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Old 1st July 2018, 11:28 PM   #81
David Mo
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Originally Posted by David Mo View Post
I think I suggested no such thing. What I have said is that we need to focus on why we believe this atheism is following a bad practice. In other words, why this practice is bad, regardless of whether an atheist or a believer follows it.



In Spain the crime of blasphemy is included in the legal code. Courts generally dismiss cases. But the crime exists and is a menace against freedom of expression. Actor Willy Toledo made a public statement in which he said, "I ***** on God and I still have plenty of ***** to ***** on the dogma of the Virgin Mary's virginity". He then stated that he did not recognize the right of a court to bring charges against him for these words and that he declared himself insubordinate. When the court called him to testify, he didn't come. Toledo, unlike other people who were accused of the same crime, who simply stated that they did not want to offend anyone, wanted to draw attention to the illegitimacy of such a crime and questioned the law itself, which the other defendants had not done in accepting the trial and trusting in their innocence.

Maybe he's right.

NOTE: "*****" is referred to the daily task of ejecting the organic waste from the body. I omit the word to avoid the censure of this forum, but in Spain is an habitual exclamation, very popular in some regions. Toledo's attack transcedend the circumstancial situation to aim to the state of right.

Edited by jsfisher:  Edited to (1) fully mask the naughty words as required by the Membership Agreement, and (2) fixed the damaged quote-tags.
I thought I have "masked" "naughty" words. Not enough apparently.

Willy Toledo is erased in an sceptical forum! ĦAy caramba!
This is sobering.
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Old 2nd July 2018, 12:03 AM   #82
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by David Mo View Post
I thought I have "masked" "naughty" words. Not enough apparently.

Willy Toledo is erased in an sceptical forum! ĦAy caramba!
This is sobering.
Just type the words you wish to use out in full. The "naughty" ones will be automatically masked for you. It couldn't possibly be any easier.
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Old 3rd July 2018, 12:23 PM   #83
dann
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Originally Posted by David Mo View Post
In Spain the crime of blasphemy is included in the legal code.

We had a similar law in Denmark until last year. Not used very often.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 12th July 2019, 05:25 AM   #84
IanS
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Originally Posted by Trakar View Post
I've no problem with those who have no theism beliefs (my understanding of the term a-theist), but (subjectively) most that loudly proclaim their atheism seem to be more anti-theist, or con(against)-theists/theism, rather than truly, and merely, without theistic beliefs. Agnosticism, is merely being uncertain and unsure whether or not there is an objectively compelling case for Theism or the Supernatural. The purported power of Faith, is the acceptance of that unseen, perhaps unseeable, despite the lack of compelling support. It doesn't take faith to believe in that which we can see, measure, and quantify.


I don't know how many people say they are atheists without being critical of religions in some way or other. I expect it's far more common that most atheists do find reasons to criticise various aspects of all religions.

Do you think Christianity (just for example) is above criticism? Even if the criticism is only one of education to say that (for example) it's a serious problem when Christians today (and Muslims) raise their children, and preach to adults, saying that evolution is untrue and that there is better evidence for divine creation. That is surely a serious and quite dangerous thing for those theists to do ... because they are teaching people to reject science and to reject an unarguable mountain of honest objective evidence that explains the origin of Man. That's teaching children/others to reject or doubt science, and that's seriously anti-educational.

There are of course numerous other reasons why anyone ought to criticise religious beliefs about such things as praying for sick children/relatives whilst refusing to call the medical services … or encouraging people to believe in the need for exorcisms (apparently supported by supposedly “moderate” priests and vicars all around the world) … or frightening young children with ideas about being sent to Hell if they misbehave (which apparently, in the USA, is something that many lapsed Christians say was terrifying to them in their early years (say, 6 to 12 years old).

And then we have the issues around tax concessions and various favourable grants being given to churches and religious schools etc. Which of course all goes to maintaining and expanding the religion.

So there are numerous reasons why anyone (not just atheists) really should be critical of many things that are allowed to continue under the banner of Religion.

Last edited by IanS; 12th July 2019 at 05:27 AM.
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