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Old 21st November 2022, 11:48 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Sure they can. They're wrong all the time, and the nation muddles on. They were wrong on 9/11, and it turns out we could afford it. They were wrong at the Boston Marathon, and we could afford it. They were wrong on Jan 6, and we could afford it. Hell, someone even managed to wrong-foot the Secret Service and put a bullet in a president, and we could afford it.
Makes me think of an alternate history in which Bobby Kennedy doesn't get shot. Nixon loses to another Kennedy. Vietnam ends differently and. . .
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Old 22nd November 2022, 10:29 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
The nightmare scenario.

Trump gets tried for Jan.6 or tampering with the Georgia count and gets convicted.

Before sentencing he starts whipping up his minions and tells them they have to take their country back by storming the courthouse just before the sentencing.

The maga mob gets the message just like they did on January 6 and storm the courthouse.

Am I paranoid?
Your scenario hinges on a rich white man facing actual consequences for something other than messing with the money of richer white men.
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Old 22nd November 2022, 11:07 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
“Daddy, how did the Second Civil War start?”

“The Second Civil War, which rectified the result of the rigged First Civil War, occurred when Generalissimo Trump - Eternal President of the Dominion of These United States was wrongly convicted on Bidened up charges which are blasphemous to repeat…”
You forgot to wish peace be upon his name, infidel.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 01:33 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Trump is not going to prison. Not because he doesn't deserve to; it just ain't happening. The betting window is open for any takers.
I don't bet, but if I did, the only bet I would make is that if any of his many crimes will land him in jail, the most likely one is if he is indicted and found guilty of election fraud in Georgia.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022...igation-prison
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Old 27th November 2022, 07:04 PM   #45
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Is anyone surprised?

------------------------------------------

Trump CONTINUES to ATTACK Special Counsel Jack Smith NONSTOP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMngWJHXEMA

-------------------------------------------

Trump ATTACKS Special Counsel Jack Smith’s Wife

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbzMkYPvURM

-------------------------------------------

At what point does DJT add another charge onto the pile. . .obstruction of a criminal investigation?
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Old 27th November 2022, 08:09 PM   #46
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Trump might try, it will fail.

The attack on the Capitol wouldn't have been so bad except Trump essentially blocked a military back-up response for hours.

The military, national guard and DC police might have plenty of Trump supporters in their ranks (so did/does the Capitol Police), but not enough to actually face off in a civil war. If a mob forms around any of the court houses Trump will be tried in there will be more than enough force to arrest them all.

The idiots like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers live in a fantasy world imagining they could have actually formed a military contingent capable of keeping Trump in power. They expected Trump to declare Martial Law or the Insurrection Act or both. That might have been a mess if the military (any branch) decided to follow Trump's orders.

My guess is Trump didn't have the guts to try it. But in the meantime IIRC a number of military generals were already planning to refuse such orders.

ETA: I expect Trump to flee to Saudi Arabia before he is sentenced if jail seems inevitable.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 27th November 2022 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 27th November 2022, 10:59 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Trump might try, it will fail.

The attack on the Capitol wouldn't have been so bad except Trump essentially blocked a military back-up response for hours.

The military, national guard and DC police might have plenty of Trump supporters in their ranks (so did/does the Capitol Police), but not enough to actually face off in a civil war. If a mob forms around any of the court houses Trump will be tried in there will be more than enough force to arrest them all.

The idiots like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers live in a fantasy world imagining they could have actually formed a military contingent capable of keeping Trump in power. They expected Trump to declare Martial Law or the Insurrection Act or both. That might have been a mess if the military (any branch) decided to follow Trump's orders.

My guess is Trump didn't have the guts to try it. But in the meantime IIRC a number of military generals were already planning to refuse such orders.

ETA: I expect Trump to flee to Saudi Arabia before he is sentenced if jail seems inevitable.
I like that. I don't think it will happen, but I like it anyway. But I can't decide whether we should swap him back for missiles, or offer them extra missiles if they promise to keep him.
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Old 28th November 2022, 08:50 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
For me Jan 6 opened the flood gates of possibilities.
On January 6, the perpetrators were in control of the security planning, which enabled them to deliberately under-prepare. That would not be the case at a court-house where Trump was on trial.

