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Tags donald trump , lying charges , Russia conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old 10th December 2017, 11:07 AM   #3241
WilliamSeger
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Way to once again completely miss what is happening here.
Lol

Sorry, I should have been clear that I wasn't much interested in that "sting" nonsense you linked to (lol which would actually make the Trump administration look even more guilty if true). What I was referring to is your flailing around for something to believe that might stop the walls from closing in on that bunch of *********** morons.
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Old 10th December 2017, 11:11 AM   #3242
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Lol

Sorry, I should have been clear that I wasn't much interested in that "sting" nonsense you linked to (lol which would actually make the Trump administration look even more guilty if true). What I was referring to is your flailing around for something to believe that might stop the walls from closing in on that bunch of *********** morons.
lol

Sure that’s reasonable.


Im not surprised that you aren’t interested. Makes it more exciting!
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Old 10th December 2017, 11:25 AM   #3243
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol
Your skepticism is typical here.
Yes I did apply skepticism. You should try it sometime. Reading comprehension is useful too.
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Old 10th December 2017, 11:26 AM   #3244
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
lol

Sure that’s reasonable.


Im not surprised that you aren’t interested. Makes it more exciting!
lol

Oh, I'm quite sure TrumpCo would love to catch whoever has been leaking. If they do, I'm just amused at the thought of you saying, "They caught the guy who was leaking fake news to the Post."
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Old 10th December 2017, 12:29 PM   #3245
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Really? Trump supporters are so desperate that they consider that a "bombshell?" Steele kept working on the dossier after the contract ended and on trying to get the information somewhere it would make a difference, because he thought it was important that the Republican candidate was compromised by Russians. I would expect him to contact the Obama administration. If he hadn't, I'd wonder why.

I hate to admit how much I'm enjoying your squirming.
The purpose of the Steele document was not some high and mighty quest for the truth but someone being paid (first by a conservative anti-Trumper and later by by pro-Hillary elements) to come up with allegations and dirt on Trump. If Steele came up with any info that tended to exonerate Trump what possible motive could he have for including it given that he was being paid to do exactly the opposite?
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Old 10th December 2017, 12:35 PM   #3246
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Originally Posted by Iamafalser View Post
The purpose of the Steele document was not some high and mighty quest for the truth but someone being paid (first by a conservative anti-Trumper and later by by pro-Hillary elements) to come up with allegations and dirt on Trump. If Steele came up with any info that tended to exonerate Trump what possible motive could he have for including it given that he was being paid to do exactly the opposite?
It's called integrity. Some people actually have it. ...snip...
Edited by jsfisher:  Edited for compliance with Rule 12 of the Membership Agreement.


If you look at the sequence of events, regardless of who paid Steele, no one paid him to take the information he had uncovered to the FBI. He did that on his own because he was alarmed by the facts he was uncovering.

In addition, much of the information in the dossier has been corroborated by additional sources. You might want to look into that.

Last edited by jsfisher; 10th December 2017 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 10th December 2017, 01:13 PM   #3247
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I hereby declare WilliamSeger the winner of the Keith Olberman-Award for most un-amused sounding allegedly amused person on the internet.
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Old 10th December 2017, 01:20 PM   #3248
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Originally Posted by Iamafalser View Post
If Steele came up with any info that tended to exonerate Trump what possible motive could he have for including it given that he was being paid to do exactly the opposite?

He wouldn't include the exonerating information, but it's reasonable to expect that he would exclude the dirt that turns out to be nothing. It's very likely there's a lot of stuff that wasn't included for this very reason.
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Old 10th December 2017, 02:03 PM   #3249
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Originally Posted by Iamafalser View Post
The purpose of the Steele document was not some high and mighty quest for the truth but someone being paid (first by a conservative anti-Trumper and later by by pro-Hillary elements) to come up with allegations and dirt on Trump. If Steele came up with any info that tended to exonerate Trump what possible motive could he have for including it given that he was being paid to do exactly the opposite?
Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
He wouldn't include the exonerating information, but it's reasonable to expect that he would exclude the dirt that turns out to be nothing. It's very likely there's a lot of stuff that wasn't included for this very reason.
Yes, I'm trying to work out how that could occur.

