IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

Reply
Old 21st December 2021, 06:06 AM   #121
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 29,635
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
He is already seen as one, so it really doesn't matter if he actually has to face some consequences.


Yeah, "Don't do that or you'll piss off his crazy supporters!" isn't much of an argument when everything pisses them off.
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2021, 06:13 AM   #122
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 19,023
Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Yeah, "Don't do that or you'll piss off his crazy supporters!" isn't much of an argument when everything pisses them off.
ain't that the truth.
__________________
"The only true paradise is paradise lost"
Marcel Proust
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2021, 10:20 AM   #123
eerok
Quixoticist
 
eerok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 5,344
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Make a martyr out of him. That's a good idea.
Reality makes no difference to the dillweeds who worship Trump, but for the rest of America, seeing a lifelong abuser of the system and serial toxic jackass like Trump finally be held accountable is in fact a good idea.
__________________
"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde
eerok is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2021, 11:45 AM   #124
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 33,307
T**** has played the martyr from the start, bemoaning the unwillingness of everyone under the sun to go along with him, characterizing the impeachments as witch hunts, and so forth, just as the majority Christians paint themselves as a beleaguered minority if the rest of the world doesn't march to their beat.

Perhaps it's time to stop being afraid of them. I think too many Democrats count their cause lost before they've done anything at all.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

"There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2021, 11:15 PM   #125
mgidm86
Philosopher
 
mgidm86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,947
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Just dropped in to share a nice prediction by someone who knows his stuff:

Investigating Trump: Manhattan DA prepares charges against former president

In the MSNBC interview Johnston says he thinks Trump is about to be indicted for racketeering.

Reporters from Forbes recently testified before the Grand Jury about Trump's inflating his net worth. Trump regularly inflated his worth to get loans and deflated it when it came to his taxes. This is a no brainer. He will of course blame this all on Weisselberg but that won't help given Trump signed everything. Also a no brainer. And then there is the matter Trump has a long history of using this tactic, that's where the racketeering comes in as opposed to a mere civil suit.

Trump's response is always to delay delay delay so it's no wonder he recently filed a lawsuit asking all the legal actions in NY be stopped. No doubt that will go to appeal after appeal until it reaches the SCOTUS where Trump no doubt is still hoping his appointed judges will come through for him even though it is a state case against him. Again another no brainer.

But the racketeering charge is something new.


Nice to see you here again, now "tag up" with me so I can take another break please!
__________________
Thanks and bye.
mgidm86 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2021, 02:56 AM   #126
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 12,650
It has been widely reported former president donald trump was booed in Dallas Sunday night after he revealed he'd received a booster shot of Covid-19 vaccine. This was during the final stop of the four-city tour he's been on with former Fox News host Bill O'Reilly.

Quote:
Former President Donald Trump revealed he received a booster shot of the COVID-19 vaccine, drawing boos from a crowd in Dallas. Trump made the disclosure Sunday night during the final stop of “The History Tour,” a live interview show he has been doing with former Fox News host Bill O’Reilly...Trump aides did not immediately respond to a request for comment Monday. ABC News link
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2021, 06:38 AM   #127
Fast Eddie B
Philosopher
 
Fast Eddie B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 7,359
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
It has been widely reported former president donald trump was booed in Dallas Sunday night after he revealed he'd received a booster shot of Covid-19 vaccine. This was during the final stop of the four-city tour he's been on with former Fox News host Bill O'Reilly.
You can see it here:

https://youtu.be/k7RTp40syro

Hard to tell because of the microphone placement, but it seems like a small smattering of disapproval rather than raucous boos. It may have been “a tiny group over there” as Trump put it.
Fast Eddie B is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2021, 06:46 AM   #128
Fast Eddie B
Philosopher
 
Fast Eddie B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 7,359
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
The 1997 BBC series The Nazis: A Warning from History is good too

https://watchdocumentaries.com/the-n...-from-history/
I made it through the first 3 episodes.

I’ll be skipping Episode 4 - “The Road to Treblinka”. Episode 3 was graphic enough about the horrors of which I am already aware. Episode 5 is “Fighting to the End”, so I’ll give that a go.

Altogether a well crafted documentary series. The interviews with both participants and victims are especially revealing.
Fast Eddie B is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2021, 11:21 AM   #129
Lurch
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,285
As I write this, the thread is up to Part 29. I wonder what will this Part number count will rise to by the end of 2028. Provided that before then websites accommodating free expression, intellectualism, skepticism, science, etc., aren't shut down as "wreckers."

