[Continuation] The behaviour of US police officers - part 2 - Page 8

Warp12 · 23rd June 2021, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by Belz...

Well if you want to discuss critical thinking, I suggest you demonstrate that cops have it worse than tech support guys, first.

I'll just let that one simmer in public, lol.

tyr_13 · 23rd June 2021, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

The expression "bootlicking" tells me all I need to know.

Just be sure to call them "pigs" when you dial 911. That way, you are sure to get the help you need.

No it doesn't. Well, maybe for you, but not for skeptics.

The uncritical support and defense of police is one of the factors that leads to police not being held accountable to anywhere near the level they should be. That this uncritical support is given the derogatory shorthand 'bootlicking' does not actually impact the truth of that being a factor.

And when I call 911 I'll be sure to call the cops 'pigs' because it will make the EMS laugh. You know, the overwhelming reason to call 911. Yet EMS actually have accountability, even if often not enough either. (Also because it would make my police family and acquaintances laugh.)

Warp12 · 23rd June 2021, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by tyr_13

No it doesn't. Well, maybe for you, but not for skeptics.

The uncritical support and defense of police is one of the factors that leads to police not being held accountable to anywhere near the level they should be. That this uncritical support is given the derogatory shorthand 'bootlicking' does not actually impact the truth of that being a factor.

And when I call 911 I'll be sure to call the cops 'pigs' because it will make the EMS laugh. You know, the overwhelming reason to call 911. Yet EMS actually have accountability, even if often not enough either. (Also because it would make my police family and acquaintances laugh.)

There is a level between "uncritical support", and calling all officers " pigs".

That level is not referred to as "bootlicking".

SuburbanTurkey · 23rd June 2021, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

Just be sure to call them "pigs" when you dial 911. That way, you are sure to get the help you need.

Remembering a joke:

Originally Posted by some comedian

it'll be interesting to see who "hates the cops" when they get robbed and need someone to show up 7 hours later and shrug their shoulders

Warp12 · 23rd June 2021, 09:15 AM

"I expect respect and fair treatment from Police. I also feel it is ok to refer to them as "PIGS"".

Makes sense.

JoeMorgue · 23rd June 2021, 09:17 AM

The US Supreme Court ruled Wednesday that police cannot enter a home without a warrant when pursuing someone for a minor crime.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/23/polit...nts/index.html

JoeMorgue · 23rd June 2021, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

"I expect respect and fair treatment from Police. I also feel it is ok to refer to them as "PIGS"".

Makes sense.

Listen I've butted heads with SuburbanTurkey over his gleeful hate-boner for police many a time and surely will do again in the future, but you're being massively disingenuous here.

Police are murdering people in the streets with no repercussions. Being insulted over that does not tip or balance any scales nor invite "whataboutism" from rational people.

SuburbanTurkey · 23rd June 2021, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Listen I've butted heads with SuburbanTurkey over his gleeful hate-boner for police many a time and surely will do again in the future, but you're being massively disingenuous here.

Police are murdering people in the streets with no repercussions. Being insulted over that does not tip or balance any scales nor invite "whataboutism" from rational people.

It's totally normal and good that cops have to be treated like dangerous, feral animals. If you surprise or anger them, they might react by killing and it's really up to you to keep things on an even keel. This is a fine state of affairs actually, please don't be rude.

ETA: How do I change my avatar, I want to put a blue line flag to show my support for our heroes

Warp12 · 23rd June 2021, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

The US Supreme Court ruled Wednesday that police cannot enter a home without a warrant when pursuing someone for a minor crime.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/23/polit...nts/index.html

The way I read it is that it must be evaluated by the police on a case by case basis. So that is basically a pointless ruling.

Warp12 · 23rd June 2021, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Listen I've butted heads with SuburbanTurkey over his gleeful hate-boner for police many a time and surely will do again in the future, but you're being massively disingenuous here.

Police are murdering people in the streets with no repercussions. Being insulted over that does not tip or balance any scales nor invite "whataboutism" from rational people.

The data does not support your claim, although the media certainly does. There are certainly isolated incidents, but it is not an epidemic of any sort.

SuburbanTurkey · 23rd June 2021, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Listen I've butted heads with SuburbanTurkey over his gleeful hate-boner for police many a time and surely will do again in the future, but you're being massively disingenuous here.

