ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags police issues , police misconduct charges

Reply
Old 15th November 2019, 04:05 AM   #1521
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
 
Dave Rogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 29,950
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
That's exactly it.
You get an offer of a fixed penalty through the post.
If you decline it goes to court where it will be more expensive as the fine could be higher and costs are added.
In this instance maybe the alternative of attending a Sandwich Awareness Course should have been on offer too.

Dave
__________________
Inspiring discussion of Sharknado is not a good sign for the audience expectations of your new high-concept SF movie sequel.

- Myriad
Dave Rogers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 05:32 AM   #1522
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,438
Is it illegal to talk with your mouth full in America?
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 05:50 AM   #1523
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
 
Dave Rogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 29,950
That should be covered on the course.

Dave
__________________
Inspiring discussion of Sharknado is not a good sign for the audience expectations of your new high-concept SF movie sequel.

- Myriad
Dave Rogers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 05:53 AM   #1524
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 86,882
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Yes, but you are (a) Canadian (IIRC) and (b) evidently work in an organisation where abuses of the system are frowned upon, as opposed to a perk of the job.
True on both counts.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 06:01 AM   #1525
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,287
Internal investigation started after cell phone videos shows officer tackling and pinning a 15 year old quadruple amputee to the ground.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ruple-amputee/
__________________
Gobble gobble

Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 15th November 2019 at 07:26 AM.
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 06:24 AM   #1526
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
 
Dave Rogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 29,950
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Internal investigation started after cell phone videos hows officer tackling and pinning a 15 year old quadruple amputee.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ruple-amputee/
I'm guessing the officer ordered him to place both hands on the back of his head with his fingers interlaced but he didn't comply?

Dave
__________________
Inspiring discussion of Sharknado is not a good sign for the audience expectations of your new high-concept SF movie sequel.

- Myriad
Dave Rogers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 06:32 AM   #1527
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 86,882
Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I'm guessing the officer ordered him to place both hands on the back of his head with his fingers interlaced but he didn't comply?

Dave
Maybe he reached for a gun with his stumps.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 08:44 AM   #1528
Blue Mountain
Resident Skeptical Hobbit
 
Blue Mountain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg
Posts: 5,693
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Internal investigation started after cell phone videos shows officer tackling and pinning a 15 year old quadruple amputee to the ground.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ruple-amputee/
Please don't link to the Washington Post. They have an idiotic JavaScript paywall that consistently labels my Firefox browser as being in private mode when it's not. Until they stop doing this I don't want to give them the clicks.

ETA: It works in Chromium, so I can use that to read links to the Washington Post, and I've alerted the WP to the issue with Firefox and Linux.
__________________
The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French)
Canadian or living in Canada? PM me if you want an entry on the list of Canadians on the forum.

Last edited by Blue Mountain; 15th November 2019 at 09:35 AM. Reason: ETA
Blue Mountain is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 08:51 AM   #1529
Wudang
BOFH
 
Wudang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire
Posts: 12,156
https://www.reddit.com/r/news/commen...ed_to/f7jvk73/

Reddit links to something called KOLD
__________________
"Your deepest pools, like your deepest politicians and philosophers, often turn out more shallow than expected." Walter Scott.
Wudang is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 08:58 AM   #1530
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,287
Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
https://www.reddit.com/r/news/commen...ed_to/f7jvk73/

Reddit links to something called KOLD
KOLD is some local news station. Over the air broadcasts stations, both TV and radio, have 4 letter callsigns as required by the FCC.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 10:40 AM   #1531
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 23,800
Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
Please don't link to the Washington Post. They have an idiotic JavaScript paywall that consistently labels my Firefox browser as being in private mode when it's not. Until they stop doing this I don't want to give them the clicks.

ETA: It works in Chromium, so I can use that to read links to the Washington Post, and I've alerted the WP to the issue with Firefox and Linux.
Off topic, but interesting. I always open WaPo in Chrome incognito mode because they can't tell how many times I've visited. They seem to have given up wanting me to turn off an adblocker.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 11:38 AM   #1532
Rolfe
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
 
Rolfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 44,272
The page was fine for me.
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.
Rolfe is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 11:47 AM   #1533
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 21,083
Quote:
Internal investigation started after cell phone videos shows officer tackling and pinning a 15 year old quadruple amputee to the ground.
I should no longer be surprised by the number of things that actually keep happening in real life that would be laughed out of an argument as a hyperbolic strawman if you made them in one, even jokingly.

