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Old 13th July 2019, 05:31 PM   #41
Thor 2
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Yep, I agree that's the case.

They felt that liberalisation would draw new members, and the opposite happened.

Theists like an omnipotent god with the threat of hell for all the disgusting atheists. (and muslims)

Maybe we can assume then that the successful religions use the carrot and the stick method of keeping bums on pews. Stray from this tried and true path at your peril, all those who would.
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Old 14th July 2019, 04:37 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Maybe we can assume then that the successful religions use the carrot and the stick method of keeping bums on pews. Stray from this tried and true path at your peril, all those who would.

People can (and do) assume many things, but I think among skeptics it would be wiser to stick to beliefs which are supported by the evidence, and that one isn't. I provided two fairly clear examples where that assumption doesn't hold. Quakerism has been around for going on 4 centuries, is not in danger of collapsing, and does not use the carrot and stick method to attract or hold its membership. Unitarian Universalism is more recent but it has been around since the 1960s, is not in danger of collapsing, and does not use the carrot and stick method to attract or hold its membership.

So while the carrot and stick method has historically been a successful method for many religions (and other groups) for maintaining their membership, it's clearly not a necessary one.

(Nor is it a sufficient one. Many religions which have used the carrot and stick approach have died out, never to be resurrected, and that seems likely to continue happening.)
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Old 14th July 2019, 03:15 PM   #43
Thor 2
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Yes I have to concede that a compelling and obvious enticement, is not dangled in front of the noses, of those seen as potential Quakers and Unitarian Universalismists, although a vague promise of increased spiritualism maybe. Non the less the very low numbers of attendance, seem to speak for themselves in assessing the success of these. 200,000 plus only for Quakers although they've been around for going on 400 years as you say.

There is a certain vagueness about the Unitarian guys, who claim they have agnostics and atheists in their numbers. Is this a religion then I ask? I would think some kind of supernatural entity is necessary, to attach this label.
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