Chinese Spy Balloon Over Montana - Page 2

lobosrul5 · 3rd February 2023, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

A Balloon is not a particularly efficent way of delievering either weapon. The Japanese seriously considered usint their balloons to deliver biological weapons....which they had used in China,,,byt found in tests the viruses ,with the methods of storage they had avialble, could not survive at the high attitudes.

Japan actually did send balloons over the USA to try and start massive forest fires... with very little success.

dudalb · 3rd February 2023, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

Japan actually did send balloons over the USA to try and start massive forest fires... with very little success.

Discussed earlier in this thread.
It would be sort of funny if six civilians had not been killed in Oregon when they investigated a crashed Fugu Balloon and accidently set off the bomb.
One of the problems with the weapon was it's detonation device was very unstable.

dudalb · 3rd February 2023, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by crescent

Busting That Chinese Spy Balloon Is Harder Than You Think (Updated)

Frank Luke could have done it..,,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luke

Luke became known as "The Balloon Buster" because of his skill in shotting down German Observation Balloons.

dudalb · 3rd February 2023, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by alfaniner

It's positioned over Kansas now. It's obviously Professor Marvel, aka The Wizard of OZ, attempting to return home. After all, there's no place like home.

"Well we could destory Kansas."
"But if we did, who would miss it?"

Blofeld and Henchman in "Diamonds Are Forever",

dudalb · 3rd February 2023, 03:16 PM

Pentagon denies it's a weather balloon.
I will take their word on this one.
I suspect it's one of those stupid ideas that Intelligence agencies get that somehow got greenlit. I supsect that the guy in China who thought this up is now cleaning toilets.

novaphile · 3rd February 2023, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Pentagon denies it's a weather balloon.
I will take their word on this one.
I suspect it's one of those stupid ideas that Intelligence agencies get that somehow got greenlit. I supsect that the guy in China who thought this up is now cleaning toilets.

With the rough side of his tongue.

Checkmite · 3rd February 2023, 03:39 PM

I think the reason the military isn't doing anything about this problem is that it isn't really a problem. It's a balloon. It's a threat to no one and nothing, and it's not as if its flight path is taking it over any sensitive locations.

Militarily engaging this thing is not worth the time, cost, or risks, not to mention that doing so creates a precedent that other countries can use against American assets. If we can shoot down their spy balloon, then they can decide to take an active measure against our spy satellite, and unlike a balloon those things are damn expensive.

crescent · 3rd February 2023, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

I think the reason the military isn't doing anything about this problem is that it isn't really a problem. It's a balloon. It's a threat to no one and nothing, and it's not as if its flight path is taking it over any sensitive locations.

Militarily engaging this thing is not worth the time, cost, or risks, not to mention that doing so creates a precedent that other countries can use against American assets. If we can shoot down their spy balloon, then they can decide to take an active measure against our spy satellite, and unlike a balloon those things are damn expensive.

And we can't rule it that the military might be jamming its signals.

My newest pet theory for which I have absolutely no evidence is that it is a surveillance satellite, but not one that was intended to go over the whole U.S. Maybe they were playing around with using one to track shipping in the northern Pacific, intending for it to self destruct and fall before it got too close to the U.S. Then it failed to do so.

I suppose it could be out of communications range, if it has travelled much further than intended. Depending of course on how it communicates.

Ryan O'Dine · 3rd February 2023, 04:14 PM

They finally got a close up...

theprestige · 3rd February 2023, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by crescent

And we can't rule it that the military might be jamming its signals.

My newest pet theory for which I have absolutely no evidence is that it is a surveillance satellite, but not one that was intended to go over the whole U.S. Maybe they were playing around with using one to track shipping in the northern Pacific, intending for it to self destruct and fall before it got too close to the U.S. Then it failed to do so.

I suppose it could be out of communications range, if it has travelled much further than intended. Depending of course on how it communicates.

Probably uses commercial off the shelf radio gear, made in China, and already well-known to the west. Much to the annoyance of the ELINT crews tasked with listening to the thing.

Checkmite · 3rd February 2023, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Pentagon denies it's a weather balloon.
I will take their word on this one.
I suspect it's one of those stupid ideas that Intelligence agencies get that somehow got greenlit. I supsect that the guy in China who thought this up is now cleaning toilets.

