regarding the need to protect his own life with the AR15 once JoJo started chasing him and attempting to steal the rifle, with CamoPantsGuy opening fire from behind). And all that still changes nothing from Ky-Ky's standpoint. Hearing a gunshot from somewhere behind you during a riot does not grant you license to kill. Rittenhouse was running around alone with a high powered rifle during a riot, that he went out of his way to insert himself into. That is arguably provocation, on it's own. He was not passing through on his way home, or protecting his property. He went far out of his way to arm himself and willingly insert himself into a violent mob. Since he has no law enforcement powers, JoJo and others could arguably see him as a deadly provocateur. This is by no means an easy one, in any event. But to see it as an open-and-s hut case of anything is childishly simplistic. No matter which side you favor, the legal ambiguity should be clear.
	__________________ "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet

26th October 2020, 07:25 AM	#353
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Originally Posted by Thermal And all that still changes nothing from Ky-Ky's standpoint. Hearing a gunshot from somewhere behind you during a riot does not grant you license to kill. Rittenhouse was running around alone with a high powered rifle during a riot, that he went out of his way to insert himself into. That is arguably provocation, on it's own. He was not passing through on his way home, or protecting his property. He went far out of his way to arm himself and willingly insert himself into a violent mob. Since he has no law enforcement powers, JoJo and others could arguably see him as a deadly provocateur. This is by no means an easy one, in any event. But to see it as an open-and-s hut case of anything is childishly simplistic. No matter which side you favor, the legal ambiguity should be clear. That's my take too. Someone firing a warning shot is probably fair game for lethal self defense in response, but the guy shooting isn't the one Kyle killed. The conspiracy theorists are trying to gin up that they were "accomplices", but there's no evidence that they were working in any kind of coordination beyond being at the same protest. That's thin gravy. It's a bit ironic claiming that some guy popping a round off in the air nearby is justification to open fire when the person has specifically chosen to violate a riot curfew in order to play vigilante. The case could be made that every single person out that night, including Kyle, was in violation of the curfew order and thus breaking the law from the start. I wonder if such a consideration will come into play for any self-defense claim.
	Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 26th October 2020 at 07:26 AM.

30th October 2020, 04:10 PM	#354
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Rittenhouse extradited. Quote: An Illinois judge on Friday denied Kyle Rittenhouse's request for release and ordered him extradited to Wisconsin, where he faces homicide charges in Kenosha County. He was transported to Kenosha County Jail on Friday afternoon, a sheriff's spokesman said. News that should shock nobody that reads even marginally credible coverage of this case, or has a rudimentary knowledge of the US legal process. Quote: The records describe Rittenhouse going through cycles of calm, then crying and vomiting as he told Antioch police he had "ended a life." Genuine remorse or just a murderer realizing he likely will spend the rest of his natural life in prison? https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/...or/6085295002/

30th October 2020, 11:24 PM	#355
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,010	https://www.scribd.com/document/4822...enhouse-ruling Full text of Judge Paul Novak's ruling. This case now moves back into Kenosha for a media circus. Wouldn't surprise me if it's much like the OJ trial.
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,010