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Tags donald trump , lying charges , Russia conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old 14th December 2017, 09:04 AM   #3361
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Another good read.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com...t/#more-143362
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Old 14th December 2017, 09:04 AM   #3362
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

You don’t even understand these investigations are supposed to be unbiased, it’s why they’re doing the investigation because our government doesn’t trust itself to do an impartial investigation. You don’t even know how this works
What do you mean by unbiased and impartial? You need a definition and a standard.

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Old 14th December 2017, 09:06 AM   #3363
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

You don’t even understand these investigations are supposed to be unbiased, it’s why they’re doing the investigation because our government doesn’t trust itself to do an impartial investigation. You don’t even know how this works
You are wrong again.

If you can show that the investigation is biased, then kindly do so. However, you have continually failed to do anything of the sort.
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Old 14th December 2017, 09:10 AM   #3364
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The investigation is so biased that Meuller dismissed one of his team because the guy said some bad things about Trump....
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Old 14th December 2017, 09:12 AM   #3365
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

You don’t even understand these investigations are supposed to be unbiased, it’s why they’re doing the investigation because our government doesn’t trust itself to do an impartial investigation. You don’t even know how this works
Even though the reactions are overblown, you do highlight a legitimate problem.

We want the investigators to have their heads screwed on straight, yes? If everyone with a negative view of Trump were filtered out, we're left with a fantastically sketchy pool of dimwits and water carriers.
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Old 14th December 2017, 09:13 AM   #3366
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
you do highlight a legitimate problem.
Maybe Crossbow will understand now?
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Old 14th December 2017, 09:15 AM   #3367
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
What do you mean by unbiased and impartial? You need a definition and a standard.
Lol

Let’s have the IG explain it to you when the investigation is complete?
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Old 14th December 2017, 09:16 AM   #3368
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

Let’s have the IG explain it to you when the investigation is complete?
I want your definition.
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Old 14th December 2017, 09:25 AM   #3369
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
The investigation is so biased that Meuller dismissed one of his team because the guy said some bad things about Trump....
This is my main takeaway. While it's true that there are questions to be answered (it appears there may be evidence of bias in both directions, albeit much more evidence towards an anti-Clinton bias, and both need to be investigated thoroughly), one thing that is clear and agreed upon by news outlets from both sides of the political spectrum is that when it was brought to his attention that one of his agents in the investigation may be compromised Mueller had him removed. This speaks to Mueller's credibility.

When it was brought to Trump's attention that Flynn had been compromised by Russia, Trump kept Flynn on and fired the person who brought it to his attention. This speaks to Trump's credibility.
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Old 14th December 2017, 09:25 AM   #3370
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

You don’t even understand these investigations are supposed to be unbiased, it’s why they’re doing the investigation because our government doesn’t trust itself to do an impartial investigation. You don’t even know how this works
Yes, I do know how this works, or at least how worked before fascists took control: After the election, both Republicans and Democrats called for investigations into how the FBI had conducted the Clinton email investigation, a job that falls to the DoJ's Inspector General. That's been done, and not a single case of not following procedures was found. Not a single case of bias causing any improper of unethical behavior was found.

TrumpCo is actively trying to destroy the underpinnings of our democracy, and Republicans are going along because they know that if they don't help him save his sorry ass, it will be the end of their grip on power, too. Scumbag traitors, the lot of them. How successful they will be over the next year remains to be seen, but the solution to the real problem is obvious: To save our democracy, the current version of the Republican Party must die. This is way beyond partisan bickering now.
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Old 14th December 2017, 09:28 AM   #3371
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What does an unbiased investigation even mean?
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Old 14th December 2017, 09:34 AM   #3372
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There's a difference between conducting an unbiased investigation, and an investigation being conducted by unbiased people.

I would think that the latter are going to be almost impossible to find with respect to the President, and furthermore, anyone unbiased is unlikely to be in a position to conduct an investigation of any quality.

However, people with a bias are quite capable of acting in an unbiased way, and conducting a high quality, unbiased investigation.
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Old 14th December 2017, 09:34 AM   #3373
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Abramson's been compiling a list of everything we know (publicly) about the Trump-Russia connection. Mueller almost certainly has a lot more.

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/sta...20497823215616
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Old 14th December 2017, 09:35 AM   #3374
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
You mean this one?
https://oig.justice.gov/press/2017/2017-01-12.pdf

Are you ever interested in the facts instead of accusing me?

