The Trump Presidency: Part 29 - Page 4

Horatius · 21st December 2021, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

He is already seen as one, so it really doesn't matter if he actually has to face some consequences.

Yeah, "Don't do that or you'll piss off his crazy supporters!" isn't much of an argument when everything pisses them off.

The Great Zaganza · 21st December 2021, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by Horatius

Yeah, "Don't do that or you'll piss off his crazy supporters!" isn't much of an argument when everything pisses them off.

ain't that the truth.

eerok · 21st December 2021, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Make a martyr out of him. That's a good idea.

Reality makes no difference to the dillweeds who worship Trump, but for the rest of America, seeing a lifelong abuser of the system and serial toxic jackass like Trump finally be held accountable is in fact a good idea.

bruto · 21st December 2021, 11:45 AM

T**** has played the martyr from the start, bemoaning the unwillingness of everyone under the sun to go along with him, characterizing the impeachments as witch hunts, and so forth, just as the majority Christians paint themselves as a beleaguered minority if the rest of the world doesn't march to their beat.

Perhaps it's time to stop being afraid of them. I think too many Democrats count their cause lost before they've done anything at all.

mgidm86 · 21st December 2021, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Just dropped in to share a nice prediction by someone who knows his stuff:

Investigating Trump: Manhattan DA prepares charges against former president

In the MSNBC interview Johnston says he thinks Trump is about to be indicted for racketeering.

Reporters from Forbes recently testified before the Grand Jury about Trump's inflating his net worth. Trump regularly inflated his worth to get loans and deflated it when it came to his taxes. This is a no brainer. He will of course blame this all on Weisselberg but that won't help given Trump signed everything. Also a no brainer. And then there is the matter Trump has a long history of using this tactic, that's where the racketeering comes in as opposed to a mere civil suit.

Trump's response is always to delay delay delay so it's no wonder he recently filed a lawsuit asking all the legal actions in NY be stopped. No doubt that will go to appeal after appeal until it reaches the SCOTUS where Trump no doubt is still hoping his appointed judges will come through for him even though it is a state case against him. Again another no brainer.

But the racketeering charge is something new.

Nice to see you here again, now "tag up" with me so I can take another break please!

newyorkguy · 22nd December 2021, 02:56 AM

It has been widely reported former president donald trump was booed in Dallas Sunday night after he revealed he'd received a booster shot of Covid-19 vaccine. This was during the final stop of the four-city tour he's been on with former Fox News host Bill O'Reilly.

Quote:

Former President Donald Trump revealed he received a booster shot of the COVID-19 vaccine, drawing boos from a crowd in Dallas. Trump made the disclosure Sunday night during the final stop of “The History Tour,” a live interview show he has been doing with former Fox News host Bill O’Reilly...Trump aides did not immediately respond to a request for comment Monday. ABC News link

Fast Eddie B · 22nd December 2021, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

It has been widely reported former president donald trump was booed in Dallas Sunday night after he revealed he'd received a booster shot of Covid-19 vaccine. This was during the final stop of the four-city tour he's been on with former Fox News host Bill O'Reilly.

You can see it here:

https://youtu.be/k7RTp40syro

Hard to tell because of the microphone placement, but it seems like a small smattering of disapproval rather than raucous boos. It may have been “a tiny group over there” as Trump put it.

Fast Eddie B · 22nd December 2021, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

The 1997 BBC series The Nazis: A Warning from History is good too

https://watchdocumentaries.com/the-n...-from-history/

I made it through the first 3 episodes.

I’ll be skipping Episode 4 - “The Road to Treblinka”. Episode 3 was graphic enough about the horrors of which I am already aware. Episode 5 is “Fighting to the End”, so I’ll give that a go.

Altogether a well crafted documentary series. The interviews with both participants and victims are especially revealing.

Lurch · 22nd December 2021, 11:21 AM

As I write this, the thread is up to Part 29. I wonder what will this Part number count will rise to by the end of 2028. Provided that before then websites accommodating free expression, intellectualism, skepticism, science, etc., aren't shut down as "wreckers."

You see, I'm approaching a kind of despondency over the potential for the orange sphincter getting back into power. If the DoJ remains mute on the matter of the insurrectionist ring-leaders, the jig will up for American democracy, such as it can be called that.

Last night Rachel revisited the matter of the 10 Wisvonsin fake electors that illegally submitted their forged documents, as part of the plan to get Trump's 'alternate' electors recognized on the 6th. To me, this is a crime of the highest order, yet thus nothing meaningful has been done about it. Some of those people remain in or were moved into positions of authority over future elections.

I keep saying it. America is sleepwalking into authoritarianism.

shemp · 22nd December 2021, 08:52 PM

So, did he just admit that he lost?

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/s...10902264827906

eerok · 22nd December 2021, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by shemp

So, did he just admit that he lost?

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/s...10902264827906

Trump could never lose. Don't believe your lying eyes. /s

Aridas · 22nd December 2021, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by shemp

So, did he just admit that he lost?

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/s...10902264827906

Probably? And it's probably not the first time, either way. Does it actually matter? Not really. He and much of the Republican Party establishment will keep claiming that the election was stolen from him for tactical/propaganda reasons, regardless of how clear they've made it that they know that it's a pile of crap.

