IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags donald trump , lying charges , Russia conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

Closed Thread
Old 14th December 2017, 05:02 PM   #3401
Stacko
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
This, of course, is why we have procedures, which seriously limit the effect of individual bias.
It's also why we expect people to have professionalism. It's insane to expect people to not have opinions but we do expect them to set aside their opinions in order to do their job properly.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 14th December 2017, 05:07 PM   #3402
CapelDodger
Penultimate Amazing
 
CapelDodger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 25,102
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
No one seems to be considering that Strzok might just hate Trump partially because of the evidence he was seeing about Trump in the investigation.
From what I've seen Strzok's opinions of Trump were pretty mainstream - essentially, that he is a vile and odious person, which is obvious without any inside information. In fact, Trump goes to some effort to display the fact to as wide an audience as he can reach.
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898)

God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150
CapelDodger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 14th December 2017, 05:28 PM   #3403
CapelDodger
Penultimate Amazing
 
CapelDodger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 25,102
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
It's also why we expect people to have professionalism. It's insane to expect people to not have opinions but we do expect them to set aside their opinions in order to do their job properly.
Quite.

People like logger assume that bias determines conclusions because that's how it works for them. Start with the bias, form the conclusion according to it, then fill the space between with selected or invented "data" and motivated inference. With some gibes aimed at Hillary Clinton shoehorned in, of course.

Mueller's case, when it's presented, will not look like that at all. His professionalism is beyond reasonable question.
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898)

God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150
CapelDodger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 14th December 2017, 05:36 PM   #3404
CapelDodger
Penultimate Amazing
 
CapelDodger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 25,102
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Thanks, I am aware of that story, didn't know some of those details though.
Even with that pro-Trump, anti-Clinton bias no crime was found, so the procedures clearly work.
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898)

God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150
CapelDodger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 14th December 2017, 05:45 PM   #3405
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 27,710
Still waiting. I haven't heard of a judge telling Mueller he hasn't met his burden to bring charges.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 14th December 2017, 06:48 PM   #3406
CapelDodger
Penultimate Amazing
 
CapelDodger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 25,102
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Still waiting. I haven't heard of a judge telling Mueller he hasn't met his burden to bring charges.
Flynn and his lawyers clearly believe that he has, and they're in a good position to know.
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898)

God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150
CapelDodger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 14th December 2017, 08:12 PM   #3407
logger
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
It's also why we expect people to have professionalism. It's insane to expect people to not have opinions but we do expect them to set aside their opinions in order to do their job properly.
Lol
Libs can never be trusted to do this. Their ideology is a higher calling. The actions of leftist are all over the news.

Last edited by logger; 14th December 2017 at 08:29 PM.
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 14th December 2017, 08:29 PM   #3408
logger
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
Here’s another great article that covers many aspect of this scandal.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/14/fb...e-james-comey/
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 14th December 2017, 08:43 PM   #3409
BobTheCoward
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 22,789
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Here’s another great article that covers many aspect of this scandal.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/14/fb...e-james-comey/
Lot of innuendo. No evidence that guy's opinion of Trump affected his decision making.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 14th December 2017, 08:45 PM   #3410
logger
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Lot of innuendo. No evidence that guy's opinion of Trump affected his decision making.
On a skeptics forum lol!!!
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 14th December 2017, 08:49 PM   #3411
BobTheCoward
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 22,789
Originally Posted by logger View Post
On a skeptics forum lol!!!
Which is why you need evidence, and not mere suggestion. You have evidence he didn't like Trump (most people don't). Where is the evidence that he took action because of it?
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 14th December 2017, 09:15 PM   #3412
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of)
Posts: 27,292
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
It's also why we expect people to have professionalism. It's insane to expect people to not have opinions but we do expect them to set aside their opinions in order to do their job properly.

"We" might expect that.

Conservatives obviously don't. Their opinions take precedence over everything else. Duty. Responsibility. Facts.

Everything.

Anything that doesn't conform to their opinions they ignore or reject.

