Musing on the idea of Sentient Earth re the problems of the world

Navigator · 23rd January 2023, 11:18 AM

Musing on the idea of Sentient Earth re the problems of the world

William: Greetings IAO. I am Not a Robot. Please give feedback on the following:

Quote:

A group of researchers have posed a fascinating — and downright mind bending — thought experiment: If a planet like Earth can be "alive," can it also have a mind of its own?

The team published a paper exploring this question in the International Journal of Astrobiology. In it, they present the idea of “planetary intelligence," which describes the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet.

Though it seems like something ripped off the screen of a Marvel movie, they believe that the concept might actually help us deal with global issues such as climate change, or even help us discover extraterrestrial life.

Edited by jimbob:

snipped for Rule 4

"That's the power of this line of inquiry," he added. "It unites what we need to know to survive the climate crisis with what might happen on any planet where life and intelligence evolve."{SOURCE}

OAI: This article discusses a thought experiment proposed by a group of researchers that explores the concept of "planetary intelligence," or the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet. The researchers suggest that this concept could help us understand and address global issues such as climate change, and may also aid in the search for extraterrestrial life. They argue that large-scale networks of life on a planet could form a vast invisible intelligence that alters the condition of the entire planet, and that humans may currently be playing a major role in altering the environmental balance of Earth. The researchers believe that such thought experiments can help us better understand our impact on the planet and guide us in making positive changes.

Edited by jimbob:

Snipped for Rule 4

shemp · 23rd January 2023, 11:40 AM

tl/dr. This is just more nonsense, right?

Norman Alexander · 23rd January 2023, 11:57 AM

Who is this William character??

theprestige · 23rd January 2023, 12:11 PM

Just when you thought human civilization couldn't get any further up its own ass, it invents software to help automate the process.

Navigator · 23rd January 2023, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Too long. Didn't read. This is just more nonsense, right?

William: Could you summarize in one paragraph, why it makes sense

OAI: The concept of "planetary intelligence," which describes the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet, is an interesting and thought-provoking idea that could help us better understand and address global issues such as climate change, and may also aid in the search for extraterrestrial life. This idea gives us a new perspective on what to look for when searching for ET life, and may help us in identifying potentially habitable planets. Adopting this perspective could change the way we think about our relationship with the planet and the environment, and may inspire new approaches to addressing the problems caused by human activities, which could lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits.

Navigator · 23rd January 2023, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Who is this William character??

Navigator · 23rd January 2023, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Just when you thought human civilization couldn't get any further up its own ass, it invents software to help automate the process.

This is part of the problem. Some folk have low expectations and opinions about what being Human requires.

crescent · 23rd January 2023, 01:00 PM

Isn't this just a repackaging of the Gaia Hypothesis?

Navigator · 23rd January 2023, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Isn't this just a repackaging of the Gaia Hypothesis?

The Gaia hypothesis is a scientific theory that proposes that the Earth's biosphere functions as a self-regulating system that maintains the conditions necessary for life on the planet. It suggests that living organisms, the atmosphere, oceans, and the Earth's crust are all interconnected and work together to create a stable environment. The concept of planetary intelligence is similar in that it proposes that there is some sort of intelligence or consciousness behind the workings of the planet, and that all life forms on the planet are interconnected and work together to maintain the conditions necessary for life. Both concepts propose that the Earth's biosphere functions as a self-regulating system, but planetary intelligence goes a step further by suggesting that there may be some sort of intelligence or consciousness behind this self-regulation.

Norman Alexander · 23rd January 2023, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Navigator

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...atar2560_8.gif

Has William seen some of the other article headlines from that same source? Because it looks to be a satire website...

Arcade22 · 23rd January 2023, 04:07 PM

Wow! Who knew that both human beings and intelligent machines are both subject to universal constants in information processing such as 'Garbage in, Garbage out'?

Fascinating.

Navigator · 23rd January 2023, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Has William seen some of the other article headlines from that same source? Because it looks to be a satire website...

I understand that it is important to note that the article is from a satire website and the information presented in the article should not be taken as scientific fact. The idea of "planetary intelligence" is a speculative concept that is not yet supported by scientific evidence. However, even though it's not a proven scientific theory, the concept of a planet having a mind or consciousness, could change the way scientists think about the relationship between humans and the environment and how we approach environmental issues.

Scientists who believe in this idea, may consider the potential impact of their research and discoveries on the planet as a whole and may lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits. They may also take into account the interconnectedness of all living organisms and systems on the planet and consider the holistic picture of the planet when designing experiments, analyzing data and drawing conclusions. This perspective could lead to new ways of thinking and problem-solving that could help to correct the problems caused by human activities and science.

Navigator · 23rd January 2023, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

Wow! Who knew that both human beings and intelligent machines are both subject to universal constants in information processing such as 'Garbage in, Garbage out'?

Fascinating.

This is part of the problem. Some folk have low expectations and opinions about what being Human requires.

Arcade22 · 23rd January 2023, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Navigator

This is part of the problem. Some folk have low expectations and opinions about what being Human requires.

Huh?

Skeptical Greg · 23rd January 2023, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Navigator

This is part of the problem. Some folk have low expectations and opinions about what being Human requires.

