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Tags Brett Kavanaugh , Christine Blasey Ford , Congressional hearings , Supreme Court nominees , Trump controversies

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Old 1st October 2018, 03:56 PM   #841
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I'd be much more interested in ABBA's position on Kavanaugh.
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Old 1st October 2018, 03:58 PM   #842
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Take your pick:

- Take a Chance on Me
- The Winner Takes it All
- S.O.S.
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Old 1st October 2018, 04:01 PM   #843
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Hilarious detail from the police interview of the bar fight previously mentioned by a classmate.

Quote:
For his part, speaking to the officers, Mr. Kavanaugh did not want “to say if he threw the ice or not,” the police report said.
Linky.
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Old 1st October 2018, 04:02 PM   #844
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Professor Charles Ludington, a class-mate of Kavanaugh's, has said publicly that Kavanaugh lied under oath about his drinking, and described him as "belligerent and aggressive when drunk".
After last Thursday, I would describe him as "belligerent and aggressive when sober".
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Old 1st October 2018, 04:04 PM   #845
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Professor Charles Ludington, a class-mate of Kavanaugh's, has said publicly that Kavanaugh lied under oath about his drinking, and described him as "belligerent and aggressive when drunk".

BBC

He expects to speak to the FBI about this matter.

No sane system would operate like this. Politically appointed judges: what sort of crazy idea is that?
All of these witnesses are professors with PhDs.
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Old 1st October 2018, 04:09 PM   #846
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Sorry Joe. I really dislike hypocrisy is all.
//slight hijack, if anyone asks for a spin-off into a new thread I won't be offended//

I get that I come across as something of a hypocrisy apologist at times, but the last thing I want to do is defend it as a concept.

I'm just tired of it being the only talking point in political discussions because all it does is score points for one of the sides, it doesn't address or fix any actual issues. We can scream hypocrisy at each other all day and when we're done the problems are still there and we haven't put any way of fixing them on the table.

Essentially I see the focus on hypocrisy as functionally having turned too many discussions into nothing but a light version of Bob's "Ideological Purity" fetish, where being untrue to some larger ideal is a greater sin than being wrong or bad or evil on any objective sense. It's essentially the same thing except in degree.

I don't like hypocrisy, I'm just tired of it being the only sin the internet recognizes.
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Old 1st October 2018, 04:15 PM   #847
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Mitch McConnell says Senate will vote on Kavanaugh this week

CNN: https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-ne...7e04a996ce5dd5

Sad part is we could have voted last week, vote now, vote next week, next month, or next year and within a metaphysical certainty it will still be along party lines.

As angry as this whole thing as made me, I'm angrier about how little it matters.
The longer it takes, the more calls and emails these guys are going to have pouring into their offices. And more incidents like this are going to occur:

Bob Corker told two sexual assault survivors who were questioning him about Kavanaugh, “I know this is fun for y’all.” It's at minute ~1:45 when Corker reaches his car.

First he panders then he can't help himself questioning their sincerity. Notice that was right when he was getting in his car so they couldn't respond.
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Old 1st October 2018, 04:18 PM   #848
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I don't like hypocrisy, I'm just tired of it being the only sin the internet recognizes.
I know, I know. I just felt like throwing you under the bus there, if that's ok with you!
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Old 1st October 2018, 04:24 PM   #849
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Originally Posted by sylvan8798 View Post
After last Thursday, I would describe him as "belligerent and aggressive when sober".
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Old 1st October 2018, 04:27 PM   #850
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
//slight hijack, if anyone asks for a spin-off into a new thread I won't be offended//

I get that I come across as something of a hypocrisy apologist at times, but the last thing I want to do is defend it as a concept.

I'm just tired of it being the only talking point in political discussions because all it does is score points for one of the sides, it doesn't address or fix any actual issues. We can scream hypocrisy at each other all day and when we're done the problems are still there and we haven't put any way of fixing them on the table.

Essentially I see the focus on hypocrisy as functionally having turned too many discussions into nothing but a light version of Bob's "Ideological Purity" fetish, where being untrue to some larger ideal is a greater sin than being wrong or bad or evil on any objective sense. It's essentially the same thing except in degree.