Police are murdering people in the streets with no repercussions. Being insulted over that does not tip or balance any scales nor invite "whataboutism" from rational people.

Actually a study showed that insults made a lot of cops more dangerous.

Just google "Cops 40%" it should come right up

JoeMorgue · 23rd June 2021, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

The data does not support your claim, although the media certainly does. There are certainly isolated incidents, but it is not an epidemic of any sort.

Okay well if you're just going to deny reality, so be it. I will not waste my time arguing with someone who thinks there's some minimum amount of police murder that has to occur before you're allowed to worry about it.

Your "media" jab only taints the waters more.

Warp12 · 23rd June 2021, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Okay well if you're just going to deny reality, so be it. I will not waste my time arguing with someone who thinks there's some minimum amount of police murder that has to occur before you're allowed to worry about it.

Your "media" jab only taints the waters more.

You can worry about It all you want, in spite of what the data says.

Fine by me.

Delphic Oracle · 23rd June 2021, 09:44 AM

We need to understand the causes of what makes a police officer brutally beat on or unload an entire magazine into someone.

But protestors against police violence have got to tone things down, they get so emotional about it!

Belz... · 23rd June 2021, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

I'll just let that one simmer in public, lol.

You can let it simmer all you want, so long as you demonstrate your claim.

You're assuming that cops have it worse but I don't see why. Maybe you're imagining that their jobs are far more dangerous than they really are.

Belz... · 23rd June 2021, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

"I expect respect and fair treatment from Police. I also feel it is ok to refer to them as "PIGS"".

Makes sense.

Actually, in a democratic society, it does.

You're just not thinking these things through.

Originally Posted by Warp12

You can worry about It all you want, in spite of what the data says.

Fine by me.

Gee, I wonder how much I should bet that you can't present that data.

Mumbles · 23rd June 2021, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Remembering a joke:

Comes up every time a protestor gets their car stolen . "Oh, will a social worker find your car?" Well, since the social worker would recognize that the stolen car is a significant problem, and the police can't seem to find cars even when they're writing tickets for the stolen car and having it towed after however long...yes, I expect the social worker to do a better job.

Same thing for nearly every other crime as well - putting aside that they might actually prevent the crime from occurring to begin with, a job that cops do not do outside of the very rare social work.

jimbob · 23rd June 2021, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Warp12

"I expect respect and fair treatment from Police. I also feel it is ok to refer to them as "PIGS"".

Makes sense.

What is your view on the existence of Homan Square?

What about cops getting tattoos and gang-style initiations for killing people?

What about Chauvin's long history of complaints against him?

What about the DoJ report into policing in Baltimore?

What about the shooting of sleeping people?

The Common Potato · 23rd June 2021, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

Which is why, of course, soccer referees are exempt from prosecution for murder.

Dave

VAR for cops.

Mumbles · 23rd June 2021, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by Warp12

"I expect respect and fair treatment from Police. I also feel it is ok to refer to them as "PIGS"".

Makes sense.

Personally, I expect disrespect, racism, and violence from police, based on prior experiences. I’ll call them under specific situations, but I’d never be shocked if they made things worse. I have no objection to people who call them “pigs”.

Don’t like it. Reform the police so they actually solve crimes rather than harassing and attacking random black and brown people.

Matthew Best · 24th June 2021, 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

You can worry about It all you want, in spite of what the data says.

Fine by me.

What data? I haven't seen you present any.

Ethan Thane Athen · 24th June 2021, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

It would be objectively better if every cop throwing a tantrum over the mere suggestion of accountability for police excesses quit. Like the example of the Portland riot squad that disbanded as a form of protest because one of their own was charged for brutalizing a photojournalist. That decision alone may save the city millions of dollars as the goon squad was the frequent source of expensive lawsuits and was showing no indication they intended to change their ways.

If there's any hope for police reform there must be a cultural shift in these departments, and it's hard to imagine that being possible unless there's significant purging of the most toxic elements. If these people decide to self-select and quit, that saves us a bit of work.

Unfortunately they only resigned from this extra, voluntary duty not from their actual jobs. Basically a withdrawal of good will / work to rule type action....or a protest if you will.

SuburbanTurkey · 24th June 2021, 04:07 AM

Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen

Unfortunately they only resigned from this extra, voluntary duty not from their actual jobs. Basically a withdrawal of good will / work to rule type action....or a protest if you will.