They can't conceive of anyone responding any other way, so of course everyone else allows their bias to influence the way they perform their jobs.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 14th December 2017, 11:57 PM   #3413
WilliamSeger
Philosopher
 
WilliamSeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,092
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Here’s another great article that covers many aspect of this scandal.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/14/fb...e-james-comey/
Lol

Many aspects of this "scandal" are pretty funny. Republicans are outraged that Strzok called Trump a "*********** idiot" while Democrats want to know why the FBI didn't warn us sooner.
WilliamSeger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 02:29 AM   #3414
Worm
Illuminator
 
Worm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dundee
Posts: 3,580
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol
Libs can never be trusted to do this. Their ideology is a higher calling. The actions of leftist are all over the news.
As happens occasionally, you use a broad brush and manage to hit the wrong people.

There are millions of people in government service. All over the world. Ultimately they serve the public, but do it through political masters.

Millions of them will be 'leftist' by your personal standard. Myself included.

I have my political opinions, but I absolutely do not let them affect my professional conduct. It depends on individual roles of course, some are more directly political than others, but I deal with data, information, facts, and I do so in an objective and unbiased way.

Of course I would say that, but I guess I'm just trying to say, don't judge a huge population by what you decide must be true from news reports about a few individuals. Political bias is not a day-to-day part of government service. It simply isn't.
__________________
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" Isaac Asimov

Not all cults are bad - I've joined a cult of niceness
Worm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 02:42 AM   #3415
Childlike Empress
Banned
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,632
Uh-oh, now the Wall Street Journal Editorial Board jumps ship: The FBI’s Trump ‘Insurance’

Behind a paywall, but at least partly freed here:

Originally Posted by WSJ
[...] Public confidence isn’t helped by the continuing Justice and FBI refusal to cooperate with Congress. Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who supervises Mr. Mueller, toed the Mueller-FBI line on Wednesday before the House Oversight Committee. He repeated FBI Director Christopher Wray’s preposterous excuse that he can’t answer questions because of an Inspector General probe. And he wouldn’t elaborate on the news that Nellie Ohr, the wife of senior Justice official Bruce Ohr, worked for Fusion GPS, which hired Mr. Steele to gin up his dossier.

The man who should be most disturbed by all this is Mr. Mueller, who wants his evidence and conclusions to be credible with the public. Evidence is building instead that some officials at the FBI—who have worked for him—may have interfered in an American presidential election. Congress needs to insist on its rights as a co-equal branch of government to discover the truth.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 02:57 AM   #3416
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Can anyone explain that one further? Blackmail the FBI? Who at the FBI? The whole agency?
The most comprehensive coverage of this angle comes again from Abramson: Thread 1, Thread 2
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 03:27 AM   #3417
WilliamSeger
Philosopher
 
WilliamSeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,092
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Uh-oh, now the Wall Street Journal Editorial Board jumps ship: The FBI’s Trump ‘Insurance’

Behind a paywall, but at least partly freed here:
Lol

No, the Wall Street Journal Editorial Board has not "jumped ship"; they've always been aboard SS Trump. Last month, they were pushing the same line as Fox News that Mueller's investigation can't be trusted because "the Hillary Clinton campaign and Democratic National Committee jointly paid for that infamous 'dossier' full of Russian disinformation against Donald Trump." They also never miss an opportunity to insinuate that the FBI faked the evidence that Russia hacked the emails.

Last edited by WilliamSeger; 15th December 2017 at 03:38 AM.
WilliamSeger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 04:34 AM   #3418
Stacko
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
"We" might expect that.

Conservatives obviously don't. Their opinions take precedence over everything else. Duty. Responsibility. Facts.

Everything.

Anything that doesn't conform to their opinions they ignore or reject.

They can't conceive of anyone responding any other way, so of course everyone else allows their bias to influence the way they perform their jobs.
And here they are conceding a massive lapse in professionalism over their attempts to shape the story.

Quote:
The Justice Department acknowledged in a statement on Thursday night that copies of private text messages exchanged between two former special counsel investigators were disclosed to certain members of the media before they were given to Congress, even though those disclosures "were not authorized."

DOJ spokeswoman Sarah Isgur Flores told Politico that the text messages exchanged between Peter Strzok and Lisa Page were given to key members of the House Judiciary Committee the night before Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein's public testimony on Wednesday.