Like... this is kind of thing you'd make up as a joke in argument about police overreaction.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 11:52 AM   #1534
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,574
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Off topic, but interesting. I always open WaPo in Chrome incognito mode because they can't tell how many times I've visited. They seem to have given up wanting me to turn off an adblocker.
I think that they can, or something like that. Numerous times I have received that dreaded pop-up, "You have exceeded your monthly allowance of free articles...", when I was attempting to read an article using Chrome Incognito.

It's always been accurate too. The notice came when I had exceeded the limit. It seemed to not matter that I was using Chrome Incognito.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 12:00 PM   #1535
bobdroege7
Master Poster
 
bobdroege7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,792
Originally Posted by erlando View Post
"You're under arrest .... for resisting arrest". That's not an escalation?

no, If one is caught breaking the law, the non escalating thing to do is to stop breaking the law.

swearing and insulting the officer is escalating.
__________________
Un-american Jack-booted thug

Graduate of a liberal arts college!

Faster play faster faster play faster
bobdroege7 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 12:02 PM   #1536
CORed
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central City, Colorado, USA
Posts: 9,162
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
That's exactly it.
You get an offer of a fixed penalty through the post.
If you decline it goes to court where it will be more expensive as the fine could be higher and costs are added.
So it's basically the same as a citation in the US, but different terminology. Although in the US (at least in some jurisdictions), the fine if you choose to mail it in is often listed on the citation.
CORed is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 12:05 PM   #1537
CORed
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central City, Colorado, USA
Posts: 9,162
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I think that they can, or something like that. Numerous times I have received that dreaded pop-up, "You have exceeded your monthly allowance of free articles...", when I was attempting to read an article using Chrome Incognito.

It's always been accurate too. The notice came when I had exceeded the limit. It seemed to not matter that I was using Chrome Incognito.
I haven't tried Incognito mode for news sites, but I have found that if I get the "You have exceeded your monthly allowance of free articles..." popup on WaPo, NY Times and most other news sites, clearing cookies and refreshing makes it go away.
CORed is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 12:06 PM   #1538
bobdroege7
Master Poster
 
bobdroege7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,792
Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
No, those are not remotely the same. There are insurmountable differences between fulfilling an universal and constant human need (eating) that many people lack sufficient time for on their way to work and shooting someone.

Beyond that: I am personally unfamiliar with BART. But according to the female narrator there are NO signs saying that eating is against the law. According the article writer, eating and drinking in spite of said laws is commonplace. And then there are shops selling food in the transit station...
Eating is universal and constant?

The shop selling food is outside of BART and you can eat before you enter the BART system.

Just because lots of people break the law is no excuse to break the law in front of an officer.
__________________
Un-american Jack-booted thug

Graduate of a liberal arts college!

Faster play faster faster play faster
bobdroege7 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 03:04 PM   #1539
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,574
Originally Posted by CORed View Post
I have found that if I get the "You have exceeded your monthly allowance of free articles..." popup on WaPo, NY Times and most other news sites, clearing cookies and refreshing makes it go away.
It doesn't work for me. They somehow still "know".


Originally Posted by CORed
I haven't tried Incognito mode for news sites
There are some major American news sites that cannot be read at all using Chrome Incognito. Or more specifically, I should say that you can look at all their article headlines but you can't open and read any article. They know that you are browsing incognito and won't allow you to read unless you subscribe. It states that only paid subscribers can read articles while using an incognito browser.

For example. With your Chrome Incognito go to Los Angeles Times and try to open an article.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 03:42 PM   #1540
The Common Potato
Thinker
 
The Common Potato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: The Scunthorpe Problem
Posts: 138
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It doesn't work for me. They somehow still "know".

For example. With your Chrome Incognito go to Los Angeles Times and try to open an article.
Works okay for me.
The Common Potato is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 03:44 PM   #1541
The Common Potato
Thinker
 
The Common Potato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: The Scunthorpe Problem
Posts: 138
Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
Please don't link to the Washington Post. They have an idiotic JavaScript paywall that consistently labels my Firefox browser as being in private mode when it's not. Until they stop doing this I don't want to give them the clicks.

ETA: It works in Chromium, so I can use that to read links to the Washington Post, and I've alerted the WP to the issue with Firefox and Linux.
From the Gruniad: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...video-teenager
The Common Potato is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 05:15 PM   #1542
Shadowdweller
Muse
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 863
Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Eating is universal and constant?
For those individuals healthy enough not to be on parenteral nutrition or have G-tubes and the like, YES, it is. On average something like 5 times per day here in the US.

Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
The shop selling food is outside of BART and you can eat before you enter the BART system.

