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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , church scandals , George Pell , roman catholic church , sex scandals

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Old 19th August 2019, 06:12 PM   #1481
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Such people are unlikely to be taking confession seriously, then.
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Old 19th August 2019, 06:21 PM   #1482
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Such people are unlikely to be taking confession seriously, then.
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Old 19th August 2019, 06:47 PM   #1483
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Right, so they're not going to confess their crime. So we're not talking about them right now. We're talking about the ones who take it seriously enough to actually confess. The rest don't matter to the discussion.
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Old 19th August 2019, 07:09 PM   #1484
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Pell’s appeal decision tomorrow. What do people predict?

I fear he will get off, or at least a reduced sentence amounting to time served.
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Old 20th August 2019, 01:15 PM   #1485
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Can see him getting a retrial this arvo'

Probably let lose till it happens
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Old 20th August 2019, 03:36 PM   #1486
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Can see him getting a retrial this arvo'

Probably let lose till it happens
Can you translate this into English, please?
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Old 20th August 2019, 04:02 PM   #1487
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Can see him getting a retrial this arvo'

Probably let lose till it happens
Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
Can you translate this into English, please?
Here you go.

Can see him getting a retrial this afternoon.

Probably free on bail until the trial happens.

I hope you are wrong.
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Old 20th August 2019, 04:12 PM   #1488
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It looks like the Appeals Court can only decide to grant the appeal, reject it or order a new trial. It can’t amend the sentence.

Only about 20 minutes before the decision, broadcast live. I have a feeling there might be a re-trial, which would be a disappointing dodge by the Appeals Court, would lead to the circus starting over and to defence demands that Pell is too frail for incarceration.
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Old 20th August 2019, 04:33 PM   #1489
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Appeal dismissed. Good.
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Old 20th August 2019, 04:38 PM   #1490
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Turned down

Back to jail

Buy buy Pell Pell
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Old 20th August 2019, 04:50 PM   #1491
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Two to one majority judgement, with Weinberg finding in favour of the appeal.

I’m listening to the reasons for the majority decision, and it’s very clearly and rationally stated.

As most here probably realise, the Appeal Court does not re-try the case, but decides that the jury made a decision beyond reasonable doubt. The jury in this case appears to have gone to great lengths to look at and assess all evidence. It was not a quick decision and I’m sure it was difficult, even agonising, for the jurors.

So, off to the High Court it seems. The circus continues. It would be astounding if the High Court grants an appeal. Indeed it’s even uncertain that Pell will be granted leave to appeal.
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Old 20th August 2019, 05:05 PM   #1492
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Surely now is the time for the church to de-frock Pell.
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Old 20th August 2019, 06:12 PM   #1493
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Surely now is the time for the church to de-frock Pell.
You'd think.
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Old 20th August 2019, 06:27 PM   #1494
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Analysis: George Pell has lost his appeal. What did the court decide and what happens now?

Quote:
...What can happen now?
Cardinal Pell can seek special leave to appeal to the High Court. If the High Court denies permission, the matter is finalised; if given, it will later deliver a final judgment.

Save for a successful appeal in the High Court, Pope Francis will likely expel Cardinal Pell from the priesthood. The family of the second survivor is suing him and or the church for civil damages, as may others. Cardinal Pell will remain in jail.

It is exceptionally difficult for survivors of child sexual abuse to bring successful criminal complaints, especially against powerful offenders. This judgment may encourage other courageous survivors to make complaints.

Yet many systemic reforms are still required to better facilitate prosecutions of child sexual offences.
(Highlight added by me)
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Old 20th August 2019, 06:39 PM   #1495
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I do feel that most Catholics take their religion seriously, yes.
Guess again. The al-a-carte catholics take it not at all seriously. It is amusing that you would even think that. It exposes a certain naivite that you would even think that. The only place that happens are in third world countries who lack education to know better and even that is ending.

