Continuation The behaviour of US police officers - part 2

[SuburbanTurkey]

Quote:

Chicago Cop Who Fatally Shot Anthony Alvarez Being Investigated For Pulling Gun In Logan Square Road Rage Clash
Videos show officer Evan Solano confront the driver of a white SUV with his gun out. The Police Department's Bureau of Internal Affairs is investigating the May 21 incident.

Cop being investigated for pulling a pistol during a road rage confrontation.

https://blockclubchicago.org/2021/05...ad-rage-clash/

[Captain_Swoop]

Can't read it in the UK, WNEP blocks us.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Can't read it in the UK, WNEP blocks us.

I can for some reason.

The usual level of truthfulness from Solano it seems:

Quote:

Solano is seen out of his car with his gun drawn, prompting the driver of the white SUV to back away with his hands up, videos show.

The driver shouts, “Dude, I have no weapon. I did not touch you!”

Solano yells back, “You threatened me with that knife!”

The driver says, “No, I did not!”

Sanchez, who witnessed the incident, said the driver had a knife attached to his leg, but he did not remove it or reference it at any point during the argument.

I suppose that he should be commended for his restraint given that no-one is dead as a result of this incident.

[SuburbanTurkey]

Police lied to justify use of excessive force on anti-police violence protest crowd. Imagine my shock.

Quote:

Breaking: Oakland Police Chief Armstrong said at a press conference today that his claims that protesters were preparing Molotov cocktails at last year’s 6/1 George Floyd protest were wrong. Police weren’t justified in using tear gas and rubber bullets on protesters.

https://twitter.com/DarwinBondGraha/...71592064241666

Quote:

Oakland Police Chief LeRonne Armstrong apologized at a press conference today for sharing false information about his department’s response to last year’s George Floyd protests.

But the main subject of the press conference was the OPD’s finding that over 20 officers violated department policies last year when they fired tear gas and arrested protesters during the tumultuous four-day period from May 29 through June 1.

OPD’s announcement follows news that Oakland’s civilian-led Police Commission investigators (who conduct parallel investigations into allegations of misconduct) are also recommending officers be disciplined for last year’s protest crackdown.

Armstrong declined to say how many officers are facing discipline, but he disclosed that his internal affairs investigators sustained 35 allegations of misconduct. A “sustained” finding means that evidence shows an officer violated department policy and should be punished. Armstrong said that some officers were sustained for multiple violations. Oakland Mayor Libby Schaaf told KTVU this morning that more than two dozen officers will be disciplined.

https://oaklandside.org/2021/06/02/o...olated-policy/

The public demanded police accountability and the cops responded by rioting in the streets.

[Belz...]

Is he going to resign?

[SuburbanTurkey]

Originally Posted by Belz...

Is he going to resign?

Lol no.

[Belz...]

Yeah it was a rhetorical question.

[Armitage72]

It's not on the level of murder and assault, but it was almost 40 years ago.
Back in the early 1980s, my older brother joined the Air Force straight out of high school. He eventually started dating a woman he met in the first city he was stationed in. I remember my mother asking the state police officer who lived across the street from us at the time if he could contact the police in that state to run a background check on her and report any problems to my mother, and he did. Blatant invasion of privacy is no big deal when an overprotective mother is involved, I guess.

[Matthew Best]

Originally Posted by Belz...

Yeah it was a rhetorical question.

What's the point of rhetorical questions?

[SuburbanTurkey]

Originally Posted by Armitage72

It's not on the level of murder and assault, but it was almost 40 years ago.
Back in the early 1980s, my older brother joined the Air Force straight out of high school. He eventually started dating a woman he met in the first city he was stationed in. I remember my mother asking the state police officer who lived across the street from us at the time if he could contact the police in that state to run a background check on her and report any problems to my mother, and he did. Blatant invasion of privacy is no big deal when an overprotective mother is involved, I guess.

Interesting coincidence, because a cop illegally accessing confidential records was the case that recently ended with SCOTUS ruling that the Computer Fraud and Abuse act is unconstitutionally broad.

Critical support for cops abusing their authority, if it means excessively punitive laws are curtailed.

Quote:

The 6-3 decision handed down Thursday means federal prosecutors can no longer use the 1986 Computer Fraud and Abuse Act to charge people who misused databases they are otherwise entitled to access. The ruling comes six months after justices expressed concern that the government’s sweeping interpretation of the law could place people in jeopardy for activities as mundane as checking social media on their work computers, with Justice Neil Gorsuch saying prosecutors’ view risked “making a federal criminal of us all.”


...