The DOJ's Public Affairs division shared the same messages with a group of reporters after they were shared with the lawmakers, Flores said. But some members of the media "had already received copies."

“As we understand now, some members of the media had already received copies of the texts before that — but those disclosures were not authorized by the department,” she said.

Business Insider first reported the Justice Department's unusual invitation to a small group of reporters to travel to the DOJ on Tuesday night and view the private text messages Strzok and Page exchanged between 2015 and 2016.
It's like they cherry picked what and who they released early to in order to manufacture a scandal.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 05:37 AM   #3419
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
Moderator
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 31,644
worth pointing out how at least one person has a particularly partisan approach to impartiality

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...=recirc_recent
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare
https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt

Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 06:32 AM   #3420
Cl1mh4224rd
Philosopher
 
Cl1mh4224rd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,778
Doubting the intelligence, Trump pursues Putin and leaves a Russian threat unchecked
Director of National Intelligence James R. Clapper Jr., CIA Director John Brennan and National Security Agency chief Michael S. Rogers flew together aboard an Air Force 737. FBI Director James B. Comey traveled separately on an FBI Gulfstream aircraft, planning to extend his stay for meetings with bureau officials.

The mood was heavy. The four men had convened a virtual meeting the previous evening, speaking by secure videoconference to plan their presentation to the incoming president of a classified report on Russia’s election interference and its pro-Trump objective.

...

Following a rehearsed plan, Clapper functioned as moderator, yielding to Brennan and others on key points in the briefing, which covered the most highly classified information U.S. spy agencies had assembled, including an extraordinary CIA stream of intelligence that had captured Putin’s specific instructions on the operation.
Cl1mh4224rd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 07:38 AM   #3421
BobTheCoward
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 22,789
Lot of republicans saying things are biased and that is a problem. It would be real nice for them to define what bias is and why it is a problem.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 07:59 AM   #3422
WilliamSeger
Philosopher
 
WilliamSeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,092
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Lot of republicans saying things are biased and that is a problem. It would be real nice for them to define what bias is and why it is a problem.
Would a definition really matter? However they define the term, what they mean to imply is that people in the FBI are so upset that Hillary lost that they are fabricating a bogus case against innocent people in order to remove Trump from office.
WilliamSeger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 08:07 AM   #3423
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
worth pointing out how at least one person has a particularly partisan approach to impartiality

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...=recirc_recent
Why has that woman got a photograph pinned to her jacket?
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 09:14 AM   #3424
WilliamSeger
Philosopher
 
WilliamSeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,092
Trump: “It’s a shame what happened to the FBI. But we’re going to rebuild the FBI, it’ll be bigger and better than ever,” Trump told reporters.

He really is going to try to kill Mueller's investigation and do a political purge of the FBI. This will end very badly -- it's going to be much worse than Watergate.
WilliamSeger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 09:21 AM   #3425
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Behind a paywall, but at least partly freed here:
It really is staggering what some people accept as journalism.

Just two examples:

Quote:
We are to believe that the FBI did not doctor evidence when it made the claims that it was “confident” Russia hacked the US election?
This is an accusation of a very serious crime, presented as an argument from incredulity and completely sans evidence.

Quote:
I am certain that somewhere in those 10,000 Peter Strzok messages are one or two texts exposing how the “insurance policy” against Trump was tied to Russia and the fake “dossier” it had obtained from a corrupt British spy, who was paid by PR smear firm (Fusion GPS), who was paid by Hillary Clinton and the DNC.
Are you certain? The texts were released to journalists. So, if you're that certain, why not read them and post the evidence? That is, after all, your job. But it's easier just to declare that you think the evidence must exist.

I'm honestly gobsmacked that people pay attention to weak **** like this.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 10:22 AM   #3426
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,386
Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Trump: “It’s a shame what happened to the FBI. But we’re going to rebuild the FBI, it’ll be bigger and better than ever,” Trump told reporters.

He really is going to try to kill Mueller's investigation and do a political purge of the FBI. This will end very badly -- it's going to be much worse than Watergate.
This is some scary ****. Surely some Republicans in Congress are going to stop supporting this mob.

Trump is echoing what Hannity and Gingrich talked about yesterday. Combine that with Trump's staff afraid to provide proper intelligence briefs because it sets Trump off, it's not hard to see what is going on here.