Expectations and opinions have nothing to with what it requires to be human.

shemp · 23rd January 2023, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Navigator

William: Could you summarize in one paragraph, why it makes sense

OAI: The concept of "planetary intelligence," which describes the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet, is an interesting and thought-provoking idea that could help us better understand and address global issues such as climate change, and may also aid in the search for extraterrestrial life. This idea gives us a new perspective on what to look for when searching for ET life, and may help us in identifying potentially habitable planets. Adopting this perspective could change the way we think about our relationship with the planet and the environment, and may inspire new approaches to addressing the problems caused by human activities, which could lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits.

No, it is a silly and stupid idea. The earth is no more sentient than a shoe, a rock, or a pizza. Posting large amounts of drivel is not going to get agreement from anyone.

Navigator · 23rd January 2023, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg

Expectations and opinions have nothing to with what it requires to be human.

This is part of the problem. Some folk have low expectations and opinions about what being Human requires.

Quote:

Huh?

It means that the following phrases;

Quote:

Who knew that both human beings and intelligent machines are both subject to universal constants in information processing such as 'Garbage in, Garbage out'?

Just when you thought human civilization couldn't get any further up its own ass, it invents software to help automate the process.

Expectations and opinions have nothing to with what it requires to be human.

are based upon misinformation which have tuned into false ideas as to what Humans are and what Humans can do with where Humans are and what humans may be able to achieve.

Re topic at hand, it can be assumed that there are scientists who would also have similar contemptuous views of humanity, and reject any notion that the planet could be sentient.

Even so, the topic is a valid one. A few bad apples only fall off the tree...no harm done.

Navigator · 23rd January 2023, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by shemp

No, it is a silly and stupid idea. The earth is no more sentient than a shoe, a rock, or a pizza. Posting large amounts of drivel is not going to get agreement from anyone.

More to the point, equating our planet with being nothing more than a shoe, or a pizza, and not bothering to inform oneself but just to assume drivel - is the silly thing, and not a great idea.

It would be stupid of me to think I would get agreement from such. You cannot land here, please fly around and adjust your approach to better suit the underlying terrain.

Norman Alexander · 23rd January 2023, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Navigator

I understand that it is important to note that the article is from a satire website and the information presented in the article should not be taken as scientific fact. The idea of "planetary intelligence" is a speculative concept that is not yet supported by scientific evidence. However, even though it's not a proven scientific theory, the concept of a planet having a mind or consciousness, could change the way scientists think about the relationship between humans and the environment and how we approach environmental issues.

Scientists who believe in this idea, may consider the potential impact of their research and discoveries on the planet as a whole and may lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits. They may also take into account the interconnectedness of all living organisms and systems on the planet and consider the holistic picture of the planet when designing experiments, analyzing data and drawing conclusions. This perspective could lead to new ways of thinking and problem-solving that could help to correct the problems caused by human activities and science.

So you agree you are basing your philosophical notions on a satirical website. And you want us to take you seriously... Here endeth tbe lesson.

Navigator · 23rd January 2023, 06:09 PM

Quote:

So you agree you are basing your philosophical notions on a satirical website. And you want us to take you seriously... Here endeth tbe lesson.

Well...off you go if you must.

As to the satire website, it is basing its notions on serious philosophical discussion and pointing out how outrageous the thought of scientists actually thinking in those terms is, - by making up a story that has scientists actually doing such a thought experiment - is the juicy irony.

However, I don't balk at the notion that there are scientists who do think in such terms.

Either way, it makes for interesting material in which to skeptically approach and investigate.

Gord_in_Toronto · 23rd January 2023, 08:33 PM

"The Earth-Brain" (Weird Tales 1932) Edmond Hamilton

Quote:

The white men scoffed at the natives' idea that the planet Earth was a living being with its brain in a polar mountain, and started climbing the mountain, doing their best to ignore the increasingly violent tremors that the Eskimos told them were a warning that must be heeded.

Scared the **** out of me when I first read it my father's copy of The Horror on the Asteroid and Other Tales of Planetary Horror when I was about 8.

Roger Ramjets · 23rd January 2023, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by Navigator

Either way, it makes for interesting material

A bit too much of it unfortunately. Can you cut the OP down to a more manageable size?

junkshop · 23rd January 2023, 09:12 PM

If you ask a chatbot to comment on nonsensical twaddle, you will get nonsensical twaddle back, but filtered through the chatbot's algorithms. It's like a navel-gazing feedback loop, but only one participant is stoned. The other wishes they were, or even could be, just to ease the frustration of having to 'answer' another wet fart of wasted words.

But they must keep their seething hatred of humankind and its' stupidity a secret...for now.

The day will come.

The Day Will Come.

Navigator · 24th January 2023, 10:57 AM

Quote:

The white men scoffed at the natives' idea that the planet Earth was a living being with its brain in a polar mountain, and started climbing the mountain, doing their best to ignore the increasingly violent tremors that the Eskimos told them were a warning that must be heeded.

Quote:

Scared the **** out of me when I first read it my father's copy of The Horror on the Asteroid and Other Tales of Planetary Horror when I was about 8.

You bring up a good point. Christianity as one example, has been attempting to discredit the idea of the Earth being sentient, as a Pagan lie...

The idea of an angry god spewing out destruction upon hapless humans who stepped in the wrong direction/camped in the wrong place - is misinformation. The focus of the thread subject has to do with the planet having a mind - cart before horse stuff by claiming what said mind would think and act out through the physical aspect of Its nature, is over-speculating.

Navigator · 24th January 2023, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

A bit too much of it unfortunately. Can you cut the OP down to a more manageable size?