Stacyhs · 23rd December 2021, 12:20 AM

Yes, he did. He needs to send nasty, insulting tweets to himself. Oh, wait....

The Atheist · 23rd December 2021, 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

What's the alternative ? Let him off scot-free ?

Given he owns SCOTUS, where final appeals could end up, I don't believe he will ever face consequences anyway, so yes, let it go.

I don't believe anything he's done is as bad as things we know for certain he's done before, so no conviction will change the minds of those who vote for him.

In the words of Micehelle Obama: Be Better.

The Don · 23rd December 2021, 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Given he owns SCOTUS, where final appeals could end up, I don't believe he will ever face consequences anyway, so yes, let it go.

I don't believe anything he's done is as bad as things we know for certain he's done before, so no conviction will change the minds of those who vote for him.

In the words of Micehelle Obama: Be Better.

Well I suppose that's a point of view.

IMO that sends a clear message that, if you're prepared to brazen things out and delay proceedings long enough, the rule of law does not apply.

When that message is received, the GOP will come to the conclusion that they will never face any consequences for any of their actions and that they now "own" the country.

I think that's a dangerous message to send - YMMV.

Stacyhs · 23rd December 2021, 03:10 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

Well I suppose that's a point of view.

IMO that sends a clear message that, if you're prepared to brazen things out and delay proceedings long enough, the rule of law does not apply.

When that message is received, the GOP will come to the conclusion that they will never face any consequences for any of their actions and that they now "own" the country.

I think that's a dangerous message to send - YMMV.

I could not agree with you more. It was the same thing with the two impeachments. They clearly sent the message that it doesn't matter what you do, if you're powerful enough, you can get away with anything. Obviously, Trump believed that when he said " And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything," and he's been proved right. At least so far. Dropping this would just cement that belief in those that follow. He MUST be held accountable for his actions and crimes or any pretense that we are all equal before the law might as well just be flushed down the toilet.

Segnosaur · 23rd December 2021, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Quote:

What's the alternative ? Let him off scot-free ?

Given he owns SCOTUS, where final appeals could end up, I don't believe he will ever face consequences anyway, so yes, let it go.

Does he really "own the Supreme court"?

Yes, the supreme court should now be viewed as a bunch of partisan hacks interested in pushing an agenda that appeals only to a minority of voters. But I think their allegiance is aimed mostly at right-wing policies, rather than Trump himself. (Not that they would shy away from helping Trump, but they would have to be smart about things. And they have ruled against him in the past.)

Quote:

I don't believe anything he's done is as bad as things we know for certain he's done before, so no conviction will change the minds of those who vote for him.

The hardcore MAGAchuds will never be convinced otherwise. The hope is that there are some marginal voters who may have voted Trump in the past, who might start to think "Whoa! A convictinon? I didn't think he was that bad. Maybe I should not support him anymore".

JoeMorgue · 23rd December 2021, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Does he really "own the Supreme court"?

Errr... sorta yeah. Without semantics the point has 3 hand picked toadies on the court who are going to (most of the time, rare, mostly meaningless exceptions will happen) vote for him on a personal level instead of voting legally, on their conscious, or even with a traditional political bias.

Stacyhs · 23rd December 2021, 02:28 PM

Speaking of the SC:

Quote:

Trump asks Supreme Court to block release of his White House records to January 6 committee

Quote:

In filings submitted to the Supreme Court on Thursday, Trump asked the justices to take up a full review of the case and he requested that while they consider his position, they put a hold on the lower court decision permitting the disclosure of his records while they consider taking up the case.

"The limited interest the Committee may have in immediately obtaining the requested records pales in comparison to President Trump's interest in securing judicial review before he suffers irreparable harm," Trump's lawyers wrote in the court filings.

Quote:

At issue are hundreds of documents including activity logs, schedules, speech notes and three pages of handwritten notes from then-White House chief of staff Mark Meadows -- paperwork that could reveal goings-on inside the West Wing as Trump supporters gathered in Washington and then overran the US Capitol, disrupting the certification of the 2020 vote. The records could answer some of the most closely guarded facts of what happened between Trump and other high-level officials, including those under siege on Capitol Hill on January 6.

Trump is also seeking to keep secret a draft proclamation honoring two police officers who died in the siege and memos and other documents about supposed election fraud and efforts to overturn Trump's loss of the presidency, the National Archives has said in court documents.

The Atheist · 23rd December 2021, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by The Don

IMO that sends a clear message that, if you're prepared to brazen things out and delay proceedings long enough, the rule of law does not apply.

Remind me again, in spite of numerous cases of fraud, racism, slander, libel, illegal use of public funds and using the office of POTUS for personal gain, how many times he's been convicted to date?

Two impeachments failed, he's never been held accountable for anything in his disgusting life. What makes you think it might happen now, on probably the most spurious charges that could be brought?

As long as the opposing team keeps focusing on him instead of getting their own **** together nothing will stop his re-election.

Segnosaur · 23rd December 2021, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Remind me again, in spite of numerous cases of fraud, racism, slander, libel, illegal use of public funds and using the office of POTUS for personal gain, how many times he's been convicted to date?