The leftist news sources that inform you won’t post anything like this, they go out of their way to deceive people.
I don't know why I bother, but ...

https://oig.justice.gov/press/2017/2017-01-12.pdf
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
January 12, 2017
DOJ OIG Announces Initiation of Review


Oh, and look:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/12/u...y-clinton.html
Comey Letter on Clinton Email Is Subject of Justice Dept. Inquiry
By ADAM GOLDMAN, ERIC LICHTBLAU and MATT APUZZOJAN. 12, 2017
WASHINGTON — The Justice Department’s inspector general said Thursday that he would open a broad investigation
into how the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, handled the case over Hillary Clinton’s emails, including his decision to discuss it at a news conference and to disclose 11 days before the election that he had new information that could lead him to reopen it.


But yeah, your claim that "The leftist news sources that inform you won’t post anything like this" is really spot on ....
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Old 14th December 2017, 09:36 AM   #3375
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Maybe Crossbow will understand now?
You are wrong again.

You have failed to you actually understand what 'varwoche' had to say about your issue.
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Old 14th December 2017, 09:37 AM   #3376
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
However, people with a bias are quite capable of acting in an unbiased way, and conducting a high quality, unbiased investigation.
I think there have been enough experiments into cognition that this is probably untrue. It is probably more realistic that we can cobble together a semi workable solution.
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Old 14th December 2017, 09:42 AM   #3377
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I think there have been enough experiments into cognition that this is probably untrue. It is probably more realistic that we can cobble together a semi workable solution.
I imagine there are a great many people in the FBI whose bias is secondary to their need for a paycheck.
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Old 14th December 2017, 09:53 AM   #3378
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Since everyone is human, then everyone has some amount of bias about everything.

Accordingly, the question is not if certain investigators have anti-Trump bias, because there are some who do, In fact, due to the recent anti-FBI comments that have been made by that stupid, idiotic, greedy, liar Trump, I am sure that there are more than a few FBI agents who hate Trump. But what 'logger' has consistently failed to understand is that just because some investigators may have anti-Trump feelings, that does not automatically mean that these investigators will produce an anti-Trump investigation.

Therefore, unless 'logger', or someone else, can show that the personal feelings of the investigators are producing a flawed investigation, then I will continue to have faith in that investigation.
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Old 14th December 2017, 10:00 AM   #3379
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Since everyone is human, then everyone has some amount of bias about everything.

Accordingly, the question is not if certain investigators have anti-Trump bias, because there are some who do, In fact, due to the recent anti-FBI comments that have been made by that stupid, idiotic, greedy, liar Trump, I am sure that there are more than a few FBI agents who hate Trump. But what 'logger' has consistently failed to understand is that just because some investigators may have anti-Trump feelings, that does not automatically mean that these investigators will produce an anti-Trump investigation.

Therefore, unless 'logger', or someone else, can show that the personal feelings of the investigators are producing a flawed investigation, then I will continue to have faith in that investigation.
There have been court rulings even against the appearance of corruption for having a corrosive effect. But I don't think you can stop people from seeing appearance if they don't choose to.
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Old 14th December 2017, 11:42 AM   #3380
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
The investigation is so biased that Meuller dismissed one of his team because the guy said some bad things about Trump....

The Mueller investigation is dead. It saved face with those process crimes and that money laundering thing all having nothing to do with the conspiracy they were supposed to expose. Instead they discovered that they were infiltrated by people instrumental in conspiring to hoax the supposed conspiracy in the first place. Reason? Meddle in the election. The picture is pretty complete now and you seem to totally miss it because you tell yourself that it just exists on websites with names like "conservativetreehouse". But you're wrong. Read this, it's a quite succinct summary of the latest developments (Strzok is the guy who was fired from the Mueller investigation, in your belief for "saying bad things about Trump"):

Fake News, Sedition and Public Apathy
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Old 14th December 2017, 11:47 AM   #3381
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
The Mueller investigation is dead.
The Mueller investigation is heading toward a conclusion that won't actually surprise anyone, least of all Russian propagandists. If Trump manages to stop it, that will trigger an even more immediate result. People who think the Republican opportunists in Congress will stand by Trump when the going gets tough are dreaming.
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Old 14th December 2017, 11:54 AM   #3382
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
The Mueller investigation is dead. It saved face with those process crimes and that money laundering thing all having nothing to do with the conspiracy they were supposed to expose. Instead they discovered that they were infiltrated by people instrumental in conspiring to hoax the supposed conspiracy in the first place. Reason? Meddle in the election. The picture is pretty complete now and you seem to totally miss it because you tell yourself that it just exists on websites with names like "conservativetreehouse". But you're wrong. Read this, it's a quite succinct summary of the latest developments (Strzok is the guy who was fired from the Mueller investigation, in your belief for "saying bad things about Trump"):

