|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
10th December 2017, 11:07 AM | #3241 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,092
|
Lol
Sorry, I should have been clear that I wasn't much interested in that "sting" nonsense you linked to (lol which would actually make the Trump administration look even more guilty if true). What I was referring to is your flailing around for something to believe that might stop the walls from closing in on that bunch of *********** morons. |
10th December 2017, 11:11 AM | #3242 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
|
|
10th December 2017, 11:25 AM | #3243 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,466
|
|
__________________
Don't feed the trolls. Just ignore them. |
|
10th December 2017, 11:26 AM | #3244 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,092
|
|
10th December 2017, 12:29 PM | #3245 |
Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 141
|
The purpose of the Steele document was not some high and mighty quest for the truth but someone being paid (first by a conservative anti-Trumper and later by by pro-Hillary elements) to come up with allegations and dirt on Trump. If Steele came up with any info that tended to exonerate Trump what possible motive could he have for including it given that he was being paid to do exactly the opposite?
|
10th December 2017, 12:35 PM | #3246 | ||
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,382
|
It's called integrity. Some people actually have it. ...snip...
If you look at the sequence of events, regardless of who paid Steele, no one paid him to take the information he had uncovered to the FBI. He did that on his own because he was alarmed by the facts he was uncovering. In addition, much of the information in the dossier has been corroborated by additional sources. You might want to look into that. |
||
10th December 2017, 01:13 PM | #3247 |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,632
|
I hereby declare WilliamSeger the winner of the Keith Olberman-Award for most un-amused sounding allegedly amused person on the internet.
|
10th December 2017, 01:20 PM | #3248 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,778
|
|
10th December 2017, 02:03 PM | #3249 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 31,644
|
|
__________________
OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK |
|
10th December 2017, 02:16 PM | #3250 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
|
|
10th December 2017, 02:17 PM | #3251 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
|
|
10th December 2017, 02:36 PM | #3252 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,092
|
|
10th December 2017, 02:45 PM | #3253 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
|
Here’s a clue for you. Trump isn’t necessarily behind finding these leaks, Sessions is. Knowing the Trump/Sessions relationship, Trump is out of the loop.
If one is found and obviously there are many more, it proves that the departments have been politicized. Thanks for playin. |
10th December 2017, 02:54 PM | #3254 |
Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 141
|
|
10th December 2017, 03:00 PM | #3255 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,092
|
Lol
You're suggesting Trump is so clueless, he just thinks it's all fake news, but the people who know they're in deep doo-doo are looking for leakers? Other than making the joke even funnier, what does that do? But yes, it implies that the "departments have been politicized" with Trump's mortal enemies: truth-tellers. |
10th December 2017, 03:04 PM | #3256 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 25,102
|
Quite. He would take account of information "tending to exonerate" in order to maintain the quality of his product. Apart from anything else, if Steele finds this information so could somebody else and he'd be called on it.
Quote:
This is where the idea that Steele fabricated dirt to satisfy his customers. Nobody will pay for material that won't stand up to inspection: if they want that they'll make it up themselves or get it free from Alex Jones. Like Trump does. Besides which, the real business is going on around the Trump Tower meeting, entirely unrelated to Steele. Thank you, Fredo. |
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150 |
|
10th December 2017, 03:15 PM | #3257 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 10,335
|
|
__________________
"To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage
|
|
10th December 2017, 03:17 PM | #3258 |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,632
|
|
10th December 2017, 03:51 PM | #3259 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
|
|
10th December 2017, 04:38 PM | #3260 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,092
|
Lol
Nope, what has been shown it that the Trump administration would like to "hopelessly politicize" anyone and anything that threatens to expose whatever it is that they are trying so hard to cover up. And it's been shown that 32% of likely voters are incredibly gullible. |
10th December 2017, 04:45 PM | #3261 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Philippine Republic
Posts: 1,634
|
|
__________________
If bands were cars, Band Maid would be a pink Nissan GT-R with a Hello Kitty graphic wrap. |
|
10th December 2017, 04:53 PM | #3262 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
|
|
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
|
10th December 2017, 04:54 PM | #3263 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
|
|
10th December 2017, 05:09 PM | #3264 |
Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 141
|
The 2016 election was a total sham! Think about it! Everyone knows that Donald Trump is a shyster conman. And have you noticed that the Trump administration has started to act very strangely? They obviously don’t want this story getting out. I mean, what would happen if people began asking if Putin controlled The Oval Office? Well, they may be able to fool the sheeple, but the members of mainstream media aren’t swallowing their story. Look, don’t take it from me; Rachel Maddow is convinced as well. But we have to act fast, because our very democracy is at risk.