You see, I'm approaching a kind of despondency over the potential for the orange sphincter getting back into power. If the DoJ remains mute on the matter of the insurrectionist ring-leaders, the jig will up for American democracy, such as it can be called that.

Last night Rachel revisited the matter of the 10 Wisvonsin fake electors that illegally submitted their forged documents, as part of the plan to get Trump's 'alternate' electors recognized on the 6th. To me, this is a crime of the highest order, yet thus nothing meaningful has been done about it. Some of those people remain in or were moved into positions of authority over future elections.

I keep saying it. America is sleepwalking into authoritarianism.
Lurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2021, 08:52 PM   #130
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
 
shemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Out back preparing the bunker for the next Civil War
Posts: 51,642
So, did he just admit that he lost?

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/s...10902264827906
__________________
Counting the days to Civil War II.
shemp is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2021, 09:02 PM   #131
eerok
Quixoticist
 
eerok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 5,344
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
So, did he just admit that he lost?

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/s...10902264827906
Trump could never lose. Don't believe your lying eyes. /s
__________________
"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde
eerok is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2021, 10:12 PM   #132
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 9,462
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
So, did he just admit that he lost?

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/s...10902264827906
Probably? And it's probably not the first time, either way. Does it actually matter? Not really. He and much of the Republican Party establishment will keep claiming that the election was stolen from him for tactical/propaganda reasons, regardless of how clear they've made it that they know that it's a pile of crap.
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.
Aridas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2021, 12:20 AM   #133
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 27,839
Yes, he did. He needs to send nasty, insulting tweets to himself. Oh, wait....
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2021, 02:10 AM   #134
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 32,585
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
What's the alternative ? Let him off scot-free ?
Given he owns SCOTUS, where final appeals could end up, I don't believe he will ever face consequences anyway, so yes, let it go.

I don't believe anything he's done is as bad as things we know for certain he's done before, so no conviction will change the minds of those who vote for him.

In the words of Micehelle Obama: Be Better.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2021, 02:34 AM   #135
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 35,528
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Given he owns SCOTUS, where final appeals could end up, I don't believe he will ever face consequences anyway, so yes, let it go.

I don't believe anything he's done is as bad as things we know for certain he's done before, so no conviction will change the minds of those who vote for him.

In the words of Micehelle Obama: Be Better.
Well I suppose that's a point of view.

IMO that sends a clear message that, if you're prepared to brazen things out and delay proceedings long enough, the rule of law does not apply.

When that message is received, the GOP will come to the conclusion that they will never face any consequences for any of their actions and that they now "own" the country.

I think that's a dangerous message to send - YMMV.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2021, 03:10 AM   #136
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 27,839
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Well I suppose that's a point of view.

IMO that sends a clear message that, if you're prepared to brazen things out and delay proceedings long enough, the rule of law does not apply.

When that message is received, the GOP will come to the conclusion that they will never face any consequences for any of their actions and that they now "own" the country.

I think that's a dangerous message to send - YMMV.
I could not agree with you more. It was the same thing with the two impeachments. They clearly sent the message that it doesn't matter what you do, if you're powerful enough, you can get away with anything. Obviously, Trump believed that when he said " And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything," and he's been proved right. At least so far. Dropping this would just cement that belief in those that follow. He MUST be held accountable for his actions and crimes or any pretense that we are all equal before the law might as well just be flushed down the toilet.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2021, 08:36 AM   #137
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 19,328
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Quote:
What's the alternative ? Let him off scot-free ?
Given he owns SCOTUS, where final appeals could end up, I don't believe he will ever face consequences anyway, so yes, let it go.
Does he really "own the Supreme court"?

Yes, the supreme court should now be viewed as a bunch of partisan hacks interested in pushing an agenda that appeals only to a minority of voters. But I think their allegiance is aimed mostly at right-wing policies, rather than Trump himself. (Not that they would shy away from helping Trump, but they would have to be smart about things. And they have ruled against him in the past.)
Quote:
I don't believe anything he's done is as bad as things we know for certain he's done before, so no conviction will change the minds of those who vote for him.
The hardcore MAGAchuds will never be convinced otherwise. The hope is that there are some marginal voters who may have voted Trump in the past, who might start to think "Whoa! A convictinon? I didn't think he was that bad. Maybe I should not support him anymore".
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2021, 08:40 AM   #138
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 41,991
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Does he really "own the Supreme court"?
Errr... sorta yeah. Without semantics the point has 3 hand picked toadies on the court who are going to (most of the time, rare, mostly meaningless exceptions will happen) vote for him on a personal level instead of voting legally, on their conscious, or even with a traditional political bias.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2021, 02:28 PM   #139
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 27,839
Speaking of the SC:

Quote:
Quote:
In filings submitted to the Supreme Court on Thursday, Trump asked the justices to take up a full review of the case and he requested that while they consider his position, they put a hold on the lower court decision permitting the disclosure of his records while they consider taking up the case.