I'm not so sure. I'm not sure it's reasonable to assume the Chinese didn't expect this balloon to be detected.

Ryan O'Dine · 3rd February 2023, 04:44 PM

Apparently the surveillance equipment is as big as 3 school buses, there are solar panels and a rudder. Not an insignificant payload.

Doubt · 3rd February 2023, 04:52 PM

Jamming would likely not be easy. First, you likely cannot stop it from transmitting with a jammer. Jamming works on the receiving end. To make it work, you need to overpower the signal from the transmitter. Signal strength follows the root mean square law.

So where is the receiver you need to jam? If it is bouncing signals all the way back to China, you need to worry about the route, which is likely always changing with atmospheric conditions. For the transmitter to be reliable in the first place, this is likely not being done.

If the receiver is a satellite, then a ground based jammer starts with two problems. One is that the balloon is several miles up. Decay in the jamming signal has to be accounted for. And since the balloon is moving the ground based jammer has to move to or transfer duty to another location. If a plane is used to jam the signal it will still have power issues unless it flies higher than the balloon. Not easy to pull off and the jamming plane would be easy to find by the same people that track satellites. A satellite jammer might work if the receiving Chinese satellite location is known. But that means giving away the jammer location that might be more of more use to China than whatever the balloon is seeing.

Then there is the radio technology of the balloon. China can do frequency hopping. We can be sure of that since they did a lot of the work to develop 5G cell technology which does do frequency hopping. Trying to jam all the frequencies they might be using requires more power. And they can change the frequencies used in the hop set and make jamming that much harder. And even if all that works, the transmitter on the balloon might be holding the information to transmit whenever the jammers stop for a short while.

And lastly, we don't know what the balloon mission really is. That thing might not even have a camera on it and be used for signal intel. In that case, the US jamming it is just more intel for China.

If this thing is being jammed, there would likely be reports coming in from the same people that track satellite signals for a hobby.

Mike! · 3rd February 2023, 04:53 PM

The thing passed over St. Louis a couple hours ago. Went outside and looked, but didn't see it.

kookbreaker · 3rd February 2023, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Frank Luke could have done it..,,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luke

Luke became known as "The Balloon Buster" because of his skill in shotting down German Observation Balloons.

Nooo Steve Savage!

Dr.Sid · 3rd February 2023, 05:57 PM

Srsly how did US air defense miss it ?

TellyKNeasuss · 3rd February 2023, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Blinken has cancelled his trip to China over this.
The situation has, excuse the pun, ballooned up bigly.

I don't think that Blinken should inflate the seriousness of the situation.

theprestige · 3rd February 2023, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Srsly how did US air defense miss it ?

Who says they missed it?

Dr.Sid · 3rd February 2023, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Who says they missed it?

It's over St.Louis ?

TragicMonkey · 3rd February 2023, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by crescent

Lots of CT's about the balloon:

The balloon is carrying Hunter Biden's laptop, and the gas inside the balloon is an experimental chemical weapon that when released will rain down and transform anyone in range into a drag queen!

TragicMonkey · 3rd February 2023, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

It's over St.Louis ?

Oh, in that case the chances are pretty good it'll be brought down by random gunfire.

alfaniner · 3rd February 2023, 06:35 PM

I changed my mind. It looks much more like Glinda the Good Witch's bubble. No wonder the military is hesitant to shoot it down. That, or it might be carrying anthrax. (The bacteria, not the band.)

theprestige · 3rd February 2023, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

It's over St.Louis ?

I'm not following your logic. Spy satellites pass over the US all the time and nobody loses their minds.

On the other hand, it's generally agreed that spy planes are best kept out of one's airspace, if one can manage it.

So.

Is the US supposed to be treating this kind of high-altitude balloon more like a spy plane, and therefore they must have missed it?

Or is the US supposed to be treating it more like a spy satellite, and therefore they may not have missed it, but rather are content to let it do its thing before moving on?