I don't like hypocrisy, I'm just tired of it being the only sin the internet recognizes.
I do believe you are in false equivalency territory here. Not that the Democrats are never hypocritical, obviously they are. But the GOP has taken hypocrisy to historically towering heights defending all things Trump.
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Old 1st October 2018, 04:29 PM   #851
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I do believe you are in false equivalency territory here. Not that the Democrats are never hypocritical, obviously they are. But the GOP has taken hypocrisy to historically towering heights defending all things Trump.
I never said anything about how much either "side" was hypocritical or which side was more hypocritical.

Not... everything... is... about... awarding... points... to... one... of... the... sides.
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Old 1st October 2018, 04:32 PM   #852
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
Hilarious detail from the police interview of the bar fight previously mentioned by a classmate.

Quote:
For his part, speaking to the officers, Mr. Kavanaugh did not want “to say if he threw the ice or not,” the police report said.
Linky.
Seems like Kav didn't like to take responsibility for his actions even then.
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Old 1st October 2018, 04:38 PM   #853
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I never said anything about how much either "side" was hypocritical or which side was more hypocritical.

Not... everything... is... about... awarding... points... to... one... of... the... sides.
And not everything is about "both sides are equally bad, always".

Some times one side is just worse than the other. And I think we're in the middle of one of those times right now.
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Old 1st October 2018, 04:44 PM   #854
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
"Honorable members of the committee, my name if Brett Kavanaugh. In recent days there have been allegations against myself that I sexually assaulted a number of women during my student days. I deny these allegations. I will be the first to admit that, during those years, I did drink heavily, to the point of making myself sick. It was a juvenile and irresponsible behaviour that I've thankfully grown out of. It is possible that, at some point, I blacked out, and that I did or said things that I today do not remember. I have never, to my knowledge, sexually assaulted anyone, but it is possible, if perhaps unlikely, that I have said or done reprehensible things while under the influence, and which I do not recall. If that is the case, then I would be horrified at the revelation, and would offer my sincere apologies to anyone that I would have hurt. In any event, I hope that turning my life around since those days shows that I am sincere in my dedication to acting responsibly in a civil, adult world, and that I am still worthy of your consideration. I leave my fate in your hands."

I just wrote that off the top of my head. Saying that wouldn't have taken 45 minutes, and would sound a lot more responsible and respectable.

Actually, I don't think that Kavanaugh could have "got away" with a statement to that effect. Why not? Because to have admitted to drinking to a blackout/non-remembering state when at high school would effectively mean that it would be impossible for him to refute Dr Ford's claim (and would additionally lend further credence to her claim).

I very strongly suspect that Kavanaugh and his (no doubt numerous and highly-paid) legal and PR advisers would have considered every possible way to proceed, including taking this sort of line. But in the end, if his overriding concern was to save his own skin and get onto the SC with his reputation relatively intact, then there was no way in practice in which he could admit to drinking to such excess at that point in his life.

I suspect that he and his team realised that the only possible way to try to spin things before the Senate Committee was to outright deny that he'd ever drunk to a blackout/non-recall state, and hope that any contradictory testimonies or accounts could be batted off in some way or other. I suspect that a deliberate decision was taken to "grey-area" this issue ("sure, I drank beer - sometimes a few too many beers"): this - for Kavanaugh - would have the proposed dual effect of blurring the line (no pun intended....) on just how drunk he actually was in the habit of becoming, plus appealing to the committee and the wider watching public along the lines of "oh well that sounds like I drank when I was that age, and I never sexually assaulted anyone in the way described by Dr Ford, so.....".

I'd reiterate that (in my opinion) nothing Kavanaugh said in front of the committee last week was in any way unrehearsed or un-strategised. I would find it improbable to the point of inconceivable that he wouldn't have spent many, many hours with legal and PR advisers, working out his optimum strategy. When he stated (pompously and, again, self-righteously) that he'd written his statement all by himself the previous evening and hadn't shown it to anyone else, well that might well be totally accurate. But that doesn't preclude him from (for example) having had detailed notes from numerous consultations and strategy meetings in front of him, and having written the speech as nothing more (or less) than an articulation of the conclusions they'd all previously reached.......
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Old 1st October 2018, 04:53 PM   #855
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Televangelist Bryan Fischer saying the "demons of hell" are out to get Kavanaugh.