He hasn't been sentenced to criminal charges, but remember that he and/or his klan have lost civil cases (such as over Trump university), so he's not totally invulnerable.

Now, you may be right to be pessimistic. Maybe he will always find a way (a friendly judge, corrupt politicians, etc.) to avoid being held accountable. But that doesn't necessarily mean it is a mistake to go after him for his criminal activity.

Best case scenario, they actually manage to charge and convict him. (Its not outside the realm of possibility.... after all, we have heard of other rich people getting charged after years of criminal activity? (Ghislaine Maxwell as an example.)

And even in the worst case scenario, even if he manages to avoid any sort of prosecution/conviction, it is still at least an annoyance for him (if not a major headache). He has to pay for lawyers (after all, he can't stiff them all...), take time out of his schedule of grifting others to deal with court cases, etc.

Quote:

As long as the opposing team keeps focusing on him instead of getting their own **** together nothing will stop his re-election.

Why does it have to be an either/or?

Legal charges are brought by prosecutors. There is nothing keeping politicians from running their campaigns while prosecutors do their work.

Aridas · 27th December 2021, 02:09 PM

To poke at one of the ongoing aftereffects of Trump -

'I hope your family dies in front of you': Rep. Dingell responds to the cruelty Trump has wrought

Example -

Quote:

VOICEMAIL TO REP. DINGELL: “You goddamn old senile bitch. You’re as old and ugly as Biden. You ought to get the **** off the planet. You ******* foul bitch. They ought to ******* try you for treason, bitch. You and every one of your scumbag ******* friends. I hope your family dies in front of you. I pray to God if you’ve got any children, they die in your face.”

From a discussion on the topic -

Quote:

DINGELL: “I’ve been getting those for a couple of years.”

BASH: “A couple of years?”

DINGELL: “A couple of years, ever since, at Christmastime, the Christmas right after John [Dingell, Rep. Debbie Dingell’s late husband and a former congressman] had died, President Trump was in Michigan. … Once you’re in that Trump hate tunnel, you kind of don’t escape it. There are a lot of good people out there who are really wonderful to me, etc., but we average several of those a week. And, you know, we’re used to it. … My friends look at me, I play them, and it’s almost like therapy, and they say, ‘How can you do this?’ But you have to, we’ve got to be careful not to normalize it, but I’m not going to not do my job. I’m not going to go out and not be with people. I’m not going to go out and not listen to them. I want the American people to think about what’s happening in our country. That this kind of hate, this fear, is happening in communities across the country. You know, if you even look at the horrific shooting that killed children in our state … he was living with parents that had some of that. We need to really worry about our democracy and find a way that you can disagree with people and do it in a civil and agreeable way. And it really does have me very worried.”

Stacyhs · 27th December 2021, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by Aridas

To poke at one of the ongoing aftereffects of Trump -

'I hope your family dies in front of you': Rep. Dingell responds to the cruelty Trump has wrought

Example -

From a discussion on the topic -

Sometimes...hell, most of the time nowadays, I really, really dislike people in general.

The Man · 27th December 2021, 04:50 PM

Well, it's started again. I just received my "2022 CONGRSSIONAL DISRICT CANVASS" "Commissioned by the Republican Party" with the typical loaded questions. As usual with the notations like "Registered Document" and "Do Not Destroy" it went right into the shredder. At least now they're not claiming it's a "Census" requiring some processing fee. Though I expect there still was some other strong push for a donation or "Fee" (didn't look at that part).

Stacyhs · 27th December 2021, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by The Man

Well, it's started again. I just received my "2022 CONGRSSIONAL DISRICT CANVASS" "Commissioned by the Republican Party" with the typical loaded questions. As usual with the notations like "Registered Document" and "Do Not Destroy" it went right into the shredder. At least now they're not claiming it's a "Census" requiring some processing fee. Though I expect there still was some other strong push for a donation or "Fee" (didn't look at that part).

I'd say your expectation is more than solidly based.

Warp12 · 27th December 2021, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Aridas

To poke at one of the ongoing aftereffects of Trump -

'I hope your family dies in front of you': Rep. Dingell responds to the cruelty Trump has wrought

Example -

From a discussion on the topic -

This makes me laugh. Not because I think people should be so mean and toxic...but because of the garbage and hate that gets spewed in this very forum. But, you know, that's okay...because conservatives are bad, and all.

Venom · 27th December 2021, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Warp12

This makes me laugh. Not because I think people should be so mean and toxic...but because of the garbage and hate that gets spewed in this very forum. But, you know, that's okay...because conservatives are bad, and all.

If Trump is your standard for being a "conservative", you're in deep trouble.

I think you know that being a conservative alone is not what draws the hostility.

thaiboxerken · 27th December 2021, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Venom

If Trump is your standard for being a "conservative", you're in deep trouble.

I think you know that being a conservative alone is not what draws the hostility.

I'm pretty sure trolls don't really care about such nuance.

Stacyhs · 27th December 2021, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

I'm pretty sure trolls don't really care about such nuance.

Warp12 · 27th December 2021, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by Venom

If Trump is your standard for being a "conservative", you're in deep trouble.

I think you know that being a conservative alone is not what draws the hostility.

If you think the hate here is limited to Trump, and not often spewed towards conservatives in a blanket fashion...well, I would call that denial.