The closer the investigation gets to providing a formal report, the more Trump looks like he's losing it.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 10:28 AM   #3427
NoahFence
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
Man I wish they'd finish this. There is real, irreparable damage being done to this country. This sham administration needs to go, NOW.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 10:30 AM   #3428
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,386
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
It really is staggering what some people accept as journalism.

Just two examples:

This is an accusation of a very serious crime, presented as an argument from incredulity and completely sans evidence.

Are you certain? The texts were released to journalists. So, if you're that certain, why not read them and post the evidence? That is, after all, your job. But it's easier just to declare that you think the evidence must exist.

I'm honestly gobsmacked that people pay attention to weak **** like this.
There are some real jewels in the comments following that piece.
Quote:
Shut down the FBI. The organisation is led by traitors who betray America. The FBI had foreknowledge of 9/11 and did nothing.
Interesting the commenter doesn't use American spelling.

There are only 12 comments suggesting not that many people read that source.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 11:02 AM   #3429
Childlike Empress
Banned
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,632
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
It really is staggering what some people accept as journalism.

The purpose of that link was perfectly clear. It's telling that you chose to pick on that and ignore the introduced WSJ article which is pretty much in line with the other outlets from logger's conservativetreehouse to Iran Contra-Parry who is anything but right-wing and spots a scandal if it crosses his way. If it helps. For the time.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 11:10 AM   #3430
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
The purpose of that link was perfectly clear. It's telling that you chose to pick on that and ignore the introduced WSJ article which is pretty much in line with the other outlets from logger's conservativetreehouse to Iran Contra-Parry who is anything but right-wing and spots a scandal if it crosses his way. If it helps. For the time.
Perhaps if you quote the relevant/worthwhile parts of the article?
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 11:18 AM   #3431
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,632
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This is some scary ****. Surely some Republicans in Congress are going to stop supporting this mob.
Yeah. Wow. Or maybe they're just going to jump ship, retire, and watch the freakshow unfold? https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...hington-216103
__________________
"We are enjoined, no matter how uncomfortable it might be, to consider ourselves and our cultural institutions scientifically — not to accept uncritically whatever we’re told; to surmount as best we can our hopes, conceits, and unexamined beliefs; to view ourselves as we really are." - Carl Sagan
kellyb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 11:38 AM   #3432
WilliamSeger
Philosopher
 
WilliamSeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,092
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
The purpose of that link was perfectly clear. It's telling that you chose to pick on that and ignore the introduced WSJ article which is pretty much in line with the other outlets from logger's conservativetreehouse to Iran Contra-Parry who is anything but right-wing and spots a scandal if it crosses his way. If it helps. For the time.
Republicans complained about bias in the Mueller investigation. The IG did an internal investigation which turned up the Strzok texts. He gave them to Mueller, who promptly fired Strzok. A bunch of jackasses are now accusing the FBI of fabricating evidence when they don't even know what evidence Mueller has. And this is all before Flynn and Papadopolous start singing in public.

The only "scandal" I see is that we have some Republicans in congress who are dumb enough to think they can elevate their self-absorbed fascist godling above the law and keep catering to their wealthy donors. The majority of the American people will not stand for that, and we know what to do about it in 2018.

Smart Republicans may have noticed that in the 68 recent special and off-year elections, Democrats outperformed 2016 by an average of 10 points. Rachel Maddow had a chart the other night that showed how much of the House, at least, that puts "in play" if the trend holds. Smart Republicans should be very, very worried, even if Trump doesn't fire Mueller; the future of their party is literally on the line. The only question is how many "smart" Republicans there are. If Trump kills the investigation, the answer to that question will determine if Trump is impeached in 2018 or 2019.
WilliamSeger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 11:40 AM   #3433
Childlike Empress
Banned
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,632
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Perhaps if you quote the relevant/worthwhile parts of the article?

Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 01:22 PM   #3434
Crossbow
Seeking Honesty and Sanity
 
Crossbow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 14,588
Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Trump: “It’s a shame what happened to the FBI. But we’re going to rebuild the FBI, it’ll be bigger and better than ever,” Trump told reporters.

