ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 15th July 2019, 08:58 AM   #161
bluesjnr
Professional Nemesis for Hire
 
bluesjnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Not where I should be.
Posts: 6,531
Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
An inability to differentiate between a bigoted, racist, thuggish, pondscum advocate for making the lives of innocent people worse
I'm pretty sure those at the trial he interfered in were eventually convicted, so not found innocent in any way, shape or form. He's no saint but I've never heard him advocate for innocent people to be harmed. It's entirely possible he has but I've not seen or heard it. Are you aware of any links?

Quote:
and a person laughing at a bigoted, racist, thuggish, pondscum advocate for making the lives of innocent people worse getting his comeuppance in an ironic way.
You sound kinda like a bigot to me.

Quote:
If you think these two things are the same, or nearly the same then you have serious issues with judgement.
If you are unable to see your lack of judgement for what it actually, on the face of it, is then you are in absolutely no position to analyse me. It's only a matter of time before you fantasise about Meathook Mike butt ******* me because I disagree with you.

Quote:
Perhaps if you spent less time worrying about the fate of bigoted, racist, thuggish, pondscum advocate for making the lives of innocent people worse you might be able to get more considered responses from people.
Tommy Robinsons fate is of no interest to me. What is of interest is that whatever fate he meets is legally arrived at. I want my criminals locked up doing time, not acting as judge, jury and executioner on my behalf. Let's face it good judgement is not a strong point.
bluesjnr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 09:02 AM   #162
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 86,759
Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Then you are very little different than the man who stood outside a court a few months ago encouraging mob rule.
Apart from not (granted I am assuming) having multiple criminal convictions for violence, fraud and contempt of court?
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 09:02 AM   #163
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 86,759
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Maybe the real issue here is that UKians aren't fit to serve on juries.
We are not talking about the UK.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 09:08 AM   #164
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 36,826
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
You dismissed that out of hand without any motivation, remember?
The opposite, actually. I accepted it without reservation. Where in my argument did you find a dismissal?
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 09:10 AM   #165
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 36,826
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
We are not talking about the UK.
You are wrong.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 09:43 AM   #166
zooterkin
Nitpicking dilettante
Deputy Admin
 
zooterkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berkshire, mostly
Posts: 43,071
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I thought we were stipulating the purpose given by Phantom Wolf: To prevent contamination of the jury pool. Where in my posts did you find "have no purpose"?
Then please explain why you suggest UKians aren't fit to serve on juries.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
Nerd! Hokulele
Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232
Ezekiel 23:20
zooterkin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 09:53 AM   #167
bluesjnr
Professional Nemesis for Hire
 
bluesjnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Not where I should be.
Posts: 6,531
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Apart from not (granted I am assuming) having multiple criminal convictions for violence, fraud and contempt of court?
You'll note I wrote "very little different" and not "the same", so confident was I that someone would come along..........

You didn't disappoint
bluesjnr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 09:55 AM   #168
zooterkin
Nitpicking dilettante
Deputy Admin
 
zooterkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berkshire, mostly
Posts: 43,071
Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
You'll note I wrote "very little different" and not "the same", so confident was I that someone would come along..........
You think that's a negligible difference?
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
Nerd! Hokulele
Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232
Ezekiel 23:20
zooterkin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 09:56 AM   #169
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 36,826
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Then please explain why you suggest UKians aren't fit to serve on juries.
I replied to your last post, and asked a follow-up question. I think it's reasonable for you to answer that question before requesting a follow-up from me.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 10:02 AM   #170
zooterkin
Nitpicking dilettante
Deputy Admin
 
zooterkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berkshire, mostly
Posts: 43,071
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I replied to your last post, and asked a follow-up question. I think it's reasonable for you to answer that question before requesting a follow-up from me.
Not relevant. You have yet to explain your bizarre remark, which is not as self-evident as you seem to think.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
Nerd! Hokulele
Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232
Ezekiel 23:20
zooterkin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 10:06 AM   #171
Arcade22
Philosopher
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,432
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The opposite, actually. I accepted it without reservation. Where in my argument did you find a dismissal?
No you dismissed it with a red herring about how it's "self-evident" that British people, or more specifically those in England and Wales, can't handle jury duty. All of this without the slightest bit of motivation or justification.
__________________
We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 10:22 AM   #172
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 36,826
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Not relevant. You have yet to explain your bizarre remark, which is not as self-evident as you seem to think.
It's relevant to me. I'll try to explain myself more clearly. But first I'd like to know where in my explanation so far you found the idea that I was dismissing a claim I had actually accepted.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 10:27 AM   #173
bluesjnr
Professional Nemesis for Hire
 
bluesjnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Not where I should be.
Posts: 6,531
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
You think that's a negligible difference?
Leave it out and behave yourself. Where on earth are you going with this?

Yes, I do think it sufficient of a difference and since it was me that authored the phrase in this thread it's my meter that I'm using.
bluesjnr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 10:44 AM   #174
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,477
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Apart from not (granted I am assuming) having multiple criminal convictions for violence, fraud and contempt of court?
I don't believe Archie Gemmel Goal really is anything like Tommy Robinson, but on this point bluesjnr has the moral high ground, vigilantism is vigilantism whether it occurs before or after trial. Criminals should have a fair trial, a fair sentencing and serve their sentence, not have the severity of their sentence depend on which other scumbags they come into contact with and how good their alliances are. We should be better than that.

In a related point the underfunding of the prison service is a national disgrace.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 10:45 AM   #175
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Suomi
Posts: 16,172
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
What he did was a criminal offence, he breached a court order that resisted the reporting on the case until those cases and the others were finished. The order was to protect the neutrality of the Jury pool.

Is that reasonable, yes.

Is it reasonable that he got a jail sentence... well that comes down to his past behaviour.

If this had been his first offence then it would not have been appropriate.

However, it was, he has 11 convictions, including the most recent being for the exact same thing. As a result, jail time is appropriate.

As to the hand wringing. He's going to serve 2 and a half months in a minimum, likely "B-Class" security prison, so it's very unlikely he's going to be in danger from murderous Muslim gangs.
AIUI what he was arguing was that the judge had not specifically said it would be contempt. Usually an order is issued that the press must 'black out' a specific trial (and to be fair, such trials are usually to do with national security, such as terrorism). Y-L claims there isn't anything that stops the press from standing at the court door making 'innocuous' comments to persons entering the court.

Of course, we all know Y-L was making a mockery of the law. His true aim in live streaming these defendants was to highlight their ethnicity and stir up anti-Muslim hatred.

However, technically there wasn't a 'breach' as the court hadn't as of the time issued an embargo. The view taken was that is was a 'given' even it it had not been made explicit as of the time Y-L was performing his shenanigans.
__________________
Then let the way appear, steps unto heav'n.
All that thou sendest me, in mercy giv'n.'
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 10:47 AM   #176
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Suomi
Posts: 16,172
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Well, his supporters have been outside of Belmarsh today, which is where the worst enemies of the Crown are held - Islamists and journalists. I've heard it is run by a certain white wizard from down under these days. Are they misinformed? Do you know better?
Jeffery Archer wrote his 'Prison Diary' from there.
__________________
Then let the way appear, steps unto heav'n.
All that thou sendest me, in mercy giv'n.'
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 10:48 AM   #177
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Suomi
Posts: 16,172
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Massive crowd of them, too. There must have been 50 or more there!



No, it's a local London prison. Jeffrey Archer & Denis McShane served time there.

Sorry it doesn't fit your fantasy narrative.
Ah, ninja-ed.
__________________
Then let the way appear, steps unto heav'n.
All that thou sendest me, in mercy giv'n.'
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 10:50 AM   #178
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 21,115
Here is the set of exchanges that I saw:
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Maybe the real issue here is that UKians aren't fit to serve on juries.
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
What a bizarre suggestion.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I think it follows directly from Phantom Wolf's explanation about the concern that Tommy Robinson would contaminate the jury pool.
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
In what way? Do you think the reporting restrictions around a trial have no purpose?
And here comes the bait and switch

zooterkin asked the obvious question.

