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Old 29th June 2019, 01:07 PM   #1
Checkmite
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Walking around with your IV stand while black

Man wrongfully accused of trying to steal his IV stand still charged with disorderly conduct for objecting

Quote:
Dukes, 24, who has lived in Freeport for about a month, said he had been in the hospital for two days with pneumonia when his doctor cleared him to go for a walk outside, as long as he didn’t leave hospital property. Dukes, his brother and another person went for a walk just after 4 p.m. on June 9, but were stopped in the parking lot on their way back into the hospital, Dukes said.

The security officer, who has not been named, demanded that Dukes and his companions walk over to his vehicle parked on the side of the street. The security guard, employed by FHN, then accused Dukes of attempting to steal the hospital equipment, according to Dukes.

“He had gotten out of his vehicle and said, ‘What are you going to do, steal that and sell it on eBay?’” Dukes said. “I told him, ‘This machine is pumping fluid into my veins as we speak.’”

After some banter back and forth, the security officer radioed Freeport police, who were dispatched to the hospital around 4:40 p.m. Dukes said his brother was arrested soon after police arrived and he was arrested a few minutes later. A third man, who recorded the arrests on video, was arrested later.

Dukes said he was told by police that he was under arrest for attempted theft, since he was off hospital property with the medical equipment. He contends that he only left hospital property to make his way to the security officer’s vehicle when ordered to do so.

On Monday, police said Dukes, his brother and the other individual were arrested only because of their conduct toward the security officer and the police officers once they arrived. Dukes was ultimately charged with disorderly conduct, after an investigation revealed he had no intention of stealing the IV stand, said Freeport police Lt. Andrew Schroeder. Police have not been able to confirm whether Dukes had permission to walk outside of the hospital.

“The issue here is that his actions were why he was arrested,” Schroeder said. “Had they been able to engage in a civil discourse with hospital security, we wouldn’t have been called at all.”

“As far as the video goes, all you are seeing is a snippet of a longer incident. I think people need to be careful about rushing to judgment against the police without all the information.”
After arresting him police had a paramedic remove Dukes' IV and confiscated his rescue inhaler and began to transport him to jail, but had to return him to the hospital when he began having an asthma attack in the back of the police cruiser.

Welcome to black America, where police can accuse you of something absurd on its face, and then later fully acknowledge you didn't do it but still charge you anyway for complaining too strongly about the interaction, arrest your brother for agreeing with you, and arrest some random bystander for getting it all on video.
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Old 29th June 2019, 01:54 PM   #2
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I like the little detail that they charged him with being off hospital property after forcing him off hospital property. A nice little catch.

By the way, not entirely obvious from the article, and since there are many Freeports in the world, this incident occurred in Illinois.
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Old 29th June 2019, 02:32 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I like the little detail that they charged him with being off hospital property after forcing him off hospital property. A nice little catch.
Clearing an issue with my driver's license a few years back, I sat waiting for my turn while a man tried to defend himself from a charge of "littering."

An officer saw him crossing a field with a 12-pack of beer and called him over. Rather than haul the 12-pack half way back across the field and then start through it again, he set it down. After talking with the officer about where he was coming from and going to, the officer cited him for littering.

This man was not charged with any other offense during the interaction.

This man had a prior DUI.

So a guy with a prior DUI is walking to the store and back to get some beer and they punished him for it.

ETA: The right outcome would have been for the officer to say "thank you for making the right decision for your own and others' safety, I'm glad to see we've got you on the right path, sir."

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Old 30th June 2019, 04:48 AM   #4
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As I said before, you have pretty nice police state there in USA.
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Old 30th June 2019, 10:50 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I like the little detail that they charged him with being off hospital property after forcing him off hospital property. A nice little catch.

By the way, not entirely obvious from the article, and since there are many Freeports in the world, this incident occurred in Illinois.
I read it as " doctor said you can walk around the hospital but not leave the property. Which is common with iv stands as they do trend to go missing and are quite expensive (hospital placement ftw.).

He left the property, and as is policy was charged with attempting to remove hospital property.

This is actually super common around here, though the people doing it are usually pale and shady. It sucks hospitals have to have this policy, but people made that so.

I'm curious as to where you got he was forced off the property. Could you give me the bit that made you think that?
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Old 30th June 2019, 10:53 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Clearing an issue with my driver's license a few years back, I sat waiting for my turn while a man tried to defend himself from a charge of "littering."