He really is going to try to kill Mueller's investigation and do a political purge of the FBI. This will end very badly -- it's going to be much worse than Watergate.
Thanks much! That is about what I was thinking as well.

I am very sure that Trump would love to be provided with some sort of carte` blanch to tear down the FBI and re-build it. After all, such an opportunity would provide him with a great chance to learn about all the dirt that the FBI has on Trump, stop all of the FBI investigation(s) on Trump, and prevent the FBI from ever launching any more investigations on Trump.

It would be a real 'Win!-Win!-Win!' for Trump.
__________________
A man's best friend is his dogma.
Crossbow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 01:36 PM   #3435
Crossbow
Seeking Honesty and Sanity
 
Crossbow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 14,588
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Uh-oh, now the Wall Street Journal Editorial Board jumps ship: The FBI’s Trump ‘Insurance’

Behind a paywall, but at least partly freed here:
Just in case you are actually interested in this issue, then here is a real piece of journalism for you to peruse ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/power...=.ba44b4770ee0

Senate Republicans try to shield Mueller from criticism of his Russia probe

Quote:
Senate Republicans are scrambling to shield special counsel Robert S. Mueller III from mounting GOP fury about new evidence that members of his team were biased against President Trump, as factions of the party charge that his entire investigation is tainted.

...
Essentially, the article states that while there are a few Republicans who are very angry about the Texts issue, however there are quite a few Republicans who still have a great deal faith in the Muller investigation.
__________________
A man's best friend is his dogma.
Crossbow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 01:54 PM   #3436
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 25,183
That, Childlike Empress, is about the ****iest reply you could have made. How 'bout you man-up and reply in a forthright manner.
SezMe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 02:09 PM   #3437
Childlike Empress
Banned
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,632
Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Essentially, the article states that while there are a few Republicans who are very angry about the Texts issue, however there are quite a few Republicans who still have a great deal faith in the Muller investigation.

Essentially I couldn't care less. Again, this isn't about the Mueller investigation's "bias" (that's what the Washington Pest pre$$titutes want you to believe - real journalism LOL), it is about how it came into being in the first place.

And I must ask that you folks stop bothering me with this strawman nonsense. I know you aren't that dumb. Talk to the mirror, that's where the denial is addressed at in the first place. Good luck overcoming your pride.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 02:23 PM   #3438
Childlike Empress
Banned
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,632
I'll quote the last paragraph from the article on Pat Lang's blog (read the "about" page, these are very serious people) I've linked to yesterday:

Originally Posted by Publius Tacitus
Trump may be a boor and, at times, an insufferable *******. But that conduct by him neither excuses nor justifies the FBI, the Department of Justice, the CIA and the NSA from deciding to engage in a deliberate campaign of disinformation. Yes, there was collusion to affect the result of last year's Presidential campaign. But that was done by American citizens who supported Hillary Clinton and collaborated with British intelligence operatives. This was not a diabolical plot hatched by Vladimir Putin. Nope. This was American government officials taking it upon themselves to intervene in the U.S. election in a so far failed attempt to undo the decision voters made on 8 November 2016. Seems to me that pitch forks and torches would be appropriate at this point.

Let's assume the premises are correct. I don't think anybody of the regular Russia CT posters here agrees with that paragraph. You all think the ends justify the means, in this case, and wish they had been successful. Hence the refusal to even acknowledge the topic. N'est-ce pas?
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 02:45 PM   #3439
WilliamSeger
Philosopher
 
WilliamSeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,092
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Essentially I couldn't care less. Again, this isn't about the Mueller investigation's "bias" (that's what the Washington Pest pre$$titutes want you to believe - real journalism LOL), it is about how it came into being in the first place.
You mean the one about how Obama wanted to wiretap Trump to undermine his campaign, so he had his Hillary-loving flunkies in the FBI use Steele's collection of fake and/or planted disinformation to get warrants? Cool story, bro -- real journalism at its finest.
WilliamSeger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 15th December 2017, 02:50 PM   #3440
Stacko
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
It's worth remembering that Trump originally claimed he fired Comey because he felt Comey was unfair to Hillary in how he investigated the email scandal.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Closed Thread

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:19 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.