From the context of the thread and the initial exchange above, theprestige is implying that Yaxley-Lennon's videos would have no effect on other trials in other countries but the would in the UK.

I'm struggling to come up with another, even vaguely plausible inference to draw.

However, now theprestige starts acting offended, and refusing to come out and explain whether he actually is claiming that UK jurors are somehow prone to being mire influenced by external information than those from other nations, and instead claims he's answered the question already.



Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I thought we were stipulating the purpose given by Phantom Wolf: To prevent contamination of the jury pool. Where in my posts did you find "have no purpose"?
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Then please explain why you suggest UKians aren't fit to serve on juries.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I replied to your last post, and asked a follow-up question. I think it's reasonable for you to answer that question before requesting a follow-up from me.
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Not relevant. You have yet to explain your bizarre remark, which is not as self-evident as you seem to think.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's relevant to me. I'll try to explain myself more clearly. But first I'd like to know where in my explanation so far you found the idea that I was dismissing a claim I had actually accepted.
The highlighted is somewhat implausible.

In short


https://xkcd.com/169/
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 10:55 AM   #179
Arcade22
Philosopher
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,432
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'll get to that in a moment. But you stopped reciprocating in our exchange, so I don't see much value in continuing right now.
You said it was self-evident so it shouldn't take much effort on your part to elaborate. That is if it really was self-evident, which of course it wasn't. It was nothing but a red herring.
__________________
We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 10:59 AM   #180
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 21,115
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
You said it was self-evident so it shouldn't take much effort on your part to elaborate. That is if it really was self-evident, which of course it wasn't. It was nothing but a red herring.
Well there are two implications - either of which theprestige could have been insinuating.

One: that UK potential jurors would be particularly prone to being affected by prejudicial information, and so trials need special protections in the UK.

Or two: that all potential jurors would be prone to this, and nobody, including UK citizens would be suitable to sit on juries.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 11:06 AM   #181
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 31,207
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Well there are two implications - either of which theprestige could have been insinuating.

One: that UK potential jurors would be particularly prone to being affected by prejudicial information, and so trials need special protections in the UK.

Or two: that all potential jurors would be prone to this, and nobody, including UK citizens would be suitable to sit on juries.

The other possibility is that theprestige had no real idea what he meant.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 11:06 AM   #182
Archie Gemmill Goal
Philosopher
 
Archie Gemmill Goal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,137
Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
I'm pretty sure those at the trial he interfered in were eventually convicted
Yep, but not the millions of other Muslims, immigrants and whatever other groups or individuals he dislikes and incites against.
__________________
"I love sex and drugs and sausage rolls
But nothing compares to Archie Gemmill's goal"
Archie Gemmill Goal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 11:11 AM   #183
Archie Gemmill Goal
Philosopher
 
Archie Gemmill Goal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,137
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
I don't believe Archie Gemmel Goal really is anything like Tommy Robinson, but on this point bluesjnr has the moral high ground, vigilantism is vigilantism whether it occurs before or after trial. Criminals should have a fair trial, a fair sentencing and serve their sentence, not have the severity of their sentence depend on which other scumbags they come into contact with and how good their alliances are. We should be better than that.
Indeed they should. But if by a quirk of fate it just so happens that the person on the receiving end of a scumbag happens to be Tommy Robinson then I for one will have a little chuckle to myself.

TR isn't afraid of dishing out vigilante justice himself, so if he receives it he can have little complaint.
__________________
"I love sex and drugs and sausage rolls
But nothing compares to Archie Gemmill's goal"
Archie Gemmill Goal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 12:28 PM   #184
Arcade22
Philosopher
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,432
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Here's my promise to you: If zooterkin explains how he got the opposite of what I meant, I'll explain what I meant as clearly as I can.
Now you are doing it again. When others can't make any sense of how you came to your "self-evident" conclusions it's not their job to explain why they don't "get it", rather It's your job to explain your own reasoning.

