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Old 11th July 2019, 09:54 PM   #281
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One such argument under item 4 that I have heard is the argument that the Quran is the most beautiful book that has ever been written, and no human can do better. Accordingly, the Quran must have been written by Allah.
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Old 12th July 2019, 01:09 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
One such argument under item 4 that I have heard is the argument that the Quran is the most beautiful book that has ever been written, and no human can do better. Accordingly, the Quran must have been written by Allah.
These people are like Donald Trump and the Art of the Deal.
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Old 28th July 2019, 05:36 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- People want to live in health, happiness and pleasure, blessings forever.

3- So it is wiser to think that Paradise exists.
And;

Almost no one wants to stay / wait for thousands or millions of years to disappear, even if it is interrupted, they want to continue their life as soon as possible, and especially want to have a life of paradise immediately.

In this context, at least some deserving good peoples have already been created in paradise without waiting and have begun their eternal life now. (and therefore a place (s) in which this occurs.

Quran: ∑ "Do not count that those who are killed in the sake of God are dead. No, they are alive at their Lord receiving provisions. Happy with what God has granted them from His favor, and they rejoice for those who have yet to follow them. There is no fear over them nor do they grieve." (The Family of Imran, 3: 169-170)

http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2011/...-to-quran.html
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Old 28th July 2019, 06:02 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
And;

Almost no one wants to stay / wait for thousands or millions of years to disappear, even if it is interrupted, they want to continue their life as soon as possible, and especially want to have a life of paradise immediately.

In this context, at least some deserving good peoples have already been created in paradise without waiting and have begun their eternal life now. (and therefore a place (s) in which this occurs.

Quran: ∑ "Do not count that those who are killed in the sake of God are dead. No, they are alive at their Lord receiving provisions. Happy with what God has granted them from His favor, and they rejoice for those who have yet to follow them. There is no fear over them nor do they grieve." (The Family of Imran, 3: 169-170)

http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2011/...-to-quran.html
So the writer claims to speak for the dead? Has been given a sneak-peek at heaven and knows exactly who is there and how it works?

More likely, this is just placating words for the grieving. Go look up John Edward about such scammers.
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Old 28th July 2019, 06:44 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
And;
The Qur'an speaks of paradise in the future tense. I've asked you several times to reconcile that with your insistence of an instant paradise. I guess you don't have the theological chops to do it.
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Old 29th July 2019, 05:44 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
The Qur'an speaks of paradise in the future tense. I've asked you several times to reconcile that with your insistence of an instant paradise. I guess you don't have the theological chops to do it.
They don't have a block of copypasta they think is relevant.
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Old 29th July 2019, 05:59 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
They don't have a block of copypasta they think is relevant.
Hm, so I'm permitted to "demand evidence" only in a way that can be satisfied from Emre's incompetent polemic web sites? Sigh...
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Old 29th July 2019, 11:34 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
What happens to rats or mice when they live in an environment free from disease, hunger, discomfort, and danger? In health, happiness, and pleasure forever? The experiment's been done.
I'm picturing a mouse Zardoz floating through Universe 25.
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Old 29th July 2019, 11:36 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, "Secret book" defends pagan thought / brain power absurdity.

There is no thought power in my sentences. I'm showing the opposite.
Truer words never spoken.
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Old 29th July 2019, 03:54 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
And;

Almost no one wants to stay / wait for thousands or millions of years to disappear, even if it is interrupted, they want to continue their life as soon as possible, and especially want to have a life of paradise immediately.

In this context, at least some deserving good peoples have already been created in paradise without waiting and have begun their eternal life now. (and therefore a place (s) in which this occurs.

Quran: ∑ "Do not count that those who are killed in the sake of God are dead. No, they are alive at their Lord receiving provisions. Happy with what God has granted them from His favor, and they rejoice for those who have yet to follow them. There is no fear over them nor do they grieve." (The Family of Imran, 3: 169-170)

http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2011/...-to-quran.html
And;

Quran: A man came running from the farthest part of the city, saying: "O my people, follow the messengers. Follow those who do not ask you for any wage, and are guided. Why should I not serve the One who initiated me, and to Him is your ultimate return? Shall I take gods besides Him? If the Gracious intends any harm for me, their intercession cannot help me in the least, nor can they save me. Then I would be clearly astray. I have acknowledged your Lord, so listen to me! It was said, "Enter Paradise." He said "Oh, how I wish my people only knew of what my Lord has forgiven me, and made me of the honored ones."We did not send down upon his people after him soldiers from the sky; for there was no need to send them down. For all it took was one scream, whereupon they were stilled. (36:20-29)

19:56 And recall in the Book, Enoch; he was a man of truth, a prophet.