Apathia · 3rd February 2023, 06:43 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8qjxT1iIAM&t=2s

Yep. I know I'm supposed to tell what the youtube link is to. I'll just lie and say, It is potato.

slyjoe · 3rd February 2023, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

...snip

Thought balloon busting, of course, brings back memories of Frank Luke, the balloon buster of World War 1 he was a US pilot who became famous for his skill at shooting down German Obersrvation Balloons. He was KIA, and there is a statue of him in Phoenix, since he was from Arizona.

I don't know about the statue, but there is a whole damn Air Force base outside of Phoenix named for him

Gord_in_Toronto · 3rd February 2023, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Pentagon denies it's a weather balloon.
I will take their word on this one.
I suspect it's one of those stupid ideas that Intelligence agencies get that somehow got greenlit. I supsect that the guy in China who thought this up is now cleaning toilets.

How would they know unless they have actually analyzed it? It may, I suppose, be an experimental atmospheric research balloon . . . disguised as a standard weather balloon. But as any sort of spy it is almost completely worthless.

To misquote Scrooge. “Are there no spy satellites?”

TragicMonkey · 3rd February 2023, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

How would they know unless they have actually analyzed it? It may, I suppose, be an experimental atmospheric research balloon . . . disguised as a standard weather balloon. But as any sort of spy it is almost completely worthless.

To misquote Scrooge. “Are there no spy satellites?”

Didn't the English execute as a spy a monkey that washed up from a shipwreck during the Napoleonic Wars? How many lives they saved are, well, uncountable!

Apathia · 3rd February 2023, 07:07 PM

It's the Balloon Boy again!

alfaniner · 3rd February 2023, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Apathia

It's the Balloon Boy again!

That poor guy is never gonna live that down. He must be about 20 by now. Of course, is dad may still be exploiting him even at that age, or he could be milking it himself.

Gord_in_Toronto · 3rd February 2023, 07:47 PM

Nice picture here:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/china-...loon-1.6735770

But it's really hard to know the exact shape. I don't see any dangly bits.

GraculusTheGreenBird · 3rd February 2023, 07:59 PM

Chinese official response has been typical.

1. Its absolutely nothing to do with us. Its anti-China US propaganda to say its Chinese.

2. Where is the evidence its from China? Its anti-China US propaganda to say its Chinese.

3. It might be Chinese. But it was still anti-China US propaganda to assume it was Chinese.

4. Ok, it is actually Chinese, but its a civilian balloon. Its anti-China US propaganda to say otherwise.

5. Its not a spy balloon. Its anti-China US propaganda to say anything else.

6. Why dont you believe us? Its anti-China US propaganda not to believe us.

rjh01 · 3rd February 2023, 08:07 PM

The balloon will probably slowly decend as the gas leaks out of the balloon. Then land and the USA could recover the payload and see what it contains. Though by that stage it may be in the Alantic Ocean.

theprestige · 3rd February 2023, 08:08 PM

Hopefully the US Navy will think to put a ship out there or something.

Nosi · 3rd February 2023, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Blinken has cancelled his trip to China over this.
The situation has, excuse the pun, ballooned up bigly.

GraculusTheGreenBird · 3rd February 2023, 08:19 PM

Over 80% of Chinese airspace is controlled by the Chinese military, many parts of it are completely forbidden to civilian air traffic. No fly zones, no exceptions.

Hence the Chinese military are absolutely guaranteed to be aware of its flight path through restricted military airspace. So it cannot have been civilian in the first place. They knew exactly where it was going. Through China, over Japan, over Canada and then into the US.

And yet they didn't mention it to the US.

"Oh sorry, please be aware our civilian weather research balloon has inadvertently drifted off course, and is now entering your airspace. Its going over Montana, which we can appreciate is sensitive, what with all the missile silos. How can we work with you to resolve this, and avoid a diplomatic incident?"

But instead they flat out denied it was even Chinese.
Its not a conclusive argument, but its not a good look for China.

Dr.Sid · 3rd February 2023, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

I'm not following your logic. Spy satellites pass over the US all the time and nobody loses their minds.

On the other hand, it's generally agreed that spy planes are best kept out of one's airspace, if one can manage it.

So.

Is the US supposed to be treating this kind of high-altitude balloon more like a spy plane, and therefore they must have missed it?

Or is the US supposed to be treating it more like a spy satellite, and therefore they may not have missed it, but rather are content to let it do its thing before moving on?