An officer saw him crossing a field with a 12-pack of beer and called him over. Rather than haul the 12-pack half way back across the field and then start through it again, he set it down. After talking with the officer about where he was coming from and going to, the officer cited him for littering.

This man was not charged with any other offense during the interaction.

This man had a prior DUI.

So a guy with a prior DUI is walking to the store and back to get some beer and they punished him for it.

ETA: The right outcome would have been for the officer to say "thank you for making the right decision for your own and others' safety, I'm glad to see we've got you on the right path, sir."
Do you maybe think he could have been drinking, and the cop instead of charging him (if he had adui he may have even been under a no drinking order) for that gave him the littering fine as an alternative?

You seem to jump right to the cop being evil without much information.

(Que the poster suddenly knowing everything about the situation from second one to the end of court. )
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Old 30th June 2019, 10:57 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
...

I'm curious as to where you got he was forced off the property. Could you give me the bit that made you think that?
Quote:
demanded that Dukes and his companions walk over to his vehicle parked on the side of the street.
Why did the cop even get involved?

No doubt the arrest was for the usual 'contempt of cop'.

I hope the victim sues the cop for endangering his health.


This is appalling.
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Old 30th June 2019, 11:38 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Why did the cop even get involved?

No doubt the arrest was for the usual 'contempt of cop'.

I hope the victim sues the cop for endangering his health.


This is appalling.
It could be seen as more than just appalling, since the initial confrontation was with a hospital guard. IN other words, the hospital guard appears to have taken it into his hands to arrest a patient of the hospital on whose grounds he was patrolling, without, apparently, taking the trouble to check with the hospital that employed him, to determine the truth of the situation. I would have thought that a hospital security guard might be under some obligation to check with the hospital that employs him before taking drastic action against a patient there. There is a serious disconnect here.

It's possible in this scenario that the municipal cops were not fully aware of the bizarre stupidity of this situation, as we don't know what the security guard told them. One can only surmise, but we know at the very least that if the security guard asserted that the patient was off hospital grounds he was lying, and given his clearly officious and confrontational attitude, we cannot be sure what else he may have claimed. Of course I also think that a person in front of a hospital, with an IV connected and running, ought to suggest even to those cops that they need to ascertain what's going on before pulling it out and trucking him off to the station.

One of the things that I never quite understand is why the cops seem to have been in such a hurry. I don't think the patient would have gone very far away if they took the time to send someone into the hospital to check his story. But at the very least, I think the security guard ought to be looking for another position.

And the police should be in big big trouble for arresting a bystander who filmed them. Ultimately, I think this action ought to be the real headliner here. Police who act to conceal evidence and arrest onlookers are the enemies of the society they claim to protect.
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Old 30th June 2019, 12:08 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
Do you maybe think he could have been drinking, and the cop instead of charging him (if he had adui he may have even been under a no drinking order) for that gave him the littering fine as an alternative?
No mention was made about any court-ordered sobriety.



Quote:
You seem to jump right to the cop being evil without much information.
I did no such thing.

But you just did.



Quote:
(Que the poster suddenly knowing everything about the situation from second one to the end of court. )
Uh, no.

Now, would you like to discuss my post in good faith or just continue spitballing hypotheticals while slandering my character?
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Old 30th June 2019, 05:59 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
I read it as " doctor said you can walk around the hospital but not leave the property. Which is common with iv stands as they do trend to go missing and are quite expensive (hospital placement ftw.).

He left the property, and as is policy was charged with attempting to remove hospital property.

This is actually super common around here, though the people doing it are usually pale and shady. It sucks hospitals have to have this policy, but people made that so.

I'm curious as to where you got he was forced off the property. Could you give me the bit that made you think that?
Perhaps where the guard said "come over here, to my location, which is off hospital property"?
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Old 30th June 2019, 06:05 PM   #11
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I wonder what would have happened if Dukes had refused to approach the security officer's vehicle as order?

Ranb
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Old 30th June 2019, 07:37 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I wonder what would have happened if Dukes had refused to approach the security officer's vehicle as order?

Ranb
How could the security officer charge him with failing to cooperate if he actually failed to cooperate? He'd have to charge him with causing mental anguish instead.
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Old 1st July 2019, 01:54 AM   #13
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Off all the stories of racism, this one is -in a strange way- actually impressive.