"I've found evidence that he has corrupt business dealings with Russians and that Putin could blackmail him, but I have found evidence for a perfectly innocent explanation"
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Old 10th December 2017, 02:16 PM   #3250
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
Yes I did apply skepticism. You should try it sometime. Reading comprehension is useful too.
No actually you didn’t. And I understood exactly what you posted.
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Old 10th December 2017, 02:17 PM   #3251
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
lol

Oh, I'm quite sure TrumpCo would love to catch whoever has been leaking. If they do, I'm just amused at the thought of you saying, "They caught the guy who was leaking fake news to the Post."
Do you get any kind of clue on what you just posted? It was fabulous, thanks!

Last edited by logger; 10th December 2017 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 10th December 2017, 02:36 PM   #3252
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Do you get any kind of clue on what you just posted? It was fabulous, thanks!
Yep, but it's not funny if I have to explain it.

Trump claims anything that doesn't flatter Trump to be "fake news" of course, but he explicitly accuses the media of fabricating disinformation to make him look bad and undermine his administration. But if that's really what the Post is doing, then why is he looking for leakers? And regardless of his motive, what does it really imply if he finds one?
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Old 10th December 2017, 02:45 PM   #3253
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Yep, but it's not funny if I have to explain it.

Trump claims anything that doesn't flatter Trump to be "fake news" of course, but he explicitly accuses the media of fabricating disinformation to make him look bad and undermine his administration. But if that's really what the Post is doing, then why is he looking for leakers? And regardless of his motive, what does it really imply if he finds one?
Here’s a clue for you. Trump isn’t necessarily behind finding these leaks, Sessions is. Knowing the Trump/Sessions relationship, Trump is out of the loop.

If one is found and obviously there are many more, it proves that the departments have been politicized. Thanks for playin.
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Old 10th December 2017, 02:54 PM   #3254
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
He wouldn't include the exonerating information, but it's reasonable to expect that he would exclude the dirt that turns out to be nothing. It's very likely there's a lot of stuff that wasn't included for this very reason.
You mean like the pee tape stuff? How is that at all relevant to Trump illegally colluding with Russia to subvert the will of the American people?
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Old 10th December 2017, 03:00 PM   #3255
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Here’s a clue for you. Trump isn’t necessarily behind finding these leaks, Sessions is. Knowing the Trump/Sessions relationship, Trump is out of the loop.

If one is found and obviously there are many more, it proves that the departments have been politicized. Thanks for playin.
Lol

You're suggesting Trump is so clueless, he just thinks it's all fake news, but the people who know they're in deep doo-doo are looking for leakers? Other than making the joke even funnier, what does that do?

But yes, it implies that the "departments have been politicized" with Trump's mortal enemies: truth-tellers.
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Old 10th December 2017, 03:04 PM   #3256
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
He wouldn't include the exonerating information, but it's reasonable to expect that he would exclude the dirt that turns out to be nothing.
Quite. He would take account of information "tending to exonerate" in order to maintain the quality of his product. Apart from anything else, if Steele finds this information so could somebody else and he'd be called on it.

Quote:
It's very likely there's a lot of stuff that wasn't included for this very reason.
His livelihood depends on his reputation for reliability, after all, and that's taking absolutely no harm from the spitballs of Childlike Empress and logger.

This is where the idea that Steele fabricated dirt to satisfy his customers. Nobody will pay for material that won't stand up to inspection: if they want that they'll make it up themselves or get it free from Alex Jones. Like Trump does.

Besides which, the real business is going on around the Trump Tower meeting, entirely unrelated to Steele. Thank you, Fredo.
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Old 10th December 2017, 03:15 PM   #3257
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Was Glenn Greenwald in a coma through the run up to the Iraq War? I mean that's hard to top for journalistic failures.
And that's only the tip of the iceberg.
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Old 10th December 2017, 03:17 PM   #3258
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Old 10th December 2017, 03:51 PM   #3259
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post

But yes, it implies that the "departments have been politicized" with Trump's mortal enemies: truth-tellers.
Lol

As if any Republican President wouldn’t be their mortal enemy. At least you have now been shown and you agree that both agencies have been hopelessly politicized. And even though you think that’s a great thing, it isn’t. Thanks for playin!
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Old 10th December 2017, 04:38 PM   #3260
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

As if any Republican President wouldn’t be their mortal enemy. At least you have now been shown and you agree that both agencies have been hopelessly politicized. And even though you think that’s a great thing, it isn’t. Thanks for playin!
Lol

Nope, what has been shown it that the Trump administration would like to "hopelessly politicize" anyone and anything that threatens to expose whatever it is that they are trying so hard to cover up. And it's been shown that 32% of likely voters are incredibly gullible.
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Old 10th December 2017, 04:45 PM   #3261
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post