Just because lots of people break the law is no excuse to break the law in front of an officer.
Even if the shop is not actually inside the transit terminal, it is a common occurrence here in the real world to find customers within a short vicinity of stores that sell food to be eating food. It is NOT reasonable to expect people to know that food is forbidden on the platform if there is no widely available mechanism by which the law might be communicated to the population - by signs, for example; particularly when the law is rarely/inconsistently enforced and people are seen performing the forbidden act (eating on the platform) every day.
Shadowdweller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 08:29 PM   #1543
bobdroege7
Master Poster
 
bobdroege7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,792
Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
For those individuals healthy enough not to be on parenteral nutrition or have G-tubes and the like, YES, it is. On average something like 5 times per day here in the US.

Even if the shop is not actually inside the transit terminal, it is a common occurrence here in the real world to find customers within a short vicinity of stores that sell food to be eating food. It is NOT reasonable to expect people to know that food is forbidden on the platform if there is no widely available mechanism by which the law might be communicated to the population - by signs, for example; particularly when the law is rarely/inconsistently enforced and people are seen performing the forbidden act (eating on the platform) every day.
Yeah people gotta eat.

BART publishes the rules.

You say there is no widely available mechanism by which the law might be communicated to the population.

How about google?

https://www.bart.gov/sites/default/f...mer%20CofC.pdf
__________________
Un-american Jack-booted thug

Graduate of a liberal arts college!

Faster play faster faster play faster
bobdroege7 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 08:34 PM   #1544
The Norseman
Meandering fecklessly
 
The Norseman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,376
Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Yeah people gotta eat.

BART publishes the rules.

You say there is no widely available mechanism by which the law might be communicated to the population.

How about google?

https://www.bart.gov/sites/default/f...mer%20CofC.pdf
Using that logic, we're wasting huge amounts of money putting up speed limit signs all over the place because those speeds are available on line.
__________________
A government is a body of people usually - notably - ungoverned.
-Shepard Book
The Norseman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 09:19 PM   #1545
bobdroege7
Master Poster
 
bobdroege7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,792
Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Using that logic, we're wasting huge amounts of money putting up speed limit signs all over the place because those speeds are available on line.
Yeah but there are speed limits even where the speed limit isn't posted.

Just because a stretch of road doesn't have a sign telling you the speed limit doesn't mean you can't get a ticket if you go too fast.

And by the way, nuts to the notion there are no signs

"Eating in the paid area is banned and there are multiple signs inside every station saying as much. As a transportation system our concern with eating is related to the cleanliness of our stations and system."

Says the BART General Manager

And lastly ignorance of the law is no excuse.
__________________
Un-american Jack-booted thug

Graduate of a liberal arts college!

Faster play faster faster play faster
bobdroege7 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2019, 11:03 PM   #1546
Planigale
Illuminator
 
Planigale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,286
Originally Posted by erlando View Post
Another "resource officer" that shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near children..:

https://wsvn.com/news/local/broward-...een-on-ground/

Full surveillance video:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


At 0:39 the student can be seen lightly tapping (not kicking) the officer on the back of his leg. Some time passes before the officer grabs the student in a choke hold and throws her to the floor before planting a knee in her back and cuffing her. After pulling her up by the cuffs the officer pushes her into a wall.

Reportedly Cross Creek School is a school for children with emotional or behavioral disabilities.

Again the concept of "resource officer" must be brought into question. Who thought this was a good idea?
I think you misunderstand what the euphemism 'resource officer' means. They are there to kill children. They are constantly on edge prepared to bring down the child who is packing. Unlike other LEO ( I guess) when they go into the kill room they don't avoid shooting the child figure that pops up they have to bring it down without hesitation. He should be recognised for his restraint in not putting three rounds to her centre of mass.

Personally I am glad that my child will not have to go to a school where an armed guard is constantly scrutinising the children ready to shoot them. But I know this is a price US citizens are willing to pay to defend the constitution; indeed it is an object lesson for the pupils in the importance of carrying a weapon and being prepared to kill.
Planigale is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2019, 08:13 AM   #1547
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 24,427
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Internal investigation started after cell phone videos shows officer tackling and pinning a 15 year old quadruple amputee to the ground.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ruple-amputee/

This quote is very telling.
"The Pima County Sheriff’s Department told KOLD that they hadn’t previously been aware of the video and would launch an investigation."

It tells us that under normal circumstances they wouldn't have had any issues at all with a cop tackling a fifteen year old with no arms or legs, but since there was video of the incident they had no choice but to act like they cared.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2019, 12:39 PM   #1548
The Norseman
Meandering fecklessly
 
The Norseman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,376
Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Yeah but there are speed limits even where the speed limit isn't posted.

Just because a stretch of road doesn't have a sign telling you the speed limit doesn't mean you can't get a ticket if you go too fast.
Irrelevant to my point.


