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Old 28th April 2014, 10:55 AM   #161
Giordano
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
In any case it did not always happen. So I would be useless as a test subject.
As Pixel42 pointed out, you don't have to do it every time; just more often than chance. Surely that is a low hanging fruit? Or recommend someone if you have no ability left. Millions of dollars might be theirs!

But the odd thing with paranormal abilities is that they never work more often than chance. Never.
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Old 28th April 2014, 10:59 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Well I have not really thought about that. But I would ask you the opposite,
what happens to a psychically sensitive child if their parents deny the childs feelings, and tell them they are imagining things? I myself know what that feels like.
Probably the same thing happens if you tell a child there is no Santa Claus. It hurts and violates what they think, but it is real life none the less.
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Old 28th April 2014, 11:29 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Well I have not really thought about that. But I would ask you the opposite,
what happens to a psychically sensitive child if their parents deny the childs feelings, and tell them they are imagining things? I myself know what that feels like.
There haven't been many replies to my posts, but I have to ask, what does psychically sensitive mean?
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Old 28th April 2014, 11:33 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
There haven't been many replies to my posts, but I have to ask, what does psychically sensitive mean?
People who can see, feel, or hear psychic phenomena.
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Old 28th April 2014, 11:49 AM   #165
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What are these psychic phenomena?
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Old 28th April 2014, 11:54 AM   #166
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I have been trying to follow your description, but I am a bit confused. If I may ask several questions, it may clear up my understanding.

1) after we physically die our spiritual energy goes to a higher (?) realm or plane, is there a name for this location or level?

2) when in this plane, we can remember our most recent Earth-life (as evidenced from our ability to contact still living people with details of our lives). Can we remember all our previous lives?

3) when in this plane, can we communicate with others in this plane? Do the more enlightened souls try to teach things to the less enlightened souls? Do souls get to watch what is happening on Earth? Do these observations provide learning experiences for the souls or is learning completely limited to souls that are living on Earth.

4) why would hearing a voice before winning a lottery be considered an astronomically rare event? Most of the lottery players (and other gamblers) I have encountered often describe having a strong feeling, or emotional revelation , or sudden insight indicating that success is imminent.

....
You seem very happy with your belief system. I have no desire to talk you out of it.
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Old 28th April 2014, 12:03 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
What are these psychic phenomena?
Things like the presence of spirits, or psychic energy.

Sensitive people can see hear or feel such things. It is called Clairvoyance, Clairaudience, or Clairsentience.
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Last edited by Scorpion; 28th April 2014 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 28th April 2014, 12:06 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
I have been trying to follow your description, but I am a bit confused. If I may ask several questions, it may clear up my understanding.
I answered your questions half way down page four.
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Old 28th April 2014, 12:26 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Well I have not really thought about that. But I would ask you the opposite,
what happens to a psychically sensitive child if their parents deny the childs feelings, and tell them they are imagining things? I myself know what that feels like.
.
A loving parent would explain to their child where the flaw in their wishful thinking is, and correct that.
It is the parents that bring up Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy... and then have to work around (evade) any questions a thoughtful child might have.
And these same parents will be exposing their child to the fantasies of religion, with their gods and angels and demons and saints and sinners.
The thoughtful child might think "WTF?"... silently of course, and hope for more enlightenment from other sources.
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Old 28th April 2014, 12:27 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Things like the presence of spirits, or psychic energy.

Sensitive people can see hear or feel such things. It is called Clairvoyance, Clairaudience, or Clairsentience.
Okay, so these abilities to sense those phenomena - are they different from things like creativity, storytelling, play, and other typical childish pursuits?

Are they different enough that they can be divided-off and studied?

Should not, by now, Doctors know how to diagnose a psychically sensitive child and provide appropriate guidance to parents? I'd imagine this would be very helpful, say to avoid wrongful diagnosis of ADHD or certain mental illnesses.
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Old 28th April 2014, 12:34 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
Okay, so these abilities to sense those phenomena - are they different from things like creativity, storytelling, play, and other typical childish pursuits?

Are they different enough that they can be divided-off and studied?