I mean, calling the cops on black people having a barbecue; Scummy. Unimaginative, but scummy.
But this one left me strangely speechless. I feel it deserves some sort of racist Razzie award. I can totally see Richard Spencer in a Tux as the host.
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Old 1st July 2019, 02:12 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
I'm curious as to where you got he was forced off the property. Could you give me the bit that made you think that?
Did you read the bolded portion of the OP?
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Old 1st July 2019, 07:07 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Did you read the bolded portion of the OP?
Honestly, I even bolded it when I posted it.
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Old 1st July 2019, 10:10 AM   #16
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I wanted to reply "it's in the part you didn't read, although that may not narrow it down very much."
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Old 1st July 2019, 11:54 AM   #17
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I keep visualizing a guy in a hospital gown with his butt hanging out.

Presumably he put on pants.
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Old 1st July 2019, 12:07 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I keep visualizing a guy in a hospital gown with his butt hanging out.

Presumably he put on pants.
they sometimes give you two gowns, so you can cover both front and rear

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Old 1st July 2019, 05:00 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I keep visualizing a guy in a hospital gown with his butt hanging out.

Presumably he put on pants.
Originally Posted by gregthehammer View Post
they sometimes give you two gowns, so you can cover both front and rear

I had a diaper.
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Old 1st July 2019, 05:19 PM   #20
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How clever to actually insert the iv in your veins when just trying to steal the entire apparatus! Great cover story, if a bit intense. But the security guard and cops must have thought that all minorities are drug abusers anyway so it must have been no big deal for him to do so.

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Old 1st July 2019, 06:54 PM   #21
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Perhaps the cops were investigating a new drug ring that sells ringer's lactate on the streets. All the kids are replacing their electrolytes, it's an epidemic.
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Old 1st July 2019, 09:02 PM   #22
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I honestly could of sworn I heard this story but that the patient was advised by security to walk off hospital property with his friend to smoke since they were not allowed to there. And then subsequently has the police called for leaving the property with the IV. Wonder if it was an initial story that was wrong before info came in or if there was something similar that happened somewhere else. Weird.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 01:12 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
How clever to actually insert the iv in your veins when just trying to steal the entire apparatus! Great cover story, if a bit intense. But the security guard and cops must have thought that all minorities are drug abusers anyway so it must have been no big deal for him to do so.
It's a perfect crime. Sure, you have to walk around in a hospital gown with a needle in your arm. But once you make it past security, you are in possession of a super-valuable plastic bag on a hook and a whopping FOUR high-tech swivel wheels. And BOOM, you're set for life!

I can totally see this as the plot for the next Oceans Eleven.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 10:42 AM   #24
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More details/claims.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/thi...WCv?ocid=ientp
Quote:
Dukes said he met with Freeport city officials and a representative from FHN Memorial Hospital within days of the incident, hopeful for a resolution.

He said he was caught off guard by the hospital representative's comments.

"He said pretty much, 'we wanted to give you this opportunity for this dialogue, but we really just want to figure out what are you proposing? What would look like victory to you in this situation?'" Dukes said.

"I told him if you're insinuating there's some monetary -- something that could make this go away, I said you're ignorant," he said. "It's insulting and I feel like I'm being handled and I ended the meeting," he said.

As for police, he said "they're playing this game of, we're investigating, we're looking into it."
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Old 3rd July 2019, 11:01 AM   #25
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This is another story where the OP hasn't shown that the motive was racism, although it is implied in the title.

Did this happen because the person was black?
Has the security guard called the police for similar infractions on white people?
Did this happen because the person was a dick to the guard?

If you are a dick to someone, and you get arrested because you are a dick, it does not equate to racism.

I would hope that people who are dicks, would get the same treatment regardless of skin color.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 12:27 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
This is another story where the OP hasn't shown that the motive was racism, although it is implied in the title.

Did this happen because the person was black?
Has the security guard called the police for similar infractions on white people?
Did this happen because the person was a dick to the guard?

If you are a dick to someone, and you get arrested because you are a dick, it does not equate to racism.

I would hope that people who are dicks, would get the same treatment regardless of skin color.
You're right of course, the OP, if they weren't constrained by space could have said,

Police officer charges someone who happens to be black for following their instructions.

Alternatively, apart from the most egregious examples where the cops actually use racist language, no one case is likely to unequivocally demonstrate racism, as opposed to a cop "merely" abusing their power.