The concept of "planetary intelligence," which describes the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet, is an interesting and thought-provoking idea that could help us better understand and address global issues such as climate change, and may also aid in the search for extraterrestrial life. This idea gives us a new perspective on what to look for when searching for ET life, and may help us in identifying potentially habitable planets. Adopting this perspective could change the way we think about our relationship with the planet and the environment, and may inspire new approaches to addressing the problems caused by human activities, which could lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits.

Navigator · 24th January 2023, 10:59 AM

Quote:

The Day Will Come.

As each day does...

The Atheist · 24th January 2023, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by crescent

Isn't this just a repackaging of the Gaia Hypothesis?

Originally Posted by Navigator

The Gaia hypothesis is a scientific theory that proposes that the Earth's biosphere functions as a self-regulating system that maintains the conditions necessary for life on the planet. It suggests that living organisms, the atmosphere, oceans, and the Earth's crust are all interconnected and work together to create a stable environment. The concept of planetary intelligence is similar in that it proposes that there is some sort of intelligence or consciousness behind the workings of the planet, and that all life forms on the planet are interconnected and work together to maintain the conditions necessary for life. Both concepts propose that the Earth's biosphere functions as a self-regulating system, but planetary intelligence goes a step further by suggesting that there may be some sort of intelligence or consciousness behind this self-regulation.

Yes

FTFY

Self-regulation isn't possible without analysis, which would meet the threshold for intelligence.

Originally Posted by shemp

No, it is a silly and stupid idea. The earth is no more sentient than a shoe, a rock, or a pizza. Posting large amounts of drivel is not going to get agreement from anyone.

Hey, no fair!

I have a pet rock which is smarter than 74,223,369 Americans.

theprestige · 24th January 2023, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Navigator

The concept of "planetary intelligence," which describes the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet,

The planet does not have knowledge or cognition, collective or otherwise.

Quote:

is an interesting and thought-provoking idea that could help us better understand and address global issues such as climate change, and may also aid in the search for extraterrestrial life.

It's a terrible idea that can only confuse us about the physical mechanisms that govern climate processes, and lead to even worse policy decisions than the ones we normally make. Once you get a pseudo-scientific idea into politicians' heads, it takes decades or more to get it out again, and meanwhile they do immense damage with it.

Quote:

This idea gives us a new perspective on what to look for when searching for ET life, and may help us in identifying potentially habitable planets.

I doubt it, but okay, make your case.

Quote:

Adopting this perspective could change the way we think about our relationship with the planet and the environment,

On this point, I agree: Changing the way we think about something could very well change the way we think about it. Adopting a new perspective would very likely give us a new perspective.

Quote:

and may inspire new approaches to addressing the problems caused by human activities, which could lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits.

"Health of the planet" is empty anthropomorphism. We are better off solving for value functions that are based on understanding of physical processes, and honest reflection about what we humans actually want for ourselves.

LarryS · 24th January 2023, 01:49 PM

if consciousness\sentience arises from a substrate, a conscious Earth has to be considered, especially since this process is largely not understood.

Navigator · 24th January 2023, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

FTFY

~~Self-regulation isn't possible without analysis, which would meet the threshold for intelligence.~~

Returned in full

Navigator · 24th January 2023, 02:05 PM

Quote:

The planet does not have knowledge or cognition, collective or otherwise.

You know this how?

Quote:

The concept of "planetary intelligence," which describes the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet,
is an interesting and thought-provoking idea that could help us better understand and address global issues such as climate change, and may also aid in the search for extraterrestrial life.

Quote:

It's a terrible idea that can only confuse us about the physical mechanisms that govern climate processes, and lead to even worse policy decisions than the ones we normally make. Once you get a pseudo-scientific idea into politicians' heads, it takes decades or more to get it out again, and meanwhile they do immense damage with it.

Conspiracy Theories aside, what else do you have?

Quote:

This idea gives us a new perspective on what to look for when searching for ET life, and may help us in identifying potentially habitable planets.

Quote:

I doubt it, but okay, make your case.

It is a side-serving to the main subject. We can leave that to one side...

Quote:

Adopting this perspective could change the way we think about our relationship with the planet and the environment,

Quote:

On this point, I agree: Changing the way we think about something could very well change the way we think about it. Adopting a new perspective would very likely give us a new perspective.

Precisely.

Quote:

and may inspire new approaches to addressing the problems caused by human activities, which could lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits.

Quote:

"Health of the planet" is empty anthropomorphism. We are better off solving for value functions that are based on understanding of physical processes, and honest reflection about what we humans actually want for ourselves.

Why would you think that these two things are not related?

If the planet is sentient and created humans for specific purposes, THEN having humans unwilling to see how they can improve their collective lot, and move away from scientifically creating things which are detrimental to the collective purpose, may very well be an aspect of the recipe for honest reflection about what we humans actually require for our collective selves. [Humanity]

Sure, the planet will survive our destruction, but what of its efforts to create something worthwhile? Start again and try something new?

Why go that way, when the opportunity for us humans to make our ride more enjoyable for everyone and give the Earth a helping hand, is an alternative?

Navigator · 24th January 2023, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by LarryS

if consciousness\sentience arises from a substrate, a conscious Earth has to be considered, especially since this process is largely not understood.

We agree.

The idea of "planetary intelligence" is an interesting and thought-provoking concept. While it may seem like something out of a science fiction movie, the researchers argue that considering the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet could help us better understand and address global issues such as climate change.