Also, his zombie horde back then was energized by anger. Now they're de-energized, demoralized, & dispirited. They're giving up on his rebellion and looking for another way to proceed. (And I just now noticed how their whole movement since he lost the election parallels the classic "stages of grieving": denial is followed by anger, which is followed by bargaining and depression.)
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Old 28th November 2022, 09:11 AM   #49
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Meh, even if it does happen, its not like it will be the end of the Republic or anything. As others noted, it would just delay sentencing, damage some property, maybe hurt so folks but have a bunch of Trumpists in jail.

Wouldn't be worse than a second Trump presidency which is far more of a nightmare.
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Old 28th November 2022, 09:38 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Quote:
ETA: I expect Trump to flee to Saudi Arabia before he is sentenced if jail seems inevitable.
I like that. I don't think it will happen, but I like it anyway. But I can't decide whether we should swap him back for missiles, or offer them extra missiles if they promise to keep him.
It depends...

Could the U.S. offer Saudi Arabia the missiles by firing them at where ever Trump happens to be staying?

"We are offering you some free cruise missiles. They will be there in 3 seconds, 2.... 1. They're there. Oh, did they just blow up Trump Tower Riyadh where Trump was staying? Oops, my bad."
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Old 28th November 2022, 09:47 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
On January 6, the perpetrators were in control of the security planning, which enabled them to deliberately under-prepare. That would not be the case at a court-house where Trump was on trial.

Also, his zombie horde back then was energized by anger. Now they're de-energized, demoralized, & dispirited. They're giving up on his rebellion and looking for another way to proceed. (And I just now noticed how their whole movement since he lost the election parallels the classic "stages of grieving": denial is followed by anger, which is followed by bargaining and depression.)
This ^ Except I'm not sure about the stages of grief. The most hard core are moving on to new Q conspiracies, waiting for a new Messiah.
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Old 28th November 2022, 10:38 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
ETA: I expect Trump to flee to Saudi Arabia before he is sentenced if jail seems inevitable.
What would be in it for the Saudis?
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Old 28th November 2022, 11:35 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Quote:
ETA: I expect Trump to flee to Saudi Arabia before he is sentenced if jail seems inevitable.
What would be in it for the Saudis?
Help destabilize the United States (with whom they have a love-hate relationship). Show to their own allies that they are willing to stand by their friends. Maybe they might think a "Trump on the Run" will be better for the pro-oil republicans in the U.S. than "Trump in jail".
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Old 28th November 2022, 11:38 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Help destabilize the United States (with whom they have a love-hate relationship). Show to their own allies that they are willing to stand by their friends. Maybe they might think a "Trump on the Run" will be better for the pro-oil republicans in the U.S. than "Trump in jail".
What's that old O'Henry story about the guys who kidnap a kid. The parents say "keep him!" and the kid is so obnoxious about a week later the kidnappers are willing to pay the parents take him back?
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Old 28th November 2022, 11:54 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This ^ Except I'm not sure about the stages of grief. The most hard core are moving on to new Q conspiracies, waiting for a new Messiah.
And dare we guess what rough beast that will be?
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Old 28th November 2022, 12:16 PM   #56
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i'm still worried about being 'freightened' with anything. Sounds heavy.
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Old 28th November 2022, 01:59 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
What would be in it for the Saudis?
Quid pro quo

They've already received at least a couple of things. After Trump was elected the crown prince MBS consolidated his power and arrested those in the royal circle who were against him. There is evidence Trump gave him the list of names acquired by our CIA.

That's because it appears that last November Jared Kushner allegedly shared classified U.S. intel with Crown Prince MBS about his “enemies" in the kingdom.
Quote:
Saudi crown prince Mohammed bin Salman bragged of receiving classified US intelligence from Jared Kushner and using it as part of a purge of 'corrupt' princes and businessmen, DailyMail.com can disclose. ...

Soon after Kushner gave him this intel MBS had hundreds of his rivals in the Saudi royal family rounded up and detained and tortured inside the Riyadh Ritz Carlton until they agreed to sign “settlements" which amount to $Billions given to the Saudi government.
Trump had top secret files that included intelligence on Iran's nuclear program among other things. Kushner went to Saudi Arabia 2 months after Trump lost the election and came back with a 2 billion dollar investment that was determined to be unwise by Saudi assessments none the less said prince overruled the advice.