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Old 1st October 2018, 04:54 PM   #856
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Actually, I don't think that Kavanaugh could have "got away" with a statement to that effect. Why not? Because to have admitted to drinking to a blackout/non-remembering state when at high school would effectively mean that it would be impossible for him to refute Dr Ford's claim (and would additionally lend further credence to her claim).

I very strongly suspect that Kavanaugh and his (no doubt numerous and highly-paid) legal and PR advisers would have considered every possible way to proceed, including taking this sort of line. But in the end, if his overriding concern was to save his own skin and get onto the SC with his reputation relatively intact, then there was no way in practice in which he could admit to drinking to such excess at that point in his life.

I suspect that he and his team realised that the only possible way to try to spin things before the Senate Committee was to outright deny that he'd ever drunk to a blackout/non-recall state, and hope that any contradictory testimonies or accounts could be batted off in some way or other. I suspect that a deliberate decision was taken to "grey-area" this issue ("sure, I drank beer - sometimes a few too many beers"): this - for Kavanaugh - would have the proposed dual effect of blurring the line (no pun intended....) on just how drunk he actually was in the habit of becoming, plus appealing to the committee and the wider watching public along the lines of "oh well that sounds like I drank when I was that age, and I never sexually assaulted anyone in the way described by Dr Ford, so.....".

I'd reiterate that (in my opinion) nothing Kavanaugh said in front of the committee last week was in any way unrehearsed or un-strategised. I would find it improbable to the point of inconceivable that he wouldn't have spent many, many hours with legal and PR advisers, working out his optimum strategy. When he stated (pompously and, again, self-righteously) that he'd written his statement all by himself the previous evening and hadn't shown it to anyone else, well that might well be totally accurate. But that doesn't preclude him from (for example) having had detailed notes from numerous consultations and strategy meetings in front of him, and having written the speech as nothing more (or less) than an articulation of the conclusions they'd all previously reached.......
And here Mitchell complained that Ford was prepped by the Democrats.
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Old 1st October 2018, 05:02 PM   #857
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
<snip>

I don't like hypocrisy, I'm just tired of it being the only sin the internet recognizes.

It's not.

If nothing else, perjury and sexual assault come to mind.
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Old 1st October 2018, 05:05 PM   #858
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
<snip>

I'd reiterate that (in my opinion) nothing Kavanaugh said in front of the committee last week was in any way unrehearsed or un-strategised. I would find it improbable to the point of inconceivable that he wouldn't have spent many, many hours with legal and PR advisers, working out his optimum strategy.

<snip>

I suspect that's one reason they decided to stifle Rachel Mitchell. Her questions were not scripted, and they were requiring Kavanaugh to extemporize, which obviously wasn't going very well.
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Old 1st October 2018, 05:16 PM   #859
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Televangelist Bryan Fischer saying the "demons of hell" are out to get Kavanaugh.

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I dunno bout you, but I could see the hellfire in Ford's eyes! They was blazin' hot like you see in them scary horror movies like Freddy Kruger! And that lady senater, Rosbu..Robuh...Rashashanah...whatever...why dinnit she never anser Brett's qeusttion bout her blackin out frum drinkin? Cuz she's EVE! Like all them there wimmen who got poor Adam throwed outta Paradise! Theres a reason EVEL is spelled with the name EVE in it!!!
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Old 1st October 2018, 05:23 PM   #860
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
I'd reiterate that (in my opinion) nothing Kavanaugh said in front of the committee last week was in any way unrehearsed or un-strategised. I would find it improbable to the point of inconceivable that he wouldn't have spent many, many hours with legal and PR advisers, working out his optimum strategy. .......
I think when he asked Sheldon Whitehouse what HE drank, and then pressed Amy Klobuchar on whether SHE had ever blacked out from drinking that those couldn't have been part of a thought-out strategy. They were jaw-droppingly inappropriate and hopefully not something he would have ever allowed in his own courtroom. Imagine a defendant on the stand suddenly asking the prosecutor "have YOU ever had too much to drink?" It would be irrelevant and inappropriate, someone would object, and the judge would sustain it.
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Old 1st October 2018, 05:35 PM   #861
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It seems like the gruel is getting thinner.
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Old 1st October 2018, 05:43 PM   #862
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
No sane system would operate like this. Politically appointed judges: what sort of crazy idea is that?