It's certainly not a satellite. Satellite can't fall down. This for sure will. Satellites fly above national airspace, balloons do not. Definitions vary between nations, but the idea about the limits is mostly the same .. satellites fly above, balloons don't.
It's clearly violation of US territory.

alfaniner · 3rd February 2023, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

Nice picture here:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/china-...loon-1.6735770

But it's really hard to know the exact shape. I don't see any dangly bits.

That's the picture that looks really odd to me, as if someone had gone over some parts of it with Microsoft Paint. Those hard, dark edges look out of place.

GraculusTheGreenBird · 3rd February 2023, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by alfaniner

That's the picture that looks really odd to me, as if someone had gone over some parts of it with Microsoft Paint. Those hard, dark edges look out of place.

That's most likely contrast and compression artifacts due to the huge zoom.

The dangly bits are at the bottom, the 8-12 rectangles. Its a 3/4 view from below.

Dr.Sid · 3rd February 2023, 09:14 PM

Nice picture is near the middle of the page here:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nat...aths-rcna69052

sarge · 3rd February 2023, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Thing it is still violating US Airspace even if true.

No, it isn’t. Or at least it wasn’t. Our airspace has a vertical limit that this ballon was above.

It obviously isn’t a ‘spy ballon’. It obviously isn’t a threat. It seemingly arrived here accidentally. It is more dangerous shot down than floating about. What should be done about it?

3rd February 2023, 02:42 PM	#41
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,423	Originally Posted by dudalb A Balloon is not a particularly efficent way of delievering either weapon. The Japanese seriously considered usint their balloons to deliver biological weapons....which they had used in China,,,byt found in tests the viruses ,with the methods of storage they had avialble, could not survive at the high attitudes. Japan actually did send balloons over the USA to try and start massive forest fires... with very little success.
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,423

3rd February 2023, 03:11 PM	#42
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 57,860	Originally Posted by lobosrul5 Japan actually did send balloons over the USA to try and start massive forest fires... with very little success. Discussed earlier in this thread. It would be sort of funny if six civilians had not been killed in Oregon when they investigated a crashed Fugu Balloon and accidently set off the bomb. One of the problems with the weapon was it's detonation device was very unstable.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

3rd February 2023, 03:13 PM	#43
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 57,860	Originally Posted by crescent Busting That Chinese Spy Balloon Is Harder Than You Think (Updated) Frank Luke could have done it..,, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luke Luke became known as "The Balloon Buster" because of his skill in shotting down German Observation Balloons.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. Last edited by dudalb; 3rd February 2023 at 03:21 PM.

3rd February 2023, 03:14 PM	#44
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 57,860	Originally Posted by alfaniner It's positioned over Kansas now. It's obviously Professor Marvel, aka The Wizard of OZ, attempting to return home. After all, there's no place like home. "Well we could destory Kansas." "But if we did, who would miss it?" Blofeld and Henchman in "Diamonds Are Forever",
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

3rd February 2023, 03:16 PM	#45
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 57,860	Pentagon denies it's a weather balloon. I will take their word on this one. I suspect it's one of those stupid ideas that Intelligence agencies get that somehow got greenlit. I supsect that the guy in China who thought this up is now cleaning toilets.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

3rd February 2023, 03:38 PM	#46
novaphile Quester of Doglets Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sunny South Australia Posts: 4,452	Originally Posted by dudalb Pentagon denies it's a weather balloon. I will take their word on this one. I suspect it's one of those stupid ideas that Intelligence agencies get that somehow got greenlit. I supsect that the guy in China who thought this up is now cleaning toilets. With the rough side of his tongue.
	__________________ We would be better, and braver, to engage in enquiry, rather than indulge in the idle fancy, that we already know -- Plato.