"The limited interest the Committee may have in immediately obtaining the requested records pales in comparison to President Trump's interest in securing judicial review before he suffers irreparable harm," Trump's lawyers wrote in the court filings.
Quote:
At issue are hundreds of documents including activity logs, schedules, speech notes and three pages of handwritten notes from then-White House chief of staff Mark Meadows -- paperwork that could reveal goings-on inside the West Wing as Trump supporters gathered in Washington and then overran the US Capitol, disrupting the certification of the 2020 vote. The records could answer some of the most closely guarded facts of what happened between Trump and other high-level officials, including those under siege on Capitol Hill on January 6.

Trump is also seeking to keep secret a draft proclamation honoring two police officers who died in the siege and memos and other documents about supposed election fraud and efforts to overturn Trump's loss of the presidency, the National Archives has said in court documents.
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2021, 03:57 PM   #140
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 32,585
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
IMO that sends a clear message that, if you're prepared to brazen things out and delay proceedings long enough, the rule of law does not apply.
Remind me again, in spite of numerous cases of fraud, racism, slander, libel, illegal use of public funds and using the office of POTUS for personal gain, how many times he's been convicted to date?

Two impeachments failed, he's never been held accountable for anything in his disgusting life. What makes you think it might happen now, on probably the most spurious charges that could be brought?

As long as the opposing team keeps focusing on him instead of getting their own **** together nothing will stop his re-election.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2021, 05:11 PM   #141
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 19,328
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Remind me again, in spite of numerous cases of fraud, racism, slander, libel, illegal use of public funds and using the office of POTUS for personal gain, how many times he's been convicted to date?
He hasn't been sentenced to criminal charges, but remember that he and/or his klan have lost civil cases (such as over Trump university), so he's not totally invulnerable.

Now, you may be right to be pessimistic. Maybe he will always find a way (a friendly judge, corrupt politicians, etc.) to avoid being held accountable. But that doesn't necessarily mean it is a mistake to go after him for his criminal activity.

Best case scenario, they actually manage to charge and convict him. (Its not outside the realm of possibility.... after all, we have heard of other rich people getting charged after years of criminal activity? (Ghislaine Maxwell as an example.)

And even in the worst case scenario, even if he manages to avoid any sort of prosecution/conviction, it is still at least an annoyance for him (if not a major headache). He has to pay for lawyers (after all, he can't stiff them all...), take time out of his schedule of grifting others to deal with court cases, etc.
Quote:
As long as the opposing team keeps focusing on him instead of getting their own **** together nothing will stop his re-election.
Why does it have to be an either/or?

Legal charges are brought by prosecutors. There is nothing keeping politicians from running their campaigns while prosecutors do their work.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 02:09 PM   #142
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 9,462
To poke at one of the ongoing aftereffects of Trump -

'I hope your family dies in front of you': Rep. Dingell responds to the cruelty Trump has wrought

Example -

Quote:
VOICEMAIL TO REP. DINGELL: “You goddamn old senile bitch. You’re as old and ugly as Biden. You ought to get the **** off the planet. You ******* foul bitch. They ought to ******* try you for treason, bitch. You and every one of your scumbag ******* friends. I hope your family dies in front of you. I pray to God if you’ve got any children, they die in your face.”
From a discussion on the topic -

Quote:
DINGELL: “I’ve been getting those for a couple of years.”

BASH: “A couple of years?”