Sure, they are all still cops.

It's a good thing that the current riot squad has disbanded. As a unit, they were responsible for numerous examples of illegal police violence, some of which are currently working through the court system and will almost certainly result in the city having to pay out substantial damages for civil rights violations.

Their little protest is bound to save the cities budget a serious amount of cash and probably do a lot to ease tensions between the public and police.

SuburbanTurkey · 24th June 2021, 06:00 AM

Good Samaritan who likely stopped a mass shooting was shot dead by responding cops.

Quote:

DENVER – The Good Samaritan who died in Monday’s shooting in Olde Town Arvada was shot and killed by a police bullet, Denver7 Chief Investigator Tony Kovaleski has confirmed through three informed, ranking sources — including two law enforcement sources.

Arvada Police Officer Gordon Beesley, Good Samaritan John Hurley, and the man believed to be the suspect in the original shooting, 59-year-old Ronald Troyke, all died in the shooting, but Arvada police have not said who was shot by whom.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ing-to-sources

lobosrul5 · 24th June 2021, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by jimbob

What is your view on the existence of Homan Square?

What about cops getting tattoos and gang-style initiations for killing people?

What about Chauvin's long history of complaints against him?

What about the DoJ report into policing in Baltimore?

What about the shooting of sleeping people?

I'm sure someone called them a mean name, which as we all know is illegal in the US, I mean its right there in the constitution: "Congress shall make no law abridging free speach, but saying something mean to a LEO shall be punishable by death at their sole discretion." Freedom ain't free ya know

Armitage72 · 24th June 2021, 11:26 AM

Just as an aside, I'm finally getting around to watching the second season of The Punisher. One episode ends with Frank standing in a room containing multiple corpses, covered with blood, and holding an assault rifle, as multiple heavily armed police burst into the room. They shout "Drop the weapon and get on your knees" at least three or four times. I couldn't help but think "Damn. Frank's lucky he's white."

quadraginta · 24th June 2021, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

<snip>

ETA: How do I change my avatar, I want to put a blue line flag to show my support for our heroes

Pretty much the same way you set it up the first time.

quadraginta · 24th June 2021, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Good Samaritan who likely stopped a mass shooting was shot dead by responding cops.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ing-to-sources

So much for the 'good guy with a gun'.

SuburbanTurkey · 24th June 2021, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

So much for the 'good guy with a gun'.

A double dose of irony because the original shooter had targeted and ambushed a cop. This guy was literally out there risking his life to save cops and the pigs thanked him by gunning him down.

The lesson is clear. If you see someone murdering a cop, do not interfere.

lobosrul5 · 24th June 2021, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

A double dose of irony because the original shooter had targeted and ambushed a cop. This guy was literally out there risking his life to save cops and the pigs thanked him by gunning him down.

The lesson is clear. If you see someone murdering a cop, do not interfere.

This also happened to a guy in Georgia a couple years ago I believe. Only the victims weren't cops. They saw "guy with gun" and started shooting.

Lesson is, don't be a hero. If you conceal carry only draw if thats YOUR best option rather than running away. Unless your OK with your reward being gunned down the split second a LEO think you might potentially maybe be a threat. I'm sure their penalty will be paid vacation and, maybe, having to talk to a shrink.

Belz... · 24th June 2021, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Good Samaritan who likely stopped a mass shooting was shot dead by responding cops.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ing-to-sources

The only way to stop a good guy with a gun who stopped a bad guy with a gun is to send the police.

SuburbanTurkey · 25th June 2021, 06:30 PM

Third PPB riot squad cop under criminal investigation for assaulting protestors.

This incident was also captured on camera. The cop is seen chasing after fleeing protestors, tackling one, and repeatedly punching the helpless person in the face.

https://www.opb.org/article/2021/06/...t-enforcement/

The entire goon squad resigned in protest when one of their members was indicted by a grand jury for an on-camera assault of a photojournalist. That makes 1 indicted, 2 under criminal investigation. The message is clear, cops will resign in protest if the city dares to hold them accountable for criminal misconduct.

Like the other incidents, this example of police brutality is currently the subject of litigation and is likely to cost the city a hefty amount of damages.

PhantomWolf · 26th June 2021, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

A double dose of irony because the original shooter had targeted and ambushed a cop. This guy was literally out there risking his life to save cops and the pigs thanked him by gunning him down.

