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Old 11th July 2019, 10:17 PM   #81
Lambchops
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Irony alert
Research has been done on this. And in every single country that has been done, the data shows that cops are much more likely to be domestic abusers than any other profession (career military personell are up there as well, not surprisingly).

But hey, keep pretending you are a "skeptic" while ignoring the actual facts. I'm sure that's going to work out just great for you.
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Old 11th July 2019, 10:23 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Research has been done on this. And in every single country that has been done, the data shows that cops are much more likely to be domestic abusers than any other profession (career military personell are up there as well, not surprisingly).
[citation required]
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Old 11th July 2019, 10:24 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Research has been done on this. And in every single country that has been done, the data shows that cops are much more likely to be domestic abusers than any other profession (career military personell are up there as well, not surprisingly).

But hey, keep pretending you are a "skeptic" while ignoring the actual facts. I'm sure that's going to work out just great for you.
That is fantastic and I am waiting patiently and eager for your links to these studies.

It does however have zero relevance to what Hansen witnessed as a cop sorting out domestic violence most nights.

BTW

When you post your links to these studies, can you highlight his name as you claim he is one of them, as I don't want to have to trawl through the whole list.
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Old 11th July 2019, 11:06 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
[citation required]
Be a skeptic. Use the internet. Google ****.

(And yes, I know all about the "burden of proof" thing, but I don't really care. If you don't already know about these studies, you must have been living under a rock)
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Old 11th July 2019, 11:08 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Be a skeptic.
That is exactly what is happening, you are being asked to provide evidence and not just make a claim without supporting evidence, i.e. Skeptism.

Quote:
Use the internet. Google ****.

(And yes, I know all about the "burden of proof" thing, but I don't really care. If you don't already know about these studies, you must have been living under a rock)
I did Google and come up with nothing, I even looked at the NZ Government crime statistics and noted that they don't record occupations. I also looked for papers on Google scholar.

Feel free to show me what I was doing wrong in my searches.
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Old 11th July 2019, 11:08 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
That is fantastic and I am waiting patiently and eager for your links to these studies.

It does however have zero relevance to what Hansen witnessed as a cop sorting out domestic violence most nights.

BTW

When you post your links to these studies, can you highlight his name as you claim he is one of them, as I don't want to have to trawl through the whole list.
Lol, see above, old man.
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Old 11th July 2019, 11:10 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I did Google and come up with nothing, I even looked at the NZ Government crime statistics and noted that they don't record occupations. I also looked for papers on Google scholar.

Feel free to show me what I was doing wrong in my searches.
You used to be a cop, right?
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Old 11th July 2019, 11:13 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
You used to be a cop, right?
I see you are still batting zero.

Now instead of trying, and failing, to poison the well, how about you provide evidence of your claim. Otherwise as Skeptics the correct course of action is to dismiss without evidence the claims made without evidence.
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Old 11th July 2019, 11:17 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Lol, see above, old man.
Double obscure

Not sure how i suddenly became old, or what you mean by above
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Old 11th July 2019, 11:21 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Be a skeptic. Use the internet. Google ****.

(And yes, I know all about the "burden of proof" thing, but I don't really care. If you don't already know about these studies, you must have been living under a rock)
Ah this is above

Great

Good luck with that

Everyone knows studies shows stats say all posters named Lambchops are actually posting from prison

This is well known

Google it
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Old 12th July 2019, 12:50 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I see you are still batting zero.

Now instead of trying, and failing, to poison the well, how about you provide evidence of your claim. Otherwise as Skeptics the correct course of action is to dismiss without evidence the claims made without evidence.
Let's start with this.

http://womenandpolicing.com/violenceFS.asp#notes
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Old 12th July 2019, 12:53 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post

Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
I suppose this Steve Hansen guy is an expert on domestic violence, right?

Oh, wait. He's an ex-cop, so that does make him an expert. An expert on harassing lower class people and minorities, and on the finer details of gas station food.
Lambchops

This is not America. Overall, our Police are pretty good, and very well respected by the general public. Also keep in mind, that unlike America, where they have State Police and City Police whose standard of training is, to say the least, poor (if you can point a gun and drive a car, you can be a cop) our Police have to graduate from a National Police College. All our Police are "Federal", that is, we have one Police force for the whole country, so no local jurisdictions - the whole country is one jurisdiction. Also, our Police do not carry sidearms. Incident Cars (I-Cars) carry a firearm (usually a Bushmaster XM15 M4A3 Patrolman Carbine), but that is kept in a locked cabinet in the trunk, and their use has to be authorised by a senior officer before the seal can be broken

We also do not have elected LEOs like Sherriffs and Sherriff's Deputies. All Area Commanders and Assistant Commanders are appointed by the National Police Commissioner (and have to be approved by the Minister of Police), and they are all directly responsible to the NPC. That isn't to say that we haven't had the occasional bad apple slip through the system, but they are very few and far between. Police corruption is almost non-existent in this country.
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Old 12th July 2019, 01:00 AM   #93
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Oh, hello.

http://theconversation.com/police-pe...-be-done-49441
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Old 12th July 2019, 01:05 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Oh, wait. He's an ex-cop, so that does make him an expert. An expert on harassing lower class people and minorities, and on the finer details of gas station food.
What utter tosh. As Cooky said, we're not talking about American police. While far from perfect (and I'd be the last to defend them) Kiwi cops have standards to adhere to, fitness tests to pass, and are independently reviewed.

Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Hello? Hello?

You posted two links. One is about Chicago, so has no relevance to NZ, while the other is Australian, which might be kinda relevant, except:
Quote:
The extent of police-perpetrated domestic violence is difficult to quantify. There have been no published studies about how many Australian police commit domestic violence.
Try again, Master/Mistress Skeptic.
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Old 12th July 2019, 01:14 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Lambchops

This is not America. Overall, our Police are pretty good, and pretty well respected. Also keep in mind, that unlike America, where they have State Police whose standard of training is, to say the least, poor (if you can point a gun and drive a car, you can be a cop) out Police have to graduate from a National Police College. All our Police are "Federal", that is, we have one Police force for the whole country.
We pretty much have a system such as you have here in Norway. Is it objectively better than the system in the US? Not so sure.

There is often a certain type of individual that is drawn towards police work. An individual that wants authority and power. An individual that does not have the ability to see beyond what is written in the law.

"I was only following orders"

And even in a country as progressive as Norway, there is a "thin blue line", cops will cover for cops because there is an inherent "us vs them" mentality with these people.

I'll never trust a cop farther than I can throw them.
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Old 12th July 2019, 01:16 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
What utter tosh. As Cooky said, we're not talking about American police. While far from perfect (and I'd be the last to defend them) Kiwi cops have standards to adhere to, fitness tests to pass, and are independently reviewed.



Hello? Hello?

You posted two links. One is about Chicago, so has no relevance to NZ, while the other is Australian, which might be kinda relevant, except:

Try again, Master/Mistress Skeptic.
Why are you people so willing to bow down to authority? Does not seem very skeptical to me.

Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
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Old 12th July 2019, 01:29 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Why are you people so willing to bow down to authority? Does not seem very skeptical to me.

Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
Lol

Sorry..Shouldn't laugh, but lol
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Old 12th July 2019, 01:35 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
And even in a country as progressive as Norway, there is a "thin blue line", cops will cover for cops because there is an inherent "us vs them" mentality with these people.

I'll never trust a cop farther than I can throw them.
Well, it ain't like that in this country, and since we ARE on the subject of something that happened in this country, I'd rather you didn't bring your animosity toward the Norwegian Police into it because it isn't relevant.

Also, I think it is completely unreasonable of you to accuse Steve Hansen of harassing people, when in all probability, you know nothing about him other that what you have read in this thread. You had probably never heard of him before all this blew up.

I come to his defence because I have met him on many occasions, both in an official capacity when he was a copper in Christchurch back in the late 1980s, and in a personal capacity when I was a rugby referee and he was playing for the Marist Rugby Club. Steve is a very likeable character, an all round good bloke, and not at all the person you are implying he is.
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Old 12th July 2019, 05:38 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Using a high heel to attack someone would be considered either an aggravated assault or an assault with a deadly weapon.
It can be, if the police choose to pursue the case, which is rare unless really serious injury is caused. Even though door supervision is regulated in the UK, and there is often CCTV, they take the view that if they charge the assailants, they in turn will demand charges against the bouncers (this happened to Mrs Analyst at least once).

Metro: Woman jailed for unprovoked stiletto attack on stranger in nightclub

The Sun: Shocking swollen eye injuries of woman attacked with a STILETTO heel in nightclub by pizza delivery worker – as she avoids jail

The Scotsman: Doorman lost eye in stiletto heel attack

BBC News: Woman cleared of stiletto heel attack on boyfriend

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Old 12th July 2019, 05:42 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
It can be, if the police choose to pursue the case, which is rare unless really serious injury is caused. Even though door supervision is regulated in the UK, and there is often CCTV, they take the view that if they charge the assailants, they in turn will demand charges against the bouncers (this happened to Mrs Analyst at least once).

Metro: Woman jailed for unprovoked stiletto attack on stranger in nightclub

The Sun: Shocking swollen eye injuries of woman attacked with a STILETTO heel in nightclub by pizza delivery worker – as she avoids jail

The Scotsman: Doorman lost eye in stiletto heel attack

BBC News: Woman cleared of stiletto heel attack on boyfriend
Might be wrong, but we haven't had the stiletto thing yet (may have missed it)

Can see how it could be ugly on the old eyes, forehead or temple though tbf
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Old 12th July 2019, 07:19 AM   #101
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I still don't understand what some alleged trends for police officers has to do with an individual police officer's opinion?

