Continuation The behaviour of US police officers - part 2

[SuburbanTurkey]

Originally Posted by Belz...

Well, I'm glad I live in Canada.

Quote:

The Saskatoon freezing deaths were a series of three confirmed deaths of Indigenous Canadians in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan in the early 2000s. Their deaths were caused by members of the Saskatoon Police Service who would arrest Indigenous people, usually men, for alleged drunkenness and/or disorderly behaviour, without cause at times.[1] The Saskatoon Police officers would then drive them to the outskirts of the city at night in the winter, take their clothing, and abandon them, leaving them stranded in sub-zero temperatures.[2]

The practice was known as taking Indigenous people for "starlight tours"[3] and dates back to 1976.[4] As of 2021, despite convictions for related offences, no Saskatoon police officer has been convicted specifically for having caused freezing deaths.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths

Wow that one case certainly proves that Canada's just as bad as the US. Nicely done.

[pgwenthold]

Originally Posted by Belz...

It's policy to shoot suicidal people?

Well it sure cuts to the chase.

There was a case in NY I think a few years ago where a cop was trying to talk down a guy threatening to shoot himself. He had been talking with the guy for like 15 minutes when two guys arrived on backup, and within 30 seconds they had shot and killed the guy. Because, you know, he had a gun in his hand.

As a result, the guy that was there first was fired from the police force for failing to shoot the guy sooner and thereby putting the backup officers in danger when they arrived.

I am not joking. They called him a coward and a bad cop because he did not kill a guy who was threatening suicide.

And it stuck. He never got his job back.

I have said many times, this is a problem with defund the police. If they do that, who is going to kill those people who are threatening to commit suicide?

[deadrose]

Ask how Robert Pickton got away with his serial killings for so long? Being First Nations in Canada is dangerous, almost as dangerous as being Black in the US.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

There was a case in NY I think a few years ago where a cop was trying to talk down a guy threatening to shoot himself. He had been talking with the guy for like 15 minutes when two guys arrived on backup, and within 30 seconds they had shot and killed the guy. Because, you know, he had a gun in his hand.

As a result, the guy that was there first was fired from the police force for failing to shoot the guy sooner and thereby putting the backup officers in danger when they arrived.

I am not joking. They called him a coward and a bad cop because he did not kill a guy who was threatening suicide.

And it stuck. He never got his job back.

I have said many times, this is a problem with defund the police. If they do that, who is going to kill those people who are threatening to commit suicide?

[gnome]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

My buddy said if an officer complained to Internal Affairs about a commander suggesting the officer issue false moving violation summons, it wouldn't go anywhere but the lieutenant would be informed of the accusation. The retaliation would come in things like assignments or time off requests. One issue he mentioned was an officer wanting to switch shifts with another officer. Or ask for emergency leave for a family emergency. Say the officer's father, who is retired and living in Arizona, has a heart attack. Not expected to make it.

Those requests have to be approved by the unit commander, in this case the patrol lieutenant. The lieutenant wouldn't turn them down but -- in typical organizational fashion -- he just wouldn't respond. Claim, "I never got it."

It creeps me a good deal how likely none of us from the US, including myself, find this surprising or shocking. It's been that thoroughly normalized.

[ponderingturtle]

Originally Posted by Belz...

Wow that one case certainly proves that Canada's just as bad as the US. Nicely done.

Well organized premeditated murder by the police as a mater of procedure is pretty bad even for US police departments.

[ponderingturtle]

Originally Posted by deadrose

Ask how Robert Pickton got away with his serial killings for so long? Being First Nations in Canada is dangerous, almost as dangerous as being Black in the US.

Native in the US is worse than Black in the US for at least some victimhood of crimes.

[mgidm86]

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Native in the US is worse than Black in the US for at least some victimhood of crimes.

I'm a US native and wonder what you mean. Oh, I'm white!

I recently looked up why in the TV show "Longmire" that the term Native American was not uttered once (that I recall). They strictly used "Indian". Indian casino, Indian res, Indian buriel ground....