Saudis Give $2 Billion To Jared Kushner's Fund After Cozy Trump Ties: Report
Quote:
Kushner ally Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman overruled sovereign fund panel fears about inexperienced management and troubling risks.
Trump, Classified Nuclear Files, Saudis: What We Do Know, What We Don't
Quote:
The speculation that Trump may have withheld documents relating to nuclear secrets appeared to raise questions about his administration's links to the transfer of U.S. nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia.

In 2019, Senate Democrats said the administration had approved the transfer of nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia on at least two occasions ... These transfers were not revealed to Congress by Trump Cabinet officials until months after they took place....

Trump's links to the Saudi elite were reestablished—and came under scrutiny—recently when he held the Saudi-funded LIV Golf tour at his club in Bedminster, New Jersey.

This was not the only major decision on nuclear technology or armaments that Trump is connected to. There was also the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty, which Trump pulled the United States out of during his time in office.
The top 11 favors the Trump administration has done for Saudi Arabia
Quote:
WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump vetoed three congressional bills Wednesday aimed at stopping more than $8 billion in arms sales to Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, the latest favor by a commander in chief who has made a point of lavishing praise on the Saudi kingdom while avoiding public criticism.

From his earliest days in office, Trump has cultivated Saudi Arabia and placed it at the center of his foreign policy in the Middle East, lauding Riyadh's stance against Iran and its appetite for U.S.-made weapons.
And so on and so on ...

You can ignore these facts as circumstantial or you can dismiss the sources. But there is more than enough blatant evidence supporting the suppositions and it is clear Trump has done enough for the crown prince that why wouldn't they accept Trump as a political refugee?.
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Old 28th November 2022, 03:03 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Quid pro quo

They've already received at least a couple of things. After Trump was elected the crown prince MBS consolidated his power and arrested those in the royal circle who were against him. There is evidence Trump gave him the list of names acquired by our CIA.

That's because it appears that last November Jared Kushner allegedly shared classified U.S. intel with Crown Prince MBS about his “enemies" in the kingdom.

Trump had top secret files that included intelligence on Iran's nuclear program among other things. Kushner went to Saudi Arabia 2 months after Trump lost the election and came back with a 2 billion dollar investment that was determined to be unwise by Saudi assessments none the less said prince overruled the advice.

Saudis Give $2 Billion To Jared Kushner's Fund After Cozy Trump Ties: Report

Trump, Classified Nuclear Files, Saudis: What We Do Know, What We Don't


The top 11 favors the Trump administration has done for Saudi Arabia

And so on and so on ...

You can ignore these facts as circumstantial or you can dismiss the sources. But there is more than enough blatant evidence supporting the suppositions and it is clear Trump has done enough for the crown prince that why wouldn't they accept Trump as a political refugee?.
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Old 28th November 2022, 03:18 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Quid pro quo

They've already received at least a couple of things. After Trump was elected the crown prince MBS consolidated his power and arrested those in the royal circle who were against him. There is evidence Trump gave him the list of names acquired by our CIA.

That's because it appears that last November Jared Kushner allegedly shared classified U.S. intel with Crown Prince MBS about his “enemies" in the kingdom.

Trump had top secret files that included intelligence on Iran's nuclear program among other things. Kushner went to Saudi Arabia 2 months after Trump lost the election and came back with a 2 billion dollar investment that was determined to be unwise by Saudi assessments none the less said prince overruled the advice.

Saudis Give $2 Billion To Jared Kushner's Fund After Cozy Trump Ties: Report

Trump, Classified Nuclear Files, Saudis: What We Do Know, What We Don't


The top 11 favors the Trump administration has done for Saudi Arabia

And so on and so on ...

