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16th August 2017, 07:58 PM | #1521 |
Penultimate Amazing
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To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
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16th August 2017, 09:21 PM | #1522 |
Philosopher
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Quote:
Assange gotta defend his Russian masters. |
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We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann |
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17th August 2017, 06:43 PM | #1523 |
Philosopher
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Nothing major, but perhaps somewhat interesting...
Ukraine hacker cooperating with FBI in Russia probe: report A hacker in Ukraine who goes by the online alias “Profexer” is cooperating with the FBI in its investigation of Russian interference in the U.S. presidential election, The New York Times is reporting. |
17th August 2017, 07:57 PM | #1524 |
Graduate Poster
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Interesting. Has he released any of this proof yet? In other news, WikiLeaks is being accused of turning down leaks on the Russian government.
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17th August 2017, 11:27 PM | #1525 |
Illuminator
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18th August 2017, 02:03 AM | #1526 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage
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18th August 2017, 07:02 AM | #1527 |
Penultimate Amazing
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18th August 2017, 07:42 AM | #1528 |
Penultimate Amazing
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To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
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18th August 2017, 07:50 AM | #1529 |
Penultimate Amazing
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To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
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18th August 2017, 09:07 AM | #1530 |
Penultimate Amazing
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18th August 2017, 09:22 AM | #1531 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 |
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18th August 2017, 10:37 AM | #1532 |
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We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good. |
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18th August 2017, 10:58 AM | #1533 |
Becoming Beth
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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18th August 2017, 01:19 PM | #1534 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Well, yes. Is there any opinion more valuable to me than my own?
By simple definition, I promote anyone I consider better than myself to either (a) doesn't live in Parker County, or (b) good, superior, or excellent rhythm player, and thus preserve my position as best in class. Works for anyone you wish to denigrate, as well, by simply modifying the premises. Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk |
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"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 |
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21st August 2017, 07:43 AM | #1535 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Looks like Mueller taking a long look at Fredo's meeting with the Russians to get dirt on Hillary.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/2...fBn8pmVw?amp=1 |
23rd August 2017, 07:54 PM | #1536 |
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The calorie count of this nothingburger keeps rising...
Exclusive: Top Trump aide's email draws new scrutiny in Russia inquiry Washington (CNN) — Congressional investigators have unearthed an email from a top Trump aide that referenced a previously unreported effort to arrange a meeting last year between Trump campaign officials and Russian President Vladimir Putin, according to sources with direct knowledge of the matter. |
27th August 2017, 08:43 PM | #1537 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Trump was trying to make a giant Moscow hotel deal while he was running for President, and was told it would help him if he praised Putin:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...mepage%2Fstory |
28th August 2017, 09:50 AM | #1538 |
Uncritical "thinker"
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A story in The Hill about houw Russian bots amplify the alt Right
http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecur...fies-alt-right |
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OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK |
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28th August 2017, 02:04 PM | #1539 |
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And the hits keep on coming... This link has more of the substance of the back and forth emails between Cohen and Sater https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...uring-campaign
My favorite quote, “Our boy can become president of the USA and we can engineer it,” Sater said, according to an email published by the New York Times. “I will get all of Putin’s team to buy in on this, I will manage this process.” In another email, Sater looked forward to the eventual ribbon-cutting on a Trump Tower in the Russian capital. “I will get Putin on this program and we will get Donald elected,” he wrote. |
28th August 2017, 03:45 PM | #1540 |
Nasty Woman
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28th August 2017, 04:08 PM | #1541 |
Penultimate Amazing
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28th August 2017, 06:04 PM | #1542 |
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I honestly don't understand how some of these bits don't make you step back and question them some.
The most solid allegations in that story are from:
Quote:
Quote:
ETA: Consider a person with a microphone interviewing four people on the street: Persons 1, 2, and 3... Interviewer: Are you familiar with the investigation into Trump being led by Meuller? Random person on the street: Yes, I'm familiar with the matter. Interviewer: Do you think prosecutors want to know what Trump knew about the meeting between his son and the russions in June? Random person on the street: Yes, I think prosecutors want to know that. Person 4... Interviewer: Are you familiar with Meuller's strategy regarding his Trump investigation? Random person on the street: Yeah, I think so. Interviewer: Do you think it's now of interest to prosecutors whether or not Trump made a knowingly false statement? Random person on the street: Oh totally, I think they totally are interested in whether he made a knowingly false statement! Interviewer: That's a wrap boys, we've got all the quotes we need, let's print this sucker! ++++++++++++++++++ Maybe, maybe not. But since all we have is essentially "someone said something", it leaves a bit to be desired in terms of solid evidence, wouldn't you think? |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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28th August 2017, 06:25 PM | #1543 |
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You can argue that, but be warned; when the reports are confirmed you will look pretty silly.