Quote:
And by the way, nuts to the notion there are no signs

"Eating in the paid area is banned and there are multiple signs inside every station saying as much. As a transportation system our concern with eating is related to the cleanliness of our stations and system."

Says the BART General Manager
Alright. So if the place was posted that's how it should be. Still doesn't excuse the actions of the 'cop.'



Quote:
And lastly ignorance of the law is no excuse.
lol yeah, unless you're a cop.
__________________
A government is a body of people usually - notably - ungoverned.
-Shepard Book
The Norseman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2019, 02:03 PM   #1549
autumn1971
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,047
Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
no, If one is caught breaking the law, the non escalating thing to do is to stop breaking the law.

swearing and insulting the officer is escalating.
If only there was some useful phrase LEOs could memorize during training. Maybe a reminder that being assaulted with clubs or pelted by rocks may indeed cause contusions and fractures, but verbal outbursts, however belligerent, are incapable of causing bodily harm.

Nah, thatís way too difficult to teach adults.
__________________
'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."'
-The Bard
autumn1971 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2019, 05:15 PM   #1550
bobdroege7
Master Poster
 
bobdroege7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,792
Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Irrelevant to my point.



Alright. So if the place was posted that's how it should be. Still doesn't excuse the actions of the 'cop.'




lol yeah, unless you're a cop.
What actions of the cop do you have a problem with?

He seems pretty calm in the video, didn't beat the muffin eater up. I don't think he did anything wrong, unless you think enforcing the law is doing something wrong.

And he gave the muffin eater a chance to comply, which he didn't take advantage of.

The video shows the second interaction, not the first one, where he told the muffin eater not to eat on the platform.

And what laws do you see the cop breaking?
__________________
Un-american Jack-booted thug

Graduate of a liberal arts college!

Faster play faster faster play faster
bobdroege7 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2019, 05:17 PM   #1551
bobdroege7
Master Poster
 
bobdroege7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,792
Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
If only there was some useful phrase LEOs could memorize during training. Maybe a reminder that being assaulted with clubs or pelted by rocks may indeed cause contusions and fractures, but verbal outbursts, however belligerent, are incapable of causing bodily harm.

Nah, thatís way too difficult to teach adults.
Looks to me like the LEO was taking the abuse from the muffin eater very well.

Looks like he was the adult in the "room" and the muffin eater acting like a spoiled brat.
__________________
Un-american Jack-booted thug

Graduate of a liberal arts college!

Faster play faster faster play faster
bobdroege7 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2019, 08:40 PM   #1552
The Norseman
Meandering fecklessly
 
The Norseman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,376
Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Looks to me like the LEO was taking the abuse from the muffin eater very well.

Looks like he was the adult in the "room" and the muffin eater acting like a spoiled brat.
My apologies I was confused with a different case.
__________________
A government is a body of people usually - notably - ungoverned.
-Shepard Book
The Norseman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2019, 03:48 AM   #1553
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 88,419
Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
no, If one is caught breaking the law, the non escalating thing to do is to stop breaking the law.



swearing and insulting the officer is escalating.
In England the police were using the fact that someone swore when speaking to them as a reason to arrest and the prosecution service to prosecute the person, magistrates then found people guilty. Thankfully our courts overturned that nonsense https://shar.es/a3fnwI Perhaps it time for the USA to do the same?
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2019, 06:50 AM   #1554
bluesjnr
Professional Nemesis for Hire
 
bluesjnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Not where I should be.
Posts: 7,117
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
In England the police were using the fact that someone swore when speaking to them as a reason to arrest and the prosecution service to prosecute the person, magistrates then found people guilty. Thankfully our courts overturned that nonsense https://shar.es/a3fnwI Perhaps it time for the USA to do the same?
Let's not get too high and mighty here, they overturned that specific case on the specific grounds that the swear words were not uttered at the officers but as a part of normal speech, speech which "robust" police officers should not find harassing, alarming or upsetting.

Justice Bean said in his summing up (to make sure the delicate officers had firmer ground going forward) "This is not to say that such words are incapable of causing police officers to experience alarm, distress or harassment." He did not add, "so crack on lads and bear that in mind in future"

You can rest assured that police officers are, nowadays, much more savvy and when hearing such epithets make sure to feign upset and alarm and claim they were being harassed right off the bat. They will cheerfully manufacture the devastating effect such course language has on their Victorian sensibilities as well as act on behalf of anybody else in the vicinity, whether they've complained or not (or not being the usual case). Add in a skewing of the intention of the person swearing to maliciously create an offence and..... "yer nicked". The beauty of the old section 5 public order offence and it's malleability.