However, given the overall statistics on disparity in treatment of different races by cops in the US, together with sample surveys demonstrating that many US cops are happy to publicly espouse racist views on social media, and the too-few investigations in depth of various police departments; ghere is little reason to give the cops the benefit of the doubt, when they are abusing their position in the first case, and there's no evidence that they have done so to white people.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 12:29 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
You're right of course, the OP, if they weren't constrained by space could have said,

Police officer charges someone who happens to be black for following their instructions.
Hey only arresting someone for following instructions is a step up from most of the times we hear about the police reacting badly to people following their instructions, usually they just shoot them for following instructions. This is of course perfectly fine.

So it would seem the officers biggest mistake here might well have been not killing the men.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 01:22 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
This is another story where the OP hasn't shown that the motive was racism, although it is implied in the title.

Did this happen because the person was black?
Has the security guard called the police for similar infractions on white people?
Did this happen because the person was a dick to the guard?

If you are a dick to someone, and you get arrested because you are a dick, it does not equate to racism.

I would hope that people who are dicks, would get the same treatment regardless of skin color.
It may or may not be racist.

It is absolutely an abuse of power, though.

Assuming "being a dick" didn't involve an illegal act.

You know, like...objecting to the interaction. Total dick move, off to jail you go.

Filming the interaction? Aggravated Dickishness. On the naughty step with you.

ETA: I've sometimes been a street medic at protests. I can say from experience all the same rules about dealing with wounded animals apply when dealing with medical patients.

Maybe if the security guard had put his (metaphorical) dick away and just thought about how to get this patient back to his room where someone could put a mild sedative in him (because his getting all worked up is not good for his recovering from pneumonia). But no, as usual the mall cop has to unzip and show everyone what he's working with.

People have screamed at me while I've tried to flush tear gas from their eyes, they want the bottle (so they can waste it for instant relief), they don't want to be touched, f-bomb this, you just shrug and move on to one of the other 20 people who need help, signal for a crisis counselor to come over and get back to them in a minute or have another medic help them because maybe its just the way you smell or your body build or apparent gender, who knows. It's a wounded animal. Don't take their hostility so damn personally.

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Old 3rd July 2019, 01:49 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
It may or may not be racist.

It is absolutely an abuse of power, though.

Assuming "being a dick" didn't involve an illegal act.

You know, like...objecting to the interaction. Total dick move, off to jail you go.

Filming the interaction? Aggravated Dickishness. On the naughty step with you.

ETA: I've sometimes been a street medic at protests. I can say from experience all the same rules about dealing with wounded animals apply when dealing with medical patients.

Maybe if the security guard had put his (metaphorical) dick away and just thought about how to get this patient back to his room where someone could put a mild sedative in him (because his getting all worked up is not good for his recovering from pneumonia). But no, as usual the mall cop has to unzip and show everyone what he's working with.

People have screamed at me while I've tried to flush tear gas from their eyes, they want the bottle (so they can waste it for instant relief), they don't want to be touched, f-bomb this, you just shrug and move on to one of the other 20 people who need help, signal for a crisis counselor to come over and get back to them in a minute or have another medic help them because maybe its just the way you smell or your body build or apparent gender, who knows. It's a wounded animal. Don't take their hostility so damn personally.
Channeling Ponderingturtle:

Yes, but policing is a job with unique pressures so you can't expect police to be rational, so that's why it's important to train patients who are going to be under medication or simply ill and stressed, to man up so they don't confuse the cops, as that's dangerous for them.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 04:02 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
I read it as " doctor said you can walk around the hospital but not leave the property. Which is common with iv stands as they do trend to go missing and are quite expensive (hospital placement ftw.).

He left the property, and as is policy was charged with attempting to remove hospital property.

I'm curious as to where you got he was forced off the property. Could you give me the bit that made you think that?
Sheesh! Did you even bother to read the bloody article?
"Dukes, his brother and another person went for a walk just after 4 p.m. on June 9, but were stopped in the parking lot on their way back into the hospital"

The security officer, who has not been named, demanded that Dukes and his companions walk over to his vehicle parked on the side of the street.

"Dukes said he was told by police that he was under arrest for attempted theft, since he was off hospital property with the medical equipment. He contends that he only left hospital property to make his way to the security officer’s vehicle when ordered to do so."
He was in the Hospital Car Park (which is hospital property) when he was accosted by the security guard. It was the security guard WHO MADE HIM LEAVE HOSPITAL PROPERTY.