The lesson is clear. If you see someone murdering a cop, do not interfere.

Bias showing much there?

This is the result of something that has been stated a lot over time, that when the police arrive on the scene of an active shooting and you are standing there holding a gun, they aren't going to know you aren't the shooter and you're likely to get shot yourself. The responding officers aren't going to know that the guy in front of them holding a gun was the one that shot the killer of the officer on the ground, so yeah. Something to consider before pulling out your gun and rushing off to play hero.

Babbylonian · 26th June 2021, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

Bias showing much there?

This is the result of something that has been stated a lot over time, that when the police arrive on the scene of an active shooting and you are standing there holding a gun, they aren't going to know you aren't the shooter and you're likely to get shot yourself. The responding officers aren't going to know that the guy in front of them holding a gun was the one that shot the killer of the officer on the ground, so yeah. Something to consider before pulling out your gun and rushing off to play hero.

So there's no lesson about trying to get a suspect to drop their gun? To surrender and submit to arrest? You do get that, unless they saw him shoot someone, the responding cops had a duty to identify themselves and attempt arrest before opening fire, right?

But what the hell. I guess they've got to get their rocks off while they can in the two ******* years before they put on body cameras.

PhantomWolf · 27th June 2021, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by Babbylonian

So there's no lesson about trying to get a suspect to drop their gun? To surrender and submit to arrest? You do get that, unless they saw him shoot someone, the responding cops had a duty to identify themselves and attempt arrest before opening fire, right?

But what the hell. I guess they've got to get their rocks off while they can in the two ******* years before they put on body cameras.

Considering that there is currently no information about what actually happened, you don't know that he wasn't told to drop the weapon and then argued about it. I mean for normal people the whole sirens and lights thing might be an indication that not having a gun in your hand while standing over the body of a police officer would probably be a good idea, but hey, you do you.

Captain_Swoop · 27th June 2021, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

I mean for normal people the whole sirens and lights thing might be an indication that not having a gun in your hand while standing over the body of a police officer would probably be a good idea, but hey, you do you.

Is this a recognition that the police shoot first then ask questions later?

quadraginta · 27th June 2021, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

Bias showing much there?

This is the result of something that has been stated a lot over time, that when the police arrive on the scene of an active shooting and you are standing there holding a gun, they aren't going to know you aren't the shooter and you're likely to get shot yourself. The responding officers aren't going to know that the guy in front of them holding a gun was the one that shot the killer of the officer on the ground, so yeah. Something to consider before pulling out your gun and rushing off to play hero.

Like I said. So much for the 'good guy with a gun'.

Babbylonian · 27th June 2021, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

Considering that there is currently no information about what actually happened, you don't know that he wasn't told to drop the weapon and then argued about it. I mean for normal people the whole sirens and lights thing might be an indication that not having a gun in your hand while standing over the body of a police officer would probably be a good idea, but hey, you do you.

We know that he wasn't the criminal and the cops shot him. We therefore know that the cops ****** up. We also know that, because they're cops, they are likely to lie in order to cover up their fatal mistake. So, it might be a good idea for cops to avoid shooting people until they've assessed the situation.

SuburbanTurkey · 28th June 2021, 07:10 AM

Another shooting in recent months in Times Square, in NYC, a heavily visited tourist hotspot.

What's interesting about this is that Times Square is probably one of the most heavily policed public places in all the country, and this is the second time that a heavy police present hasn't stopped a broad daylight shooting nor even prevented the shooter from escaping the scene.

Whenever there's a public concern over crime rates, the kneejerk response always seems to be to throw more money at police departments to put more cops on the streets. Does this actually accomplish anything? How many more cops does Times Square need before people can't commit daylight shootings?

https://abcnews.go.com/US/21-year-ma...l_twitter_abcn

An article exploring this from the first shooting back in June:

Quote:

Times Square is one of the most heavily surveilled and policed places in New York City. And yet the NYPD did not prevent, let alone apprehend the shooter. If all of Times Square’s surveillance cameras, armed police officers, and an actual NYPD station were not enough to prevent a shooting, what would do it? Another few hundred cameras? A few dozen more cops with even bigger guns? A robot dog?