You can ignore these facts as circumstantial or you can dismiss the sources. But there is more than enough blatant evidence supporting the suppositions and it is clear Trump has done enough for the crown prince that why wouldn't they accept Trump as a political refugee?.
I'm still not really seeing what's in it for them. I suppose they might fell some loyalty, but assuming Trump is fleeing US justice, it's not like he'd be able to do anything from the Saudis now and he'd be a pretty big pain in the ass. The could also alleviate any guilt over the lack of loyalty by remember that sweet heart deal they Gave Kushner.
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Old 28th November 2022, 09:54 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
I'm still not really seeing what's in it for them. I suppose they might fell some loyalty, but assuming Trump is fleeing US justice, it's not like he'd be able to do anything from the Saudis now and he'd be a pretty big pain in the ass. The could also alleviate any guilt over the lack of loyalty by remember that sweet heart deal they Gave Kushner.
I gave a few things they could gain from giving asylum to Trump back in post #59.

- They may think that protecting Trump might help U.S. republicans. A convicted/jailed Trump would be a bad image. A Trump who has fled to Saudi Arabia would look bad too, but they might think its preferable to the republicans if they can claim "Trump might be innocent, we don't know" if the final verdict or sentence isn't rendered because Trump has fled. And of course helping republicans is better for those wanting the world dependent on oil

- Its not only loyalty to Trump that is important, but they may also want to assure others of their loyalty. i.e. "Join with us and we will protect you too if you run into trouble, just as we did with Trump"

- They may want to destabilize the united states, and think allowing Trump to flee is good for the chaos. (Because a chaotic U.S. is easier to manipulate)
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Old 28th November 2022, 10:26 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
i'm still worried about being 'freightened' with anything. Sounds heavy.
You really took this thread down the wrong track with that.
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Old 29th November 2022, 12:00 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I gave a few things they could gain from giving asylum to Trump back in post #59.

- They may think that protecting Trump might help U.S. republicans. A convicted/jailed Trump would be a bad image. A Trump who has fled to Saudi Arabia would look bad too, but they might think its preferable to the republicans if they can claim "Trump might be innocent, we don't know" if the final verdict or sentence isn't rendered because Trump has fled. And of course helping republicans is better for those wanting the world dependent on oil

- Its not only loyalty to Trump that is important, but they may also want to assure others of their loyalty. i.e. "Join with us and we will protect you too if you run into trouble, just as we did with Trump"

- They may want to destabilize the united states, and think allowing Trump to flee is good for the chaos. (Because a chaotic U.S. is easier to manipulate)
All good points.
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Old 29th November 2022, 06:29 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Who cares if it does happen, in the grand scheme? It wouldn't change anything about the outcome of the trial; at worst it would delay his sentencing, I suppose. I would be more concerned about the overall outcome if he isn't convicted, probably.

Are you paranoid? No, I don't think so. Do I think it is way premature to be concerned about such things? Yes.
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I gave a few things they could gain from giving asylum to Trump back in post #59.

- They may think that protecting Trump might help U.S. republicans. A convicted/jailed Trump would be a bad image. A Trump who has fled to Saudi Arabia would look bad too, but they might think its preferable to the republicans if they can claim "Trump might be innocent, we don't know" if the final verdict or sentence isn't rendered because Trump has fled. And of course helping republicans is better for those wanting the world dependent on oil

- Its not only loyalty to Trump that is important, but they may also want to assure others of their loyalty. i.e. "Join with us and we will protect you too if you run into trouble, just as we did with Trump"

- They may want to destabilize the united states, and think allowing Trump to flee is good for the chaos. (Because a chaotic U.S. is easier to manipulate)
They gave Trump some sweet heart deals?

Would it be easier for them to abrogate those deals when Trump's in the big house?

Just thinking.

Last edited by arayder; 29th November 2022 at 06:44 AM.
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Old 29th November 2022, 08:36 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I gave a few things they could gain from giving asylum to Trump back in post #59.

- They may think that protecting Trump might help U.S. republicans. A convicted/jailed Trump would be a bad image. A Trump who has fled to Saudi Arabia would look bad too, but they might think its preferable to the republicans if they can claim "Trump might be innocent, we don't know" if the final verdict or sentence isn't rendered because Trump has fled. And of course helping republicans is better for those wanting the world dependent on oil

- Its not only loyalty to Trump that is important, but they may also want to assure others of their loyalty. i.e. "Join with us and we will protect you too if you run into trouble, just as we did with Trump"

- They may want to destabilize the united states, and think allowing Trump to flee is good for the chaos. (Because a chaotic U.S. is easier to manipulate)
Meh, historically, Reps have only been mildly more supportive of Saudi's than Dems and lately their's a solid argument that the Dem/left's anti-oil leanings are actually better for the Saudi's than the Reps. On the other hand, the strongly anti Iran stance of the Reps is good for the Saudis.