Because you want to be understood, correct?
__________________
We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 12:30 PM   #185
zooterkin
Nitpicking dilettante
Deputy Admin
 
zooterkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berkshire, mostly
Posts: 43,071
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Their interpretation of my posts. At this point, you and zooterkin are getting things so badly wrong that there's no point in continuing until this is cleared up. Instead, you seem to be committed to making it worse.

Here's my promise to you: If zooterkin explains how he got the opposite of what I meant, I'll explain what I meant as clearly as I can.
You did not communicate your point clearly. Please explain what you meant by saying UKians are not fit to serve on juries.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
Nerd! Hokulele
Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232
Ezekiel 23:20
zooterkin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 02:13 PM   #186
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 86,759
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
You are wrong.
Nope we are talking about an English and Welsh Court, we only have one UK court and this isn't it.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 03:16 PM   #187
bluesjnr
Professional Nemesis for Hire
 
bluesjnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Not where I should be.
Posts: 6,531
Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Yep, but not the millions of other Muslims, immigrants and whatever other groups or individuals he dislikes and incites against.
What has he said about "other" Muslims, immigrants and other groups? I can only find one tweet about wishing he could send every Muslim refugee in a set period home as they are fake refugees. We've seen that in some, though not all, cases he has been proven correct.
bluesjnr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 03:37 PM   #188
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 36,826
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Nope we are talking about an English and Welsh Court, we only have one UK court and this isn't it.
Meh.

I'm going to keep using "UKian" to refer to people, places, and things in the United Kingdoms of England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 03:46 PM   #189
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 36,826
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
You did not communicate your point clearly. Please explain what you meant by saying UKians are not fit to serve on juries.
We had a nice reciprocal conversation going. I'd say something, you'd respond. Then you'd say something, and I'd respond. Then I asked you about something you'd said, and you noped right on out. But somehow you want me to continue anyway. Why should I, when you won't?

What was it I said that made you think I was dismissing an argument I had actually stipulated? Was it confusion over the "UKian" label, like Darat seems to have?

Was it just a simple misreading, or a brief slip of attention? Some apparent or genuine ambiguity in my phrasing? Was the implication murkier than I thought it was?

---

Hell, at this point, I'd accept that you don't remember what you were thinking at that moment, but your conclusion wasn't supported, and now you just want the conversation to move forward.

Would you have a problem with that?
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 03:53 PM   #190
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 36,826
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Now you are doing it again. When others can't make any sense of how you came to your "self-evident" conclusions it's not their job to explain why they don't "get it", rather It's your job to explain your own reasoning.

Because you want to be understood, correct?
LOL.

Where did you get "self evident" from anything I said?

I'm well aware that my acceptance of the argument was implicit, not explicit. I never claimed it was self-evident. If zooterkin missed it, he missed it. At this point, I'm asking for a couple things:

First, civil reciprocity. I responded to zooterkin's inquiries, but when it was his turn to reciprocate, he didn't. Why should I keep playing along, if he won't?

Second, understanding. I would like to understand where zooterkin's conclusion came from. Was it something I worded badly? Too much ambiguity in my argument? Pure invention?

I know you're excited about attacking my next argument, whatever it turns out to be. I promise you'll have the opportunity, just as soon as we wrap this up.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 04:42 PM   #191
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 17,150
Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
What has he said about "other" Muslims, immigrants and other groups? I can only find one tweet about wishing he could send every Muslim refugee in a set period home as they are fake refugees. We've seen that in some, though not all, cases he has been proven correct.

They now have repeatedly refused to follow up on your requests for evidence. Maybe it is then as he describes his own story in the Oxford Union appearance I posted in #67? Doesn't sound like hating on random muslims for me. And if he were such a bone-headed thug as these people who forget their critical thinking and fairness over their indoctrination claim, it would be hard for him to even put off this performance in that very "civil society".
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 11:30 PM   #192
zooterkin
Nitpicking dilettante
Deputy Admin
 
zooterkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berkshire, mostly
Posts: 43,071
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
LOL.