Should not, by now, Doctors know how to diagnose a psychically sensitive child and provide appropriate guidance to parents? I'd imagine this would be very helpful, say to avoid wrongful diagnosis of ADHD or certain mental illnesses.
I believe some children experience real psychic phenomena, and it is the luck of the draw how they are treated by their parents. Believers would encourage them and unbelievers would take them to psychiatrists.
It is my experience that the medical profession mostly diagnose psychic people as schizophrenic, or some such condition.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 28th April 2014, 01:06 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I believe some children experience real psychic phenomena, and it is the luck of the draw how they are treated by their parents. Believers would encourage them and unbelievers would take them to psychiatrists.
It is my experience that the medical profession mostly diagnose psychic people as schizophrenic, or some such condition.
No offense but have you been diagnozed with such a condition?
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Old 28th April 2014, 01:30 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
No offense but have you been diagnozed with such a condition?
Yes, and I guess that invalitates my opinions completely as far as most people here are concerned. I was put in hospital only once in my life in 1969 and was an out patient for two years. But when I found out they could not cure me I went to spiritualist churches. There I got healing (which I could often feel as energy and heat) and I gradually learned about the chakras, and how to close my aura and such.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 28th April 2014, 01:38 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Yes, and I guess that invalitates my opinions completely as far as most people here are concerned. I was put in hospital only once in my life in 1969 and was an out patient for two years. But when I found out they could not cure me I went to spiritualist churches. There I got healing (which I could often feel as energy and heat) and I gradually learned about the chakras, and how to close my aura and such.
Scorpion,

Can you (or anyone you know) see auras? If so, that's an easy thing to test and a much surer way to make money than the lottery.

Ward
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Old 28th April 2014, 01:46 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by wardenclyffe View Post
Scorpion,

Can you (or anyone you know) see auras? If so, that's an easy thing to test and a much surer way to make money than the lottery.

Ward
I think lots of people can see auras, and it is up to them if they want to try and get the money. But I cannot, I just feel psychic energy. However I am sure I could strengthen my auras defenses by my will, as I could feel the effects. I attended a healing class by the late medium Ursula Roberts in the spiritualist association London. And I learned how to build my defenses against negative energies.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 28th April 2014, 01:50 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I think lots of people can see auras, and it is up to them if they want to try and get the money. But I cannot, I just feel psychic energy.

Why not test this, then? We could have a spiritualist stand behind you. They would be told in advance whether to project energy, or just stand there. You would then record whether or not you sensed something.

Repeat this several times, and see if you are correct more often than chance would predict.
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Old 28th April 2014, 01:57 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I guess that invalitates my opinions completely as far as most people here are concerned.
What invalidates - or at least casts considerable doubt on - your opinions is that you have not a shred of objective evidence to support them, and every single time they've been put to the test they've been shown to be mistakes due to well known and well understood cognitive biases.
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Old 28th April 2014, 02:02 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Yes, and I guess that invalitates my opinions completely as far as most people here are concerned. I was put in hospital only once in my life in 1969 and was an out patient for two years. But when I found out they could not cure me I went to spiritualist churches. There I got healing (which I could often feel as energy and heat) and I gradually learned about the chakras, and how to close my aura and such.
So you credit the churches for your healing? Do they encourage this idea?
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Old 28th April 2014, 02:09 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Hokulele View Post
Why not test this, then? We could have a spiritualist stand behind you. They would be told in advance whether to project energy, or just stand there. You would then record whether or not you sensed something.

Repeat this several times, and see if you are correct more often than chance would predict.
I cannot imagine that working out, as only some healers are powerful enough for me to feel the energy, and most of them would not be likely to want to get involved. Besides the healing energy is directed down through the healer by spirits that would almost certainly distain such an effort.
But I know I have felt healing energy, and on some occasions the energy has stayed with me for several days after healing, until it ebbed away.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 28th April 2014, 02:13 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
So you credit the churches for your healing? Do they encourage this idea?
I have not even been to a spiritualist church for years, as I do not need healing any more. There was one church I went to about thirty years ago that made some attempt to document my case, but I drifted away so nothing came of it.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 28th April 2014, 02:17 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
So you credit the churches for your healing? Do they encourage this idea?
I'll put down 5 pesos they do. An extra wooden nickle that all the healings are people from the church.
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Old 28th April 2014, 02:29 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I answered your questions half way down page four.
I missed it in the split.

