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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Andrew Bolt , autism , environmental activists , Greta Thunberg

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Old 24th September 2019, 08:41 AM   #881
Matthew Best
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It isn't about taking her seriously. It's about not putting her in the spotlight. She is a child. She has no accomplishments. That is no sin, almost no 16 year old in the world does, but you don't put someone like that in the spotlight. It's invariably bad for them. The seriousness of her opinions isn't relevant. And you cannot tell me that her perspective is in any way unique, that she has something to say that no adult is saying. So why her? It's child exploitation.
Ignore her then!
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Old 24th September 2019, 08:43 AM   #882
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
And yet:

"When I told my parents about my plans they werenít very fond of it. They did not support the idea of school striking and they said that if I were to do this I would have to do it completely by myself and with no support from them."

"My parents were as far from climate activists as possible before I made them aware of the situation."
I know you think you refuted me, but you didn't. What effect do you think it has on a child when a parent gives the child the reigns, lets them basically take charge? Do you think that's good for the child? Do you think that doesn't have any effect on the development of the child? In that situation, the parent isn't actually out of the equation, they're just moulding the child in a different manner. And not a healthy one.
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Old 24th September 2019, 08:44 AM   #883
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Ignore her then!
How will me ignoring her get her out of the spotlight? That doesn't suffice.
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Old 24th September 2019, 08:47 AM   #884
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You're (in part) providing the spotlight by going on and on about someone you claim no-one should pay any attention to.
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Old 24th September 2019, 08:49 AM   #885
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And BTW, she has been very much moulded by her parents. How do you think she got this crippling anxiety about the climate, which she had long before she turned 16? Her parents have basically inflicted a neurosis on her.
Do you have any evidence for this claim?
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Old 24th September 2019, 08:49 AM   #886
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I know you think you refuted me, but you didn't.
Yes, I did. You said "How do you think she got this crippling anxiety about the climate, which she had long before she turned 16? Her parents have basically inflicted a neurosis on her."

And I pointed out that it was not from her parents. That's a refutation.

You're welcome.
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Old 24th September 2019, 08:54 AM   #887
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I know you think you refuted me, but you didn't. What effect do you think it has on a child when a parent gives the child the reigns, lets them basically take charge? Do you think that's good for the child? Do you think that doesn't have any effect on the development of the child? In that situation, the parent isn't actually out of the equation, they're just moulding the child in a different manner. And not a healthy one.
I was busily typing that this would be your response but went back to check something, only to find you'd made it. Wild claim refuted is followed by a desperate attempt to save face.
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Old 24th September 2019, 08:56 AM   #888
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Yes, I did. You said "How do you think she got this crippling anxiety about the climate, which she had long before she turned 16? Her parents have basically inflicted a neurosis on her."

And I pointed out that it was not from her parents. That's a refutation.

You're welcome.
You don't seem to understand how parenting actually works. The information doesn't have to come directly from the parents. How the parents react to that information will guide the child just as much, of not more, than the information itself. And what the parents did is basically tell her that all her fears were right, that she was correct to worry and obsess about this, that it should dominate her life. And so it has.
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:00 AM   #889
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
You don't seem to understand how parenting actually works. The information doesn't have to come directly from the parents. How the parents react to that information will guide the child just as much, of not more, than the information itself. And what the parents did is basically tell her that all her fears were right, that she was correct to worry and obsess about this, that it should dominate her life. And so it has.
You don't seem to understand how a discussion on a forum works.

You know that I literally quoted what you said, and refuted it, right?

Now you're rushing to move the goalposts somewhere else, which I totally understand.
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:04 AM   #890
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And what the parents did is basically tell her that all her fears were right, that she was correct to worry and obsess about this, that it should dominate her life.
If she has Asperger's, the parents would only have needed to tell her that her fears were justified by the facts. Worrying and obsessing about it to the point where it dominates her life would then stem from her condition, as it so often does; and if it hadn't been climate change, it would have been something else. By your argument I'm a bad parent for reading my son Thomas the Tank Engine stories. At least Greta's obsessing about something in a way that might actually do some good on a global scale.

Dave
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:08 AM   #891
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
If she has Asperger's, the parents would only have needed to tell her that her fears were justified by the facts. Worrying and obsessing about it to the point where it dominates her life would then stem from her condition, as it so often does; and if it hadn't been climate change, it would have been something else.
That's not a given at all. Aspies often develop very strong interests in some narrow subject, but it doesn't have to be something which causes them anxiety.

Quote:
By your argument I'm a bad parent for reading my son Thomas the Tank Engine stories.
If Thomas the Tank Engine were traumatizing your son, then yes, you would be a bad parent for continuing to read them to your son. I suspect it's not, but you're in a better position to evaluate that than me.