But, hey, whatever you say. I am not expecting anyone to have an introspective moment, in this place. That ship sailed a long time ago. Along with most of the members, it seems.

bruto · 27th December 2021, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Warp12

This makes me laugh. Not because I think people should be so mean and toxic...but because of the garbage and hate that gets spewed in this very forum. But, you know, that's okay...because conservatives are bad, and all.

I agree to a degree that one should not rise to the bait, even of those who in their wickedness realize that the things they do which are wrong can only be countered by similar wrongs for which they can then condemn their victims with convenient disregard for what went befare. But even in the vengeful utterances we sometimes see here I cannot recall anyone, even those I believe have gone way too far, expressing to an individual tthe hope that their children die in front of them. Even you, I think, might, if you stopped to think, might relax your customary rationalization and admit that this goes beyond mere nasty rhetoric. I truly believe that people who can utter such things anyehere but in feverish solitude are dangerously deranged and unworthy of the good opinion of anyone who purports to deserve any respect this side of Hell.

Eta by which if you don't get my drift, I mean that no comparative excuse can provide an excuse. You are on record as saying that failure to condemn is tantamount to approval. I do not consider a mealy-mouthed "they're all bad"whataboutism suffices here.

Warp12 · 27th December 2021, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by bruto

I agree to a degree that one should not rise to the bait, even of those who in their wickedness realize that the things they do which are wrong can only be countered by similar wrongs for which they can then condemn their victims with convenient disregard for what went befare. But even in the vengeful utterances we sometimes see here I cannot recall anyone, even those I believe have gone way too far, expressing to an individual tthe hope that their children die in front of them. Even you, I think, might, if you stopped to think, might relax your customary rationalization and admit that this goes beyond mere nasty rhetoric. I truly believe that people who can utter such things anyehere but in feverish solitude are dangerously deranged and unworthy of the good opinion of anyone who purports to deserve any respect this side of Hell.

Meh. If people are willing to escalate hatred, but then whine when it exceeds their personal threshold of acceptability...I say, **** 'em. Give them what they peddle, and in spades.

Venom · 27th December 2021, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Warp12

If you think the hate here is limited to Trump, and not often spewed towards conservatives in a blanket fashion...well, I would call that denial.

There are relatively conservative members who have spewed "hate" towards much of the modern GOP. Why do you think that is. Hate doesn't have to be balanced to be objective.

Originally Posted by Warp12

But, hey, whatever you say. I am not expecting anyone to have an introspective moment, in this place. That ship sailed a long time ago. Along with most of the members, it seems.

lmao

bruto · 27th December 2021, 06:19 PM

Sorry I was a bit late with a "eta" here, but wiil just add that if you think this is merely a comparative escalation of bad taste, I think you are missing something very important.

I'll leave it at htat.

Stacyhs · 27th December 2021, 07:29 PM

I just watched a very interesting program on Trump including interviews with mental health professionals about his mental disorders and why and how he appealed to so many people. Historians compare his rise to how Mussolini was 'invited in by the ruling elite" and how they thought they could control him (think 2016 and today's GOP leadership) and with Hitler and his use of scapegoats (think immigration). They discuss how he uses the same techniques as Mussolini and Hitler in fostering a sense of victimization and fear and by removing a certain element (the scapegoat), it will make the country better and their lives better. He repeats things 3 times at rallies and gets the audience to repeat it. It then becomes fact to them. Interviews with those who know him reveal who he really is. It was made when Trump was still in office 2018) but is still relevant considering the grip he still has on the GOP. Although they focus on his control of nuclear weapons, etc., we know his real dangerousness was/is his attack on our democracy. It's fascinating and I highly recommend it.

Unfit: The Psychology of Donald Trump (about 1.5 hours)

Available on Youtube (in 7 parts) and Amazon Prime.

Regnad Kcin · 27th December 2021, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Warp12

This makes me laugh. Not because I think people should be so mean and toxic...but because of the garbage and hate that gets spewed in this very forum. But, you know, that's okay...because conservatives are bad, and all.

Troll, troll, troll your boat..

Delvo · 27th December 2021, 09:19 PM

It will be interesting to see the reaction when he dies. Cults normally fizzle when their leaders die; the ones that outlive their leaders are religions. But the analogy is flawed because he didn't found the movement; he just stumbled into it after it had been around for years without him.

mgidm86 · 27th December 2021, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin

Troll, troll, troll your boat..

More like a dinghy...

Quote:

1. noun plural -ghies. any small boat, powered by sail, oars, or outboard motor

2. verb plural -gies, -gying or -gied. (tr) British slang to ignore (a person) or avoid (an event)

Pixel42 · 27th December 2021, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Warp12

This makes me laugh. Not because I think people should be so mean and toxic...but because of the garbage and hate that gets spewed in this very forum. But, you know, that's okay...because conservatives are bad, and all.

Do good people who despise bad people become bad people themselves when they do so? Discuss, without invoking Godwin's Law.

Stacyhs · 28th December 2021, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin

Troll, troll, troll your boat..