Fake News, Sedition and Public Apathy
You have no proof that his feelings affected the investigation.
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Old 14th December 2017, 11:54 AM   #3383
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
The Mueller investigation is dead. It saved face with those process crimes and that money laundering thing all having nothing to do with the conspiracy they were supposed to expose. Instead they discovered that they were infiltrated by people instrumental in conspiring to hoax the supposed conspiracy in the first place. Reason? Meddle in the election. The picture is pretty complete now and you seem to totally miss it because you tell yourself that it just exists on websites with names like "conservativetreehouse". But you're wrong. Read this, it's a quite succinct summary of the latest developments (Strzok is the guy who was fired from the Mueller investigation, in your belief for "saying bad things about Trump"):

Fake News, Sedition and Public Apathy
Do you have any real sources to support your conclusion?
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Old 14th December 2017, 11:57 AM   #3384
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
The Mueller investigation is dead. It saved face with those process crimes and that money laundering thing all having nothing to do with the conspiracy they were supposed to expose. Instead they discovered that they were infiltrated by people instrumental in conspiring to hoax the supposed conspiracy in the first place. Reason? Meddle in the election. The picture is pretty complete now and you seem to totally miss it because you tell yourself that it just exists on websites with names like "conservativetreehouse". But you're wrong. Read this, it's a quite succinct summary of the latest developments (Strzok is the guy who was fired from the Mueller investigation, in your belief for "saying bad things about Trump"):

Fake News, Sedition and Public Apathy

The article is you linked is nothing but ridiculous CT level musings.

Here is a nice fact-free paragraph as an example:

Strzok, unlike Gump, was not a passive observer. He was an active participant with the authority and the power to set the course of investigations into both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. In the case of Strzok we now know that Lady Justice in Strzok world is not blind. That's why we get the bizarre decision to grant Clinton aides, Abedin and Mills, immunity in testimony without pre-condition. That's why Hillary gets the kid glove treatment from Strzok and his team despite clear evidence that she had mishandled Top Secret material, including Special Access Program (aka SAP) intelligence. And that is why Strzok played a key role in pushing the sordid, politically suspect Trump dossier as sound intel to justify domestic spying on Donald Trump and his team. All done in the name of saving America.



I can't help but continue to laugh at the "logic" of the argument that since the media has not published Muellers evidence, he therefor has none.

Sure, stick a fork in Mueller, he's done.
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Old 14th December 2017, 12:03 PM   #3385
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Abramson's second thread detailing what evidence is currently publicly known about ties between the Trump campaign/administration and Putin: https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/sta...76110381731841
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Old 14th December 2017, 12:03 PM   #3386
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
You have no proof that his feelings affected the investigation.
CE is a big fan of governments where that isn't necessary. Putin knows how to deal with pesky investigators.
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Old 14th December 2017, 12:17 PM   #3387
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Do you have any real sources to support your conclusion?

Maybe I should claim that you'll find nothing about these things in the NYT or the WaPo and let TheL8Elvis do the job?
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Old 14th December 2017, 12:34 PM   #3388
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Maybe I should claim that you'll find nothing about these things in the NYT or the WaPo and let TheL8Elvis do the job?
I read the Washington Post every day and there is nothing in there about the Muller investigation being dead. I used to read the NY Times as well, but I no longer do so.

In any case, if you want people to take your postings seriously, then do yourself a favor and provide decent sources to support your postings.
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Old 14th December 2017, 12:42 PM   #3389
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Since everyone is human, then everyone has some amount of bias about everything.

Accordingly, the question is not if certain investigators have anti-Trump bias, because there are some who do, In fact, due to the recent anti-FBI comments that have been made by that stupid, idiotic, greedy, liar Trump, I am sure that there are more than a few FBI agents who hate Trump. But what 'logger' has consistently failed to understand is that just because some investigators may have anti-Trump feelings, that does not automatically mean that these investigators will produce an anti-Trump investigation.

Therefore, unless 'logger', or someone else, can show that the personal feelings of the investigators are producing a flawed investigation, then I will continue to have faith in that investigation.
There's also some partisan cherry picking in the texts they've chosen to highlight.

Quote:
The FBI agent removed from the special counsel investigation into Russian meddling in the U.S. presidential election lambasted then-presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and former Attorney General Eric Holder in texts to an FBI lawyer, as well as his previously reported negative remarks about President Trump.

Found in the 375 text messages given to Congress by the Justice Department, senior counterintelligence agent Peter Strzok reportedly called supporters of Sanders "idiots," as reported Thursday by Wall Street Journal.

Strzok and attorney Lisa Page also panned Holder, who would have once been their boss at the Justice Department.