The author of the books said that his Indian friends teased him when he used that term, telling him, "Are you not native American as well?"

That's what he said anyways, while also elaborating that they have a strong sense of humor and irony.

Maybe he's full of it, could be, so here's a link:
https://www.geaugamapleleaf.com/news...ng-ranch-life/

I disagree with your statement. Indians can just say they're Mexican and fake it Kinda like how I say I'm Canadian when I go overseas. Humor.

[Aridas]

Originally Posted by deadrose

Ask how Robert Pickton got away with his serial killings for so long? Being First Nations in Canada is dangerous, almost as dangerous as being Black in the US.

ponderingturtle beat me to it a bit, but... Native Americans in the US are at quite a bit of risk, as a general matter.

For example -

Quote:

Native American women have the highest rates of violent crime victimization, more than double that of other racial groups.[68] In the violent acts committed against Native women, Native American women are more likely to have injuries that require medical attention than crimes committed against other races. They are also more likely to face an armed assailant than female victims of violent acts of other races.[69] On a number of Native American reservations Native Women are murdered at a rate representing ten times the national average. Violent crime rates over all on Native American reservations are 2.5 times the national average while some individual reservations reach 20 times the national average of violent crime.[69]

On the police front -

Quote:

Even when sexual assaults are reported to the authorities, prosecution is not certain. According to a study by Amnesty International in 2006, the local police often either do not respond to a sexual assault case or take hours or days to respond to the victims reports.[68] Additionally due to the overlapping jurisdiction of tribal, state, and federal authorities, enforcement of protection orders for victims remains largely unreliable. Tension between these three groups hinders responsiveness and efficiency in the prosecution of sexual offenders and the protection of the victims.[71]

[The Common Potato]

Originally Posted by jimbob

Meanwhile in the UK

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...droidApp_Other

Merseyside Police arrested and charged the four cops

Ouch! I lived in Ainsdale about 40 years ago.

[Armitage72]

Originally Posted by mgidm86

The author of the books said that his Indian friends teased him when he used that term, telling him, "Are you not native American as well?"

That strikes me as similar to "Why do you need a hot water heater? Hot water is already hot." Examining each word individually while ignoring the context and phrase as a whole to try to sound clever.

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by Armitage72

That strikes me as similar to "Why do you need a hot water heater? Hot water is already hot." Examining each word individually while ignoring the context and phrase as a whole to try to sound clever.

It would have been quicker to type "The primary character trait of 99% of this board."

[crescent]

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

There was a case in NY I think a few years ago where a cop was trying to talk down a guy threatening to shoot himself. He had been talking with the guy for like 15 minutes when two guys arrived on backup, and within 30 seconds they had shot and killed the guy. Because, you know, he had a gun in his hand.

As a result, the guy that was there first was fired from the police force for failing to shoot the guy sooner and thereby putting the backup officers in danger when they arrived.

I am not joking. They called him a coward and a bad cop because he did not kill a guy who was threatening suicide.

And it stuck. He never got his job back.

I have said many times, this is a problem with defund the police. If they do that, who is going to kill those people who are threatening to commit suicide?

True. Here's some articles documenting it:

Police Officer Wins Settlement From City That Fired Him for Not Shooting a Black Man

Quote:

In that moment, Mader did not see a man with a gun. He saw a human being in crisis. Mader deduced that Williams was not what he might appear — a danger to others and to a responding officer alike. Mader saw that Williams was trying to commit “suicide by cop.”

Rather than shoot, Mader returned to his military training and attempted to de-escalate the situation. He softened his voice, looked Williams in the eye, and said, “I’m not going to shoot you, brother. I’m not going to shoot you.” With those words, Officer Mader connected to the humanity of Williams, a man in deep distress.

While Mader continued his attempt to convince Williams to drop his weapon, two other officers arrived on the scene. In a matter of seconds, one of the newly arrived officers fired four shots, killing Williams. It was at that point the officers discovered that Williams’ gun was unloaded. Stephen Mader was correct. R.J. Williams was not a threat, but it didn’t matter. He was dead.