At a certain point, we must ask ourselves why, if our primary solution to a problem proves inadequate over and over again, we continue to invest in it. If all the police and surveillance cameras in Times Square were not enough to stop a shooting, why are we to believe more police will prevent violence in already over-policed neighborhoods — ones that are far more frequent sites of shootings than Times Square? In fact, a comprehensive meta-analysis of crime data conducted by the University of Alaska showed that “...crime rates are rarely associated with increases in police force size, and when changes are found they are small.” This study confirms what we already know — that there is no specific relationship between police force size and crime.

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/...bk4-story.html

SuburbanTurkey · 28th June 2021, 10:41 AM

Fifth Circuit Grants Qualified Immunity To Officers Who Tased Man Soaked in Gasoline, Knowing it Would Light Him on Fire

Quote:

[T]wo police officers tased the suicidal [Gabriel] Olivas, despite:

1. knowing that he was soaked in gasoline,

2. knowing from recent training that tasers ignite gasoline, and

3. knowing from a fellow officer’s explicit warning in that instant, “If we tase him, he’s going to light on fire!”

They fired their tasers anyway, knowing full well that using a taser was tantamount to using a flamethrower. Olivas burst into flames and later died.

https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/ev...-their-co.html

23rd June 2021, 09:00 AM	#282
tyr_13 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 17,534	Originally Posted by Warp12 The expression "bootlicking" tells me all I need to know. Just be sure to call them "pigs" when you dial 911. That way, you are sure to get the help you need. No it doesn't. Well, maybe for you, but not for skeptics. The uncritical support and defense of police is one of the factors that leads to police not being held accountable to anywhere near the level they should be. That this uncritical support is given the derogatory shorthand 'bootlicking' does not actually impact the truth of that being a factor. And when I call 911 I'll be sure to call the cops 'pigs' because it will make the EMS laugh. You know, the overwhelming reason to call 911. Yet EMS actually have accountability, even if often not enough either. (Also because it would make my police family and acquaintances laugh.)
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

23rd June 2021, 09:04 AM	#283
Warp12 Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 7,583	Originally Posted by tyr_13 No it doesn't. Well, maybe for you, but not for skeptics. The uncritical support and defense of police is one of the factors that leads to police not being held accountable to anywhere near the level they should be. That this uncritical support is given the derogatory shorthand 'bootlicking' does not actually impact the truth of that being a factor. And when I call 911 I'll be sure to call the cops 'pigs' because it will make the EMS laugh. You know, the overwhelming reason to call 911. Yet EMS actually have accountability, even if often not enough either. (Also because it would make my police family and acquaintances laugh.) There is a level between "uncritical support", and calling all officers " pigs". That level is not referred to as "bootlicking".
	Last edited by Warp12; 23rd June 2021 at 09:05 AM.

23rd June 2021, 09:15 AM	#285
Warp12 Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 7,583	"I expect respect and fair treatment from Police. I also feel it is ok to refer to them as "PIGS"". Makes sense.
	Last edited by Warp12; 23rd June 2021 at 09:16 AM.

23rd June 2021, 09:17 AM	#286
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 43,041	The US Supreme Court ruled Wednesday that police cannot enter a home without a warrant when pursuing someone for a minor crime. https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/23/polit...nts/index.html
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

23rd June 2021, 09:20 AM	#287
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 43,041	Originally Posted by Warp12 "I expect respect and fair treatment from Police. I also feel it is ok to refer to them as "PIGS"". Makes sense. Listen I've butted heads with SuburbanTurkey over his gleeful hate-boner for police many a time and surely will do again in the future, but you're being massively disingenuous here. Police are murdering people in the streets with no repercussions. Being insulted over that does not tip or balance any scales nor invite "whataboutism" from rational people.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

23rd June 2021, 08:34 AM	#281
Warp12 Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 7,583	Originally Posted by Belz... Well if you want to discuss critical thinking, I suggest you demonstrate that cops have it worse than tech support guys, first. I'll just let that one simmer in public, lol.

23rd June 2021, 09:07 AM	#284
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Originally Posted by Warp12 Just be sure to call them "pigs" when you dial 911. That way, you are sure to get the help you need. Remembering a joke: Originally Posted by some comedian it'll be interesting to see who "hates the cops" when they get robbed and need someone to show up 7 hours later and shrug their shoulders

23rd June 2021, 09:23 AM	#288
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Listen I've butted heads with SuburbanTurkey over his gleeful hate-boner for police many a time and surely will do again in the future, but you're being massively disingenuous here. Police are murdering people in the streets with no repercussions. Being insulted over that does not tip or balance any scales nor invite "whataboutism" from rational people. It's totally normal and good that cops have to be treated like dangerous, feral animals. If you surprise or anger them, they might react by killing and it's really up to you to keep things on an even keel. This is a fine state of affairs actually, please don't be rude. ETA: How do I change my avatar, I want to put a blue line flag to show my support for our heroes
	Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 23rd June 2021 at 09:24 AM.