During Holder's speech at the Democratic National Convention, Strzok texted, “Oh God, Holder! Turn it off turn if off!!!"
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Old 14th December 2017, 01:20 PM   #3390
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
What does an unbiased investigation even mean?
For every piece of evidence you find, you must find an equal but opposite piece of evidence.
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Old 14th December 2017, 02:04 PM   #3391
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Plus the pinning of the dossier's existence on Hillary. Republican primary candidates funded the creation, Hillary paid for a product that was already on the market.
You posted this before, and I asked you about it in post 3130 but you never responded.

It has been widely reported that it was the Washington Free Beacon (not GOP primary candidates) funded Fusion GPS up until the spring in 2016. Christopher Steele was not brought in until June, 2016, two months after Perkins Coie retained them to continue the research.

How could the dossier be "already on the market"? What am I missing?
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Old 14th December 2017, 03:19 PM   #3392
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
FWIW, Seth Abramson has published one of what he says will be two twitter threads concisely detailing what is publicly known about Trump-Russia ties: https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/sta...20497823215616
Quote:
#16: Trump advisors Bannon, Prince, Flynn, Don Jr., Giuliani and Pirro are involved—to varying degrees—in leaking, sourcing, disseminating, and legitimizing a false "True Pundit" story that seeks to use fraud to blackmail the FBI into indicting Clinton. Russian bots pump it also.
Can anyone explain that one further? Blackmail the FBI? Who at the FBI? The whole agency?
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Old 14th December 2017, 03:38 PM   #3393
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No one seems to be considering that Strzok might just hate Trump partially because of the evidence he was seeing about Trump in the investigation.
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Old 14th December 2017, 03:49 PM   #3394
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Can anyone explain that one further? Blackmail the FBI? Who at the FBI? The whole agency?
"Thomas Paine," the founder of True Pundit claimed that the NYPD had found evidence of all sorts of crime in the emails on Weiner's computer, and declared that if Comey wasn't fired, he was going to publish all the details right before the election. Giuliani, Bannon, et al, pushed this story, as did Russian bots. This put pressure on Comey to make the public acknowledgement that the emails were being examined; otherwise, even if the claim that NYPD found criminal evidence turned out to be BS -- which it was -- Comey would look like he was protecting Clinton.
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Old 14th December 2017, 04:01 PM   #3395
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
"Thomas Paine," the founder of True Pundit claimed that the NYPD had found evidence of all sorts of crime in the emails on Weiner's computer, and declared that if Comey wasn't fired, he was going to publish all the details right before the election. Giuliani, Bannon, et al, pushed this story, as did Russian bots. This put pressure on Comey to make the public acknowledgement that the emails were being examined; otherwise, even if the claim that NYPD found criminal evidence turned out to be BS -- which it was -- Comey would look like he was protecting Clinton.
I heard that NYC office FBI agents (not the NYPD) would leak the email story because some of them were anti Clinton.

What is the Occam's razor explanation for all these anti Trump and anti Clinton FBI stories? I think it is simply these were the most disliked presidential candidates and a bunch of people in this country really really disliked one or the other.
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Old 14th December 2017, 04:12 PM   #3396
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I heard that NYC office FBI agents (not the NYPD) would leak the email story because some of them were anti Clinton.
Yes, there is the rumor that NY FBI agents were threatening to leak about the email investigation, but the True Pundit claimed that the NYPD (which initially confiscated Weiner's computer) had found evidence of crimes that the FBI was trying to cover up and they were going to "blow the whistle" on the FBI.
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Old 14th December 2017, 04:20 PM   #3397
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I heard that NYC office FBI agents (not the NYPD) would leak the email story because some of them were anti Clinton
Giuliani bragged about the leaks he received from the FBI.

Quote:
Giuliani has bragged about his close ties to the FBI for months, mentioning in interviews that “outraged FBI agents” have told him they’re frustrated by how the Clinton investigation was handled. And two days before FBI Director James Comey announced that the agency was reviewing the newly uncovered emails, Giuliani teased that Trump’s campaign had “a couple of surprises left.”

“You’ll see, and I think it will be enormously effective,” he said in an interview with Fox News.
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Old 14th December 2017, 04:25 PM   #3398
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Thanks, I am aware of that story, didn't know some of those details though.
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Old 14th December 2017, 04:49 PM   #3399
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Thanks, I am aware of that story, didn't know some of those details though.
There were plenty of leaks about how many place in the FBI and especially New York field office were Trumpland.
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Old 14th December 2017, 04:58 PM   #3400
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
However, people with a bias are quite capable of acting in an unbiased way, and conducting a high quality, unbiased investigation.
This, of course, is why we have procedures, which seriously limit the effect of individual bias.
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