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Old 8th August 2022, 10:17 AM   #361
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
If anyone would think about it for a second, they would have to realize that deficits can only cause inflation if the money raised is not invested. Tax cuts financed by deficits clearly raise inflation,as every Budget Office calculation ever has shown: tax cuts never pay for themselves in increased economic activity.
The Covid spending on workers who had to stay at home can't raise inflation, since the workers would have gotten way more money if they could have performed their work.
Gl
And spending on Green Energy (or staffing the IRS) can't raise inflation, as these are investments that will pay out more than they cost.
The problem is that in the US, the State is supposed to take all the risk but is not allowed any of the profits: by all logic, the Federal Government ought to own a large or even majority share in Tesla - but that is not how government grants work in this country.
Exactly.


I can point to invention after invention funded substantially by the government only to see companies take all the benefits and return little to the country. Take the semiconductor industry. It's development originally can be attributed to funding by the government as well as US contracts. We saw them ship an entire industry mostly to China and now those same companies are demanding bribes to bring it back. If not the nation will always be in danger of supply channel disruption.
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Old 8th August 2022, 10:50 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
That would be the argument for switching over but so far I just see the neocons (remember them?) taking that bridge--Bill Kristol, David Brooks, and the odious Jennifer Rubin. In fact the fiscal policies that the Democrats pursued this year were tremendously inflationary in the face of inflation the likes of which we have not seen for 40 years. I get it, I really do. Democrats feel they have to spend like drunken sailor every time they get control, but this was a really bad time to do that and the remedy is going to be really, really painful.
Then how is that for the past 30 or more years the Rs generally leave more of a fiscal mess behind them for the Ds to fix?

Spending done wisely can be an investment. Just as the GI Bill post WW2 turned out to have been of direct positive financial gain due to the national increase in productivity.

Spending on things like infrastructure, health care and renewable energy sources pay dividends a little down the road. It sure beats handing out tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires, naively (to be charitable) expecting a goddamn cent to 'trickle down.' Indeed, just give those monies to the poor and a heck of a lot more will circulate through the economy in a spending stimulus for all manner of businesses.

The GOP has for too many decades been all about shoveling money upward, widening the wealth gap to a now obscene degree that is contributing significantly to the national malaise.
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Old 8th August 2022, 11:27 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
Then how is that for the past 30 or more years the Rs generally leave more of a fiscal mess behind them for the Ds to fix?

Spending done wisely can be an investment. Just as the GI Bill post WW2 turned out to have been of direct positive financial gain due to the national increase in productivity.

Spending on things like infrastructure, health care and renewable energy sources pay dividends a little down the road. It sure beats handing out tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires, naively (to be charitable) expecting a goddamn cent to 'trickle down.' Indeed, just give those monies to the poor and a heck of a lot more will circulate through the economy in a spending stimulus for all manner of businesses.

The GOP has for too many decades been all about shoveling money upward, widening the wealth gap to a now obscene degree that is contributing significantly to the national malaise.
YES! YES! YES!
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Old 8th August 2022, 01:36 PM   #364
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I'm waiting for the answer to what measures passed under Biden that would be responsible for inflation.
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Old 9th August 2022, 06:01 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I'm waiting for the answer to what measures passed under Biden that would be responsible for inflation.
Well, duh, he has a "D" next to his name! That's all you need to know!


And if that's not enough, all those commercials from Republicans running for various gov't offices say the inflation is all Biden's fault.

That's quite enough proof for anyone who has majored in finance, lemme tell ya!
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Old 9th August 2022, 11:55 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
Is now a good time to engage in such high principles when the possibility exists that giving the Fascists power now could mean the end of Democracy?
Unfortunately, we are not now, and never have been a democracy, yet alone a "Democracy." And, we never will be anything close to those aspirations if we are depending upon a capitalist society and Private money controlled Public elections to enable/create one.


Quote:
There is no time left in which to 'inspire' Dem pols to become saints. What do you do when the choice is between bad and badder?
You can't make a system sufficiently good, by always voting for the lessor evil. Voting lessor evil , may incrementally slow the growth of evil, but it never promotes the growth of good. Ultimately, it greatly depends upon how long you think it will take for existential issues to destroy our nation, global civilization, planetary environment, and species. If we are already on the brink of such destructions there is no time to take or make incrementally bad choices. If there is a lot of time (centuries) we can afford a few convenient backward steps so long as they are paired with many (so far unseen) significant and big steps forward. Unfortunately, our window of opportunity is almost shut, and we, at best, have a couple of decades to act decisively on a number of these existential issues and even then we face the consequences of having waited too long and will probably end up losing the nation and the global civilization regardless of what we do, but perhaps we can still save our species and enough other species to enable a functional planetary ecosystem to be maintained.