How do they do it elsewhere? Aren't judges in most of the European and descendants world politically appointed? We have elected judges at many state and most local levels. which is even nuttier.
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Old 1st October 2018, 05:46 PM   #863
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Meadmaker, who is a decent bloke more or less, has indeed made the first claim. I'll give you that.

In addition to being an idiot and functionally insane, apparently I also am not very good at explanations, because, no, I didn't.
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Old 1st October 2018, 05:57 PM   #864
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
If this impacts the midterms, the GOP Senators may be wishing they had handled this better.
Or, they might be jumping for joy that they handled it just right.

After 2016, I'm giving up on my ability to read the electorate, although to be fair to myself, over the weekend before the election, and especially on the morning of the election, I had this sinking feeling that Clinton had managed to throw it away, so when it became clear that Trump would be president, it wasn't a total bolt from the blue the way it must have been for so many other people.

The elections of 2016 should have been a sign to an awful lot of people that they don't understand the average American voter.

I am not certain, because voters confuse me, but I think this is playing very well for the Republicans. Hugh Hewitt (a right wing talk show host, more sane than Hannity/Limbaugh/etc) has been using the term "blue bubble" a lot lately. It basically refers to a bunch of Democrats talking to each other, not paying attention to real people, basically a left wing echo chamber. Democrats might be just as surprised as they were in 2016, or as Republicans were in 1998.

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Old 1st October 2018, 06:10 PM   #865
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I never said anything about how much either "side" was hypocritical or which side was more hypocritical.

Not... everything... is... about... awarding... points... to... one... of... the... sides.
Ok, ok but... how many points should you get for taking that position?
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Old 1st October 2018, 06:12 PM   #866
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Actually, I don't think that Kavanaugh could have "got away" with a statement to that effect. Why not? Because to have admitted to drinking to a blackout/non-remembering state when at high school would effectively mean that it would be impossible for him to refute Dr Ford's claim (and would additionally lend further credence to her claim).
That was my point: by doing so; by saying that he can't know for sure and by owning to his past excesses he ends up looking better than with the 45 minute tirade he went on last week; especially if you add the suggested support for victims of sexual assault that another postr mentioned.

Quote:
I very strongly suspect that Kavanaugh and his (no doubt numerous and highly-paid) legal and PR advisers would have considered every possible way to proceed, including taking this sort of line. But in the end, if his overriding concern was to save his own skin and get onto the SC with his reputation relatively intact, then there was no way in practice in which he could admit to drinking to such excess at that point in his life.
Yes, but in the end it made him look terrible.
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Old 1st October 2018, 06:13 PM   #867
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And here Mitchell complained that Ford was prepped by the Democrats.
Yeah but she's on the wrong side. And a woman. So it's different.
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Old 1st October 2018, 06:14 PM   #868
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Ok, ok but... how many points should you get for taking that position?
Well you see since I'm not a member of one of the tribes, my points go back into the pot and are awarded in the event of sudden death overtime.
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Old 1st October 2018, 06:14 PM   #869
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
After 2016, I'm giving up on my ability to read the electorate, although to be fair to myself, over the weekend before the election, and especially on the morning of the election, I had this sinking feeling that Clinton had managed to throw it away, so when it became clear that Trump would be president, it wasn't a total bolt from the blue the way it must have been for so many other people.

The elections of 2016 should have been a sign to an awful lot of people that they don't understand the average American voter.
I knew Clinton's chances were sharply diminished when the FBI made their announcement in late October.

Do you mean the elections of 2016 where majority votes were not for Republicans but Republicans got in anyway? Those people who don't understand the voter?
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Old 1st October 2018, 06:22 PM   #870
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
I knew Clinton's chances were sharply diminished when the FBI made their announcement in late October.