Quote:
At least Greta's obsessing about something in a way that might actually do some good on a global scale.
And this is the justification for basically sacrificing her.
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:09 AM   #892
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
You don't seem to understand how a discussion on a forum works.

You know that I literally quoted what you said,
Correct.

Quote:
and refuted it, right?
Incorrect.

Quote:
Now you're rushing to move the goalposts somewhere else, which I totally understand.
No, I don't think you do.
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:14 AM   #893
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That's not a given at all. Aspies often develop very strong interests in some narrow subject, but it doesn't have to be something which causes them anxiety.
Not always, but it's not generally open to choice or revision whether it causes them anxiety. And one thing more or less guaranteed to make it worse is trying to prevent them following those interests.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
If Thomas the Tank Engine were traumatizing your son, then yes, you would be a bad parent for continuing to read them to your son. I suspect it's not, but you're in a better position to evaluate that than me.
No need to continue. I read them to him when he was at an appropriate age to have them read to him, and stopped long ago. Many years on, they still rule his life.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And this is the justification for basically sacrificing her.
No, just an observation. Her parents, it seems to me, were simply honest to her; apparently they should have lied to her about global warming being real, or pretended governments were actually doing something effective about it.

Dave
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:23 AM   #894
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Correct.

Incorrect.

No, I don't think you do.
You're adorable.
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:33 AM   #895
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That's not a given at all. Aspies often develop very strong interests in some narrow subject, but it doesn't have to be something which causes them anxiety.
You began by suggesting they foisted this interest upon her, now you're saying they failed to deter it? And all of this based on your interpretation of her mental condition?

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And this is the justification for basically sacrificing her.
They 'sacrificed her'? Dear FSM. Looks like the child protection people in Sweden should take action.

From where I sit, however, she seems to be doing pretty well.
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:38 AM   #896
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It's obviously a generational thing...

It is extremely likely that Greta knows more about Climate change than anyone ever did at her age: this generation has grown up with fast access to massive knowledge and easy means to connect to experts.

Older generations should be very careful with how they treat "kids" these days: we usually don't even known about the things that we might need to know about.
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:40 AM   #897
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Not always, but it's not generally open to choice or revision whether it causes them anxiety.
It's open to a lot of modification.

Quote:
And one thing more or less guaranteed to make it worse is trying to prevent them following those interests.
Not putting her on a global stage doesn't equate with stifling her interests. Hell, making her go to school like a normal kid doesn't equate with stifling her interests either.

Quote:
No need to continue. I read them to him when he was at an appropriate age to have them read to him, and stopped long ago. Many years on, they still rule his life.
And that's only a bad thing if they impact him negatively.

Thunberg is being impacted negatively.

Quote:
No, just an observation. Her parents, it seems to me, were simply honest to her; apparently they should have lied to her about global warming being real, or pretended governments were actually doing something effective about it.

Dave
False dichotomy. You don't have to lie. But you don't have to flatter this idea that she's doomed. She isn't. Climate change won't ruin her life. But she thinks it will:
https://twitter.com/Cam_Cawthorne/st...23166107295746
Unless she's acting (which is a whole different problem), then that is a traumatized child. And yeah, her parents are responsible for that.
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:41 AM   #898
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Yeah, I noticed that Dinesh DíSouza was making some ridiculous parallel with Nazi propaganda and plaited hair. See the left and the Nazis are the same!
Strange how a teenage girl scares so many people.
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:43 AM   #899
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
You began by suggesting they foisted this interest upon her, now you're saying they failed to deter it? And all of this based on your interpretation of her mental condition?
No. Based upon her own representation. She's saying her childhood was stolen. That's a pretty big deal. Unless she's lying, then she's been traumatized.

Quote:
From where I sit, however, she seems to be doing pretty well.
She claims otherwise. Is she lying?
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:43 AM   #900
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I read a couple of days ago she says she can see carbon dioxide.

I'm sorry, but Lol
Citation Required.
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:44 AM   #901
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Trump:

Originally Posted by @realDonaldTrump
She seems like a very happy young girl looking forward to a bright and wonderful future. So nice to see!
https://twitter.com/wired/status/1176166230425780224
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:45 AM   #902
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I think I'll stick to listening to scientists.
And then ignoring what they say when it conflicts with your opinions.
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:46 AM   #903
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
She's just a kid, you can't blame her. Blame the people who called her to come speak instead of a scientist. They shouldn't put her in the spotlight like this, it's child exploitation.
And if it had been a scientist you'd have found some reason to ignore them.
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:46 AM   #904
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
The man knows how to troll, there's no denying.
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:47 AM   #905
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Right wingers: "This is all wrong. Thunberg shouldn't be up there. She should be back in school on the other side of the ocean."

