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Old 13th August 2019, 04:44 PM   #41
The Atheist
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
It doesn’t sit well with me.
It grinds the hell out my gears too.

If he wasn't great at whatever sport he plays, he would definitely be in jail.

That's monumentally wrong.
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Old 13th August 2019, 04:47 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Youth Courts in NZ can’t jail offenders? If true, an absolute joke.

I know this is not the case in Australia. Just last week I became aware of an under 18 employee of a client (can’t give details of how I know and the offence) who received a 7 year sentence with a minimum of 4 in a youth detention centre (aka jail).
The problem is that Youth Courts can only send you to a Youth detention centre, Jail for Kids, but under the law you need to be let out at 18 unless you were charged as an Adult. In this case he was charged as a kid, so at 18 he would be let out, but he was already 18 because of the time it took to get to court. So he couldn't be sentenced to jail because he was being tried as a kid, but also couldn't sent to a detention centre because he was 18.

I was going to say this in my initial post, but then went back and reread the article and saw that it wasn't mentioned and so I deleted it thinking that the Judge's reasoning was loopy when there was a more valid explanation. Now they have corrected it it all makes far more sense even if it's a quirk in the law.
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Old 13th August 2019, 08:28 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
...even if it's a quirk in the law.
I don't see it as a quirk of the law, I see it as a total failure by the judge to allow it to be held in Youth Court. The law should have worked fine in this case, but the judge didn't let it.
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Old 13th August 2019, 09:36 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I don't see it as a quirk of the law, I see it as a total failure by the judge to allow it to be held in Youth Court. The law should have worked fine in this case, but the judge didn't let it.
It's not up to the Judge, it's up to the police, and they didn't charge him as an adult. Though as I noted above I do have issues with doing so because it leads to it's own absurd quirks such as kids being charged as an adult for things that wouldn't be a crime if they were an adult.
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Old 13th August 2019, 11:28 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
It's not up to the Judge, it's up to the police, and they didn't charge him as an adult.
Except the cops wanted to charge him as an adult, but were obviously persuaded not to:

Quote:
The police had initially argued to transfer the case to the adult court...
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Old 14th August 2019, 12:30 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Except the cops wanted to charge him as an adult, but were obviously persuaded not to:
Not really "obviously"

Quote:
but abandoned the application two months before the teenager was sentenced.
It doesn't say they were persuaded not too, but rather that they abandoned the application
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Old 14th August 2019, 07:22 AM   #47
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Sidebar: In the US, arrests are made by the police, but charges are brought by the prosecutor, who may opt to release the suspect without bringing charges at all. The police don't make the decision of whether to charge or what to charge.

Is it different in Australia? Or is this simply colloquial, conflating cops and counselors for convenience in casual conversation?

Last edited by theprestige; 14th August 2019 at 08:50 AM.
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Old 15th August 2019, 07:45 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Sidebar: In the US, arrests are made by the police, but charges are brought by the prosecutor, who may opt to release the suspect without bringing charges at all. The police don't make the decision of whether to charge or what to charge.

Is it different in Australia? Or is this simply colloquial, conflating cops and counselors for convenience in casual conversation?
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Old 15th August 2019, 09:12 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
: rolleyes :
No answer to my question, then?
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Old 15th August 2019, 04:27 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
No answer to my question, then?
Get the question right and I might answer.
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Old 16th August 2019, 12:38 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Is it different in Australia?
Good question.

In what way is it relevant to the thread?
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Old 16th August 2019, 01:34 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Get the question right and I might answer.
I feel like I got it close enough for you to answer if you wanted to.
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Old 17th August 2019, 12:54 AM   #53
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You think New Zealand and Australia are "close enough" for you to not correct your mistake?

In case it helps, in South Australia, we have the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions, and Police Prosecutors.

DPP staff (or the DPP themself) prosecute the more serious crimes, and the Police handle the smaller stuff.

https://www.dpp.sa.gov.au/
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Old 17th August 2019, 03:23 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
You think New Zealand and Australia are "close enough" for you to not correct your mistake?

In case it helps, in South Australia, we have the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions, and Police Prosecutors.

DPP staff (or the DPP themself) prosecute the more serious crimes, and the Police handle the smaller stuff.

https://www.dpp.sa.gov.au/
Same in Victoria. A western province of New Zealand for the ignorant.....
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Old 17th August 2019, 03:25 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
This is a judgement that sometimes, rather infuriatingly, crops up in rape cases, though; the judge gives a more lenient sentence because normal sentencing guidelines would result in a seriously negative impact on the perpetrator's career. It gives a clear message that the judge doesn't really think rape is a proper crime, so the rapist doesn't really warrant a proper sentence. Meanwhile the seriously negative impact on the victim's perfectly reasonable goal of being a secure, happy person seems to be less important. It's not just New Zealand that still seems to have this problem sometimes.

Dave
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Old 17th August 2019, 07:13 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I feel like I got it close enough for you to answer if you wanted to.
Yeah, that's what I'd expect from a Mexican.
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Old 21st August 2019, 01:34 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
No answer to my question, then?
Yes, things are different in different countries. Wild, I know.
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Old 21st August 2019, 01:35 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Yeah, that's what I'd expect from a Mexican.
Or a Canadian.
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