There is literally no benefit to the Saudis from destablizing the US, maybe the Russians.

The highlighted bit, sure, I don't see much value but maybe. Down side, the antagonize the current US administration, they don't actually seem to care about that. Trump him self sucks, I guess they could give him a house in some corner of the dessert.
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Old 29th November 2022, 11:11 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Meh, historically, Reps have only been mildly more supportive of Saudi's than Dems and lately their's a solid argument that the Dem/left's anti-oil leanings are actually better for the Saudi's than the Reps. On the other hand, the strongly anti Iran stance of the Reps is good for the Saudis.

There is literally no benefit to the Saudis from destablizing the US, maybe the Russians.

The highlighted bit, sure, I don't see much value but maybe. Down side, the antagonize the current US administration, they don't actually seem to care about that. Trump him self sucks, I guess they could give him a house in some corner of the dessert.
Where do you think Trump will flee to if it looks like he's going to jail? Either he's going to be in denial until they actually cuff him, or he'll leave the country.

Perhaps he'll plead for home detention at his FL resort. I'd bet he could get the judge to agree with that. It's a mess given the Secret Service is supposed to protect him even if he's in jail. Then he can keep charging the Secret Service for their room and board there.
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Old 29th November 2022, 11:14 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Where do you think Trump will flee to if it looks like he's going to jail? Either he's going to be in denial until they actually cuff him, or he'll leave the country.

Perhaps he'll plead for home detention at his FL resort. I'd bet he could get the judge to agree with that. It's a mess given the Secret Service is supposed to protect him even if he's in jail. Then he can keep charging the Secret Service for their room and board there.
I doubt it will come to that but...
A. I don't really know, Trump tends to burn his bridges.
B. Russia likes to stick their thumb in the US's eye.
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Old 29th November 2022, 11:39 AM   #67
arayder
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And moving back to the OP let me ask. . .

Let's say you robbed a bank, or bombed judge's house, stole some state secrets and an investigation was started that sought to get the facts, possibly indict and try you in court with the ultimate goal being a conviction for the crime.

At the get-go against your lawyer's advice you go nuts on social media calling the investigators and the prosecuting attorney every nasty name you can think of ending with the charge that they are bought and paid for crooks who are doing the evil bidding of some devilish cabal.

Charges are brought against you and the case is assigned to a judge who you immediately light into with the same hateful rants.

At what point in this story can or should the judge or a judge tell you to stay off social media and keep your mouth shut about the case?

And why should it be any different for DJT?
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Old 29th November 2022, 04:05 PM   #68
bruto
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Where do you think Trump will flee to if it looks like he's going to jail? Either he's going to be in denial until they actually cuff him, or he'll leave the country.

Perhaps he'll plead for home detention at his FL resort. I'd bet he could get the judge to agree with that. It's a mess given the Secret Service is supposed to protect him even if he's in jail. Then he can keep charging the Secret Service for their room and board there.
Maybe we can get together a gofundme and buy him a nice little dacha in Belarus. They might even get him a tractor so he can go "vroom vroom."
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Old 29th November 2022, 07:30 PM   #69
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Maybe we can get together a gofundme and buy him a nice little dacha in Belarus. They might even get him a tractor so he can go "vroom vroom."
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Old 29th November 2022, 08:51 PM   #70
CORed
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Where do you think Trump will flee to if it looks like he's going to jail? Either he's going to be in denial until they actually cuff him, or he'll leave the country.

Perhaps he'll plead for home detention at his FL resort. I'd bet he could get the judge to agree with that. It's a mess given the Secret Service is supposed to protect him even if he's in jail. Then he can keep charging the Secret Service for their room and board there.
Yes, the requirement to protect him does make putting him in prison problematic. I think the problem could be solved by putting him in Supermax in Florence, CO or Guantanamo, but I think some sort of home detention scheme is more likely.
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