Where did you get "self evident" from anything I said?

I'm well aware that my acceptance of the argument was implicit, not explicit. I never claimed it was self-evident. If zooterkin missed it, he missed it. At this point, I'm asking for a couple things:

First, civil reciprocity. I responded to zooterkin's inquiries, but when it was his turn to reciprocate, he didn't. Why should I keep playing along, if he won't?

Second, understanding. I would like to understand where zooterkin's conclusion came from. Was it something I worded badly? Too much ambiguity in my argument? Pure invention?

I know you're excited about attacking my next argument, whatever it turns out to be. I promise you'll have the opportunity, just as soon as we wrap this up.
You choose not to explain your remark. Fine, that's on you, not me.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
Nerd! Hokulele
Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232
Ezekiel 23:20
zooterkin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2019, 12:07 AM   #193
Lothian
should be banned
 
Lothian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: I try to be a moving target
Posts: 14,573
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Their interpretation of my posts. At this point, you and zooterkin are getting things so badly wrong that there's no point in continuing until this is cleared up. Instead, you seem to be committed to making it worse.
It is not you. It is everyone else. Literally. Everyone commenting thinks you are in the wrong.

Last edited by Lothian; 16th July 2019 at 12:09 AM.
Lothian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2019, 12:20 AM   #194
Archie Gemmill Goal
Philosopher
 
Archie Gemmill Goal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,137
Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
What has he said about "other" Muslims, immigrants and other groups? I can only find one tweet about wishing he could send every Muslim refugee in a set period home as they are fake refugees. We've seen that in some, though not all, cases he has been proven correct.
Well there you go, you found one all by yourself.

Is that the ONLY one you could find?
__________________
"I love sex and drugs and sausage rolls
But nothing compares to Archie Gemmill's goal"
Archie Gemmill Goal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2019, 12:28 AM   #195
Archie Gemmill Goal
Philosopher
 
Archie Gemmill Goal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,137
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
They now have repeatedly refused to follow up on your requests for evidence. .
Repeatedly? He only asked once and when he did he provided his own ******* evidence in the next sentence!

But if you insist...here's a tiny selection of fine upstanding journalist and free speech campaigner Tommy Robinson's loving comments about Muslims

https://resistinghate.org/tommy-robi...s-hate-tweets/
__________________
"I love sex and drugs and sausage rolls
But nothing compares to Archie Gemmill's goal"
Archie Gemmill Goal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2019, 12:33 AM   #196
Archie Gemmill Goal
Philosopher
 
Archie Gemmill Goal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,137
He has also taken to intimidating actual journalists at their homes and offices.

https://www.hopenothate.org.uk/resea...bic-extremist/
__________________
"I love sex and drugs and sausage rolls
But nothing compares to Archie Gemmill's goal"
Archie Gemmill Goal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2019, 12:34 AM   #197
Archie Gemmill Goal
Philosopher
 
Archie Gemmill Goal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,137
And his followers know exactly what he is and what he stands for.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/arti...rain-passenger
__________________
"I love sex and drugs and sausage rolls
But nothing compares to Archie Gemmill's goal"
Archie Gemmill Goal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2019, 02:14 AM   #198
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 41,116
The hand-waves will be along shortly... "Well, that might be opinionated and Islamophobic, but where's he actually on tape or film inciting violence, huh? Huh? You haven't got any, so Tommy's a swell bloke who's just a little rough around the edges."
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2019, 02:23 AM   #199
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,589
Opinion in the pub is divided but leans slightly (by numbers) towards Tommy being the next Prime Minister.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2019, 02:59 AM   #200
Wudang
BOFH
 
Wudang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire
Posts: 11,790
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Because you want to be understood, correct?

Is this a rhetorical question? Not sure.
__________________
"Your deepest pools, like your deepest politicians and philosophers, often turn out more shallow than expected." Walter Scott.
Wudang is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:01 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.