The case decided on Thursday, Van Buren v. United States, involved a former police officer convicted of violating the CFAA for searching a license plate database in exchange for a bribe as part of an FBI sting operation. The officer appealed the conviction, arguing that the law did not cover the unauthorized use of a computer system that the user was allowed to access as part of his job.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...ime-law-491764

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

What's the point of rhetorical questions?

Look it up in a dictionary.

[Matthew Best]

Originally Posted by Belz...

Look it up in a dictionary.

(There was no need to answer that question.)

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

(There was no need to answer that question.)

In my defense, it's 7:45 in the morning.

[quadraginta]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

What's the point of rhetorical questions?

Rhetoric.

Duh.

[SuburbanTurkey]

Cop shoots wife, has gun taken during 9 month investigation, gets gun back and promptly finishes the job of murdering his then ex-wife who had a restraining order against him.

Quote:

HOOVER, Alabama — Late one night in February 2019, a 31-year-old woman in a troubled marriage was rushed to an emergency room in a Birmingham, Alabama, suburb, with a gunshot wound in her upper right arm.

"He shot me," Megan Montgomery told doctors, according to an investigative report obtained exclusively by NBC News. By "he," she meant her husband, a local police officer named Jason McIntosh.

Police took her husband’s pistol away. Nine months later, the state’s top law enforcement agency gave it back, despite pending domestic violence charges and an active protective order. Just 16 days after that, he used the gun to shoot and kill her during another late-night dispute.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-c...m_npd_nn_tw_ma

Friends don't let friends date cops.

[SuburbanTurkey]

Quote:

Cop Flips Pregnant Woman's Car While She Tries To Pull Over Safely
An Arkansas State Police trooper used a PIT maneuver on a woman who had allegedly been speeding

https://jalopnik.com/cop-flips-pregn...&ICID=ref_fark

Arkansas state troopers used a pit maneuver, sending the woman's car careening into a concrete barrier and flipping her vehicle.

The woman claims she wanted to exit the high speed freeway, which had a very narrow shoulder edged by a concrete wall, before stopping for her speeding ticket. She had reduced speed and turned on her hazard flashers once the cop had turned on his lights and sirens, but the Arkansas State police still decided to use the high risk maneuver.

There's dashcam footage of the incident, and it's pretty obvious that the woman was not attempting to flee this traffic stop before this wildly reckless use of force was used on her.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

https://jalopnik.com/cop-flips-pregn...&ICID=ref_fark

Arkansas state troopers used a pit maneuver, sending the woman's car careening into a concrete barrier and flipping her vehicle.

The woman claims she wanted to exit the high speed freeway, which had a very narrow shoulder edged by a concrete wall, before stopping for her speeding ticket. She had reduced speed and turned on her hazard flashers once the cop had turned on his lights and sirens, but the Arkansas State police still decided to use the high risk maneuver.

There's dashcam footage of the incident, and it's pretty obvious that the woman was not attempting to flee this traffic stop before this wildly reckless use of force was used on her.

Even if the police officer were entirely correct, was this maneuver really necessary? I doubt she was going 160 trying to flee, and was a danger to others. It's hard to justify.

Very hard.

[erlando]

Originally Posted by Belz...

Even if the police officer were entirely correct, was this maneuver really necessary? I doubt she was going 160 trying to flee, and was a danger to others. It's hard to justify.

Very hard.

The woman was doing everything right according to the "Arkansas Driver License Study Guide" (pdf)

Quote:

Pull over to the right side of the road – activate your turn signal or emergency flashers to indicate to the officer that you are seeking a safe place to stop.

Quite obviously the officer hasn't read that. Or he just wanted to kill someone that day.

[bonzombiekitty]

Originally Posted by Belz...

Even if the police officer were entirely correct, was this maneuver really necessary? I doubt she was going 160 trying to flee, and was a danger to others. It's hard to justify.

Very hard.

One would think cops would prefer you find a safe, well lit spot to pull over off the highway. Forget the person being pulled over, it's safer for the cop too. Particularly at night.

What's safer for the cop? Getting out of their patrol car in a well lit parking lot that allows them to see better into the car they pulled over, don't have traffic flying past at 60+MPH, and is harder for the vehicle they pulled over to just speed off suddenly; or, being on the shoulder of a highway in the dark with fast moving traffic?

You'd think that what this lady did is the exact thing they want all drivers to do all the time.

[ponderingturtle]

Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty

One would think cops would prefer you find a safe, well lit spot to pull over off the highway. Forget the person being pulled over, it's safer for the cop too. Particularly at night.

What's safer for the cop? Getting out of their patrol car in a well lit parking lot that allows them to see better into the car they pulled over, don't have traffic flying past at 60+MPH, and is harder for the vehicle they pulled over to just speed off suddenly; or, being on the shoulder of a highway in the dark with fast moving traffic?

You'd think that what this lady did is the exact thing they want all drivers to do all the time.

