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25th March 2012, 06:27 AM | #721 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Why because the overturning of conventional thought was that agriculture predated the creation of the megaliths?
And that you said something else?
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What is a rope?
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And again, I don't think you even read the article.
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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25th March 2012, 06:28 AM | #722 |
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That is an argument from incredulity and/or an argument from ignorance.
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If you're just saying you don't understand how such structures could be built, fine. You've made that abundantly clear and you don't need to keep saying it. If you're trying to suggest there's some particular alternative explanation which works better than the one we have now, the one that says humans constructed these ancient sites with materials and technology available to them at the time, then to advance the discussion, get to the point. |
25th March 2012, 06:28 AM | #723 |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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25th March 2012, 07:42 AM | #724 |
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Education doesn't have to cost very much except for time. Schooling often costs a great deal. Sometimes they coincide a bit, but often not. Nearly everything I've learned I've learned on my own through reading, thinking, and working on problems. I've had many years of undergrad and grad school, but the most important things that I learned during those years were on my own. Sometimes the topics may have been inspired by reading down for school, but most times not. An education is a life-long adventure. If you want an education, start today. Decide what what you want to learn, be honest about where you stand with the prerequisite skills to begin that study, and start learning the prerequisites. |
25th March 2012, 07:48 AM | #725 |
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25th March 2012, 07:49 AM | #726 |
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25th March 2012, 07:51 AM | #727 |
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25th March 2012, 07:57 AM | #728 |
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I keep pointing him to the simple machines.
This and other articles on the subject specifically mention the large number of flint tools and remnants found there. Tedlazer also repeatedly exaggerates the distance the blocks were moved. |
25th March 2012, 08:22 AM | #729 |
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http://web.archive.org/web/200801190.../photos_3.html
Crack pot alternatives, like block and tackle? Which were not used in the neolithic? |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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25th March 2012, 10:01 AM | #730 |
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After a couple of dozen posts, I still have no idea what point(s) you are attempting to make. Science makes new discoveries or a regular basis; sometimes those discoveries overturn some prior perspective. I have witnessed several of these events in my lifetime. That's what science does! There is no relevance to crackpot physics, crackpot archaeology, or crackpot science of any kind involved. What has been the purpose of your posts here? Are you suggesting that archaeologists are crackpots because they didn't anticipate this new archaeology, or because they do not have instantaneous answers? What is your point -- other than creating mysterious crackpot conjectures about this site?
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It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong. - Richard P. Feynman ξ |
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25th March 2012, 10:18 AM | #731 |
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Did you not view the Wally Wallington video? He's moving huge blocks of stone all by himself, without using rollers, pulleys, or huge crews of ultra-strong "cavemen". As far as technology, he is using rope, rocks and wooden tools that could be built by lashing parts together. All stuff available to any society that had gotten as far as, say, wooden handles on stone tools.
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25th March 2012, 10:22 AM | #732 |
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@tedlazer
What do you suggest Coral Castle brings to the discussion, it being erected with poles, scaffolding, and blocks and tackles, over many years. |
25th March 2012, 10:27 AM | #733 |
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25th March 2012, 10:41 AM | #734 |
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This is worth a read: crackpots who were right. Of course there's a lot more crackpots who were wrong, make no mistake about that. But there's definitely resistance from vested interest in science. There always has been, and always will be. They will call somebody a crackpot if they pose some kind of threat. I thought this an interesting snippet by the way:
"I also wanted write a bit about Robert Chambers who wrote a popular book about evolution before Darwin. He was ridiculed by biologists for his misuse of terminology but the public were won over and he paved the way for acceptance of Darwin’s theory while much of the scientific establishment held on to creationism". I've just read up on Robert Chambers on wikipedia. Very interesting. Even my number one hero Newton was big on creationism, so IMHO it just goes to show that intelligence is no protection from groupthink. |
25th March 2012, 10:47 AM | #735 |
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It could be that we're being set up for the well worn ancient aliens bit. Maybe a foundation is being laid for some magical powers, psi, or psychokinesis conjecture. Or it might be a disgruntled believer in all things woo just taking a couple of shots at the mean old skeptics. Whatever it is, I'm not betting any productive contribution will come from it. |
25th March 2012, 10:56 AM | #736 |
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By a ratio of perhaps tens of thousands to one.
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It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong. - Richard P. Feynman ξ |
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25th March 2012, 01:02 PM | #737 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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25th March 2012, 01:12 PM | #738 |
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I had never seen that before! The ingenuity of people is what is the amazing technology IMO. It never ceases to amaze me how if you take a man who is good at his job and present him with a challenge how often he will find an elegant and effective solution.!!