Thanks.

Last question: does insisting that there is no soul, no psychic phenomia, and no higher beings (as well as trying to convince others to reject spiritual beliefs) add to one's overall karmic debt?
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Old 28th April 2014, 02:37 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Yes, and I guess that invalitates my opinions completely as far as most people here are concerned. I was put in hospital only once in my life in 1969 and was an out patient for two years. But when I found out they could not cure me I went to spiritualist churches. There I got healing (which I could often feel as energy and heat) and I gradually learned about the chakras, and how to close my aura and such.
I am very happy that it works to make you feel better. Many people believe in things, such as a god, that makes them feel better.

But science is a harsh mistress, and doesn't care if you believe in something or not, or if the belief helps you or not. It only cares if you do x, does y always happen. To paraphrase Phil Dick: scientific realty is what remains whether you believe or not. Interestingly, science has proven very useful to humans, whereas things that don't reproduce well haven't.

So believe what you wish. But recognize that it is not science and it may well not describe things convincingly for everyone.
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Old 28th April 2014, 02:38 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
I missed it in the split.

Thanks.

Last question: does insisting that there is no soul, no psychic phenomia, and no higher beings (as well as trying to convince others to reject spiritual beliefs) add to one's overall karmic debt?
I doubt it, I think this is the age of reason, and we are intended to develop our intellects, so science is not disapproved of by the spirit world, in fact they may try to inspire people to invent new things from behind the scenes.

I have heard mediums be critical of people being too emotional and gullible.
The spirit world is all in favour of critical thinking. Mental powers are one of the things we are evolving.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 28th April 2014, 02:38 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Last question: does insisting that there is no soul, no psychic phenomia, and no higher beings (as well as trying to convince others to reject spiritual beliefs) add to one's overall karmic debt?
I hope so. I want to send my spirit back a few levels (kind of like playing the skip a turn card in Uno) but I don't want to actually hurt anyone.
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Old 28th April 2014, 02:42 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I cannot imagine that working out, as only some healers are powerful enough for me to feel the energy, and most of them would not be likely to want to get involved. Besides the healing energy is directed down through the healer by spirits that would almost certainly distain such an effort.

This seems like an incredibly selfish attitude on the part of the spirits and the healers. It would be a relatively simple way to show that such energy really does exist, quiet all the nay-sayers, and help those who need it. The fact that they can't even be bothered to try a simple test speaks volumes towards their motivations.
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Old 28th April 2014, 02:48 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by Hokulele View Post
This seems like an incredibly selfish attitude on the part of the spirits and the healers. It would be a relatively simple way to show that such energy really does exist, quiet all the nay-sayers, and help those who need it. The fact that they can't even be bothered to try a simple test speaks volumes towards their motivations.
We are not intended to have absolute proof of psychic powers, or the existence of God. We are here to work things out for ourselves. It is how we grow.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 28th April 2014, 02:54 PM   #188
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Cuddles (moderator) I would like to thank you for not banning me for derailing the other thread, and for going to all the trouble of splitting the threads.
I did not have the confidence to start my own thread about spiritualism.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 28th April 2014, 06:24 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I think lots of people can see auras, and it is up to them if they want to try and get the money. But I cannot, I just feel psychic energy. However I am sure I could strengthen my auras defenses by my will, as I could feel the effects. I attended a healing class by the late medium Ursula Roberts in the spiritualist association London. And I learned how to build my defenses against negative energies.
How were these negative energies being generated?
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Old 28th April 2014, 06:28 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I cannot imagine that working out, as only some healers are powerful enough for me to feel the energy, and most of them would not be likely to want to get involved. Besides the healing energy is directed down through the healer by spirits that would almost certainly distain such an effort.
But I know I have felt healing energy, and on some occasions the energy has stayed with me for several days after healing, until it ebbed away.
Yes the spirits disdain from proving themselves except in your case.
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Old 28th April 2014, 06:32 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
We are not intended to have absolute proof of psychic powers, or the existence of God. We are here to work things out for ourselves. It is how we grow.
Yet you say you have proof.
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Old 28th April 2014, 06:54 PM   #192
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Brian Dunning's latest episode of Skeptiko deals with the definition, use and misuse of the word "energy".