21st December 2021, 06:06 AM	#121
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,675	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza He is already seen as one, so it really doesn't matter if he actually has to face some consequences. Yeah, "Don't do that or you'll piss off his crazy supporters!" isn't much of an argument when everything pisses them off.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

21st December 2021, 06:13 AM	#122
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 19,554	Originally Posted by Horatius Yeah, "Don't do that or you'll piss off his crazy supporters!" isn't much of an argument when everything pisses them off. ain't that the truth.
	__________________ "The only true paradise is paradise lost" Marcel Proust

21st December 2021, 10:20 AM	#123
eerok Quixoticist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ON Canada Posts: 5,388	Originally Posted by The Atheist Make a martyr out of him. That's a good idea. Reality makes no difference to the dillweeds who worship Trump, but for the rest of America, seeing a lifelong abuser of the system and serial toxic jackass like Trump finally be held accountable is in fact a good idea.
	__________________ "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

21st December 2021, 11:45 AM	#124
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 34,288	T**** has played the martyr from the start, bemoaning the unwillingness of everyone under the sun to go along with him, characterizing the impeachments as witch hunts, and so forth, just as the majority Christians paint themselves as a beleaguered minority if the rest of the world doesn't march to their beat. Perhaps it's time to stop being afraid of them. I think too many Democrats count their cause lost before they've done anything at all.
	__________________ Like many humorless and indignant people, he is hard on everybody but himself, and does not perceive it when he fails his own ideal (Molière) A pedant is a man who studies a vacuum through instruments that allow him to draw cross-sections of the details (John Ciardi)

21st December 2021, 11:15 PM	#125
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,624	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Just dropped in to share a nice prediction by someone who knows his stuff: Investigating Trump: Manhattan DA prepares charges against former president In the MSNBC interview Johnston says he thinks Trump is about to be indicted for racketeering. Reporters from Forbes recently testified before the Grand Jury about Trump's inflating his net worth. Trump regularly inflated his worth to get loans and deflated it when it came to his taxes. This is a no brainer. He will of course blame this all on Weisselberg but that won't help given Trump signed everything. Also a no brainer. And then there is the matter Trump has a long history of using this tactic, that's where the racketeering comes in as opposed to a mere civil suit. Trump's response is always to delay delay delay so it's no wonder he recently filed a lawsuit asking all the legal actions in NY be stopped. No doubt that will go to appeal after appeal until it reaches the SCOTUS where Trump no doubt is still hoping his appointed judges will come through for him even though it is a state case against him. Again another no brainer. But the racketeering charge is something new. Nice to see you here again, now "tag up" with me so I can take another break please!
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,624	__________________ Why bother?

22nd December 2021, 02:56 AM	#126
newyorkguy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: NY Posts: 12,899	It has been widely reported former president donald trump was booed in Dallas Sunday night after he revealed he'd received a booster shot of Covid-19 vaccine. This was during the final stop of the four-city tour he's been on with former Fox News host Bill O'Reilly. Quote: Former President Donald Trump revealed he received a booster shot of the COVID-19 vaccine, drawing boos from a crowd in Dallas. Trump made the disclosure Sunday night during the final stop of “The History Tour,” a live interview show he has been doing with former Fox News host Bill O’Reilly...Trump aides did not immediately respond to a request for comment Monday. ABC News link

22nd December 2021, 06:38 AM	#127
Fast Eddie B Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA Posts: 7,482	Originally Posted by newyorkguy It has been widely reported former president donald trump was booed in Dallas Sunday night after he revealed he'd received a booster shot of Covid-19 vaccine. This was during the final stop of the four-city tour he's been on with former Fox News host Bill O'Reilly. You can see it here: https://youtu.be/k7RTp40syro Hard to tell because of the microphone placement, but it seems like a small smattering of disapproval rather than raucous boos. It may have been “a tiny group over there” as Trump put it.

22nd December 2021, 06:46 AM	#128
Fast Eddie B Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA Posts: 7,482	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop The 1997 BBC series The Nazis: A Warning from History is good too https://watchdocumentaries.com/the-n...-from-history/ I made it through the first 3 episodes. I’ll be skipping Episode 4 - “The Road to Treblinka”. Episode 3 was graphic enough about the horrors of which I am already aware. Episode 5 is “Fighting to the End”, so I’ll give that a go. Altogether a well crafted documentary series. The interviews with both participants and victims are especially revealing.

22nd December 2021, 11:21 AM	#129
Lurch Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Ottawa Posts: 2,357	As I write this, the thread is up to Part 29. I wonder what will this Part number count will rise to by the end of 2028. Provided that before then websites accommodating free expression, intellectualism, skepticism, science, etc., aren't shut down as "wreckers." You see, I'm approaching a kind of despondency over the potential for the orange sphincter getting back into power. If the DoJ remains mute on the matter of the insurrectionist ring-leaders, the jig will up for American democracy, such as it can be called that. Last night Rachel revisited the matter of the 10 Wisvonsin fake electors that illegally submitted their forged documents, as part of the plan to get Trump's 'alternate' electors recognized on the 6th. To me, this is a crime of the highest order, yet thus nothing meaningful has been done about it. Some of those people remain in or were moved into positions of authority over future elections. I keep saying it. America is sleepwalking into authoritarianism.