3rd February 2023, 03:39 PM	#47
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 28,103	I think the reason the military isn't doing anything about this problem is that it isn't really a problem. It's a balloon. It's a threat to no one and nothing, and it's not as if its flight path is taking it over any sensitive locations. Militarily engaging this thing is not worth the time, cost, or risks, not to mention that doing so creates a precedent that other countries can use against American assets. If we can shoot down their spy balloon, then they can decide to take an active measure against our spy satellite, and unlike a balloon those things are damn expensive.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

3rd February 2023, 03:47 PM	#48
crescent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,323	Originally Posted by Checkmite I think the reason the military isn't doing anything about this problem is that it isn't really a problem. It's a balloon. It's a threat to no one and nothing, and it's not as if its flight path is taking it over any sensitive locations. Militarily engaging this thing is not worth the time, cost, or risks, not to mention that doing so creates a precedent that other countries can use against American assets. If we can shoot down their spy balloon, then they can decide to take an active measure against our spy satellite, and unlike a balloon those things are damn expensive. And we can't rule it that the military might be jamming its signals. My newest pet theory for which I have absolutely no evidence is that it is a surveillance satellite, but not one that was intended to go over the whole U.S. Maybe they were playing around with using one to track shipping in the northern Pacific, intending for it to self destruct and fall before it got too close to the U.S. Then it failed to do so. I suppose it could be out of communications range, if it has travelled much further than intended. Depending of course on how it communicates.

3rd February 2023, 04:14 PM	#49
Ryan O'Dine OD’ing on Damitol Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Walk in an ever expanding Archimedean spiral and you'll find me eventually Posts: 2,105	They finally got a close up...
	__________________ I collect people like you in little formaldehyde bottles in my basement. (Not a threat. A hobby.)

3rd February 2023, 04:18 PM	#50
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 63,607	Originally Posted by crescent And we can't rule it that the military might be jamming its signals. My newest pet theory for which I have absolutely no evidence is that it is a surveillance satellite, but not one that was intended to go over the whole U.S. Maybe they were playing around with using one to track shipping in the northern Pacific, intending for it to self destruct and fall before it got too close to the U.S. Then it failed to do so. I suppose it could be out of communications range, if it has travelled much further than intended. Depending of course on how it communicates. Probably uses commercial off the shelf radio gear, made in China, and already well-known to the west. Much to the annoyance of the ELINT crews tasked with listening to the thing.
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

3rd February 2023, 04:28 PM	#51
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 28,103	Originally Posted by dudalb Pentagon denies it's a weather balloon. I will take their word on this one. I suspect it's one of those stupid ideas that Intelligence agencies get that somehow got greenlit. I supsect that the guy in China who thought this up is now cleaning toilets. I'm not so sure. I'm not sure it's reasonable to assume the Chinese didn't expect this balloon to be detected.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

3rd February 2023, 04:44 PM	#52
Ryan O'Dine OD’ing on Damitol Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Walk in an ever expanding Archimedean spiral and you'll find me eventually Posts: 2,105	Apparently the surveillance equipment is as big as 3 school buses, there are solar panels and a rudder. Not an insignificant payload.
	__________________ I collect people like you in little formaldehyde bottles in my basement. (Not a threat. A hobby.)

3rd February 2023, 04:52 PM	#53
Doubt Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 7,792	Jamming would likely not be easy. First, you likely cannot stop it from transmitting with a jammer. Jamming works on the receiving end. To make it work, you need to overpower the signal from the transmitter. Signal strength follows the root mean square law. So where is the receiver you need to jam? If it is bouncing signals all the way back to China, you need to worry about the route, which is likely always changing with atmospheric conditions. For the transmitter to be reliable in the first place, this is likely not being done. If the receiver is a satellite, then a ground based jammer starts with two problems. One is that the balloon is several miles up. Decay in the jamming signal has to be accounted for. And since the balloon is moving the ground based jammer has to move to or transfer duty to another location. If a plane is used to jam the signal it will still have power issues unless it flies higher than the balloon. Not easy to pull off and the jamming plane would be easy to find by the same people that track satellites. A satellite jammer might work if the receiving Chinese satellite location is known. But that means giving away the jammer location that might be more of more use to China than whatever the balloon is seeing. Then there is the radio technology of the balloon. China can do frequency hopping. We can be sure of that since they did a lot of the work to develop 5G cell technology which does do frequency hopping. Trying to jam all the frequencies they might be using requires more power. And they can change the frequencies used in the hop set and make jamming that much harder. And even if all that works, the transmitter on the balloon might be holding the information to transmit whenever the jammers stop for a short while. And lastly, we don't know what the balloon mission really is. That thing might not even have a camera on it and be used for signal intel. In that case, the US jamming it is just more intel for China. If this thing is being jammed, there would likely be reports coming in from the same people that track satellite signals for a hobby.
Doubt Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 7,792	__________________ 45 es un titere

3rd February 2023, 04:53 PM	#54
Mike! Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not! Posts: 49,454	The thing passed over St. Louis a couple hours ago. Went outside and looked, but didn't see it.
	__________________ "Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes... Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."