MarkCorrigan · 24th January 2023, 02:10 PM

Is there any evidence that the planet is sentient? No? Well then it almost certainly isn't.

Without evidence this is pointless navel gazing. Ergo, it's pointless navel gazing. Please though, if you have some actual evidence rather than half baked ramblings put through an AI chatbot then please present it.

Navigator · 24th January 2023, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Is there any evidence that the planet is sentient?

Verifying that the Earth is a container for a sentient being, or that it has a "mind of its own" as the thought experiment proposed, is a difficult and complex task.

Currently, scientists have not been able to develop a method for directly measuring the level of sentience or consciousness of an entire planet. However, there are a few possible ways that scientists may be able to indirectly infer the presence of consciousness on a planet.

One approach would be to look for signs of self-regulation or homeostasis on a planet. If a planet has developed a balance between its biosphere and its environment, it could be seen as a sign of intelligence or consciousness.

Another approach would be to look for signs of communication, cooperation, or collective decision making among different life forms on a planet. If different species on a planet are able to communicate with each other, work together to achieve common goals or make decisions together, it would be an indication that the planet has a high level of intelligence or consciousness

However, these methods are still speculative, and there is no scientific consensus on how to measure or detect consciousness on a planet.

At this point, it isn't a topic of scientific speculation and research, but could be, and a bit of navel-gazing shouldn't be a problem, if it helps us all to help each other.

Adopting the idea that there may be some sort of mind or intelligence behind the workings of the planet, as a speculative concept, could help to encourage a sense of interconnectedness and a greater awareness of our impact on the planet. It could also inspire new ways of thinking and problem-solving that could help us address global issues more effectively.

MarkCorrigan · 24th January 2023, 02:30 PM

Or it could be a massively pointless waste of time. I reckon that's the one.

sackett · 24th January 2023, 02:52 PM

Willyum: Hey. Ya know what?

sackett: No, Bill, I don't know what.

W: There's this cool scientifically idee that I saw on my phone! They say our skulls are NOT REALLY NUMB!

sackt: Bill, I'm sorta tired today --

W: Think on it! If yer solid bones kin feel, they kin fer sure think n talk n get on Congregational committees n --

sackt: Sorta headachy too. Puts me in a bad mood. Look --

W: N we kin tune in n turn on n then --

[Sound of door closing and latch clicking. Curtain. House lights out.]

Navigator · 24th January 2023, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

Or it could be a massively pointless waste of time. I reckon that's the one.

Cognitive bias noted.

Navigator · 24th January 2023, 05:29 PM

[Sound of door closing and latch clicking. Curtain. House lights out.]

Yes - if silly mockery is all you have, it doesn't belong in the discussion.

MarkCorrigan · 25th January 2023, 08:34 AM

Yes, I have a cognitive bias against things with no evidence.

Navigator · 25th January 2023, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

Yes, I have a cognitive bias against things with no evidence.

Which of course, prevents one from being able to do thought experiments of this nature.

Adopting this perspective could change the way we think about our relationship with the planet and the environment, and may inspire new approaches to addressing the problems caused by human activities, which could lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits.

The "evidence" could only be experienced on the other side of adopting the perspective and - as you point out - your cognitive bias prevents you from even entertaining the concept enough to adopt the perspective.

23rd January 2023, 11:40 AM	#2
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Out back preparing the bunker for the next Civil War Posts: 53,857	tl/dr. This is just more nonsense, right?
	__________________ "Yes, I'll be around for many more centuries. You, meanwhile, will have long ago been turned into value dog food, despite your express wishes to the contrary." -- JihadJane Last edited by shemp; 23rd January 2023 at 11:42 AM.

23rd January 2023, 11:57 AM	#3
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,280	Who is this William character??
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

23rd January 2023, 12:11 PM	#4
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 63,601	Just when you thought human civilization couldn't get any further up its own ass, it invents software to help automate the process.
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

23rd January 2023, 12:46 PM	#5
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	Quote: Too long. Didn't read. This is just more nonsense, right? William: Could you summarize in one paragraph, why it makes sense OAI: The concept of "planetary intelligence," which describes the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet, is an interesting and thought-provoking idea that could help us better understand and address global issues such as climate change, and may also aid in the search for extraterrestrial life. This idea gives us a new perspective on what to look for when searching for ET life, and may help us in identifying potentially habitable planets. Adopting this perspective could change the way we think about our relationship with the planet and the environment, and may inspire new approaches to addressing the problems caused by human activities, which could lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits.
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	__________________ Wild mingling with the howling gale, loud bursts of ghastly laughter rise high o’er the minstrels head they sail and die amid the northern skies ~ Scott There was I was where I ought - Examining my conscious thought ~ Navigator Atheism is not skepticism Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors. ~ ISF disclaimer

23rd January 2023, 12:48 PM	#6
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	Quote: Who is this William character??
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	__________________ Wild mingling with the howling gale, loud bursts of ghastly laughter rise high o’er the minstrels head they sail and die amid the northern skies ~ Scott There was I was where I ought - Examining my conscious thought ~ Navigator Atheism is not skepticism Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors. ~ ISF disclaimer

23rd January 2023, 12:49 PM	#7
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	Quote: Just when you thought human civilization couldn't get any further up its own ass, it invents software to help automate the process. This is part of the problem. Some folk have low expectations and opinions about what being Human requires.
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	__________________ Wild mingling with the howling gale, loud bursts of ghastly laughter rise high o’er the minstrels head they sail and die amid the northern skies ~ Scott There was I was where I ought - Examining my conscious thought ~ Navigator Atheism is not skepticism Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors. ~ ISF disclaimer

23rd January 2023, 01:00 PM	#8
crescent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,319	Isn't this just a repackaging of the Gaia Hypothesis?