DINGELL: “A couple of years, ever since, at Christmastime, the Christmas right after John [Dingell, Rep. Debbie Dingell’s late husband and a former congressman] had died, President Trump was in Michigan. … Once you’re in that Trump hate tunnel, you kind of don’t escape it. There are a lot of good people out there who are really wonderful to me, etc., but we average several of those a week. And, you know, we’re used to it. … My friends look at me, I play them, and it’s almost like therapy, and they say, ‘How can you do this?’ But you have to, we’ve got to be careful not to normalize it, but I’m not going to not do my job. I’m not going to go out and not be with people. I’m not going to go out and not listen to them. I want the American people to think about what’s happening in our country. That this kind of hate, this fear, is happening in communities across the country. You know, if you even look at the horrific shooting that killed children in our state … he was living with parents that had some of that. We need to really worry about our democracy and find a way that you can disagree with people and do it in a civil and agreeable way. And it really does have me very worried.”
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.
Aridas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 03:39 PM   #143
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 27,839
Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
To poke at one of the ongoing aftereffects of Trump -

'I hope your family dies in front of you': Rep. Dingell responds to the cruelty Trump has wrought

Example -



From a discussion on the topic -
Sometimes...hell, most of the time nowadays, I really, really dislike people in general.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 04:50 PM   #144
The Man
Unbanned zombie poster
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 16,715
Well, it's started again. I just received my "2022 CONGRSSIONAL DISRICT CANVASS" "Commissioned by the Republican Party" with the typical loaded questions. As usual with the notations like "Registered Document" and "Do Not Destroy" it went right into the shredder. At least now they're not claiming it's a "Census" requiring some processing fee. Though I expect there still was some other strong push for a donation or "Fee" (didn't look at that part).
__________________
BRAINZZZZZZZZ
The Man is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 05:02 PM   #145
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 27,839
Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Well, it's started again. I just received my "2022 CONGRSSIONAL DISRICT CANVASS" "Commissioned by the Republican Party" with the typical loaded questions. As usual with the notations like "Registered Document" and "Do Not Destroy" it went right into the shredder. At least now they're not claiming it's a "Census" requiring some processing fee. Though I expect there still was some other strong push for a donation or "Fee" (didn't look at that part).
I'd say your expectation is more than solidly based.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 05:12 PM   #146
Warp12
King of Kings
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,104
Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
To poke at one of the ongoing aftereffects of Trump -

'I hope your family dies in front of you': Rep. Dingell responds to the cruelty Trump has wrought

Example -



From a discussion on the topic -
This makes me laugh. Not because I think people should be so mean and toxic...but because of the garbage and hate that gets spewed in this very forum. But, you know, that's okay...because conservatives are bad, and all.
__________________
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 05:28 PM   #147
Venom
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 6,045
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
This makes me laugh. Not because I think people should be so mean and toxic...but because of the garbage and hate that gets spewed in this very forum. But, you know, that's okay...because conservatives are bad, and all.
If Trump is your standard for being a "conservative", you're in deep trouble.

I think you know that being a conservative alone is not what draws the hostility.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 05:31 PM   #148
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 32,388
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
If Trump is your standard for being a "conservative", you're in deep trouble.

I think you know that being a conservative alone is not what draws the hostility.
I'm pretty sure trolls don't really care about such nuance.
__________________
1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 05:35 PM   #149
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 27,839
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I'm pretty sure trolls don't really care about such nuance.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 05:37 PM   #150
Warp12
King of Kings
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,104
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
If Trump is your standard for being a "conservative", you're in deep trouble.

I think you know that being a conservative alone is not what draws the hostility.
If you think the hate here is limited to Trump, and not often spewed towards conservatives in a blanket fashion...well, I would call that denial.

But, hey, whatever you say. I am not expecting anyone to have an introspective moment, in this place. That ship sailed a long time ago. Along with most of the members, it seems.
__________________
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 06:03 PM   #151
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 33,307
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
This makes me laugh. Not because I think people should be so mean and toxic...but because of the garbage and hate that gets spewed in this very forum. But, you know, that's okay...because conservatives are bad, and all.
I agree to a degree that one should not rise to the bait, even of those who in their wickedness realize that the things they do which are wrong can only be countered by similar wrongs for which they can then condemn their victims with convenient disregard for what went befare. But even in the vengeful utterances we sometimes see here I cannot recall anyone, even those I believe have gone way too far, expressing to an individual tthe hope that their children die in front of them. Even you, I think, might, if you stopped to think, might relax your customary rationalization and admit that this goes beyond mere nasty rhetoric. I truly believe that people who can utter such things anyehere but in feverish solitude are dangerously deranged and unworthy of the good opinion of anyone who purports to deserve any respect this side of Hell.