22nd December 2021, 08:52 PM	#130
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Out back preparing the bunker for the next Civil War Posts: 53,859	So, did he just admit that he lost? https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/s...10902264827906
	__________________ "Yes, I'll be around for many more centuries. You, meanwhile, will have long ago been turned into value dog food, despite your express wishes to the contrary." -- JihadJane

22nd December 2021, 09:02 PM	#131
eerok Quixoticist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ON Canada Posts: 5,388	Originally Posted by shemp So, did he just admit that he lost? https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/s...10902264827906 Trump could never lose. Don't believe your lying eyes. /s
	__________________ "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

22nd December 2021, 10:12 PM	#132
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 9,782	Originally Posted by shemp So, did he just admit that he lost? https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/s...10902264827906 Probably? And it's probably not the first time, either way. Does it actually matter? Not really. He and much of the Republican Party establishment will keep claiming that the election was stolen from him for tactical/propaganda reasons, regardless of how clear they've made it that they know that it's a pile of crap.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

23rd December 2021, 12:20 AM	#133
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 29,447	Yes, he did. He needs to send nasty, insulting tweets to himself. Oh, wait....

23rd December 2021, 02:10 AM	#134
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 33,280	Originally Posted by The Don What's the alternative ? Let him off scot-free ? Given he owns SCOTUS, where final appeals could end up, I don't believe he will ever face consequences anyway, so yes, let it go. I don't believe anything he's done is as bad as things we know for certain he's done before, so no conviction will change the minds of those who vote for him. In the words of Micehelle Obama: Be Better.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

23rd December 2021, 02:34 AM	#135
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 36,404	Originally Posted by The Atheist Given he owns SCOTUS, where final appeals could end up, I don't believe he will ever face consequences anyway, so yes, let it go. I don't believe anything he's done is as bad as things we know for certain he's done before, so no conviction will change the minds of those who vote for him. In the words of Micehelle Obama: Be Better. Well I suppose that's a point of view. IMO that sends a clear message that, if you're prepared to brazen things out and delay proceedings long enough, the rule of law does not apply. When that message is received, the GOP will come to the conclusion that they will never face any consequences for any of their actions and that they now "own" the country. I think that's a dangerous message to send - YMMV.

23rd December 2021, 03:10 AM	#136
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 29,447	Originally Posted by The Don Well I suppose that's a point of view. IMO that sends a clear message that, if you're prepared to brazen things out and delay proceedings long enough, the rule of law does not apply. When that message is received, the GOP will come to the conclusion that they will never face any consequences for any of their actions and that they now "own" the country. I think that's a dangerous message to send - YMMV. I could not agree with you more. It was the same thing with the two impeachments. They clearly sent the message that it doesn't matter what you do, if you're powerful enough, you can get away with anything. Obviously, Trump believed that when he said " And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything," and he's been proved right. At least so far. Dropping this would just cement that belief in those that follow. He MUST be held accountable for his actions and crimes or any pretense that we are all equal before the law might as well just be flushed down the toilet.

23rd December 2021, 08:36 AM	#137
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 19,705	Originally Posted by The Atheist Quote: What's the alternative ? Let him off scot-free ? Given he owns SCOTUS, where final appeals could end up, I don't believe he will ever face consequences anyway, so yes, let it go. Does he really "own the Supreme court"? Yes, the supreme court should now be viewed as a bunch of partisan hacks interested in pushing an agenda that appeals only to a minority of voters. But I think their allegiance is aimed mostly at right-wing policies, rather than Trump himself. (Not that they would shy away from helping Trump, but they would have to be smart about things. And they have ruled against him in the past.) Quote: I don't believe anything he's done is as bad as things we know for certain he's done before, so no conviction will change the minds of those who vote for him. The hardcore MAGAchuds will never be convinced otherwise. The hope is that there are some marginal voters who may have voted Trump in the past, who might start to think "Whoa! A convictinon? I didn't think he was that bad. Maybe I should not support him anymore".
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

23rd December 2021, 08:40 AM	#138
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 43,144	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Does he really "own the Supreme court"? Errr... sorta yeah. Without semantics the point has 3 hand picked toadies on the court who are going to (most of the time, rare, mostly meaningless exceptions will happen) vote for him on a personal level instead of voting legally, on their conscious, or even with a traditional political bias.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

23rd December 2021, 03:57 PM	#140
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 33,280	Originally Posted by The Don IMO that sends a clear message that, if you're prepared to brazen things out and delay proceedings long enough, the rule of law does not apply. Remind me again, in spite of numerous cases of fraud, racism, slander, libel, illegal use of public funds and using the office of POTUS for personal gain, how many times he's been convicted to date? Two impeachments failed, he's never been held accountable for anything in his disgusting life. What makes you think it might happen now, on probably the most spurious charges that could be brought? As long as the opposing team keeps focusing on him instead of getting their own **** together nothing will stop his re-election.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