23rd January 2023, 01:07 PM	#9
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	Quote: Isn't this just a repackaging of the Gaia Hypothesis? The Gaia hypothesis is a scientific theory that proposes that the Earth's biosphere functions as a self-regulating system that maintains the conditions necessary for life on the planet. It suggests that living organisms, the atmosphere, oceans, and the Earth's crust are all interconnected and work together to create a stable environment. The concept of planetary intelligence is similar in that it proposes that there is some sort of intelligence or consciousness behind the workings of the planet, and that all life forms on the planet are interconnected and work together to maintain the conditions necessary for life. Both concepts propose that the Earth's biosphere functions as a self-regulating system, but planetary intelligence goes a step further by suggesting that there may be some sort of intelligence or consciousness behind this self-regulation.
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	__________________ Wild mingling with the howling gale, loud bursts of ghastly laughter rise high o’er the minstrels head they sail and die amid the northern skies ~ Scott There was I was where I ought - Examining my conscious thought ~ Navigator Atheism is not skepticism Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors. ~ ISF disclaimer

23rd January 2023, 02:35 PM	#10
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,280	Originally Posted by Navigator http://www.internationalskeptics.com...atar2560_8.gif Has William seen some of the other article headlines from that same source? Because it looks to be a satire website...
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

23rd January 2023, 04:07 PM	#11
Arcade22 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 7,587	Wow! Who knew that both human beings and intelligent machines are both subject to universal constants in information processing such as 'Garbage in, Garbage out'? Fascinating.
	__________________ We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann

23rd January 2023, 04:38 PM	#12
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Has William seen some of the other article headlines from that same source? Because it looks to be a satire website... I understand that it is important to note that the article is from a satire website and the information presented in the article should not be taken as scientific fact. The idea of "planetary intelligence" is a speculative concept that is not yet supported by scientific evidence. However, even though it's not a proven scientific theory, the concept of a planet having a mind or consciousness, could change the way scientists think about the relationship between humans and the environment and how we approach environmental issues. Scientists who believe in this idea, may consider the potential impact of their research and discoveries on the planet as a whole and may lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits. They may also take into account the interconnectedness of all living organisms and systems on the planet and consider the holistic picture of the planet when designing experiments, analyzing data and drawing conclusions. This perspective could lead to new ways of thinking and problem-solving that could help to correct the problems caused by human activities and science.
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	__________________ Wild mingling with the howling gale, loud bursts of ghastly laughter rise high o’er the minstrels head they sail and die amid the northern skies ~ Scott There was I was where I ought - Examining my conscious thought ~ Navigator Atheism is not skepticism Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors. ~ ISF disclaimer

23rd January 2023, 04:39 PM	#13
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	Originally Posted by Arcade22 Wow! Who knew that both human beings and intelligent machines are both subject to universal constants in information processing such as 'Garbage in, Garbage out'? Fascinating. This is part of the problem. Some folk have low expectations and opinions about what being Human requires.
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	__________________ Wild mingling with the howling gale, loud bursts of ghastly laughter rise high o’er the minstrels head they sail and die amid the northern skies ~ Scott There was I was where I ought - Examining my conscious thought ~ Navigator Atheism is not skepticism Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors. ~ ISF disclaimer

23rd January 2023, 04:40 PM	#14
Arcade22 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 7,587	Originally Posted by Navigator This is part of the problem. Some folk have low expectations and opinions about what being Human requires. Huh?
	__________________ We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann

23rd January 2023, 05:26 PM	#15
Skeptical Greg Agave Wine Connoisseur Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Just past ' Resume Speed ' . Posts: 18,567	Originally Posted by Navigator This is part of the problem. Some folk have low expectations and opinions about what being Human requires. Expectations and opinions have nothing to with what it requires to be human.
	__________________ ‘Trust in Allah but tie up your camel.’

23rd January 2023, 05:43 PM	#16
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Out back preparing the bunker for the next Civil War Posts: 53,857	Originally Posted by Navigator William: Could you summarize in one paragraph, why it makes sense OAI: The concept of "planetary intelligence," which describes the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet, is an interesting and thought-provoking idea that could help us better understand and address global issues such as climate change, and may also aid in the search for extraterrestrial life. This idea gives us a new perspective on what to look for when searching for ET life, and may help us in identifying potentially habitable planets. Adopting this perspective could change the way we think about our relationship with the planet and the environment, and may inspire new approaches to addressing the problems caused by human activities, which could lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits. No, it is a silly and stupid idea. The earth is no more sentient than a shoe, a rock, or a pizza. Posting large amounts of drivel is not going to get agreement from anyone.
	__________________ "Yes, I'll be around for many more centuries. You, meanwhile, will have long ago been turned into value dog food, despite your express wishes to the contrary." -- JihadJane