23rd June 2021, 09:24 AM	#289
Warp12 Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 7,583	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue The US Supreme Court ruled Wednesday that police cannot enter a home without a warrant when pursuing someone for a minor crime. https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/23/polit...nts/index.html The way I read it is that it must be evaluated by the police on a case by case basis. So that is basically a pointless ruling.

23rd June 2021, 09:28 AM	#290
Warp12 Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 7,583	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Listen I've butted heads with SuburbanTurkey over his gleeful hate-boner for police many a time and surely will do again in the future, but you're being massively disingenuous here. Police are murdering people in the streets with no repercussions. Being insulted over that does not tip or balance any scales nor invite "whataboutism" from rational people. The data does not support your claim, although the media certainly does. There are certainly isolated incidents, but it is not an epidemic of any sort.

23rd June 2021, 09:30 AM	#291
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Listen I've butted heads with SuburbanTurkey over his gleeful hate-boner for police many a time and surely will do again in the future, but you're being massively disingenuous here. Police are murdering people in the streets with no repercussions. Being insulted over that does not tip or balance any scales nor invite "whataboutism" from rational people. Actually a study showed that insults made a lot of cops more dangerous. Just google "Cops 40%" it should come right up

23rd June 2021, 09:31 AM	#292
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 43,041	Originally Posted by Warp12 The data does not support your claim, although the media certainly does. There are certainly isolated incidents, but it is not an epidemic of any sort. Okay well if you're just going to deny reality, so be it. I will not waste my time arguing with someone who thinks there's some minimum amount of police murder that has to occur before you're allowed to worry about it. Your "media" jab only taints the waters more.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

23rd June 2021, 09:33 AM	#293
Warp12 Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 7,583	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Okay well if you're just going to deny reality, so be it. I will not waste my time arguing with someone who thinks there's some minimum amount of police murder that has to occur before you're allowed to worry about it. Your "media" jab only taints the waters more. You can worry about It all you want, in spite of what the data says. Fine by me.

23rd June 2021, 09:44 AM	#294
Delphic Oracle Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 6,286	We need to understand the causes of what makes a police officer brutally beat on or unload an entire magazine into someone. But protestors against police violence have got to tone things down, they get so emotional about it!

23rd June 2021, 09:56 AM	#295
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 96,875	Originally Posted by Warp12 I'll just let that one simmer in public, lol. You can let it simmer all you want, so long as you demonstrate your claim. You're assuming that cops have it worse but I don't see why. Maybe you're imagining that their jobs are far more dangerous than they really are.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

23rd June 2021, 09:58 AM	#296
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 96,875	Originally Posted by Warp12 "I expect respect and fair treatment from Police. I also feel it is ok to refer to them as "PIGS"". Makes sense. Actually, in a democratic society, it does. You're just not thinking these things through. Originally Posted by Warp12 You can worry about It all you want, in spite of what the data says. Fine by me. Gee, I wonder how much I should bet that you can't present that data.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

23rd June 2021, 10:03 AM	#297
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,726	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Remembering a joke: Comes up every time a protestor gets their car stolen . "Oh, will a social worker find your car?" Well, since the social worker would recognize that the stolen car is a significant problem, and the police can't seem to find cars even when they're writing tickets for the stolen car and having it towed after however long...yes, I expect the social worker to do a better job. Same thing for nearly every other crime as well - putting aside that they might actually prevent the crime from occurring to begin with, a job that cops do not do outside of the very rare social work.
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,726	Last edited by Mumbles; 23rd June 2021 at 10:04 AM.