But she failed to give instant and unquestioning abidance to the cop and so was found in contempt of cop. She should have behaved in a more respectful manner.

[pgwenthold]

Originally Posted by erlando

The woman was doing everything right according to the "Arkansas Driver License Study Guide" (pdf)



Quite obviously the officer hasn't read that. Or he just wanted to kill someone that day.

If people would just comply with the officer's commands, there wouldn't be any problems, right?

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty

One would think cops would prefer you find a safe, well lit spot to pull over off the highway. Forget the person being pulled over, it's safer for the cop too. Particularly at night.

That's why the whole "Just put yourself in their shoes" argument is no longer working for me (as much anyway) in regards to LEOs.

If I'm a cop and I'm pulling you over and you take the time to pull into a safer spot in a way that you're obviously not stalling or trying to get away (and this woman was obviously doing neither of those things).... I'd be appreciative of that.

[Random]

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

But she failed to give instant and unquestioning abidance to the cop and so was found in contempt of cop. She should have behaved in a more respectful manner.

Exactly. Everyone knows that police officers have the power to challenge anyone to a game of "Simon Says" any time, any place, for any reason, or for no reason, and if you lose the game they are legally allowed to kill you.

[JoeMorgue]

Also it was a bright red minivan. Was it going to get away?

Okay Johnny Bankrobber with 5 active felony warrants who just fled from a North Hollywood shootout level bank robbery in his souped up muscle car and is screaming out the window "You'll never take me alive!"... okay maybe that's worth some risk in stopping him so he doesn't get away.

This... was not that. This was a woman in a minivan who's only crime was a potential speeding violation who had slowed to a crawl and put on her blinkers. The threat vector was low.

[Bob001]

Cops kill drivers, passengers and bystanders with "PIT maneuver." Chllling videos.

Quote:

So far this year, nine people have been killed nationwide in PIT maneuvers, including a 16-year-old who was driving a stolen car in Longmont, Colo., and a driver and passenger who were being chased by police for speeding in Creek County, Okla. Just this month, a 29-year-old suspected drunk driver who fled a traffic stop in Coweta County, Ga., died after a PIT maneuver.

Since 2016 at least 30 people have died, and hundreds have been injured — including some officers — when police used the maneuver to end pursuits, according to an investigation by The Washington Post.

[2020 article] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...line_manual_10

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Bob001

Cops kill drivers, passengers and bystanders with "PIT maneuver." Chllling videos.

[2020 article] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...line_manual_10

The UK use of such methods was questioned after we had several terrible incidents in which people died. These days there are quite a few stages before a high-speed pursuit or other tactics can be used, plus police officers must be trained to engage in such. It especially needs to be a proportionate response, so someone seen jumping a red light is not grounds for a 10 mile high-speed pursuit through a residential area as schools are emptying for the day.

ETA: If you want to see an example of the level of detail in a typical UK police force policies for vehicle pursuits: https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/...e_vehicles.pdf

[Captain_Swoop]

You don't need to be stopped in the UK for a moving traffic offence. If it is inconvenient to stop a car they will just issue a 'Section 172 Notice' This is a request to identify the driver at a given time and location. It is usually combined with a 'Notice of intended prosecution'
It has to be issued within 14 days of the offence and replied to within 28 days.
Failure to reply is a separate offence carrying a higher penalty than most moving traffic offences.

[Bob001]

Originally Posted by Darat

The UK use of such methods was questioned after we had several terrible incidents in which people died. These days there are quite a few stages before a high-speed pursuit or other tactics can be used, plus police officers must be trained to engage in such. It especially needs to be a proportionate response, so someone seen jumping a red light is not grounds for a 10 mile high-speed pursuit through a residential area as schools are emptying for the day.

ETA: If you want to see an example of the level of detail in a typical UK police force policies for vehicle pursuits: https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/...e_vehicles.pdf

Note that this isn't just a high-speed pursuit. U.S. cops routinely chase drivers pedal-to-the-metal at the slightest provocation. The PIT maneuver is a deliberate collision, where the cop tries to run the car off the road.

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by Bob001

Note that this isn't just a high-speed pursuit. U.S. cops routinely chase drivers pedal-to-the-metal at the slightest provocation. The PIT maneuver is a deliberate collision, where the cop tries to run the car off the road.

It might be nice if the police tried some basic police work and just knocked on the door the next morning.

[bonzombiekitty]

Police in Ocean City, MD taze someone who wasn't resisting. He's given conflicting instructions by three different officers. One telling him not to move, another telling him to get on the ground, another telling him to take off his backpack. He starts to take off his backpack and gets tazed.