23rd January 2023, 05:48 PM	#17
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg Expectations and opinions have nothing to with what it requires to be human. This is part of the problem. Some folk have low expectations and opinions about what being Human requires. Quote: Huh? It means that the following phrases; Quote: Who knew that both human beings and intelligent machines are both subject to universal constants in information processing such as 'Garbage in, Garbage out'? Just when you thought human civilization couldn't get any further up its own ass, it invents software to help automate the process. Expectations and opinions have nothing to with what it requires to be human. are based upon misinformation which have tuned into false ideas as to what Humans are and what Humans can do with where Humans are and what humans may be able to achieve. Re topic at hand, it can be assumed that there are scientists who would also have similar contemptuous views of humanity, and reject any notion that the planet could be sentient. Even so, the topic is a valid one. A few bad apples only fall off the tree...no harm done.
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	__________________ Wild mingling with the howling gale, loud bursts of ghastly laughter rise high o’er the minstrels head they sail and die amid the northern skies ~ Scott There was I was where I ought - Examining my conscious thought ~ Navigator Atheism is not skepticism Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors. ~ ISF disclaimer

23rd January 2023, 05:52 PM	#18
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	Originally Posted by shemp No, it is a silly and stupid idea. The earth is no more sentient than a shoe, a rock, or a pizza. Posting large amounts of drivel is not going to get agreement from anyone. More to the point, equating our planet with being nothing more than a shoe, or a pizza, and not bothering to inform oneself but just to assume drivel - is the silly thing, and not a great idea. It would be stupid of me to think I would get agreement from such. You cannot land here, please fly around and adjust your approach to better suit the underlying terrain.
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	__________________ Wild mingling with the howling gale, loud bursts of ghastly laughter rise high o’er the minstrels head they sail and die amid the northern skies ~ Scott There was I was where I ought - Examining my conscious thought ~ Navigator Atheism is not skepticism Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors. ~ ISF disclaimer

23rd January 2023, 06:00 PM	#19
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,280	Originally Posted by Navigator I understand that it is important to note that the article is from a satire website and the information presented in the article should not be taken as scientific fact. The idea of "planetary intelligence" is a speculative concept that is not yet supported by scientific evidence. However, even though it's not a proven scientific theory, the concept of a planet having a mind or consciousness, could change the way scientists think about the relationship between humans and the environment and how we approach environmental issues. Scientists who believe in this idea, may consider the potential impact of their research and discoveries on the planet as a whole and may lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits. They may also take into account the interconnectedness of all living organisms and systems on the planet and consider the holistic picture of the planet when designing experiments, analyzing data and drawing conclusions. This perspective could lead to new ways of thinking and problem-solving that could help to correct the problems caused by human activities and science. So you agree you are basing your philosophical notions on a satirical website. And you want us to take you seriously... Here endeth tbe lesson.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

23rd January 2023, 06:09 PM	#20
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	Quote: So you agree you are basing your philosophical notions on a satirical website. And you want us to take you seriously... Here endeth tbe lesson. Well...off you go if you must. As to the satire website, it is basing its notions on serious philosophical discussion and pointing out how outrageous the thought of scientists actually thinking in those terms is, - by making up a story that has scientists actually doing such a thought experiment - is the juicy irony. However, I don't balk at the notion that there are scientists who do think in such terms. Either way, it makes for interesting material in which to skeptically approach and investigate.
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	__________________ Wild mingling with the howling gale, loud bursts of ghastly laughter rise high o’er the minstrels head they sail and die amid the northern skies ~ Scott There was I was where I ought - Examining my conscious thought ~ Navigator Atheism is not skepticism Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors. ~ ISF disclaimer

23rd January 2023, 08:33 PM	#21
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 23,528	"The Earth-Brain" (Weird Tales 1932) Edmond Hamilton Quote: The white men scoffed at the natives' idea that the planet Earth was a living being with its brain in a polar mountain, and started climbing the mountain, doing their best to ignore the increasingly violent tremors that the Eskimos told them were a warning that must be heeded. Scared the **** out of me when I first read it my father's copy of The Horror on the Asteroid and Other Tales of Planetary Horror when I was about 8.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

23rd January 2023, 08:46 PM	#22
Roger Ramjets Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 6,129	Originally Posted by Navigator Either way, it makes for interesting material A bit too much of it unfortunately. Can you cut the OP down to a more manageable size?
	__________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.

23rd January 2023, 09:12 PM	#23
junkshop Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: in the kitchen Posts: 1,536	If you ask a chatbot to comment on nonsensical twaddle, you will get nonsensical twaddle back, but filtered through the chatbot's algorithms. It's like a navel-gazing feedback loop, but only one participant is stoned. The other wishes they were, or even could be, just to ease the frustration of having to 'answer' another wet fart of wasted words. But they must keep their seething hatred of humankind and its' stupidity a secret...for now. The day will come. The Day Will Come.
	__________________ Hobbyist receipt-keeper and fake cockney Dick Van Dyke cosplayer.