If the literature shows domestic violence is reciprocal, and the people literally on-the-ground responding to domestic violence say the same, why should we doubt those responding?

edit: and I know people don't like this but it always comes across as diminishing a problem, to me, when people say "women have it worse" with this.

Ya, if we're talking pure unarmed combat, with no social pressures to hold back ("don't hit girls", "don't fight back or YOU will be arrested", etc) then women obviously "have it worse", even in reciprocal violence.

But that isn't the reality we're dealing with. I will grant of course that at the extremes that "women have it worse" being they are more likely to die from domestic violence, and probably the most serious of injuries (I don't recall the stats on this, but seems likely).

But should we base our policies and empathy on the most extreme cases?

Domestic violence is intergenerational, reciprocal and is best addressed by not minimizing group X's victim/perpetrator status

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Old 12th July 2019, 04:43 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Why are you people so willing to bow down to authority? Does not seem very skeptical to me.

Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
This is one of the most laughably wrong posts I've ever seen.

I've been arrested for protesting and have zero regard for police, but I'm not about to accuse even them of domestic violence in light of no evidence. NZ cops had a sweeping official investigation a couple of years ago, which uncovered sexist attitudes and assaults, but nothing on domestic violence.

I'm always going to believe an independent inquiry rather than a statement without evidence.

Regarding trans issues, I spent 12 months developing a highly successful positive discrimination job system that is still in place with several large corporates, aimed at employing trans people who struggle to find jobs.

But I'm transphobic...

I can see why you don't want to engage - that would require you to actually read what people have written, and provide evidence for your inane assertions.
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Old 12th July 2019, 07:02 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
This is one of the most laughably wrong posts I've ever seen.

I've been arrested for protesting and have zero regard for police, but I'm not about to accuse even them of domestic violence in light of no evidence. NZ cops had a sweeping official investigation a couple of years ago, which uncovered sexist attitudes and assaults, but nothing on domestic violence.

I'm always going to believe an independent inquiry rather than a statement without evidence.

Regarding trans issues, I spent 12 months developing a highly successful positive discrimination job system that is still in place with several large corporates, aimed at employing trans people who struggle to find jobs.

But I'm transphobic...

I can see why you don't want to engage - that would require you to actually read what people have written, and provide evidence for your inane assertions.

Quoted for beauty
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Old 15th July 2019, 05:05 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by pharphis View Post
I will grant of course that at the extremes that "women have it worse" being they are more likely to die from domestic violence, and probably the most serious of injuries (I don't recall the stats on this, but seems likely).
In England and Wales the number of women killed by partners or ex-partners is generally six times that of men killed by partners or ex-partners. This is what often drives the reporting narrative of domestic violence. Nobody is interested that the reverse is true when it comes to deaths at the hands of friends, acquaintances, or strangers, nor indeed that male homicide victims outnumber females ones by more than two to one overall.
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Old 18th July 2019, 10:05 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Nobody is interested that the reverse is true when it comes to deaths at the hands of friends, acquaintances, or strangers
These people are still more likely to be killed by a male.

Quote:
nor indeed that male homicide victims outnumber females ones by more than two to one overall.
As are these ones.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 05:27 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
These people are still more likely to be killed by a male.
So?

Quote:
As are these ones.
So?
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Old 22nd July 2019, 06:29 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
So?
The original premise was that men are likely to do more damage when they are violent, and so are more likely to kill than women are. All you did was provide more evidence of it.
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Old 23rd July 2019, 01:36 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
So?



So?

Rule of So and So!
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This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
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Old 23rd July 2019, 01:41 AM   #109
Information Analyst
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
The original premise was that men are likely to do more damage when they are violent, and so are more likely to kill than women are. All you did was provide more evidence of it.
No, I provided evidence to back up the point that society wrings its hands at the small number of women killed by partners or ex-partners, but doesn't bat an eyelid at the far greater number of men killed by friends and acquaintances, strangers, or overall.
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Old 24th July 2019, 02:01 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
No, I provided evidence to back up the point that society wrings its hands at the small number of women killed by partners or ex-partners, but doesn't bat an eyelid at the far greater number of men killed by friends and acquaintances, strangers, or overall.
It also doesn't bat an eyelid at kids being kept in cages, people being executed for being framed or wrongly convicted, civilians being killed indiscriminately by drones piloted by a coward in a concrete bunker 10,000 km away, and it doesn't even notice - far less bat anything - millions of people facing starvation, or the fact that the highest number of refugees in human history is right now.

In fact, it's a wonder humans destroying our own habitat makes the news at all.

Kim Kardashian might be about to waggle her arse!
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