23rd December 2021, 05:11 PM	#141
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 19,705	Originally Posted by The Atheist Remind me again, in spite of numerous cases of fraud, racism, slander, libel, illegal use of public funds and using the office of POTUS for personal gain, how many times he's been convicted to date? He hasn't been sentenced to criminal charges, but remember that he and/or his klan have lost civil cases (such as over Trump university), so he's not totally invulnerable. Now, you may be right to be pessimistic. Maybe he will always find a way (a friendly judge, corrupt politicians, etc.) to avoid being held accountable. But that doesn't necessarily mean it is a mistake to go after him for his criminal activity. Best case scenario, they actually manage to charge and convict him. (Its not outside the realm of possibility.... after all, we have heard of other rich people getting charged after years of criminal activity? (Ghislaine Maxwell as an example.) And even in the worst case scenario, even if he manages to avoid any sort of prosecution/conviction, it is still at least an annoyance for him (if not a major headache). He has to pay for lawyers (after all, he can't stiff them all...), take time out of his schedule of grifting others to deal with court cases, etc. Quote: As long as the opposing team keeps focusing on him instead of getting their own **** together nothing will stop his re-election. Why does it have to be an either/or? Legal charges are brought by prosecutors. There is nothing keeping politicians from running their campaigns while prosecutors do their work.
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

27th December 2021, 02:09 PM	#142
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 9,782	To poke at one of the ongoing aftereffects of Trump - 'I hope your family dies in front of you': Rep. Dingell responds to the cruelty Trump has wrought Example - Quote: VOICEMAIL TO REP. DINGELL: “You goddamn old senile bitch. You’re as old and ugly as Biden. You ought to get the ** off the planet. You *** foul bitch. They ought to *** try you for treason, bitch. You and every one of your scumbag ***** friends. I hope your family dies in front of you. I pray to God if you’ve got any children, they die in your face.” From a discussion on the topic - Quote: DINGELL: “I’ve been getting those for a couple of years.” BASH: “A couple of years?” DINGELL: “A couple of years, ever since, at Christmastime, the Christmas right after John [Dingell, Rep. Debbie Dingell’s late husband and a former congressman] had died, President Trump was in Michigan. … Once you’re in that Trump hate tunnel, you kind of don’t escape it. There are a lot of good people out there who are really wonderful to me, etc., but we average several of those a week. And, you know, we’re used to it. … My friends look at me, I play them, and it’s almost like therapy, and they say, ‘How can you do this?’ But you have to, we’ve got to be careful not to normalize it, but I’m not going to not do my job. I’m not going to go out and not be with people. I’m not going to go out and not listen to them. I want the American people to think about what’s happening in our country. That this kind of hate, this fear, is happening in communities across the country. You know, if you even look at the horrific shooting that killed children in our state … he was living with parents that had some of that. We need to really worry about our democracy and find a way that you can disagree with people and do it in a civil and agreeable way. And it really does have me very worried.”
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

27th December 2021, 03:39 PM	#143
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 29,447	Originally Posted by Aridas To poke at one of the ongoing aftereffects of Trump - 'I hope your family dies in front of you': Rep. Dingell responds to the cruelty Trump has wrought Example - From a discussion on the topic - Sometimes...hell, most of the time nowadays, I really, really dislike people in general.

27th December 2021, 04:50 PM	#144
The Man Unbanned zombie poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY Posts: 17,133	Well, it's started again. I just received my "2022 CONGRSSIONAL DISRICT CANVASS" "Commissioned by the Republican Party" with the typical loaded questions. As usual with the notations like "Registered Document" and "Do Not Destroy" it went right into the shredder. At least now they're not claiming it's a "Census" requiring some processing fee. Though I expect there still was some other strong push for a donation or "Fee" (didn't look at that part).
	__________________ BRAINZZZZZZZZ

27th December 2021, 05:02 PM	#145
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 29,447	Originally Posted by The Man Well, it's started again. I just received my "2022 CONGRSSIONAL DISRICT CANVASS" "Commissioned by the Republican Party" with the typical loaded questions. As usual with the notations like "Registered Document" and "Do Not Destroy" it went right into the shredder. At least now they're not claiming it's a "Census" requiring some processing fee. Though I expect there still was some other strong push for a donation or "Fee" (didn't look at that part). I'd say your expectation is more than solidly based.

27th December 2021, 05:12 PM	#146
Warp12 Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 7,583	Originally Posted by Aridas To poke at one of the ongoing aftereffects of Trump - 'I hope your family dies in front of you': Rep. Dingell responds to the cruelty Trump has wrought Example - From a discussion on the topic - This makes me laugh. Not because I think people should be so mean and toxic...but because of the garbage and hate that gets spewed in this very forum. But, you know, that's okay...because conservatives are bad, and all.

27th December 2021, 05:28 PM	#147
Venom Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 6,093	Originally Posted by Warp12 This makes me laugh. Not because I think people should be so mean and toxic...but because of the garbage and hate that gets spewed in this very forum. But, you know, that's okay...because conservatives are bad, and all. If Trump is your standard for being a "conservative", you're in deep trouble. I think you know that being a conservative alone is not what draws the hostility.

27th December 2021, 05:31 PM	#148
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 32,506	Originally Posted by Venom If Trump is your standard for being a "conservative", you're in deep trouble. I think you know that being a conservative alone is not what draws the hostility. I'm pretty sure trolls don't really care about such nuance.
	__________________ 1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.

27th December 2021, 05:35 PM	#149
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 29,447	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken I'm pretty sure trolls don't really care about such nuance.