19:57 And We raised him to a high place.

3:55 For God said: "O Jesus, I will terminate your life, and raise you to Me, and cleanse you of those who have rejected, and make those who have followed you above those who have rejected until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, all of you,so I will judge between you in what it was that you disputed."

Prophets and very good peoples in Paradise now. They were created in Paradise (floor of Lord/other universe) without waiting for the Hour.

But, Other people will wait for the Resurrection for re-creation.
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Old 29th July 2019, 05:42 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
And;

Quran: A man came running from the farthest part of the city, saying: "O my people, follow the messengers. Follow those who do not ask you for any wage, and are guided. Why should I not serve the One who initiated me, and to Him is your ultimate return? Shall I take gods besides Him? If the Gracious intends any harm for me, their intercession cannot help me in the least, nor can they save me. Then I would be clearly astray. I have acknowledged your Lord, so listen to me! It was said, "Enter Paradise." He said "Oh, how I wish my people only knew of what my Lord has forgiven me, and made me of the honored ones."We did not send down upon his people after him soldiers from the sky; for there was no need to send them down. For all it took was one scream, whereupon they were stilled. (36:20-29)

19:56 And recall in the Book, Enoch; he was a man of truth, a prophet.

19:57 And We raised him to a high place.

3:55 For God said: "O Jesus, I will terminate your life, and raise you to Me, and cleanse you of those who have rejected, and make those who have followed you above those who have rejected until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, all of you,so I will judge between you in what it was that you disputed."

Prophets and very good peoples in Paradise now. They were created in Paradise (floor of Lord/other universe) without waiting for the Hour.

But, Other people will wait for the Resurrection for re-creation.
I have no idea what you are trying to say with this meaningless extract from the middle of the Quran. And I suspect strongly neither do you. It sounds like you skipped the start of the story, grabbed part of the play just before the interesting bit, then skipped the rest of the story.
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Old 29th July 2019, 07:35 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Prophets and very good peoples in Paradise now.
No. All the references to paradise in the Qur'an are in future tense. You cannot reconcile your claims with your scriptures. You seem to lack the intellectual maturity to have this debate. You cannot address a single statement made by anyone else in the thread. You seem long ago to have stopped listening to anyone but yourself.

I demand evidence that you are worth paying attention to.
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Old 29th July 2019, 08:29 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I have no idea what you are trying to say with this meaningless extract from the middle of the Quran. And I suspect strongly .


The Qur'an says that a group of exception people are already living in Paradise.

And it even tells us that some of them are talking about the world's inhabitants. They say "they(World peoples) will come to us later". However, it is difficult to see them for you because the English translations of the Qur'an do not provide complete sentences.

Likewise, the verses of the Lord's Floor are also mentioned, but you cannot see it again in English translations. Because, unfortunately, those under the influence of traditional interpretation make translations in their own understanding.

Yes, according to the Qur'an there are already people living in Paradise.

And that's where Christians believe that Jesus is in heaven.

In the false Gospels, the event was described incorrectly, so you could not see the painting until today.

Jesus and all other messengers/ prophets live in paradise now.

Last edited by Emre_1974tr; 29th July 2019 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 29th July 2019, 10:36 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The Qur'an says that a group of exception people are already living in Paradise.
No. The Qur'an speaks of paradise only the future tense.

Quote:
And that's where Christians believe that Jesus is in heaven.
No. Christians do not believe in the Qur'anic concept of paradise.

Quote:
In the false Gospels, the event was described incorrectly...
No. Christianity and Islam are simply different religions. Your broken concept of correctness arises only because you mistakenly presume the Qur'an is correct.

Prove to us you actually know the slightest thing about comparative religion.
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Old 29th July 2019, 10:51 PM   #295
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I don't think we are conversing with someone who is capable of reasoned discussion...
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Old 30th July 2019, 03:08 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The Qur'an says that a group of exception people are already living in Paradise.

And it even tells us that some of them are talking about the world's inhabitants. They say "they(World peoples) will come to us later". However, it is difficult to see them for you because the English translations of the Qur'an do not provide complete sentences.