Eta by which if you don't get my drift, I mean that no comparative excuse can provide an excuse. You are on record as saying that failure to condemn is tantamount to approval. I do not consider a mealy-mouthed "they're all bad"whataboutism suffices here.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

"There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)

Last edited by bruto; 27th December 2021 at 06:09 PM. Reason: Tablet typing errors
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 06:11 PM   #152
Warp12
King of Kings
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,104
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I agree to a degree that one should not rise to the bait, even of those who in their wickedness realize that the things they do which are wrong can only be countered by similar wrongs for which they can then condemn their victims with convenient disregard for what went befare. But even in the vengeful utterances we sometimes see here I cannot recall anyone, even those I believe have gone way too far, expressing to an individual tthe hope that their children die in front of them. Even you, I think, might, if you stopped to think, might relax your customary rationalization and admit that this goes beyond mere nasty rhetoric. I truly believe that people who can utter such things anyehere but in feverish solitude are dangerously deranged and unworthy of the good opinion of anyone who purports to deserve any respect this side of Hell.
Meh. If people are willing to escalate hatred, but then whine when it exceeds their personal threshold of acceptability...I say, **** 'em. Give them what they peddle, and in spades.
__________________
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.

Last edited by Warp12; 27th December 2021 at 06:12 PM.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 06:13 PM   #153
Venom
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 6,045
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
If you think the hate here is limited to Trump, and not often spewed towards conservatives in a blanket fashion...well, I would call that denial.
There are relatively conservative members who have spewed "hate" towards much of the modern GOP. Why do you think that is. Hate doesn't have to be balanced to be objective.

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
But, hey, whatever you say. I am not expecting anyone to have an introspective moment, in this place. That ship sailed a long time ago. Along with most of the members, it seems.
lmao
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 06:19 PM   #154
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 33,307
Sorry I was a bit late with a "eta" here, but wiil just add that if you think this is merely a comparative escalation of bad taste, I think you are missing something very important.

I'll leave it at htat.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

"There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 07:29 PM   #155
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 27,839
I just watched a very interesting program on Trump including interviews with mental health professionals about his mental disorders and why and how he appealed to so many people. Historians compare his rise to how Mussolini was 'invited in by the ruling elite" and how they thought they could control him (think 2016 and today's GOP leadership) and with Hitler and his use of scapegoats (think immigration). They discuss how he uses the same techniques as Mussolini and Hitler in fostering a sense of victimization and fear and by removing a certain element (the scapegoat), it will make the country better and their lives better. He repeats things 3 times at rallies and gets the audience to repeat it. It then becomes fact to them. Interviews with those who know him reveal who he really is. It was made when Trump was still in office 2018) but is still relevant considering the grip he still has on the GOP. Although they focus on his control of nuclear weapons, etc., we know his real dangerousness was/is his attack on our democracy. It's fascinating and I highly recommend it.

Unfit: The Psychology of Donald Trump (about 1.5 hours)

Available on Youtube (in 7 parts) and Amazon Prime.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 27th December 2021 at 07:30 PM.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 09:02 PM   #156
Regnad Kcin
Penultimate Amazing
 
Regnad Kcin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 10,713
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
This makes me laugh. Not because I think people should be so mean and toxic...but because of the garbage and hate that gets spewed in this very forum. But, you know, that's okay...because conservatives are bad, and all.
Troll, troll, troll your boat..
__________________
My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.
Regnad Kcin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 09:19 PM   #157
Delvo
Дэлво Δελϝο דֶלְבֹֿ देल्वो
 
Delvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: North Tonawanda, NY
Posts: 10,685
It will be interesting to see the reaction when he dies. Cults normally fizzle when their leaders die; the ones that outlive their leaders are religions. But the analogy is flawed because he didn't found the movement; he just stumbled into it after it had been around for years without him.
Delvo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 10:27 PM   #158
mgidm86
Philosopher
 
mgidm86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,947
Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Troll, troll, troll your boat..

More like a dinghy...
Quote:
1. noun plural -ghies. any small boat, powered by sail, oars, or outboard motor

2. verb plural -gies, -gying or -gied. (tr) British slang to ignore (a person) or avoid (an event)
__________________
Thanks and bye.
mgidm86 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 11:21 PM   #159
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 15,068
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
This makes me laugh. Not because I think people should be so mean and toxic...but because of the garbage and hate that gets spewed in this very forum. But, you know, that's okay...because conservatives are bad, and all.
Do good people who despise bad people become bad people themselves when they do so? Discuss, without invoking Godwin's Law.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th December 2021, 12:11 AM   #160
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 27,839
Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Troll, troll, troll your boat..
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:08 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.