Weeks later, the Weirton Police Department fired Stephen Mader.

Much longer writeup here:

I DON’T WANT TO SHOOT YOU, BROTHER”

[Darat]

Not surprising he was fired - he thought his military training was appropriate in the war zone of urban USA!

[pgwenthold]

Originally Posted by crescent

True. Here's some articles documenting it:

Police Officer Wins Settlement From City That Fired Him for Not Shooting a Black Man


Much longer writeup here:

I DON’T WANT TO SHOOT YOU, BROTHER”

I'm more about this part:

Quote:

[The police chief] had concluded that the young officer had frozen in a life-and-death moment. He had determined that Mader, in not eliminating what he said was the threat posed by Williams, had put the lives of fellow officers at risk. Kuzma, the officer who had killed Williams, thought Mader should have shot him first.

The only "threat" made by the victim (Williams) was to commit suicide. And, in fact, his gun wasn't even loaded. He wasn't a threat to anyone.

Quote:

Mader’s actions at 119 Marie Ave. in May 2016 had instantly become the subject of analysis and gossip among the ranks of the tiny department. The word “coward” was being tossed around. Kuzma and Baker had taken the remarkable step of asking Alexander in writing never to assign them to work again with Mader. Two other members of the force signed on as well, and the memo was quietly slid under the chief’s door.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

I'm more about this part:



The only "threat" made by the victim (Williams) was to commit suicide. And, in fact, his gun wasn't even loaded. He wasn't a threat to anyone.

No, you don't get it. He posed a hypothetical threat to the lives the police officers; the most important lives, which must be protected at all costs in the strongest way possible.

[Disbelief]

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

There was a case in NY I think a few years ago where a cop was trying to talk down a guy threatening to shoot himself. He had been talking with the guy for like 15 minutes when two guys arrived on backup, and within 30 seconds they had shot and killed the guy. Because, you know, he had a gun in his hand.

As a result, the guy that was there first was fired from the police force for failing to shoot the guy sooner and thereby putting the backup officers in danger when they arrived.

I am not joking. They called him a coward and a bad cop because he did not kill a guy who was threatening suicide.

And it stuck. He never got his job back.

I have said many times, this is a problem with defund the police. If they do that, who is going to kill those people who are threatening to commit suicide?

It was West Virginia and he settled a lawsuit.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ettles-lawsuit

[Bob001]

Originally Posted by Disbelief

It was West Virginia and he settled a lawsuit.
....

"It was in West Virginia....," much like "It was in Florida....," is really all that needs be said.

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by Belz...

No, you don't get it. He posed a hypothetical threat to the lives the police officers; the most important lives, which must be protected at all costs in the strongest way possible.

It becomes clearer once you realize all the terrible things the black guy could have done in an alternative timeline where the cop didn't shoot him. In fact if we need them listed I think I know I guy...

[autumn1971]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

It would have been quicker to type "The primary character trait of 99% of this board."

Well actually, since there are a good deal of lurkers who never take an active role in the discussion, I find your numbers, and therefore your argument, to be totally invalid

[Bob001]

Another cop excuse: People die just because they're black.

Quote:

Sickle cell trait has been cited in dozens of police custody deaths ruled accidental or natural, even though the condition is benign on its own, a Times investigation found.

https://news.yahoo.com/genetic-trait...164259549.html

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Bob001

Another cop excuse: People die just because they're black.

https://news.yahoo.com/genetic-trait...164259549.html

[pgwenthold]

I don't know the race of the person who owned the car in this video, but I don't care.

Our heroic men in blue!

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Protect and serve? Nah, I'll just be a douchebag.

[JoeMorgue]

Police unions shift stance on protecting bad officers

CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/17/us/po...int/index.html

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Police unions shift stance on protecting bad officers

CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/17/us/po...int/index.html

I'll believe it when I see it. Talk is cheap.

[SuburbanTurkey]

Police unions are inherently reactive. I could see a change like this happening if it became clear that police misconduct carried a decent risk of prosecution.