ETA: I was directly involved in the investigation of the 800 victims in Tuam, The RCC didn't like that much but facts are stubborn things. I am directly involved with with my trans eldest and his endless quest to be recognised for his own person. The RCC doesn't like that much either. Neither does the RCC school. Which is controlled by cross dressing perverts no less. Personally, I stand fore-square with him. But his RCC mother clings to the notion that he can be "fixed" somehow to be a girl. Personally, I volunteer on a help-line for the families, friends and whatnot that struggle with trans teens and from that I can tell you that it is a horror show with a single common thread, religion.

Yet somehow, you think you have it all figured out in your towering arrogance. Grow up.
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Old 20th August 2019, 06:42 PM   #1496
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
With the Chief Justice sitting on the appeal, I would not be surprised if the Hugh Court refuses leave to appeal. The only thing that gives me pause is the majority rather than unanimous decision. Even if the High Court appeal does proceed it could be many months away.
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Old 20th August 2019, 06:43 PM   #1497
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Guess again. The al-a-carte catholics take it not at all seriously. It is amusing that you would even think that. It exposes a certain naivite that you would even think that. The only place that happens are in third world countries who lack education to know better and even that is ending.
Well, you may have different experience with Catholics than I do because that has not been my experience. I worked with quite a few Catholics when I worked in the aid and development sector (Caritas being one of the biggest organisations in that sector), and I can assure you they took it quite seriously.
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Old 20th August 2019, 10:26 PM   #1498
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
With the Chief Justice sitting on the appeal, I would not be surprised if the Hugh Court refuses leave to appeal. The only thing that gives me pause is the majority rather than unanimous decision. Even if the High Court appeal does proceed it could be many months away.
Remember there has to be a legal reason for an appeal, not simply that the lawyers want another go. The appeal that has just been given also considered 2 other legal reasons for an appeal and they were not upheld. Has any one said on what basis an appeal to the High Court would be made on?
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Old 20th August 2019, 10:57 PM   #1499
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Remember there has to be a legal reason for an appeal, not simply that the lawyers want another go. The appeal that has just been given also considered 2 other legal reasons for an appeal and they were not upheld. Has any one said on what basis an appeal to the High Court would be made on?
Not so far.

You are absolutely correct and there has to be grounds. I said earlier about the County Court verdict that is was thorough and seemed to cover all bases, which is why it held up on appeal.
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Old 21st August 2019, 02:16 AM   #1500
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Pell’s appeal decision tomorrow. What do people predict?

I fear he will get off, or at least a reduced sentence amounting to time served.
I expected the appeal to succeed and then be set aside by the Supreme Court. It's happened before.

Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Surely now is the time for the church to de-frock Pell.
Not a chance. That would be almost admitting responsibility, and culpability. Maybe when he loses the Supreme Court appeal.

Fisher is still trying to spin the pro-innocence message, emphasising that
"has strenuously maintained his innocence" and "continues to do so notwithstanding today’s decision". He also describes the court's ruling as "a split decision" that is "consistent with the differing views of the juries in the first and second trials, as well as the divided opinion amongst legal commentators and the general public".
The denial of reality is strong in Sydney though Comensoli in Melbourne is less dismissive.
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Old 21st August 2019, 02:20 AM   #1501
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
I expected the appeal to succeed and then be set aside by the Supreme Court. It's happened before.


Not a chance. That would be almost admitting responsibility, and culpability. Maybe when he loses the Supreme Court appeal.

Fisher is still trying to spin the pro-innocence message, emphasising that
"has strenuously maintained his innocence" and "continues to do so notwithstanding today’s decision". He also describes the court's ruling as "a split decision" that is "consistent with the differing views of the juries in the first and second trials, as well as the divided opinion amongst legal commentators and the general public".
The denial of reality is strong in Sydney though Comensoli in Melbourne is less dismissive.
Who’s Fischer? Tim Fischer? I’ve never rated him. A Country Party hack of little consequence.
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Old 21st August 2019, 02:45 AM   #1502
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Who’s Fischer? Tim Fischer? I’ve never rated him. A Country Party hack of little consequence.