Likewise, the verses of the Lord's Floor are also mentioned, but you cannot see it again in English translations. Because, unfortunately, those under the influence of traditional interpretation make translations in their own understanding.

Yes, according to the Qur'an there are already people living in Paradise.

And that's where Christians believe that Jesus is in heaven.

In the false Gospels, the event was described incorrectly, so you could not see the painting until today.

Jesus and all other messengers/ prophets live in paradise now.
And what I said;

heaven is not paradise. Heaven =universe

Heavens = universes

The Qur'an offers a multi-universe model.

But it is not infinite.

Seven universes, for example.

Other universes have planets too.

65.12 Allah is the one who created seven Heavens and from Earth like them (of corresponding type); [Allah's] command descends among them so that you may know that Allah is capable of anything and that Allah knows everything.

Example "Floor of Lord" (Indallah) = afterlife universe

Except for the Hereafter universe, all the other universes will end with big crunch.

21:104 On the day when We roll up the heavens like a scroll of books is rolled up. As We initiated the first creation, so shall We return it. It is a promise of Ours that We will do this.

39:67 They have not given God His true worth; and the whole earth is within His fist on the day of resurrection, and the heavens will be folded in His right hand. Be He glorified; He is much too high above what they set up.

***

And,

There are creatures too in other universes and planets:

21:19 To Him is whoever is in the heavens and in the earth. Those who are near Him are not too proud to serve Him, nor do they complain.

55:29 Those in the heavens and earth ask Him, everyday He is in some matter.

16:49 And to God prostrate all those in the heavens and all those on the earth, from the creatures and the angels, and they are not arrogant.
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Old 30th July 2019, 03:35 AM   #297
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And;

3:169 Do not count that those who are killed in the sake of God are dead. No, they are alive at their Lord receiving provisions.

3:170 Happy with what God has granted them from His grace, and they rejoice in those who have yet to follow after them. There is no fear upon them nor do they grieve.


5:17 Ingrates indeed are those who have said, "God is the Messiah the son of Mary." Say, "Who has any power against God if He had wanted to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother, and all who are on earth!" To God is the sovereignty of heavens and earth and all that is in-between; He creates what He pleases. God is capable of all things. (Jesus and his mother living in other universe)
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Old 30th July 2019, 05:35 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
And what I said;...
...
And,
Would it be possible for you to stop babbling and pay attention to someone besides yourself? Don't repeat yourself incessantly. Answer my questions.
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Old 30th July 2019, 05:37 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I don't think we are conversing with someone who is capable of reasoned discussion...
...or knows what one is. For the past several months he has all but ignored everyone and simply used his threads as a pulpit from which to preach his personal version of Islam.
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Old 30th July 2019, 06:24 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
...or knows what one is. For the past several months he has all but ignored everyone and simply used his threads as a pulpit from which to preach his personal version of Islam.
He's spamming, plain and simple.

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I don't think we are conversing with someone who is capable of reasoned discussion...
Normally such a statement would be against the forum rules, but you have ample evidence to back up your post as not an insult but a demonstrable statement of fact.
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Old 30th July 2019, 12:16 PM   #301
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Speaking of the demand for evidence, I demand evidence of this silliness:

https://deadstate.org/christian-prop...brefreshforce/

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Old 30th July 2019, 12:19 PM   #302
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About that ark myth...

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Old 30th July 2019, 12:22 PM   #303
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No, really, about that plagiarized ark myth.

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Old 30th July 2019, 06:13 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Normally such a statement would be against the forum rules, but you have ample evidence to back up your post as not an insult but a demonstrable statement of fact.
I was careful about that when I wrote the post. It is meant in the purest and kindest of intent, not an insult. And I am no expert in mental issues or religious mania. But there are, indeed, people in this world who are...shall we say...not even tangentially impinging on reality.
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Old 31st July 2019, 05:09 AM   #305
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I'll tell you who SHOULD have demanded proof, the guy sending thousands of dollars to a woman online who was known to be using a face filter.

Chinese vlogger who used filter to look younger caught in live-stream glitch

Quote:
the filter being used by the vlogger stopped working and her real face became visible to her viewers.

She is reported to have noticed only when people who had signed up to her VIP access room started exiting en masse.