27th December 2021, 05:37 PM	#150
Warp12 Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 7,583	Originally Posted by Venom If Trump is your standard for being a "conservative", you're in deep trouble. I think you know that being a conservative alone is not what draws the hostility. If you think the hate here is limited to Trump, and not often spewed towards conservatives in a blanket fashion...well, I would call that denial. But, hey, whatever you say. I am not expecting anyone to have an introspective moment, in this place. That ship sailed a long time ago. Along with most of the members, it seems.

27th December 2021, 06:03 PM	#151
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 34,288	Originally Posted by Warp12 This makes me laugh. Not because I think people should be so mean and toxic...but because of the garbage and hate that gets spewed in this very forum. But, you know, that's okay...because conservatives are bad, and all. I agree to a degree that one should not rise to the bait, even of those who in their wickedness realize that the things they do which are wrong can only be countered by similar wrongs for which they can then condemn their victims with convenient disregard for what went befare. But even in the vengeful utterances we sometimes see here I cannot recall anyone, even those I believe have gone way too far, expressing to an individual tthe hope that their children die in front of them. Even you, I think, might, if you stopped to think, might relax your customary rationalization and admit that this goes beyond mere nasty rhetoric. I truly believe that people who can utter such things anyehere but in feverish solitude are dangerously deranged and unworthy of the good opinion of anyone who purports to deserve any respect this side of Hell. Eta by which if you don't get my drift, I mean that no comparative excuse can provide an excuse. You are on record as saying that failure to condemn is tantamount to approval. I do not consider a mealy-mouthed "they're all bad"whataboutism suffices here.
	__________________ Like many humorless and indignant people, he is hard on everybody but himself, and does not perceive it when he fails his own ideal (Molière) A pedant is a man who studies a vacuum through instruments that allow him to draw cross-sections of the details (John Ciardi) Last edited by bruto; 27th December 2021 at 06:09 PM. Reason: Tablet typing errors

27th December 2021, 06:11 PM	#152
Warp12 Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 7,583	Originally Posted by bruto I agree to a degree that one should not rise to the bait, even of those who in their wickedness realize that the things they do which are wrong can only be countered by similar wrongs for which they can then condemn their victims with convenient disregard for what went befare. But even in the vengeful utterances we sometimes see here I cannot recall anyone, even those I believe have gone way too far, expressing to an individual tthe hope that their children die in front of them. Even you, I think, might, if you stopped to think, might relax your customary rationalization and admit that this goes beyond mere nasty rhetoric. I truly believe that people who can utter such things anyehere but in feverish solitude are dangerously deranged and unworthy of the good opinion of anyone who purports to deserve any respect this side of Hell. Meh. If people are willing to escalate hatred, but then whine when it exceeds their personal threshold of acceptability...I say, **** 'em. Give them what they peddle, and in spades.
	Last edited by Warp12; 27th December 2021 at 06:12 PM.

27th December 2021, 06:13 PM	#153
Venom Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 6,093	Originally Posted by Warp12 If you think the hate here is limited to Trump, and not often spewed towards conservatives in a blanket fashion...well, I would call that denial. There are relatively conservative members who have spewed "hate" towards much of the modern GOP. Why do you think that is. Hate doesn't have to be balanced to be objective. Originally Posted by Warp12 But, hey, whatever you say. I am not expecting anyone to have an introspective moment, in this place. That ship sailed a long time ago. Along with most of the members, it seems. lmao

27th December 2021, 06:19 PM	#154
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 34,288	Sorry I was a bit late with a "eta" here, but wiil just add that if you think this is merely a comparative escalation of bad taste, I think you are missing something very important. I'll leave it at htat.
	__________________ Like many humorless and indignant people, he is hard on everybody but himself, and does not perceive it when he fails his own ideal (Molière) A pedant is a man who studies a vacuum through instruments that allow him to draw cross-sections of the details (John Ciardi)

27th December 2021, 07:29 PM	#155
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 29,447	I just watched a very interesting program on Trump including interviews with mental health professionals about his mental disorders and why and how he appealed to so many people. Historians compare his rise to how Mussolini was 'invited in by the ruling elite" and how they thought they could control him (think 2016 and today's GOP leadership) and with Hitler and his use of scapegoats (think immigration). They discuss how he uses the same techniques as Mussolini and Hitler in fostering a sense of victimization and fear and by removing a certain element (the scapegoat), it will make the country better and their lives better. He repeats things 3 times at rallies and gets the audience to repeat it. It then becomes fact to them. Interviews with those who know him reveal who he really is. It was made when Trump was still in office 2018) but is still relevant considering the grip he still has on the GOP. Although they focus on his control of nuclear weapons, etc., we know his real dangerousness was/is his attack on our democracy. It's fascinating and I highly recommend it. Unfit: The Psychology of Donald Trump (about 1.5 hours) Available on Youtube (in 7 parts) and Amazon Prime.
	Last edited by Stacyhs; 27th December 2021 at 07:30 PM.

27th December 2021, 09:02 PM	#156
Regnad Kcin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The old Same place Posts: 10,792	Originally Posted by Warp12 This makes me laugh. Not because I think people should be so mean and toxic...but because of the garbage and hate that gets spewed in this very forum. But, you know, that's okay...because conservatives are bad, and all. Troll, troll, troll your boat..
	__________________ My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.