Kudos to Wally! |
25th March 2012, 01:32 PM | #739 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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25th March 2012, 01:34 PM | #740 |
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Check out Wally Wallington's site for some amateur ideas and demonstrations of the tech required for moving, lifting, and positioning large stones and other objects. This is just one man's off-the-cuff ingenuity.
The people who made these structures were just as clever as we are today, and had hundreds of years of experience working without fancy tech. Don't underestimate our ancestors. ETA: D'oh! too slow... Oh well, the point is made |
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Simple probability tells us that we should expect coincidences, and simple psychology tells us that we'll remember the ones we notice... |
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25th March 2012, 01:34 PM | #741 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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25th March 2012, 06:48 PM | #742 |
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I'm swayed to some extent by the arguments in favour of the over-hunting hypothesis, but it's worth mentioning that climate change was also what allowed those humans to get to the continent.
If A --> B And A --> C it's not surprising that B and C will be correlated. (where A is climate change, B is human migration, and C is climate change) |
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25th March 2012, 07:20 PM | #743 |
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And it is not climate change, it is the rapid shifts in temperatures approximately 8,000-9,000 years ago, the temperatures varied widely over very short time periods, so mega fauna did not always have the time to shift with the temperatures.
Humans came over the bering lang bridge and then much later some of the mega fauna died out. The climate change was already occurring, it was a something that would not normally be called climate that may have led to the death of the mega fauna. |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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25th March 2012, 07:33 PM | #744 |
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25th March 2012, 07:40 PM | #745 |
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here's a picture of the "amazing technology" being used at the Coral Castle site.
and another |
25th March 2012, 07:41 PM | #746 |
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26th March 2012, 05:42 AM | #747 |
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Fair enough. But there has been plenty of climate change in the past. See wiki re ice ages:
"The current ice age, the Pliocene-Quaternary glaciation, started about 2.58 million years ago during the late Pliocene, when the spread of ice sheets in the Northern Hemisphere began. Since then, the world has seen cycles of glaciation with ice sheets advancing and retreating on 40,000- and 100,000-year time scales called glacial periods..." It's worth reading up on. See the two science daily articles that come in positions three and four on the list. Faith based credo, LOL! |
26th March 2012, 06:55 AM | #748 |
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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26th March 2012, 07:22 AM | #749 |
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Because when you have a change in average temperatures of 20 degrees for a century and then swinging another direction for another century it really makes it hard fro some creatures to adapt. Obviously it was just some of them, bears adapted as did the caribou.
The mega fauna that died were not exactly ideal prey species, that is the main reaosn I don't think they were over hunted. ETA: my knowledge is very old and out of date as well. From 1988 |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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26th March 2012, 08:25 AM | #750 |
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How many of the Simple Machines can you spot?
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27th March 2012, 04:48 AM | #751 |
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You may find this article of interest.
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Simple probability tells us that we should expect coincidences, and simple psychology tells us that we'll remember the ones we notice... |
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27th March 2012, 07:11 AM | #752 |
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This bit of wiki isn't bad either: megafauna mass extinctions.
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28th March 2012, 11:58 AM | #753 |
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Why would we dismiss flint tools? You can do damn near anything with flint tools that you can do with metal tools. The primary advantage of metal tools is that they can be made faster and are much easier to maintain than flint. But flint is very hard and a very sharp edge can be put on it (it's better in both respects than bronze).
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28th March 2012, 02:14 PM | #754 |
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Indeed - obsidian, which can make an equally sharp, but less brittle edge, is still used for the sharpest surgical scalpels.
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Simple probability tells us that we should expect coincidences, and simple psychology tells us that we'll remember the ones we notice... |
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28th March 2012, 05:40 PM | #755 |
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Seconded.
Sadly, the usual response from the previously incredulous is "Oh, that's just a simple trick! Anybody could have thought of that!". Practical archaelogy has been a great advance of the last century or so, after a long period of ivory-tower theorising by deeply impractical men. |
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It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150 |
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28th March 2012, 09:52 PM | #756 |
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28th March 2012, 11:33 PM | #757 |
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29th March 2012, 12:18 AM | #758 |
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This is very true. But there's a bit more to it than that. For some reason people seem to like wallowing in mystery. They cling to it. When you get busy with logs and levers and say "Look, you shift a big rock like this", they don't want to know. You show them the simple trick, and they find some reason to say "Nah, they didn't have the tools" or something. Sure, some people will say "Oh gosh, I got it", but some won't. Give it a week or two and they're back prattling on about aliens and Atlantis. They like the crackpot stuff.
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29th March 2012, 10:13 AM | #759 |
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29th March 2012, 01:14 PM | #760 |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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