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by Belz...

I'll believe it when I see it. Talk is cheap.

Same.

I'll to Google around and find it but one the Unions sent out a notice to its members and when stripped away all the flowery language and legal speak it essentially said "We recommend you at least put some attempt into trying to maybe at some point in the future consider starting to think about maybe not breaking the law."

[lomiller]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Police unions shift stance on protecting bad officers

CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/17/us/po...int/index.html

Quote:

Floyd's death last May brought renewed attention to the idea of "active bystanders," a relatively new concept in law enforcement which calls for officers to intervene when they see wrongdoing. Other industries and trade unions have developed industry- or union-specific programs aimed at achieving the same goal: teaching colleagues to intervene when they see another worker behaving poorly or making mistakes.

This sounds good until you start to get into the details of what they consider a mistake. As long as "shoot at the first sign of disobedience" is the norm this policy won't help and could make things worse.

[Matthew Best]

How US police training compares with the rest of the world

More people are killed by police in the US than in any other developed country, and there are growing calls for improved training to reduce the use of lethal force.

We've looked into what training US police officers receive, and how it compares with other parts of the world.

[tyr_13]

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

I'm more about this part:



The only "threat" made by the victim (Williams) was to commit suicide. And, in fact, his gun wasn't even loaded. He wasn't a threat to anyone.

You have to understand their mindset. It is much like the standard 'conservative' in the US.

This cop stood up and tried to help someone without using a firearm. The other cops used their firearms to kill someone. In their eyes, this makes him the coward. Helping people when you could just use force means, to them, that you're too cowardly or weak to use violence to enforce your will. You see the people as peers who might need help, when they think you should see them as lesser than you because of your 'power'. The only reason to help people is to glorify yourself.

Their values are abhorrent.

[Bob001]

New Jersey cop arrested for running meth lab.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...stopher-walls/

[TheGoldcountry]

Originally Posted by Belz...

I'll believe it when I see it. Talk is cheap.

Yeah. My first response was immediately "ok, whatever." Doesn't inspire a lot of enthusiasm.

[Delphic Oracle]

More frequent and higher profile cases are straining some police union budgets and that translates into very real animosity in the ranks at the bad ones squandering away money that could be in the collective retirement benefits pool.

A lot of unions get some compensation from the city for that. If the city has proper procedures and can demonstrate discipline for known infractions, they should be able to put the whole cost back on the officer/union.

Similar solution to firearms insurance. Dumb gun owners cost all gun owners more money. Now good gun owners have an incentive to smack bad gun owners upside the head (ok, I can see why that's troublesome, but my point stands).

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

How US police training compares with the rest of the world

More people are killed by police in the US than in any other developed country, and there are growing calls for improved training to reduce the use of lethal force.

We've looked into what training US police officers receive, and how it compares with other parts of the world.

We also need better screening and selection. All the training in the world can't fix the fact that we don't do a good enough job of weeding out the bullies psychopaths.

[SuburbanTurkey]

What do you want the police to do, investigate crimes?

Quote:

Moments after escaping serial killer Bruce McArthur on a warm June night in 2016, a male victim placed a frantic 911 call, describing how a consensual sexual encounter had suddenly turned into a fight for his life.

“He grabbed me by the throat, and put my arms behind my back,” the man told the 911 dispatcher, after he’d gotten into his car and began giving chase to a fleeing McArthur. “He tried to strangle me.”

The harrowing 911 call from June 20, 2016, was played for the first time at the Toronto police disciplinary tribunal Tuesday, where Sgt. Paul Gauthier — the officer who investigated the victim’s complaint and swiftly cleared McArthur — faces charges stemming from his investigation.

Gauthier has pleaded not guilty to one count each of insubordination and neglect of duty.