His crime? Violating a no vaping on the boardwalk ordinance.

https://twitter.com/DrRJKavanagh/sta...20794096455684

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Craig4

It might be nice if the police tried some basic police work and just knocked on the door the next morning.

I remember many years ago, driving back to our home town after a two-day congress near Ottawa... and on the highway we were passed by a racer bike who must've been doing over 200kph, followed by a police cruiser.

Of course the police never engaged in dangerous tactics, and never caught the bike... until a couple of hours later when he got home and found that the police were waiting for him there.

Oops.

[SuburbanTurkey]

Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty

Police in Ocean City, MD taze someone who wasn't resisting. He's given conflicting instructions by three different officers. One telling him not to move, another telling him to get on the ground, another telling him to take off his backpack. He starts to take off his backpack and gets tazed.

His crime? Violating a no vaping on the boardwalk ordinance.

https://twitter.com/DrRJKavanagh/sta...20794096455684

I recall getting a lot of flack when I suggested Biden's proposed ban on menthols cigarettes would only result in a bigger target being painted on the black community.

This is what it means to criminalize petty behaviors in the US. It means cops will use obscene force for even the mildest breaches of public order. Until this country can get our unhinged police forces back under control, we should be extremely conservative about what should or should not be made illegal.

[Captain_Swoop]

Lots of people posting that he reached back with his hand and could have been going for a gun so the cops were justified. He's lucky they showed restraint and just tased him.

I don't see a vape pen anywhere in the video.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty

Police in Ocean City, MD taze someone who wasn't resisting. He's given conflicting instructions by three different officers. One telling him not to move, another telling him to get on the ground, another telling him to take off his backpack. He starts to take off his backpack and gets tazed.

I've said this before but it baffles me why police departments don't have a designated "yeller" in those situations, so that a single person yells a single, simple order to follow.

[SuburbanTurkey]

Originally Posted by Belz...

I've said this before but it baffles me why police departments don't have a designated "yeller" in those situations, so that a single person yells a single, simple order to follow.

Because they don't really care about minimizing the amount of force used.

[bonzombiekitty]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Lots of people posting that he reached back with his hand and could have been going for a gun so the cops were justified. .

He reached back to take off his backpack, which is what one of the cops was telling him to do.

Police departments need to ensure only one officer is giving instructions and that those instructions are clear. Having a bunch of officers yelling conflicting instructions over each other is just a recipe for disaster.

[Captain_Swoop]

Originally Posted by Belz...

I've said this before but it baffles me why police departments don't have a designated "yeller" in those situations, so that a single person yells a single, simple order to follow.

It's a deliberate tactic. They get to taser you whatever you do.

[Mumbles]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

I recall getting a lot of flack when I suggested Biden's proposed ban on menthols cigarettes would only result in a bigger target being painted on the black community.

This is what it means to criminalize petty behaviors in the US. It means cops will use obscene force for even the mildest breaches of public order. Until this country can get our unhinged police forces back under control, we should be extremely conservative about what should or should not be made illegal.

THere are other issues here.

For those who don't know, Ocean City is a bit summer getaway weekend spot locally. THe sort of place people go when they want to be on the boardwalk, and don't mind the horrific drive to and from the place. So I'm never there in the summer, in other words But it's the same sort of thing you have in other local beachfront touristey/getaway places.

THe "no smoking/Vaping" thing is always going to be a local ordinance there, because second-hand smoke annoys people. I agree with you on petty crimes often leading to more racialized brutality, but in this case it's "we want more tourists" rather than public health - just to be clear what's motivating this particular ordinance.

*anyway*, the second problem is that with lots of tourists in summer, and damn near nobody otherwise, there's also a need for a lot of extra cops in the summer, or what they call "seasonal police". So, lots of part-timers of various sorts, with little to no training. They're known to be, well, trash.

Put them together, and...this.

[erlando]

Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty

Police in Ocean City, MD taze someone who wasn't resisting. He's given conflicting instructions by three different officers. One telling him not to move, another telling him to get on the ground, another telling him to take off his backpack. He starts to take off his backpack and gets tazed.

His crime? Violating a no vaping on the boardwalk ordinance.

https://twitter.com/DrRJKavanagh/sta...20794096455684

I don't even think the tasering is the worst part. The cops cuffed him and goddamn hogtied him and dragged him to a police car. That's the worst thing. What was he doing wrong again?

I will never, ever understand the american way of arresting any and all for any little thing. What the actual ****?!

[erlando]

Originally Posted by Mumbles

*anyway*, the second problem is that with lots of tourists in summer, and damn near nobody otherwise, there's also a need for a lot of extra cops in the summer, or what they call "seasonal police". So, lots of part-timers of various sorts, with little to no training. They're known to be, well, trash.

Put them together, and...this.

Some of these knuckledraggers certainly look the part.