Quote:
This prissy punishing of the bad by rewarding the badder really would be 'turning the other cheek.' Or, more aptly, biting off one's nose to spite one's face.
That nose was bitten off when Biden was foisted upon those who would vote for the opposition party in 2020.
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Old 9th August 2022, 12:00 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
in a 2-party system, you always vote for the Lesser Evil; expecting an actually Good Choice is naive.
I would prefer navet of voters aspiring to do the right thing to the suicidal psychopathy of thinking that voting for marginally less evil is anything other than the promotion of the death and destruction of everything we hold dear.
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Old 9th August 2022, 12:10 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
About Masters? I am not a fan, and I am hugely not a fan of Kelly either. I will not vote for Kelly, pure and simple. Masters could win my vote.

ETA, being the designated mole around here I do not always get around to everybody that whacks me, but I think I did mention that Kelly was a 100% no.
Yes, you did mention that Kelly was a 100% no, but you also said,
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
But I am 100% aligned against any candidate who crosses the line into 2020 Trutherism."
A line Masters clearly crosses and still does.

How is asking you a question concerning your post 'whacking' you?
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Old 9th August 2022, 12:15 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The Senate...or more accurately, the Dems... just passed the Inflation Reduction Act on climate change, healthcare, and corporate taxes against 100% Republican opposition:

No, it gave hundreds of billions in tax breaks and tens of billions in Public funds to record profit-earning corporations and major stockholders, with no accountability on how or what they spend that money for. Rewarding the price-gouging corporations and stockholders for what they've done to the workers, consumers and government of this nation over the last few decades.


Quote:
You also ignore the passage of the Affordable Care Act which, thanks to the GOP, was gutted and who fought it from the very beginning.
Indeed, I did neglect the horrors of the republican corporate welfare program passed by Obama designed to give private healthcare insurance companies the billions needed to allow them to continue to manipulate government oversight and legislation and to undermine public health initiatives and public health systems. I apologize for the personal oversight there.
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Old 9th August 2022, 12:18 PM   #370
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
When a finance major doesn't understand how recessions are even determined, much less caused, I don't have a lot of confidence that they understand the causes or solutions to inflation either.
So good, I almost ruined another keyboard!
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Old 9th August 2022, 12:21 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by Trakar View Post
I would prefer navet of voters aspiring to do the right thing to the suicidal psychopathy of thinking that voting for marginally less evil is anything other than the promotion of the death and destruction of everything we hold dear.
And where dies 'the suicidal and homicidal psychopathy of voting for the demonstrably greater evil being the greater promotion of the death and destruction of everything we hold dear' fit in this list of preferences?
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Old 9th August 2022, 12:26 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by Trakar View Post
No, it gave hundreds of billions in tax breaks and tens of billions in Public funds to record profit-earning corporations and major stockholders, with no accountability on how or what they spend that money for. Rewarding the price-gouging corporations and stockholders for what they've done to the workers, consumers and government of this nation over the last few decades.
Can you show us what provisions in the bill does all that you claim above? I'd like to know.
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:04 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
And where dies 'the suicidal and homicidal psychopathy of voting for the demonstrably greater evil being the greater promotion of the death and destruction of everything we hold dear' fit in this list of preferences?
marginally to the right of Biden and the Dimocrapic party leadership's preferred agenda.
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:15 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by Trakar View Post
marginally to the right of Biden and the Dimocrapic party leadership's preferred agenda.
Given that we do have a 2 party system, I'd think allying with the demonstrably greater evil party to attack the lesser evil party is equivalent to voting for the demonstrably greater evil party. Or at the very least it is promoting the greater evil and thus promoting the death and destruction of everything we hold dear.

But I'm funny about not cutting off my nose to spite my own face that way.
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:18 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Can you show us what provisions in the bill does all that you claim above? I'd like to know.
if you want a show (video) Sanders' Senate floor speech a few days ago, covers a lot of this, unfortunately his references are no more cited than mine. I have picked this up from several sources and will piece together a more properly supported response if you are wanting to use such for future reference and discussion.