23rd June 2021, 02:44 PM	#298
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 29,228	Originally Posted by Warp12 "I expect respect and fair treatment from Police. I also feel it is ok to refer to them as "PIGS"". Makes sense. What is your view on the existence of Homan Square? What about cops getting tattoos and gang-style initiations for killing people? What about Chauvin's long history of complaints against him? What about the DoJ report into policing in Baltimore? What about the shooting of sleeping people?
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

23rd June 2021, 05:08 PM	#299
The Common Potato Muse Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: The Scunthorpe Problem Posts: 581	Originally Posted by Dave Rogers Which is why, of course, soccer referees are exempt from prosecution for murder. Dave VAR for cops.

23rd June 2021, 07:32 PM	#300
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,726	Originally Posted by Warp12 "I expect respect and fair treatment from Police. I also feel it is ok to refer to them as "PIGS"". Makes sense. Personally, I expect disrespect, racism, and violence from police, based on prior experiences. I’ll call them under specific situations, but I’d never be shocked if they made things worse. I have no objection to people who call them “pigs”. Don’t like it. Reform the police so they actually solve crimes rather than harassing and attacking random black and brown people.
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,726

24th June 2021, 02:08 AM	#301
Matthew Best Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 9,807	Originally Posted by Warp12 You can worry about It all you want, in spite of what the data says. Fine by me. What data? I haven't seen you present any.

24th June 2021, 02:20 AM	#302
Ethan Thane Athen Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,689	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey It would be objectively better if every cop throwing a tantrum over the mere suggestion of accountability for police excesses quit. Like the example of the Portland riot squad that disbanded as a form of protest because one of their own was charged for brutalizing a photojournalist. That decision alone may save the city millions of dollars as the goon squad was the frequent source of expensive lawsuits and was showing no indication they intended to change their ways. If there's any hope for police reform there must be a cultural shift in these departments, and it's hard to imagine that being possible unless there's significant purging of the most toxic elements. If these people decide to self-select and quit, that saves us a bit of work. Unfortunately they only resigned from this extra, voluntary duty not from their actual jobs. Basically a withdrawal of good will / work to rule type action....or a protest if you will.

24th June 2021, 04:07 AM	#303
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen Unfortunately they only resigned from this extra, voluntary duty not from their actual jobs. Basically a withdrawal of good will / work to rule type action....or a protest if you will. Sure, they are all still cops. It's a good thing that the current riot squad has disbanded. As a unit, they were responsible for numerous examples of illegal police violence, some of which are currently working through the court system and will almost certainly result in the city having to pay out substantial damages for civil rights violations. Their little protest is bound to save the cities budget a serious amount of cash and probably do a lot to ease tensions between the public and police.

24th June 2021, 06:00 AM	#304
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Good Samaritan who likely stopped a mass shooting was shot dead by responding cops. Quote: DENVER – The Good Samaritan who died in Monday’s shooting in Olde Town Arvada was shot and killed by a police bullet, Denver7 Chief Investigator Tony Kovaleski has confirmed through three informed, ranking sources — including two law enforcement sources. Arvada Police Officer Gordon Beesley, Good Samaritan John Hurley, and the man believed to be the suspect in the original shooting, 59-year-old Ronald Troyke, all died in the shooting, but Arvada police have not said who was shot by whom. https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ing-to-sources

24th June 2021, 09:22 AM	#305
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,423	Originally Posted by jimbob What is your view on the existence of Homan Square? What about cops getting tattoos and gang-style initiations for killing people? What about Chauvin's long history of complaints against him? What about the DoJ report into policing in Baltimore? What about the shooting of sleeping people? I'm sure someone called them a mean name, which as we all know is illegal in the US, I mean its right there in the constitution: "Congress shall make no law abridging free speach, but saying something mean to a LEO shall be punishable by death at their sole discretion." Freedom ain't free ya know
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,423

24th June 2021, 11:26 AM	#306
Armitage72 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 7,669	Just as an aside, I'm finally getting around to watching the second season of The Punisher. One episode ends with Frank standing in a room containing multiple corpses, covered with blood, and holding an assault rifle, as multiple heavily armed police burst into the room. They shout "Drop the weapon and get on your knees" at least three or four times. I couldn't help but think "Damn. Frank's lucky he's white."