Anthony Fisher, the Roman Catholic archbishop of Sydney. He of cranky victims fame.
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Old 21st August 2019, 03:37 AM   #1503
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post

Anthony Fisher, the Roman Catholic archbishop of Sydney. He of cranky victims fame.
Thanks. I see Tim Fischer is near death, so I should not have been so uncharitable.
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Old 21st August 2019, 04:21 AM   #1504
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I just watched the full televised judgement. Brilliant.
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Old 21st August 2019, 02:39 PM   #1505
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Well the news goes on again today, and those like me who had a celebratory drink after yesterdays verdict, now must wait to see what happens next. High court? Let's see - at least Pell can't go to the Privy Council, although he probably would like to.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-...-pell/11436654.

Quote:
In February, the Holy See announced its own internal inquiry into Pell, to be run by the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, a body with the power to investigate its own.
Well that seems a move in the right direction ..... but wait:

Quote:
"The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is awaiting the outcome of the ongoing proceedings and the conclusion of the appellate process prior to taking up the case," he said.
Journalist and Vatican analyst Deborah Castellano Lubov said the Vatican was being "prudent" by delaying its own investigation.
So although this "Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith" announced its own enquiry into Pell in February, it hasn't started the ball rolling yet. Well that's a surprise.

Don't hold your breath folks. It might be a while yet before they get that frock off Pell's back.
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Old 22nd August 2019, 01:43 AM   #1506
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Well the news goes on again today, and those like me who had a celebratory drink after yesterdays verdict, now must wait to see what happens next. High court? Let's see - at least Pell can't go to the Privy Council, although he probably would like to.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-...-pell/11436654.



Well that seems a move in the right direction ..... but wait:



So although this "Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith" announced its own enquiry into Pell in February, it hasn't started the ball rolling yet. Well that's a surprise.

Don't hold your breath folks. It might be a while yet before they get that frock off Pell's back.
I think you can call the Catholic Church a pedophile organisation. It has covered up many such crimes committed by its members world wide over a long period of time. It is rare that they report these crimes to the police..
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Old 22nd August 2019, 02:57 PM   #1507
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Astounding loyalty by one of Pell's brothers in the cloth:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-...ocent/11437882

Quote:
Melbourne's Catholic Archbishop Peter Comensoli says he continues to believe George Pell is innocent of child sexual abuse, suggesting the jailed Cardinal is in fact a victim of mistaken identity.

The Archbishop, who said he remained a friend of Pell's, said he believed Witness J was abused, but he did not believe it was by Pell.

One would think Pell's defence would have grabbed this one if it had any credibility. The Archbishop's conviction of Pell's innocence seems to be only based on the word of the Cardinal. Given Pell's record of lying when giving evidence to the Royal Commission, this is an extraordinary leap of faith. Who can recall the gasps of disbelief in the audience when he gave evidence in Rome?
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Old 22nd August 2019, 11:11 PM   #1508
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First Dog, as usual, nails it.
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Old Yesterday, 06:52 AM   #1509
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
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Old Yesterday, 02:38 PM   #1510
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post

First Dog certainly has his paw on the problem.
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Old Yesterday, 03:41 PM   #1511
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Astounding loyalty by one of Pell's brothers in the cloth:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-...ocent/11437882




One would think Pell's defence would have grabbed this one if it had any credibility. The Archbishop's conviction of Pell's innocence seems to be only based on the word of the Cardinal. Given Pell's record of lying when giving evidence to the Royal Commission, this is an extraordinary leap of faith. Who can recall the gasps of disbelief in the audience when he gave evidence in Rome?
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post

As First Dog points out:

"Pell is not in jail for his inexplicable ignorance of the sustained systematic structural tsunami of the sexual abuse of children in his church."

Yes "inexplicable ignorance" indeed! One must wonder how knowledge of this, and statements by others contradicting the words of Pell, has influenced the opinion of the jurors and the appeal judges, regarding the veracity of Pell's testimony.

I know jurors and judges, are supposed to only consider the evidence presented related to the specific crime being tried, but people may not be able to block the other knowledge in their heads.
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