http://skeptoid.com/episode.php?id=4411&no_mobile=true

It was also the subject of the very first Skeptiko:

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4002
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Old 28th April 2014, 07:12 PM   #193
Pixel42
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
We are not intended to have absolute proof of psychic powers, or the existence of God. We are here to work things out for ourselves. It is how we grow.
Proving it's possible to get meaningful messages from the dead would be easy, if it was true. Testing such claims is how we work things out for ourselves, if we really want to know the truth. That is how we grow - by accepting reality, even if it's not what we would prefer to believe.

There's no difference between a world in which such claims cannot easily be demonstrated to be more than an artefact of fallible perceptions and cognitive biases and one in which they are not true.
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Old 28th April 2014, 08:03 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Well I have not really thought about that. But I would ask you the opposite,
what happens to a psychically sensitive child if their parents deny the childs feelings, and tell them they are imagining things? I myself know what that feels like.
They, hopefully, put aside such childish believe and grow up.
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Old 28th April 2014, 08:07 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I cannot imagine that working out, as only some healers are powerful enough for me to feel the energy, and most of them would not be likely to want to get involved. Besides the healing energy is directed down through the healer by spirits that would almost certainly distain such an effort.
But I know I have felt healing energy, and on some occasions the energy has stayed with me for several days after healing, until it ebbed away.
What level of healer? How many experience points does it take to get to that level? Will a +1 spiritualist robe help?
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Old 28th April 2014, 11:03 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Well I have not really thought about that. But I would ask you the opposite,
what happens to a psychically sensitive child if their parents deny the childs feelings, and tell them they are imagining things? I myself know what that feels like.
It is the adults around the child who interpret something a child has said as 'psychic'. There are two ways of saying, 'you're imagining things'; one is in a dismissive, non-understanding way and the other is in a 'what a lovely imagination you have; can you draw me a picture' etc way. The totally wrong way would be to jump to a 'this child is psychic' concklusion.
Remember that by the time a child can speak s/he has been seeing, listening and absorbing actions an conversations, snatches of words, etc all the time, all of which the child's brain has been checking, sorting, rearranging and redefining as the child grows. When I was a small child, I knew I could see fairies, but fortunately my parents did not interpret this as psychic!

If you look into any case where parents have said their child was psychic, I am sure you will not find any single one where it was not adult input which provided this interpretation.

From a general point of view, of course a child's sensitive nature should be nurtured and not squashed, but that child should be given the skills to be able to cope with life and not directed towards answers for which there is zero evidence; especially in today's world where information about the universe, from the smallest particle to the farthest star, is rapidly increasing and being updated.

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Old 29th April 2014, 04:07 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
How were these negative energies being generated?
According to spirit guides or the mediums who were purportedly channeling them, the world is surrounded by a dark band of negative psychic energy generated by all the wars and human suffering. I suffered from sensitivity to this energy, and in the streets of London I could feel it, but if I walked into an old church in London I immediately felt relief from the unpleasant sensations. I therefore spent many of my lunch hours recuperating in old churches in the city. I also learned techniques to draw the positive energy into myself. Not something you will learn from psychiatrists, who only offer you tranquilizers.
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Old 29th April 2014, 04:10 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
What level of healer? How many experience points does it take to get to that level? Will a +1 spiritualist robe help?
Many people in the spiritualist movement aspire to be healers, but only some of them give off power so much that I could feel it. They all give their time free of charge, and any donations made go to the overheads of the church.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 29th April 2014, 04:13 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Yet you say you have proof.
I have had personal evidence of survival after death, some of which I have posted on this thread. But it is subjective evidence that only means something to me, and it is not proof to anyone else. If you want to get your own evidence you would have to go to many spiritualist church services.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 29th April 2014, 04:24 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I have had personal evidence of survival after death
You have anecdotal evidence, which is as inadequate for you as it is for everybody else. Without verification by more reliable means the most likely explanation of your subjective experiences is the fallible perceptions and cognitive biases which have always been shown to be the explanation of all similar anecdotal evidence when such verification has been sought.
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