It pays to actually read the referred article in the OP before making comments.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 06:30 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Sheesh! Did you even bother to read the bloody article?
"Dukes, his brother and another person went for a walk just after 4 p.m. on June 9, but were stopped in the parking lot on their way back into the hospital"

The security officer, who has not been named, demanded that Dukes and his companions walk over to his vehicle parked on the side of the street.

"Dukes said he was told by police that he was under arrest for attempted theft, since he was off hospital property with the medical equipment. He contends that he only left hospital property to make his way to the security officer’s vehicle when ordered to do so."
He was in the Hospital Car Park (which is hospital property) when he was accosted by the security guard. It was the security guard WHO MADE HIM LEAVE HOSPITAL PROPERTY.

It pays to actually read the referred article in the OP before making comments.
No, you don't understand. He should have just refused to leave the property.

Then they could have shot him for refusing to obey the command.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 11:59 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
No, you don't understand. He should have just refused to leave the property.

Then they could have shot him for refusing to obey the command.

Of course, silly me!

Why didn't I think of that?
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Old 4th July 2019, 12:04 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Of course, silly me!



Why didn't I think of that?
Because you've not undergone the long and extensive training it appears neccessary to become a police officer in the USA!
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Old 4th July 2019, 07:43 AM   #34
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Indeed, in most jurisdictions in the U.S., white police cadets are trained to shoot any suspect whose skin is darker than a cup of coffee with cream. And sugar.
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Old 4th July 2019, 04:27 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
You're right of course, the OP, if they weren't constrained by space could have said,

Police officer charges someone who happens to be black for following their instructions.

Alternatively, apart from the most egregious examples where the cops actually use racist language, no one case is likely to unequivocally demonstrate racism, as opposed to a cop "merely" abusing their power.

However, given the overall statistics on disparity in treatment of different races by cops in the US, together with sample surveys demonstrating that many US cops are happy to publicly espouse racist views on social media, and the too-few investigations in depth of various police departments; ghere is little reason to give the cops the benefit of the doubt, when they are abusing their position in the first case, and there's no evidence that they have done so to white people.
Well, you aren't a racist unless you're white and spewing the N-Word after all.

(In other words, another case of someone not knowing how to identify racism when it's directly in front of him/her)
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Old 4th July 2019, 04:59 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Well, you aren't a racist unless you're white and spewing the N-Word after all.

(In other words, another case of someone not knowing how to identify racism when it's directly in front of him/her)
Twenty years ago the MacPherson report was issued into the Metropolitan Police response to the racist murder of Steven Lawrence.

It paid a lot of attention to institutional racism, which is where the systems and culture conspire to discriminate even without explicit racism.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ct-did-it-have
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US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 5th July 2019, 02:48 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Well, you aren't a racist unless you're white and spewing the N-Word after all.

(In other words, another case of someone not knowing how to identify racism when it's directly in front of him/her)
Yep. It's the same ****, different day.

"What if it turned out that this security guard called the cops on 10 white people walking around with IV stands the previous week?"

"What if the last time the police officer didn't arrest someone with an active IV connection it turned out to have been Osama bin Laden?"

My default position on a black person being harassed/arrested while doing absolutely nothing wrong is that it's racism. It doesn't mean that white people aren't occasionally treated unfairly by cops. It doesn't even necessarily mean that the cop doing the harassing/arresting is thinking "haha, I've got this N-word right where I want him."

What it does mean is that this country is racist to its core and that'll never get fixed until everyone gets on board with properly identifying the problem, accepting its reality, and trying every day to act right.

We can perhaps start with training police officers to consider whether or not their actions are based on bias every single time they hassle a person of color for minor/questionable infractions, especially when they do so purely on someone else's word.
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Old 6th July 2019, 02:57 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
<snip>

We can perhaps start with training police officers to consider whether or not their actions are based on bias every single time they hassle a person of color for minor/questionable infractions, especially when they do so purely on someone else's word.

The rest would be helpful after we get them past that first (apparently very high) hurdle.
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Old 7th July 2019, 09:58 AM   #39
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Old 8th July 2019, 11:56 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
This is actually super common around here, though the people doing it are usually pale and shady. It sucks hospitals have to have this policy, but people made that so.
With IV cannulae stuck in their veins? Color me highly skeptical.
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