The only thing that interests me about tweets like this is to what degree he believes his own BS. But there is in fact a stain on the USA. It’s orange.
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Old 10th December 2017, 04:53 PM   #3262
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
He's talking about Fox News being forced to withdraw a story in which they accused one of Moore's victims of forgery, right? That's what's got him so annoyed?
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Old 10th December 2017, 04:54 PM   #3263
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Lol

Nope, what has been shown it that the Trump administration would like to "hopelessly politicize" anyone and anything that threatens to expose whatever it is that they are trying so hard to cover up. And it's been shown that 32% of likely voters are incredibly gullible.
Lol

No yours really isn’t reality.

Eric Holder, Obama and Clinton have done their level best to fill these agencies with libs, it’s quite clear.
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Old 10th December 2017, 05:09 PM   #3264
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The 2016 election was a total sham! Think about it! Everyone knows that Donald Trump is a shyster conman. And have you noticed that the Trump administration has started to act very strangely? They obviously don’t want this story getting out. I mean, what would happen if people began asking if Putin controlled The Oval Office? Well, they may be able to fool the sheeple, but the members of mainstream media aren’t swallowing their story. Look, don’t take it from me; Rachel Maddow is convinced as well. But we have to act fast, because our very democracy is at risk.

(CT boilerplate taken from https://www.wired.com/2010/02/pl_print_conspiracy/)

I must admit that this whole thing rings eerily similar to a conspiracy theory to me.

Here's a few CT bullet points to consider:

1) Wanting to make sense out of something that wasn't thought possible. (The election of Trump.)

2) Those who support it claim to be truth-seekers and decry those who don't as stupid sheeple. (Many posts in this thread.)

3) Unfalsifiability. (How the Steele dossier is considered. This is one of Maddow's points.)

4) It also sounds a lot like 9/11 truthers who on the one hand claim GWB was a blithering idiot while simultaneously giving him credit for being behind some grand conspiracy.

5) Then there's the mentality that all one has to do (if you're bright enough and truth-seeking enough) is "connect the dots" to know that this is what happened.

I urge everyone who buys into this Trump-Russia collusion stuff to take a step back and try to objectively examine their behavior.

Do conspiracies actually occur? Yes, of course they do.

However, there's been nothing to date that proves that such a conspiracy took place between Trump and Russia. And this whole thing pretty much started with one of Hillary's many excuses for why she lost.

You may think that Mueller's team has all sorts of evidence and that some grand finale of indictments is in the pipeline but all of that is mere speculation.

My personal opinion is that Trump and crew would would not have the wherewithal to pull it off and have kept it secret for so long but, then again, I didn't think he'd be able to beat Hillary so I could be wrong.

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Old 10th December 2017, 06:38 PM   #3265
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Originally Posted by Iamafalser View Post
You mean like the pee tape stuff? How is that at all relevant to Trump illegally colluding with Russia to subvert the will of the American people?

Because it's one of several tapes alleged to be held by Russia and being used to blackmail Trump.

Last edited by Cl1mh4224rd; 10th December 2017 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 10th December 2017, 07:03 PM   #3266
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Originally Posted by Iamafalser View Post
The 2016 election was a total sham! Think about it! Everyone knows that Donald Trump is a shyster conman. And have you noticed that the Trump administration has started to act very strangely? They obviously don’t want this story getting out. I mean, what would happen if people began asking if Putin controlled The Oval Office? Well, they may be able to fool the sheeple, but the members of mainstream media aren’t swallowing their story. Look, don’t take it from me; Rachel Maddow is convinced as well. But we have to act fast, because our very democracy is at risk.

(CT boilerplate taken from https://www.wired.com/2010/02/pl_print_conspiracy/)

I must admit that this whole thing rings eerily similar to a conspiracy theory to me.

Here's a few CT bullet points to consider:

1) Wanting to make sense out of something that wasn't thought possible. (The election of Trump.)

2) Those who support it claim to be truth-seekers and decry those who don't as stupid sheeple. (Many posts in this thread.)

3) Unfalsifiability. (How the Steele dossier is considered. This is one of Maddow's points.)

4) It also sounds a lot like 9/11 truthers who on the one hand claim GWB was a blithering idiot while simultaneously giving him credit for being behind some grand conspiracy.