24th June 2021, 12:13 PM	#307
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,687	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey <snip> ETA: How do I change my avatar, I want to put a blue line flag to show my support for our heroes Pretty much the same way you set it up the first time.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

24th June 2021, 12:15 PM	#308
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,687	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Good Samaritan who likely stopped a mass shooting was shot dead by responding cops. https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ing-to-sources So much for the 'good guy with a gun'.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

24th June 2021, 12:18 PM	#309
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Originally Posted by quadraginta So much for the 'good guy with a gun'. A double dose of irony because the original shooter had targeted and ambushed a cop. This guy was literally out there risking his life to save cops and the pigs thanked him by gunning him down. The lesson is clear. If you see someone murdering a cop, do not interfere.
	Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 24th June 2021 at 12:19 PM.

24th June 2021, 01:50 PM	#310
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,423	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey A double dose of irony because the original shooter had targeted and ambushed a cop. This guy was literally out there risking his life to save cops and the pigs thanked him by gunning him down. The lesson is clear. If you see someone murdering a cop, do not interfere. This also happened to a guy in Georgia a couple years ago I believe. Only the victims weren't cops. They saw "guy with gun" and started shooting. Lesson is, don't be a hero. If you conceal carry only draw if thats YOUR best option rather than running away. Unless your OK with your reward being gunned down the split second a LEO think you might potentially maybe be a threat. I'm sure their penalty will be paid vacation and, maybe, having to talk to a shrink.
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,423	Last edited by lobosrul5; 24th June 2021 at 01:53 PM.

24th June 2021, 01:52 PM	#311
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 96,875	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Good Samaritan who likely stopped a mass shooting was shot dead by responding cops. https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ing-to-sources The only way to stop a good guy with a gun who stopped a bad guy with a gun is to send the police.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

25th June 2021, 06:30 PM	#312
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Third PPB riot squad cop under criminal investigation for assaulting protestors. This incident was also captured on camera. The cop is seen chasing after fleeing protestors, tackling one, and repeatedly punching the helpless person in the face. https://www.opb.org/article/2021/06/...t-enforcement/ The entire goon squad resigned in protest when one of their members was indicted by a grand jury for an on-camera assault of a photojournalist. That makes 1 indicted, 2 under criminal investigation. The message is clear, cops will resign in protest if the city dares to hold them accountable for criminal misconduct. Like the other incidents, this example of police brutality is currently the subject of litigation and is likely to cost the city a hefty amount of damages.
	Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 25th June 2021 at 06:32 PM.

26th June 2021, 08:40 PM	#313
PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 21,203	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey A double dose of irony because the original shooter had targeted and ambushed a cop. This guy was literally out there risking his life to save cops and the pigs thanked him by gunning him down. The lesson is clear. If you see someone murdering a cop, do not interfere. Bias showing much there? This is the result of something that has been stated a lot over time, that when the police arrive on the scene of an active shooting and you are standing there holding a gun, they aren't going to know you aren't the shooter and you're likely to get shot yourself. The responding officers aren't going to know that the guy in front of them holding a gun was the one that shot the killer of the officer on the ground, so yeah. Something to consider before pulling out your gun and rushing off to play hero.
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

26th June 2021, 09:34 PM	#314
Babbylonian Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 13,994	Originally Posted by PhantomWolf Bias showing much there? This is the result of something that has been stated a lot over time, that when the police arrive on the scene of an active shooting and you are standing there holding a gun, they aren't going to know you aren't the shooter and you're likely to get shot yourself. The responding officers aren't going to know that the guy in front of them holding a gun was the one that shot the killer of the officer on the ground, so yeah. Something to consider before pulling out your gun and rushing off to play hero. So there's no lesson about trying to get a suspect to drop their gun? To surrender and submit to arrest? You do get that, unless they saw him shoot someone, the responding cops had a duty to identify themselves and attempt arrest before opening fire, right? But what the hell. I guess they've got to get their rocks off while they can in the two ******* years before they put on body cameras.
	Last edited by Babbylonian; 26th June 2021 at 09:36 PM.

27th June 2021, 04:08 AM	#315
PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 21,203	Originally Posted by Babbylonian So there's no lesson about trying to get a suspect to drop their gun? To surrender and submit to arrest? You do get that, unless they saw him shoot someone, the responding cops had a duty to identify themselves and attempt arrest before opening fire, right? But what the hell. I guess they've got to get their rocks off while they can in the two ******* years before they put on body cameras. Considering that there is currently no information about what actually happened, you don't know that he wasn't told to drop the weapon and then argued about it. I mean for normal people the whole sirens and lights thing might be an indication that not having a gun in your hand while standing over the body of a police officer would probably be a good idea, but hey, you do you.
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)