The only time you can most definitely verbally abuse a police officer is at a police station whilst in a custody suite as there is no sec. 5 offence one can commit whilst in there. I would advise in advance, should you be considering letting loose at some future point, whilst a guest of the constabulary, that such behaviour is almost guaranteed to attract a vigorous condemnation from any and all offices present for being "verbally uncooperative".
bluesjnr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2019, 07:51 AM   #1555
bobdroege7
Master Poster
 
bobdroege7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,792
Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
My apologies I was confused with a different case.
Some of the other vids posted do indeed show awful police behavior, that I can't defend.
__________________
Un-american Jack-booted thug

Graduate of a liberal arts college!

Faster play faster faster play faster
bobdroege7 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2019, 08:02 AM   #1556
erlando
Graduate Poster
 
erlando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,606
Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
no, If one is caught breaking the law, the non escalating thing to do is to stop breaking the law.

swearing and insulting the officer is escalating.
When inside the about 30 seconds it took for the officer to perceive "resistance" was he insulting the officer?

Again "resisting arrest" is the go-to "**** you" card used by american police.
__________________
"If it can grow, it can evolve" - Eugenie Scott, Ph.D Creationism disproved?
Evolution IS a blind watchmaker
erlando is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2019, 08:07 AM   #1557
erlando
Graduate Poster
 
erlando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,606
Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Eating is universal and constant?

The shop selling food is outside of BART and you can eat before you enter the BART system.

Just because lots of people break the law is no excuse to break the law in front of an officer.
Did you miss the witnesses saying that the police officer walked right past other people eating and drinking coffee on the platform?
__________________
"If it can grow, it can evolve" - Eugenie Scott, Ph.D Creationism disproved?
Evolution IS a blind watchmaker
erlando is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2019, 08:12 AM   #1558
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 88,419
Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Let's not get too high and mighty here, they overturned that specific case on the specific grounds that the swear words were not uttered at the officers but as a part of normal speech, speech which "robust" police officers should not find harassing, alarming or upsetting.



Justice Bean said in his summing up (to make sure the delicate officers had firmer ground going forward) "This is not to say that such words are incapable of causing police officers to experience alarm, distress or harassment." He did not add, "so crack on lads and bear that in mind in future"



You can rest assured that police officers are, nowadays, much more savvy and when hearing such epithets make sure to feign upset and alarm and claim they were being harassed right off the bat. They will cheerfully manufacture the devastating effect such course language has on their Victorian sensibilities as well as act on behalf of anybody else in the vicinity, whether they've complained or not (or not being the usual case). Add in a skewing of the intention of the person swearing to maliciously create an offence and..... "yer nicked". The beauty of the old section 5 public order offence and it's malleability.



The only time you can most definitely verbally abuse a police officer is at a police station whilst in a custody suite as there is no sec. 5 offence one can commit whilst in there. I would advise in advance, should you be considering letting loose at some future point, whilst a guest of the constabulary, that such behaviour is almost guaranteed to attract a vigorous condemnation from any and all offices present for being "verbally uncooperative".
Nope that doesn't sum the case up. In effect the judge said "you must think I was born ******* yesterday if you ******* think I ******* believe you lot don't ******* f and blind all the time." Police can't now use their own offence as grounds.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2019, 10:05 AM   #1559
bluesjnr
Professional Nemesis for Hire
 
bluesjnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Not where I should be.
Posts: 7,117
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Nope that doesn't sum the case up. In effect the judge said "you must think I was born ******* yesterday if you ******* think I ******* believe you lot don't ******* f and blind all the time." Police can't now use their own offence as grounds.
That summation was a word for word copy uttered by the deciding judge. You should note that I never once suggested that a police officer being offended was grounds. Police officers no longer get offended, they are alarmed, distressed and harassed these days.

It is an offence to cause alarm, distress or harassment to anybody, including a police officer, and using foul language is one route to doing so.

Last edited by bluesjnr; 17th November 2019 at 10:45 AM.
bluesjnr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2019, 10:54 AM   #1560
Hercules Rockefeller
Woof!
 
Hercules Rockefeller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,323
Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
If only there was some useful phrase LEOs could memorize during training. Maybe a reminder that being assaulted with clubs or pelted by rocks may indeed cause contusions and fractures, but verbal outbursts, however belligerent, are incapable of causing bodily harm.

Nah, thatís way too difficult to teach adults.

Old YouTube video of the calmest cop ever:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
Quantum physics means that anything can happen at anytime and for no reason. Also, eat plenty of oatmeal, and animals never had a war! - Deepak Chopra
Hercules Rockefeller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:18 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.