3rd February 2023, 05:05 PM	#55
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 14,388	Originally Posted by dudalb Frank Luke could have done it..,, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luke Luke became known as "The Balloon Buster" because of his skill in shotting down German Observation Balloons. Nooo Steve Savage!
	__________________ www.spectrum-scientifics.com <-

3rd February 2023, 05:57 PM	#56
Dr.Sid Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic Posts: 4,041	Srsly how did US air defense miss it ?

3rd February 2023, 06:08 PM	#57
TellyKNeasuss Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,967	Originally Posted by dudalb Blinken has cancelled his trip to China over this. The situation has, excuse the pun, ballooned up bigly. I don't think that Blinken should inflate the seriousness of the situation.
	__________________ "Facts are stupid things." Ronald Reagan

3rd February 2023, 06:12 PM	#58
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 63,607	Originally Posted by Dr.Sid Srsly how did US air defense miss it ? Who says they missed it?
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

3rd February 2023, 06:24 PM	#59
Dr.Sid Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic Posts: 4,041	Originally Posted by theprestige Who says they missed it? It's over St.Louis ?

3rd February 2023, 06:27 PM	#60
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 65,365	Originally Posted by crescent Lots of CT's about the balloon: The balloon is carrying Hunter Biden's laptop, and the gas inside the balloon is an experimental chemical weapon that when released will rain down and transform anyone in range into a drag queen!
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

3rd February 2023, 06:29 PM	#61
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 65,365	Originally Posted by Dr.Sid It's over St.Louis ? Oh, in that case the chances are pretty good it'll be brought down by random gunfire.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

3rd February 2023, 06:35 PM	#62
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sorth Dakonsin Posts: 27,607	I changed my mind. It looks much more like Glinda the Good Witch's bubble. No wonder the military is hesitant to shoot it down. That, or it might be carrying anthrax. (The bacteria, not the band.)
	__________________ Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting.

3rd February 2023, 06:37 PM	#63
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 63,607	Originally Posted by Dr.Sid It's over St.Louis ? I'm not following your logic. Spy satellites pass over the US all the time and nobody loses their minds. On the other hand, it's generally agreed that spy planes are best kept out of one's airspace, if one can manage it. So. Is the US supposed to be treating this kind of high-altitude balloon more like a spy plane, and therefore they must have missed it? Or is the US supposed to be treating it more like a spy satellite, and therefore they may not have missed it, but rather are content to let it do its thing before moving on?
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

3rd February 2023, 06:43 PM	#64
Apathia Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,617	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8qjxT1iIAM&t=2s Yep. I know I'm supposed to tell what the youtube link is to. I'll just lie and say, It is potato.
	__________________ "At the Supreme Court level where we work, 90 percent of any decision is emotional. The rational part of us supplies the reasons for supporting our predilections." Justice William O. Douglas "Humans aren't rational creatures but rationalizing creatures." Author Unknown Last edited by Apathia; 3rd February 2023 at 06:46 PM.

3rd February 2023, 06:46 PM	#65
slyjoe Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ Posts: 3,447	Originally Posted by dudalb ...snip Thought balloon busting, of course, brings back memories of Frank Luke, the balloon buster of World War 1 he was a US pilot who became famous for his skill at shooting down German Obersrvation Balloons. He was KIA, and there is a statue of him in Phoenix, since he was from Arizona. I don't know about the statue, but there is a whole damn Air Force base outside of Phoenix named for him
	__________________ "You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade

3rd February 2023, 06:59 PM	#66
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 23,530	Originally Posted by dudalb Pentagon denies it's a weather balloon. I will take their word on this one. I suspect it's one of those stupid ideas that Intelligence agencies get that somehow got greenlit. I supsect that the guy in China who thought this up is now cleaning toilets. How would they know unless they have actually analyzed it? It may, I suppose, be an experimental atmospheric research balloon . . . disguised as a standard weather balloon. But as any sort of spy it is almost completely worthless. To misquote Scrooge. “Are there no spy satellites?”
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

3rd February 2023, 07:07 PM	#67
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 65,365	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto How would they know unless they have actually analyzed it? It may, I suppose, be an experimental atmospheric research balloon . . . disguised as a standard weather balloon. But as any sort of spy it is almost completely worthless. To misquote Scrooge. “Are there no spy satellites?” Didn't the English execute as a spy a monkey that washed up from a shipwreck during the Napoleonic Wars? How many lives they saved are, well, uncountable!
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3rd February 2023, 07:25 PM	#69
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sorth Dakonsin Posts: 27,607	Originally Posted by Apathia It's the Balloon Boy again! That poor guy is never gonna live that down. He must be about 20 by now. Of course, is dad may still be exploiting him even at that age, or he could be milking it himself.
	__________________ Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting.

3rd February 2023, 07:47 PM	#70
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 23,530	Nice picture here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/china-...loon-1.6735770 But it's really hard to know the exact shape. I don't see any dangly bits.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

3rd February 2023, 07:59 PM	#71
GraculusTheGreenBird Muse Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 567	Chinese official response has been typical. 1. Its absolutely nothing to do with us. Its anti-China US propaganda to say its Chinese. 2. Where is the evidence its from China? Its anti-China US propaganda to say its Chinese. 3. It might be Chinese. But it was still anti-China US propaganda to assume it was Chinese. 4. Ok, it is actually Chinese, but its a civilian balloon. Its anti-China US propaganda to say otherwise. 5. Its not a spy balloon. Its anti-China US propaganda to say anything else. 6. Why dont you believe us? Its anti-China US propaganda not to believe us.
	Last edited by GraculusTheGreenBird; 3rd February 2023 at 08:00 PM.

3rd February 2023, 08:07 PM	#72
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 27,648	The balloon will probably slowly decend as the gas leaks out of the balloon. Then land and the USA could recover the payload and see what it contains. Though by that stage it may be in the Alantic Ocean.
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3rd February 2023, 08:08 PM	#73
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 63,607	Hopefully the US Navy will think to put a ship out there or something.
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

3rd February 2023, 08:09 PM	#74
Nosi Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,020	Originally Posted by dudalb Blinken has cancelled his trip to China over this. The situation has, excuse the pun, ballooned up bigly.
Nosi Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,020	__________________ __________ Hiding from the

3rd February 2023, 08:19 PM	#75
GraculusTheGreenBird Muse Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 567	Over 80% of Chinese airspace is controlled by the Chinese military, many parts of it are completely forbidden to civilian air traffic. No fly zones, no exceptions. Hence the Chinese military are absolutely guaranteed to be aware of its flight path through restricted military airspace. So it cannot have been civilian in the first place. They knew exactly where it was going. Through China, over Japan, over Canada and then into the US. And yet they didn't mention it to the US. "Oh sorry, please be aware our civilian weather research balloon has inadvertently drifted off course, and is now entering your airspace. Its going over Montana, which we can appreciate is sensitive, what with all the missile silos. How can we work with you to resolve this, and avoid a diplomatic incident?" But instead they flat out denied it was even Chinese. Its not a conclusive argument, but its not a good look for China.

3rd February 2023, 08:59 PM	#76
Dr.Sid Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic Posts: 4,041	Originally Posted by theprestige I'm not following your logic. Spy satellites pass over the US all the time and nobody loses their minds. On the other hand, it's generally agreed that spy planes are best kept out of one's airspace, if one can manage it. So. Is the US supposed to be treating this kind of high-altitude balloon more like a spy plane, and therefore they must have missed it? Or is the US supposed to be treating it more like a spy satellite, and therefore they may not have missed it, but rather are content to let it do its thing before moving on? It's certainly not a satellite. Satellite can't fall down. This for sure will. Satellites fly above national airspace, balloons do not. Definitions vary between nations, but the idea about the limits is mostly the same .. satellites fly above, balloons don't. It's clearly violation of US territory.