Do you mean the elections of 2016 where majority votes were not for Republicans but Republicans got in anyway? Those people who don't understand the voter?
Yes. That election. Over in a "guess the electoral college" thread, there were almost zero Trump guesses. My own guess was Clinton with somewhere around 290 or 300. Or was it more? I don't like to think about it. I was sure that it wouldn't be a squeaker. She would win handily.
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Old 1st October 2018, 06:33 PM   #871
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Did anyone witness my client committing a crime?"
Chad; "I did!"
"Well what did he do?"
Chad; "he refused to defuse a situation and my friend ended up getting arrested!"
"brett got arrested?"
Chad: "No, someone else!"
"thanks "Chad""
You keep saying that hilighted part but the actual story is that he *escalated* the situation, threw a beer in someone's face, and started the fight.
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Old 1st October 2018, 06:46 PM   #872
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Originally Posted by sylvan8798 View Post
I think when he asked Sheldon Whitehouse what HE drank, and then pressed Amy Klobuchar on whether SHE had ever blacked out from drinking that those couldn't have been part of a thought-out strategy. They were jaw-droppingly inappropriate and hopefully not something he would have ever allowed in his own courtroom. Imagine a defendant on the stand suddenly asking the prosecutor "have YOU ever had too much to drink?" It would be irrelevant and inappropriate, someone would object, and the judge would sustain it.
It's all about the partisan fight. Few people are discussing how incompetent he came across as.
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Old 1st October 2018, 06:46 PM   #873
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Originally Posted by phunk View Post
You keep saying that hilighted part but the actual story is that he *escalated* the situation, threw a beer in someone's face, and started the fight.
Literally quoting Chad.

“On one of the last occasions I purposely socialized with Brett, I witnessed him respond to a semi-hostile remark, not by defusing the situation.”

Chad wanted him to defuse the situation.

What a Yale douche
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Old 1st October 2018, 06:51 PM   #874
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
All of these witnesses are professors with PhDs.
See_ just goes to show its the democrat elite conspiring against him.

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Old 1st October 2018, 06:57 PM   #875
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One problem I have with other people (classmates, friends) trying to parse whether he was ever blackout drunk is that others would not know this unless he had indicated to them afterwards that he could not remember the night before. They would not know by observation at the time.
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Old 1st October 2018, 06:58 PM   #876
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Literally quoting Chad.

“On one of the last occasions I purposely socialized with Brett, I witnessed him respond to a semi-hostile remark, not by defusing the situation.”

Chad wanted him to defuse the situation.

What a Yale douche
It's weird that you put a period after the word situation, when this is the ACTUAL quote:

Quote:
On one of the last occasions I purposely socialized with Brett, I witnessed him respond to a semi-hostile remark, not by defusing the situation, but by throwing his beer in the man’s face and starting a fight that ended with one of our mutual friends in jail.
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Old 1st October 2018, 07:03 PM   #877
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Police questioned Kavanaugh after bar fight in 1985

Quote:
In the New Haven, Connecticut, police department report, a man named Dom Cozzolino said Kavanaugh had thrown ice on him and Kavanaugh's friend Chris Dudley had thrown a glass that hit him in the ear.

"The argument between the two started when Mr. Cozzolino stated that Brett Kavanaugh threw ice at him for some unknown reason and he then got hit in the ear with a glass," the report says.

Dudley denied the allegations, according to the report, "and Mr. Kavanaugh didn't (want) to say if he threw the ice or not. "
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Old 1st October 2018, 07:05 PM   #878
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Originally Posted by phunk View Post
It's weird that you put a period after the word situation, when this is the ACTUAL quote:
Yeah, I did not want to embarrass you because I accurately quoted the actual statement while the word “escalated” did not appear, despite the fact you put it in quotes.

Bold post tho.
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Old 1st October 2018, 07:06 PM   #879
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Yeah, I did not want to embarrass you because I accurately quoted the actual statement while the word “escalated” did not appear, despite the fact you put it in quotes.

Bold post tho.
I put it in quotes? When was that?

No, you didn't accurately quote the statement. You cut it in half and left out the entire point of what he said.
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Old 1st October 2018, 07:12 PM   #880
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Yeah, I did not want to embarrass you because I accurately quoted the actual statement while the word “escalated” did not appear, despite the fact you put it in quotes.

Bold post tho.
LOL. Do you not know what "escalation" means?

Here's a hint: Throwing a beer in someone's face qualifies as an "escalation".

So now you know.
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