Many of her original followers - especially men - are said to have stopped following her and withdrawn their transactions after seeing her true identity.
This kicker is they KNEW she was using a face filter and STILL got pissed when they saw her real face.

Quote:
her fans urged her to show her face and remove her filter but she refused, instead apparently saying: "I can't show my face until I receive gifts worth 100,000 yuan ($11,950). After all, I'm a good-looking host."

Followers began to send her donations with the largest reported to be 40,000 yuan ($5,813, £4,780) during the session.
I'm in the camp that has no sympathy for the men who gave her money. They KNEW it was a performative stream with a digitally manipulated face. They had no information on the extent of the digital manipulation.
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Old 31st July 2019, 09:55 PM   #306
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I missed a couple of pages, was there any "evidence" or is it all copy and paste from a work of fiction?
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Old 1st August 2019, 05:12 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
I missed a couple of pages, was there any "evidence" or is it all copy and paste from a work of fiction?
Nope. Just copypasta and lies.
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Old 1st August 2019, 08:26 AM   #308
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The big question is what to do about reality after all this discussion of mythology:

http://www.fredvanlente.com/cthulhutract/pages/
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Old 1st August 2019, 07:14 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
And;

3:169 Do not count that those who are killed in the sake of God are dead. No, they are alive at their Lord receiving provisions.

3:170 Happy with what God has granted them from His grace, and they rejoice in those who have yet to follow after them. There is no fear upon them nor do they grieve.


5:17 Ingrates indeed are those who have said, "God is the Messiah the son of Mary." Say, "Who has any power against God if He had wanted to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother, and all who are on earth!" To God is the sovereignty of heavens and earth and all that is in-between; He creates what He pleases. God is capable of all things. (Jesus and his mother living in other universe)
51:22 In the heaven is your provision, and what you are promised. (Paradise and hell are both ready and outside the world, in the sky)

The prophets living in Paradise will be summoned to the court as witnesses on the Day of Judgment

77:11 And when the messengers are gathered.

84:8 He will then receive an easy reckoning.
84:9 He will return to his family in joy! (The person who is called from Paradise to the day of judgment will return to Paradise again with joy)

53:13 Indeed, he saw him in another descent.
53:14 At the ultimate point.
53:15 Next to the eternal Paradise.
(Even when the prophet Muhammad lived in the world, he was taken to visit the universe of the Hereafter/ Floor of Lord)

56:7 You will be in three groupings.
56:8 So those on the right; who will be from those on the right?
56:9 Those on the left; who will be from those on the left?
56:10 And those foremost, who will be from those foremost?
(8th verse about peple who after the apocalyptic blessing will enter the paradise, 9th verse about who will enter hell, and the 10th verse talking about the already pioneering group living in Paradise. Thus, the three classes mentioned in verse 7 are completed)

19:93 When all there is in the heavens and the earth will but come to the Gracious as servants.

19:56 Recall in the book Enoch; he was truthful, a prophet.
19:57 We raised him to a high place.
(Enoch is living in Paradise now)
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Old 1st August 2019, 07:30 PM   #310
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Mod WarningThere may be some confusion here among some, if not one, of the posters: This is a DISCUSSION forum.

I just want to be clear on that point. The International Skeptics forum exists for the exchange of ideas, debate, social intercourse, and so on. For those interested in blogging, well, there are other venues for that sort of behavior. Very reasonable places, too, that will let you wax poetically on you favorite thoughts and concepts without the need for interpersonal engagement.

Blogging here, however, is frowned upon. Do so it at your own peril.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 03:24 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Drivel trimmed

Was there a point in all that?

This is not your personal blog. Is there a point where youíre going to engage in honest discussion? All your threads have devolved into you posting a random hunk of religious copypasta and running away. If you did that at blogspot you could at least monetize it and make some cash.
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:45 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- So it is wiser to think that paradise exists.
tl;dr Emre_1974tr thinks Heaven is real because he really, REALLY wishes for it!

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He wishes SUPER hard!
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Old 13th November 2019, 10:34 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
tl;dr Emre_1974tr thinks Heaven is real because he really, REALLY wishes for it!

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


He wishes SUPER hard!
If wishes were fishes, we would never go hungry.
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Old 13th November 2019, 10:38 AM   #314
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
If wishes were fishes, we would never go hungry.


I think what he REALLY wishes for is attention, which is why he posts here.
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