The 2016 incident happened 19 months before McArthur was arrested and eventually convicted of murdering eight men with ties to Toronto’s Gay Village between 2010 to 2017. The incident was the second time the serial killer came onto police radar in the midst of his killing spree; after Gauthier released McArthur, he murdered two more men, Selim Esen and Andrew Kinsman.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/202...utor-says.html

[SuburbanTurkey]

Quote:

PHILADELPHIA DISTRICT ATTORNEY LARRY KRASNER TROUNCES POLICE-BACKED PRIMARY CHALLENGER

Krasner’s victory gives momentum to the movement to elect reformist prosecutors, which has faced fierce backlash from law enforcement groups.

FOUR YEARS INTO his experiment with reforming Philadelphia’s criminal justice system, Larry Krasner overwhelmingly won his primary race for reelection to the office of district attorney on Tuesday.

By late Tuesday night, Krasner was leading his Democratic primary challenger Carlos Vega by a nearly 2-1 margin, with about 117,000 votes counted. Vega conceded the race shortly before midnight, and Krasner is all but assured victory in the November general election.

“We in this movement for criminal justice reform just won a big one,” Krasner said in a victory speech. “Four years ago, we promised reform, and a focus on serious crime. People believed what were, at that point, ideas. Promises. And they voted us into office with a mandate. We kept those promises. They saw what we did. And they put us back in office because of what we’ve done.”

Vega, a former homicide prosecutor who was one of 31 staffers Krasner fired during his first week as district attorney, had run a campaign attacking Krasner’s policies as soft on crime and was boosted by one of the largest expenditures from the city’s police union in more than a decade.

https://theintercept.com/2021/05/18/...-philadelphia/

Piggie candidate gets trounced by progressive prosecutor. You love to see it.

[bonzombiekitty]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

https://theintercept.com/2021/05/18/...-philadelphia/

Piggie candidate gets trounced by progressive prosecutor. You love to see it.

IIRC, the Philadelphia Inquirer asked Vega a bunch of questions and how he would do things differently than Krasner. He wouldn't say which of Krasners policies he would get rid of, what he'd change, etc. Vega's platform essentially boiled down to "I am physically not Larry Krasner". The Inquirer opted to endorse Krasner.

[SuburbanTurkey]

Cops and domestic violence, name a more iconic duo.

Quote:

A Boston police sergeant was arrested on an assault and battery charge and has been ordered by a judge to stay away from his wife and children, the Norfolk district attorney’s office said.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/05/...flow%3Atwitter

Quote:

Prosecutors asked for Dunford to be required to wear a GPS monitoring device and to surrender his firearms. The judge denied both requests.

Of course. How's this guy gonna kill his wife if they take his gun?

[SuburbanTurkey]

Another mysterious cardiac arrest for a black man in police custody. Ronald Greene died in police custody after being savagely beaten and left face down in restraint. This occurred in 2019, but press is only now successful in getting the video released.

Be warned, the article contains graphic video that shows the police viciously abusing the deceased.

Quote:

Louisiana state troopers were captured on body camera video stunning, punching and dragging a Black man as he apologized for leading them on a high-speed chase -- footage of the man’s last moments alive that The Associated Press obtained after authorities refused to release it for two years.

“I’m your brother! I’m scared! I’m scared!” Ronald Greene can be heard telling the white troopers as the unarmed man is jolted repeatedly with a stun gun before he even gets out of his car along a dark, rural road.

The 2019 arrest outside Monroe, Louisiana, is the subject of a federal civil rights investigation. But unlike other in-custody deaths across the nation where body camera video was released almost immediately, Greene’s case has been shrouded in secrecy and accusations of a cover-up.

https://apnews.com/article/ronald-gr...dd72b269826f7a

Quote:

Greene wails “I’m sorry!” as another trooper delivers another stun gun shock to his backside and warns, “Look, you’re going to get it again if you don’t put your f---—- hands behind your back!” Another trooper can be seen briefly dragging the man facedown after his legs had been shackled and his hands cuffed behind him.

Instead of rendering aid, the troopers leave the heavyset man unattended, facedown and moaning for more than nine minutes, as they use sanitizer wipes to wash blood off their hands and faces.

“I hope this guy ain’t got f------ AIDS,” one of the troopers can be heard saying.