5) Then there's the mentality that all one has to do (if you're bright enough and truth-seeking enough) is "connect the dots" to know that this is what happened.

I urge everyone who buys into this Trump-Russia collusion stuff to take a step back and try to objectively examine their behavior.

Do conspiracies actually occur? Yes, of course they do.

However, there's been nothing to date that proves that such a conspiracy took place between Trump and Russia. And this whole thing pretty much started with one of Hillary's many excuses for why she lost.

You may think that Mueller's team has all sorts of evidence and that some grand finale of indictments is in the pipeline but all of that is mere speculation.

My personal opinion is that Trump and crew would would not have the wherewithal to pull it off and have kept it secret for so long but, then again, I didn't think he'd be able to beat Hillary so I could be wrong.


It doesn't have to be a Macchiavellian scheme by the Trump camp. Based on the current known evidence the Trump camp had communications with the Russian government and lied about it. I think there are other questions about Trump financial ties to Russian oligarchs that may compromise him. Presumably Mueller has been tracking down these questions. Trump doesn't have to be some mastermind to have engaged in this behavior. Frankly, the administration having these problems is more indicative of a blundering idiot than a mastermind. My guess is if someone like McConnell were president and had these connections, there would be nothing traceable.


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Old 10th December 2017, 07:14 PM   #3267
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Originally Posted by Iamafalser View Post
The 2016 election was a total sham! Think about it! Everyone knows that Donald Trump is a shyster conman. And have you noticed that the Trump administration has started to act very strangely? They obviously don’t want this story getting out. I mean, what would happen if people began asking if Putin controlled The Oval Office? Well, they may be able to fool the sheeple, but the members of mainstream media aren’t swallowing their story. Look, don’t take it from me; Rachel Maddow is convinced as well. But we have to act fast, because our very democracy is at risk.

(CT boilerplate taken from https://www.wired.com/2010/02/pl_print_conspiracy/)

I must admit that this whole thing rings eerily similar to a conspiracy theory to me.

Here's a few CT bullet points to consider:

1) Wanting to make sense out of something that wasn't thought possible. (The election of Trump.)

2) Those who support it claim to be truth-seekers and decry those who don't as stupid sheeple. (Many posts in this thread.)

3) Unfalsifiability. (How the Steele dossier is considered. This is one of Maddow's points.)

4) It also sounds a lot like 9/11 truthers who on the one hand claim GWB was a blithering idiot while simultaneously giving him credit for being behind some grand conspiracy.

5) Then there's the mentality that all one has to do (if you're bright enough and truth-seeking enough) is "connect the dots" to know that this is what happened.

I urge everyone who buys into this Trump-Russia collusion stuff to take a step back and try to objectively examine their behavior.

Do conspiracies actually occur? Yes, of course they do.

However, there's been nothing to date that proves that such a conspiracy took place between Trump and Russia. And this whole thing pretty much started with one of Hillary's many excuses for why she lost.

You may think that Mueller's team has all sorts of evidence and that some grand finale of indictments is in the pipeline but all of that is mere speculation.

My personal opinion is that Trump and crew would would not have the wherewithal to pull it off and have kept it secret for so long but, then again, I didn't think he'd be able to beat Hillary so I could be wrong.
I take issue with your point 1). Not all on the anti-Trump side believe that the atypical interaction between the Trump campaign and Russian officials (and yes it has been established that there was an unusual amount of interaction) was the cause of Trump's victory. MHO is that Comey's announcement was a larger factor.

I also take issue with your point 3). In fact, it makes little sense. Many criminal defendants are found not guilty without being able to prove that they actually are not guilty. Are we to think that criminal charges are often invalid because they are not "falsifiable"?

4) is just plain wrong. A conspiracy such has been alleged does not take a whole lot of intelligence to pull off.

I don't understand 5). Many criminal cases and scientific theories don't have one single "smoking gun" piece of evidence that provides definitive proof. It actually is often necessary to consider multiple pieces of evidence, i.e., it requires "connecting the dots". The problem with the 9/11 Truthers is that many of their dots either have alternative explanations, are speculative, or require working backwards from an assumed conclusion.

The reason why there is an investigation into Trump campaign-Russia coordination is because not everything remained secret, e.g., Sessions' meetings with the Russian ambassador, so I disagree with your conclusion.
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Old 11th December 2017, 05:42 AM   #3268
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Eric Holder, Obama and Clinton have done their level best to fill these agencies with libs, it’s quite clear.
And yet even before the election - before the firing of Comey - the FBI was described by FBI agents as "Trumpland" because of the massive support for Trump and antipathy for Clinton.