Thunberg: "This is all wrong. I shouldn't be up here. I should be back in school on the other side of the ocean."

Yet somehow they seem to think they're disagreeing with her.
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:49 AM   #906
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
The man knows how to troll, there's no denying.

A master.
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:49 AM   #907
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
The man knows how to troll, there's no denying.
I dont know, I think he stole it
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:54 AM   #908
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
And if it had been a scientist you'd have found some reason to ignore them.
What exactly do you think not ignoring them consists of? Seriously, what is it you expect me to do? Revert to a 14th century agrarian lifestyle? Give up my car and walk everywhere? Donate all my money to Amazon reforestation efforts? Buy a Prius so I can emit smug?

Or is what you really want for me to vote Democrat?
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:56 AM   #909
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Right wingers: "This is all wrong. Thunberg shouldn't be up there. She should be back in school on the other side of the ocean."

Thunberg: "This is all wrong. I shouldn't be up here. I should be back in school on the other side of the ocean."

Yet somehow they seem to think they're disagreeing with her.
The tell here is that it's within Thunberg's power to go back to school on the other side of the ocean, if she so chooses.
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:57 AM   #910
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Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood View Post
I dont know, I think he stole it
I hadn't noticed that before, but that makes it even better.
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Old 24th September 2019, 10:15 AM   #911
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And BTW, she has been very much moulded by her parents. How do you think she got this crippling anxiety about the climate, which she had long before she turned 16? Her parents have basically inflicted a neurosis on her.
Yes because there's no reason to worry about climate change. Worrying about climate change so much that one actively agitates for action to avert, or at least mitigate, the negative effects of climate change is evidence of a "neurosis".

I should note here that Sweden, where she's from, is one of the countries that has warmed up almost twice as much as the global average. The effects of global warming are felt here right now.
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Old 24th September 2019, 10:19 AM   #912
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Yes because there's no reason to worry about climate change.
Yet more false dichotomies. Is that ploy ever going to get old?
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Old 24th September 2019, 10:26 AM   #913
Skeptical Greg
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There is a difference between worry and concern..

Worrying never changes anything.. Of course concern, unless acted upon, doesn't change anything either...
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Old 24th September 2019, 10:29 AM   #914
Matthew Best
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Also, campaigning has never had any effect on anything whatsoever.
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Old 24th September 2019, 10:41 AM   #915
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Also, campaigning has never had any effect on anything whatsoever.
Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Presumably responsible and competent campaigners -
- will have some clear idea of the goal they're trying to achieve
- will have some way to measure progress towards that goal
- will have some way to measure the effectiveness of their campaign in making progress
- will have some plan in mind for what to do if they're not measuring any progress from their campaign

Whether you're selling time-shares, or sugar cereal, or public policy, there's more to a successful campaign than a simple cargo-cult, "campaigning works, so our campaign will work!"
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Old 24th September 2019, 10:58 AM   #916
The Great Zaganza
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Ms. Thunberg has one disqualifying attribute: she is from Europe.
Since US = no.1, any criticism can be safely ignored.
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Old 24th September 2019, 11:03 AM   #917
Skeptical Greg
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This may have already been posted, but I thought it was pretty funny..

Headline read :

Greta Thunberg turns Trump's attack back on him

As if this was a Trump beat down..

Attack? Give me a break..

What we actually get is:

Trump very generously says in a Tweet:

Quote:
“She seems like a very happy young girl looking forward to a bright and wonderful future."
While Thunberg changes her Tweety bio to read:

Quote:
“A very happy young girl looking forward to a bright and wonderful future.”
Isn't that plagiarism ?
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Old 24th September 2019, 11:26 AM   #918
ThatGuy11200
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
This may have already been posted, but I thought it was pretty funny..

Headline read :

Greta Thunberg turns Trump's attack back on him

As if this was a Trump beat down..

Attack? Give me a break..

What we actually get is:

Trump very generously says in a Tweet:



While Thunberg changes her Tweety bio to read:



Isn't that plagiarism ?
No. That's mockery.
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Old 24th September 2019, 11:47 AM   #919
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How 16-year-old Greta Thunberg’s rise could backfire on environmentalists

There are also lots of observers expressing general alarm at what they see as an indoctrinated child being coerced by adults to make their political arguments with her youth as a shield from any criticism.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/24/how-...entalists.html
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Old 24th September 2019, 11:52 AM   #920
The Great Zaganza
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Stupid narrative.
Greta isn't exploited, and she will have to spend far more time on what's left of the Earth than any "handlers".

Just because so many people can't think for themselves doesn't mean a sixteen year old girl can't.
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