Or it may be that NBC have it wrong and their sources are lying, in which case you will be vindicated! But that scenario leaves a bit to be desired in terms of solid evidence. |
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We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good. |
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28th August 2017, 06:38 PM | #1544 |
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"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States...nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov |
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28th August 2017, 07:01 PM | #1545 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I suppose that if I had never read a newspaper in my life and hence didn't know how they used terms like "familiar with" when citing unidentified sources, then I'd be about as puzzled as you pretend to be. ETA: Here's an article about Kaczynski (the unabomber) using the phrase "sources familiar with the investigation". Here's an article about the Hillary email investigation which repeatedly uses similar phrasing. Here's an article using the same phrase discussing the Martha Stewart insider trading investigation. Did your spidey senses tingle on each of these articles too? |
28th August 2017, 08:41 PM | #1546 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I don't think it's the vague and anonymous sourcing which is the fundamental problem. The fundamental problem is the subject matter. For some reason it's newsworthy that federal investigators are keenly focused on a nothing burger of an issue. It's only a small step closer to a crime than lying about farting in an elevator.
"According to several sources familiar with the matter, federal investigators are keenly focused on President Trump's role in deflecting attention from the source of a particularly fragrant gaseous emission of the lower colon by a human being in an elevator who was allegedly involved in the campaign. "These same sources say that when the gaseous emission was first detected by the olfactory organs of several human beings present at the time, Trump repeatedly claimed that 'whoever smelt it dealt it.' "Federal investigators had previously uncovered evidence that Trump's claim is untrue in general, although it may have been true in this specific case. Sources say that investigators are still unsure about Trump's motives. Whether he 'dealt it' or was covering up for somebody close to him who did, or even whether he actually holds such scientifically unsound beliefs is unknown at this time." |
29th August 2017, 07:00 AM | #1547 |
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To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
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29th August 2017, 07:50 AM | #1548 |
Fiend God
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29th August 2017, 07:58 AM | #1549 |
Penultimate Amazing
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IMO it depends on the nature of the claim and the media through which it is presented.
If the National Inquirer claims that it has evidence of a Nazi moonbase from unnamed NASA sources then I think there should be considerable skepticism. If the Washington Post carries a story relating to President Trump based on unnamed sources but where the claims are consistent with the President's known behaviour the some skepticism is still warranted (after all, the unnamed source could have their own reasons for making **** up) but rather less than for the first claim. If the author of the story also has a string track record of reliably delivering from unnamed sources then whilst skepticism is still necessary, one again a lower threshold may be appropriate. |
29th August 2017, 08:11 AM | #1550 |
Penultimate Amazing
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We should proportion our trust in unnamed sources to the prior proven reliability of the news outlet and/or the individual reporter, especially their reliability with respect to unnamed sources. If they have a good record of quoting reliable sources who turned out to be correct, we have to factor that into our thinking.
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“Knowledge is Power; France is Bacon.” |
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29th August 2017, 08:13 AM | #1551 |
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29th August 2017, 08:14 AM | #1552 |
Banned
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29th August 2017, 08:19 AM | #1553 |
Fiend God
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29th August 2017, 09:43 AM | #1554 |
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Here are two blogposts on 538 about this
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-attention-to/
Quote:
Quote:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-attention-to/
Quote:
Quote:
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29th August 2017, 10:06 AM | #1555 |
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OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK |
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29th August 2017, 03:23 PM | #1556 |
Penultimate Amazing
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It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150 |
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29th August 2017, 03:57 PM | #1557 |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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29th August 2017, 03:58 PM | #1558 |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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29th August 2017, 04:22 PM | #1559 |
Penultimate Amazing
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During Watergate the simple question was : What did the President know?
In this case the equivalent question is : what did Candidate Trump know? If he "weighed in" on the original sketchy response when news of the Fredo meeting broke then he must have known all about it by then at least. Unless he was still being deceived, which is surely not a claim Trump would ever make. He might allow his lawyers to make it, but he'd tweet a denial right after and then bring it up at his next rally. "I so knew who was at that meeting, there were some great people at that meeting, on many sides, many sides". |
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It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150 |
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29th August 2017, 04:22 PM | #1560 |
Penultimate Amazing
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“Knowledge is Power; France is Bacon.” |
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