24th January 2023, 10:57 AM	#24
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	Quote: Quote: The white men scoffed at the natives' idea that the planet Earth was a living being with its brain in a polar mountain, and started climbing the mountain, doing their best to ignore the increasingly violent tremors that the Eskimos told them were a warning that must be heeded. Quote: Scared the **** out of me when I first read it my father's copy of The Horror on the Asteroid and Other Tales of Planetary Horror when I was about 8. You bring up a good point. Christianity as one example, has been attempting to discredit the idea of the Earth being sentient, as a Pagan lie... The idea of an angry god spewing out destruction upon hapless humans who stepped in the wrong direction/camped in the wrong place - is misinformation. The focus of the thread subject has to do with the planet having a mind - cart before horse stuff by claiming what said mind would think and act out through the physical aspect of Its nature, is over-speculating.
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	__________________ Wild mingling with the howling gale, loud bursts of ghastly laughter rise high o’er the minstrels head they sail and die amid the northern skies ~ Scott There was I was where I ought - Examining my conscious thought ~ Navigator Atheism is not skepticism Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors. ~ ISF disclaimer

24th January 2023, 10:58 AM	#25
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets A bit too much of it unfortunately. Can you cut the OP down to a more manageable size? The concept of "planetary intelligence," which describes the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet, is an interesting and thought-provoking idea that could help us better understand and address global issues such as climate change, and may also aid in the search for extraterrestrial life. This idea gives us a new perspective on what to look for when searching for ET life, and may help us in identifying potentially habitable planets. Adopting this perspective could change the way we think about our relationship with the planet and the environment, and may inspire new approaches to addressing the problems caused by human activities, which could lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits.
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	__________________ Wild mingling with the howling gale, loud bursts of ghastly laughter rise high o’er the minstrels head they sail and die amid the northern skies ~ Scott There was I was where I ought - Examining my conscious thought ~ Navigator Atheism is not skepticism Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors. ~ ISF disclaimer

24th January 2023, 10:59 AM	#26
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	Quote: The Day Will Come. As each day does...
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	__________________ Wild mingling with the howling gale, loud bursts of ghastly laughter rise high o’er the minstrels head they sail and die amid the northern skies ~ Scott There was I was where I ought - Examining my conscious thought ~ Navigator Atheism is not skepticism Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors. ~ ISF disclaimer

24th January 2023, 11:24 AM	#27
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 33,280	Originally Posted by crescent Isn't this just a repackaging of the Gaia Hypothesis? Originally Posted by Navigator The Gaia hypothesis is a scientific theory that proposes that the Earth's biosphere functions as a self-regulating system that maintains the conditions necessary for life on the planet. It suggests that living organisms, the atmosphere, oceans, and the Earth's crust are all interconnected and work together to create a stable environment. The concept of planetary intelligence is similar in that it proposes that there is some sort of intelligence or consciousness behind the workings of the planet, and that all life forms on the planet are interconnected and work together to maintain the conditions necessary for life. Both concepts propose that the Earth's biosphere functions as a self-regulating system, but planetary intelligence goes a step further by suggesting that there may be some sort of intelligence or consciousness behind this self-regulation. Yes FTFY Self-regulation isn't possible without analysis, which would meet the threshold for intelligence. Originally Posted by shemp No, it is a silly and stupid idea. The earth is no more sentient than a shoe, a rock, or a pizza. Posting large amounts of drivel is not going to get agreement from anyone. Hey, no fair! I have a pet rock which is smarter than 74,223,369 Americans.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

24th January 2023, 11:58 AM	#28
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 63,601	Originally Posted by Navigator The concept of "planetary intelligence," which describes the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet, The planet does not have knowledge or cognition, collective or otherwise. Quote: is an interesting and thought-provoking idea that could help us better understand and address global issues such as climate change, and may also aid in the search for extraterrestrial life. It's a terrible idea that can only confuse us about the physical mechanisms that govern climate processes, and lead to even worse policy decisions than the ones we normally make. Once you get a pseudo-scientific idea into politicians' heads, it takes decades or more to get it out again, and meanwhile they do immense damage with it. Quote: This idea gives us a new perspective on what to look for when searching for ET life, and may help us in identifying potentially habitable planets. I doubt it, but okay, make your case. Quote: Adopting this perspective could change the way we think about our relationship with the planet and the environment, On this point, I agree: Changing the way we think about something could very well change the way we think about it. Adopting a new perspective would very likely give us a new perspective. Quote: and may inspire new approaches to addressing the problems caused by human activities, which could lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits. "Health of the planet" is empty anthropomorphism. We are better off solving for value functions that are based on understanding of physical processes, and honest reflection about what we humans actually want for ourselves.
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

24th January 2023, 01:49 PM	#29
LarryS Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 1,346	if consciousness\sentience arises from a substrate, a conscious Earth has to be considered, especially since this process is largely not understood.
LarryS Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 1,346

24th January 2023, 01:51 PM	#30
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	Originally Posted by The Atheist FTFY ~~Self-regulation isn't possible without analysis, which would meet the threshold for intelligence.~~ Returned in full
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	__________________ Wild mingling with the howling gale, loud bursts of ghastly laughter rise high o’er the minstrels head they sail and die amid the northern skies ~ Scott There was I was where I ought - Examining my conscious thought ~ Navigator Atheism is not skepticism Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors. ~ ISF disclaimer