The sense of persecution the right-wing has just astounds me. They can have agencies that are actually filled with people on the same side as them, and which are actively working for their side, and they can still whine about how they're victims and their spaces aren't safe enough.

Boo hoo.
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Old 11th December 2017, 06:13 AM   #3269
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
And yet even before the election - before the firing of Comey - the FBI was described by FBI agents as "Trumpland" because of the massive support for Trump and antipathy for Clinton.
Prove it!
Quote:
The sense of persecution the right-wing has just astounds me. They can have agencies that are actually filled with people on the same side as them, and which are actively working for their side, and they can still whine about how they're victims and their spaces aren't safe enough.

Boo hoo.
The IRS scandal would be a clue?
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Old 11th December 2017, 06:16 AM   #3270
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
And yet even before the election - before the firing of Comey - the FBI was described by FBI agents as "Trumpland" because of the massive support for Trump and antipathy for Clinton.

The sense of persecution the right-wing has just astounds me. They can have agencies that are actually filled with people on the same side as them, and which are actively working for their side, and they can still whine about how they're victims and their spaces aren't safe enough.

Boo hoo.

I highly suspect the persecution complex is carried over from Christianity. They view sticking to their guns in the face of such insurmountable odds as a virtue, and any victory as a validation of the righteousness of their cause.
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Old 11th December 2017, 06:21 AM   #3271
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
I highly suspect the persecution complex is carried over from Christianity. They view sticking to their guns in the face of such insurmountable odds as a virtue, and any victory as a validation of the righteousness of their cause.
Lol

That is impressive, except we don’t have just any victory, we have the vast majority of victories and now we’re just cleaning up the left overs.
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Old 11th December 2017, 06:32 AM   #3272
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Prove it!
I mean, I know you won't actually read it and will dismiss it out of hand, but: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...y-donald-trump

Quote:
The IRS scandal would be a clue?
You mean the "scandal" that didn't involve any partisanship from the IRS and which even Trump's administration isn't interested in trying to prosecute? The one where the investigation itself was Republican dominated and a review of which found that it had deliberately ignored evidence against partisanship?

Boo hoo. Poor babies.
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Old 11th December 2017, 06:33 AM   #3273
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

That is impressive, except we don’t have just any victory, we have the vast majority of victories and now we’re just cleaning up the left overs.
You have "the vast majority of victories", yet you're still characterising yourself as an oppressed victim. Wah wah wah.
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Old 11th December 2017, 08:17 AM   #3274
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I mean, I know you won't actually read it and will dismiss it out of hand, but:
Yes, dismissed!


Quote:
You mean the "scandal" that didn't involve any partisanship from the IRS and which even Trump's administration isn't interested in trying to prosecute? The one where the investigation itself was Republican dominated and a review of which found that it had deliberately ignored evidence against partisanship?

Boo hoo. Poor babies.
Didn’t involve partisanship? Lol
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Old 11th December 2017, 08:19 AM   #3275
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
You have "the vast majority of victories", yet you're still characterising yourself as an oppressed victim. Wah wah wah.
Lol

I suppose you could post the part where I characterize myself that way?Hilarious!
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Old 11th December 2017, 08:24 AM   #3276
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Yes, dismissed!
Indeed.

Quote:
Didn’t involve partisanship? Lol
If you think that's untrue, then take it up with the Republicans.
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Old 11th December 2017, 08:26 AM   #3277
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

I suppose you could post the part where I characterize myself that way?Hilarious!
It is hilarious, yes. Especially coming immediately after some posts in which you dispute your own party in saying that non-partisan wrongdoing was partisan wrongdoing in order to characterise yourself as an oppressed victim, and ignore the evidence that the FBI was anti-Clinton and pro-Trump during the election to pretend that the FBI has a Clinton bias in order to paint yourself as an oppressed victim.

Don't worry. I'm sure mummy will kiss it better for you.
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Old 11th December 2017, 05:21 PM   #3278
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The plot thickens. Whoosh goes the boomerang.
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Old 11th December 2017, 05:24 PM   #3279
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Here’s another report on it CE
Definite bombshell though

https://theconservativetreehouse.com...p/#more-143290
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Old 11th December 2017, 05:31 PM   #3280
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
The plot thickens. Whoosh goes the boomerang.
Then you'd better duck.
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