(CT boilerplate taken from https://www.wired.com/2010/02/pl_print_conspiracy/) I must admit that this whole thing rings eerily similar to a conspiracy theory to me. Here's a few CT bullet points to consider: 1) Wanting to make sense out of something that wasn't thought possible. (The election of Trump.) 2) Those who support it claim to be truth-seekers and decry those who don't as stupid sheeple. (Many posts in this thread.) 3) Unfalsifiability. (How the Steele dossier is considered. This is one of Maddow's points.) 4) It also sounds a lot like 9/11 truthers who on the one hand claim GWB was a blithering idiot while simultaneously giving him credit for being behind some grand conspiracy. 5) Then there's the mentality that all one has to do (if you're bright enough and truth-seeking enough) is "connect the dots" to know that this is what happened. I urge everyone who buys into this Trump-Russia collusion stuff to take a step back and try to objectively examine their behavior. Do conspiracies actually occur? Yes, of course they do. However, there's been nothing to date that proves that such a conspiracy took place between Trump and Russia. And this whole thing pretty much started with one of Hillary's many excuses for why she lost. You may think that Mueller's team has all sorts of evidence and that some grand finale of indictments is in the pipeline but all of that is mere speculation. My personal opinion is that Trump and crew would would not have the wherewithal to pull it off and have kept it secret for so long but, then again, I didn't think he'd be able to beat Hillary so I could be wrong. |
10th December 2017, 06:38 PM | #3265 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,778
|
|
10th December 2017, 07:03 PM | #3266 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,400
|
It doesn't have to be a Macchiavellian scheme by the Trump camp. Based on the current known evidence the Trump camp had communications with the Russian government and lied about it. I think there are other questions about Trump financial ties to Russian oligarchs that may compromise him. Presumably Mueller has been tracking down these questions. Trump doesn't have to be some mastermind to have engaged in this behavior. Frankly, the administration having these problems is more indicative of a blundering idiot than a mastermind. My guess is if someone like McConnell were president and had these connections, there would be nothing traceable. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
__________________
"I kayak, therefore I am" |
|
10th December 2017, 07:14 PM | #3267 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,247
|
I take issue with your point 1). Not all on the anti-Trump side believe that the atypical interaction between the Trump campaign and Russian officials (and yes it has been established that there was an unusual amount of interaction) was the cause of Trump's victory. MHO is that Comey's announcement was a larger factor.
I also take issue with your point 3). In fact, it makes little sense. Many criminal defendants are found not guilty without being able to prove that they actually are not guilty. Are we to think that criminal charges are often invalid because they are not "falsifiable"? 4) is just plain wrong. A conspiracy such has been alleged does not take a whole lot of intelligence to pull off. I don't understand 5). Many criminal cases and scientific theories don't have one single "smoking gun" piece of evidence that provides definitive proof. It actually is often necessary to consider multiple pieces of evidence, i.e., it requires "connecting the dots". The problem with the 9/11 Truthers is that many of their dots either have alternative explanations, are speculative, or require working backwards from an assumed conclusion. The reason why there is an investigation into Trump campaign-Russia coordination is because not everything remained secret, e.g., Sessions' meetings with the Russian ambassador, so I disagree with your conclusion. |
__________________
"Facts are stupid things." Ronald Reagan |
|
11th December 2017, 05:42 AM | #3268 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
|
And yet even before the election - before the firing of Comey - the FBI was described by FBI agents as "Trumpland" because of the massive support for Trump and antipathy for Clinton.
The sense of persecution the right-wing has just astounds me. They can have agencies that are actually filled with people on the same side as them, and which are actively working for their side, and they can still whine about how they're victims and their spaces aren't safe enough. Boo hoo. |
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
|
11th December 2017, 06:13 AM | #3269 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
|
|
11th December 2017, 06:16 AM | #3270 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,778
|
|
11th December 2017, 06:21 AM | #3271 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
|
|
11th December 2017, 06:32 AM | #3272 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
|
I mean, I know you won't actually read it and will dismiss it out of hand, but: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...y-donald-trump
Quote:
Boo hoo. Poor babies. |
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
|
11th December 2017, 06:33 AM | #3273 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
|
|
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
|
11th December 2017, 08:17 AM | #3274 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
|
|
11th December 2017, 08:19 AM | #3275 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
|
|
11th December 2017, 08:24 AM | #3276 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
|
|
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
|
11th December 2017, 08:26 AM | #3277 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
|
It is hilarious, yes. Especially coming immediately after some posts in which you dispute your own party in saying that non-partisan wrongdoing was partisan wrongdoing in order to characterise yourself as an oppressed victim, and ignore the evidence that the FBI was anti-Clinton and pro-Trump during the election to pretend that the FBI has a Clinton bias in order to paint yourself as an oppressed victim.
Don't worry. I'm sure mummy will kiss it better for you. |
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
|
11th December 2017, 05:21 PM | #3278 |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,632
|
The plot thickens. Whoosh goes the boomerang.
|
11th December 2017, 05:24 PM | #3279 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,145
|
Here’s another report on it CE
Definite bombshell though https://theconservativetreehouse.com...p/#more-143290 |
11th December 2017, 05:31 PM | #3280 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,092
|
Then you'd better duck.
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|