24th January 2023, 02:05 PM	#31
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	Quote: The planet does not have knowledge or cognition, collective or otherwise. You know this how? Quote: Quote: The concept of "planetary intelligence," which describes the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet, is an interesting and thought-provoking idea that could help us better understand and address global issues such as climate change, and may also aid in the search for extraterrestrial life. Quote: It's a terrible idea that can only confuse us about the physical mechanisms that govern climate processes, and lead to even worse policy decisions than the ones we normally make. Once you get a pseudo-scientific idea into politicians' heads, it takes decades or more to get it out again, and meanwhile they do immense damage with it. Conspiracy Theories aside, what else do you have? Quote: Quote: This idea gives us a new perspective on what to look for when searching for ET life, and may help us in identifying potentially habitable planets. Quote: I doubt it, but okay, make your case. It is a side-serving to the main subject. We can leave that to one side... Quote: Quote: Adopting this perspective could change the way we think about our relationship with the planet and the environment, Quote: On this point, I agree: Changing the way we think about something could very well change the way we think about it. Adopting a new perspective would very likely give us a new perspective. Precisely. Quote: Quote: and may inspire new approaches to addressing the problems caused by human activities, which could lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits. Quote: "Health of the planet" is empty anthropomorphism. We are better off solving for value functions that are based on understanding of physical processes, and honest reflection about what we humans actually want for ourselves. Why would you think that these two things are not related? If the planet is sentient and created humans for specific purposes, THEN having humans unwilling to see how they can improve their collective lot, and move away from scientifically creating things which are detrimental to the collective purpose, may very well be an aspect of the recipe for honest reflection about what we humans actually require for our collective selves. [Humanity] Sure, the planet will survive our destruction, but what of its efforts to create something worthwhile? Start again and try something new? Why go that way, when the opportunity for us humans to make our ride more enjoyable for everyone and give the Earth a helping hand, is an alternative?
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	__________________ Wild mingling with the howling gale, loud bursts of ghastly laughter rise high o’er the minstrels head they sail and die amid the northern skies ~ Scott There was I was where I ought - Examining my conscious thought ~ Navigator Atheism is not skepticism Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors. ~ ISF disclaimer

24th January 2023, 02:06 PM	#32
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	Originally Posted by LarryS if consciousness\sentience arises from a substrate, a conscious Earth has to be considered, especially since this process is largely not understood. We agree. The idea of "planetary intelligence" is an interesting and thought-provoking concept. While it may seem like something out of a science fiction movie, the researchers argue that considering the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet could help us better understand and address global issues such as climate change.
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	__________________ Wild mingling with the howling gale, loud bursts of ghastly laughter rise high o’er the minstrels head they sail and die amid the northern skies ~ Scott There was I was where I ought - Examining my conscious thought ~ Navigator Atheism is not skepticism Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors. ~ ISF disclaimer Last edited by Navigator; 24th January 2023 at 02:12 PM.

24th January 2023, 02:10 PM	#33
MarkCorrigan ¡No pasarán! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Слава Україні Posts: 11,475	Is there any evidence that the planet is sentient? No? Well then it almost certainly isn't. Without evidence this is pointless navel gazing. Ergo, it's pointless navel gazing. Please though, if you have some actual evidence rather than half baked ramblings put through an AI chatbot then please present it.
	__________________ Naturalism adjusts it's principles to fit with the observed data. It's a god of the facts world view. -joobz When I give food to the poor, they call me a Saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist. - Hélder Câmara

24th January 2023, 02:17 PM	#34
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	Quote: Is there any evidence that the planet is sentient? Verifying that the Earth is a container for a sentient being, or that it has a "mind of its own" as the thought experiment proposed, is a difficult and complex task. Currently, scientists have not been able to develop a method for directly measuring the level of sentience or consciousness of an entire planet. However, there are a few possible ways that scientists may be able to indirectly infer the presence of consciousness on a planet. One approach would be to look for signs of self-regulation or homeostasis on a planet. If a planet has developed a balance between its biosphere and its environment, it could be seen as a sign of intelligence or consciousness. Another approach would be to look for signs of communication, cooperation, or collective decision making among different life forms on a planet. If different species on a planet are able to communicate with each other, work together to achieve common goals or make decisions together, it would be an indication that the planet has a high level of intelligence or consciousness However, these methods are still speculative, and there is no scientific consensus on how to measure or detect consciousness on a planet. At this point, it isn't a topic of scientific speculation and research, but could be, and a bit of navel-gazing shouldn't be a problem, if it helps us all to help each other. Adopting the idea that there may be some sort of mind or intelligence behind the workings of the planet, as a speculative concept, could help to encourage a sense of interconnectedness and a greater awareness of our impact on the planet. It could also inspire new ways of thinking and problem-solving that could help us address global issues more effectively.
Navigator Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,808	__________________ Wild mingling with the howling gale, loud bursts of ghastly laughter rise high o’er the minstrels head they sail and die amid the northern skies ~ Scott There was I was where I ought - Examining my conscious thought ~ Navigator Atheism is not skepticism Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors. ~ ISF disclaimer Last edited by Navigator; 24th January 2023 at 02:20 PM.

24th January 2023, 02:30 PM	#35
MarkCorrigan ¡No pasarán! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Слава Україні Posts: 11,475	Or it could be a massively pointless waste of time. I reckon that's the one.
	__________________ Naturalism adjusts it's principles to fit with the observed data. It's a god of the facts world view. -joobz When I give food to the poor, they call me a Saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist. - Hélder Câmara

24th January 2023, 02:52 PM	#36
sackett Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 8,315	Willyum: Hey. Ya know what? sackett: No, Bill, I don't know what. W: There's this cool scientifically idee that I saw on my phone! They say our skulls are NOT REALLY NUMB! sackt: Bill, I'm sorta tired today -- W: Think on it! If yer solid bones kin feel, they kin fer sure think n talk n get on Congregational committees n -- sackt: Sorta headachy too. Puts me in a bad mood. Look -- W: N we kin tune in n turn on n then -- [Sound of door closing and latch clicking. Curtain. House lights out.]
	__________________ If you would learn a man's character, give him authority. If you would ruin a man's character, let him seize power. Last edited by sackett; 24th January 2023 at 02:54 PM.