Sanders' Speech - https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...6FORM%3DHDRSC3

This is some 38 minutes long, I will try to put together a cited synopsis of my understandings within a day or two.
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:24 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
But I'm funny about not cutting off my nose to spite my own face that way.
If you say so, I'll close my eyes and accept your beliefs about yourself.
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:37 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
Then how is that for the past 30 or more years the Rs generally leave more of a fiscal mess behind them for the Ds to fix?

Spending done wisely can be an investment. Just as the GI Bill post WW2 turned out to have been of direct positive financial gain due to the national increase in productivity.

Spending on things like infrastructure, health care and renewable energy sources pay dividends a little down the road. It sure beats handing out tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires, naively (to be charitable) expecting a goddamn cent to 'trickle down.' Indeed, just give those monies to the poor and a heck of a lot more will circulate through the economy in a spending stimulus for all manner of businesses.

The GOP has for too many decades been all about shoveling money upward, widening the wealth gap to a now obscene degree that is contributing significantly to the national malaise.


For the GOP, fiscal responsibility means tax breaks for the wealthy and corporations, gutting aid to the poor, and screaming about an alleged "Tax and Spend" policy.
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:45 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
That would be the argument for switching over but so far I just see the neocons (remember them?) taking that bridge--Bill Kristol, David Brooks, and the odious Jennifer Rubin. In fact the fiscal policies that the Democrats pursued this year were tremendously inflationary in the face of inflation the likes of which we have not seen for 40 years. I get it, I really do. Democrats feel they have to spend like drunken sailor every time they get control, but this was a really bad time to do that and the remedy is going to be really, really painful.
The nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation analysis of the Biden Inflation Reduction Act just passed:

Quote:
Marc Goldwein, senior vice president and senior policy director at the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, told us that while there is a small increase for middle-income people in the first year, by the third year of the bill, JCTs modeling shows the percentage increases are almost negligible.

In addition, Goldwein said, JCTs distributional tables do not include the benefits of individual energy tax credits, savings from the prescription drug provisions, health care subsidies and a reduction of inflation over time. If they did, he said, the net impact of the bill would be closer to zero for middle-income Americans in the early years, and over time would result in a net tax benefit for middle-income earners.

So while there would be some individuals worse off economically if the bill passes, Goldwein said, every income class overall is benefiting from the bill.

The JCTs analysis of the overall impact of the bill shows it would raise about $68 billion over 10 years. But most of that comes from the early years. In fact, by 2027, the bill would amount to a net tax cut for individuals each year, according to the JCT.
https://www.factcheck.org/2022/08/so...reduction-act/
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:48 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
That would be the argument for switching over but so far I just see the neocons (remember them?) taking that bridge--Bill Kristol, David Brooks, and the odious Jennifer Rubin. In fact the fiscal policies that the Democrats pursued this year were tremendously inflationary in the face of inflation the likes of which we have not seen for 40 years. I get it, I really do. Democrats feel they have to spend like drunken sailor every time they get control, but this was a really bad time to do that and the remedy is going to be really, really painful.
What part of "The GOP has gone fascist and anti democracy" don't you get?
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Old 10th August 2022, 05:22 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by Trakar View Post
If you say so, I'll close my eyes and accept your beliefs about yourself.
Likewise, I won't do anything more than try to talk you out of continuing to work against your own self interests by allying with the party farthest from those interests and most likely to prevent you from even being able to vote in the near future on anything that matters.
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Old 10th August 2022, 05:38 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What part of "The GOP has gone fascist and anti democracy" don't you get?
Leave Brainster alone. Some folks just long for the good old days with the honorable Republican Party of Lee Atwater, Richard Nixon, and G Gordon Liddy.
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Old 10th August 2022, 07:57 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Likewise, I won't do anything more than try to talk you out of continuing to work against your own self interests by allying with the party farthest from those interests and most likely to prevent you from even being able to vote in the near future on anything that matters.
My being violently hostile to reichwing ideology (regardless of which Mainstream American political party expresses it), may force the blue-no-matter-who lock-step PMC stooges to reject me, but that hardly makes me an ally of the neofascists and Cpitalist corporatists that I spend most of my time fighting against regardless of the feebs frustrated by my lack of respect for the party that aspires to be the new oligarchy, as opposed to the republitards who just blindly support fascism because they are allowed to worship the patriarchal oligarchs if they want to, or some such drival.
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Old 10th August 2022, 08:11 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by Trakar View Post
My being violently hostile to reichwing ideology (regardless of which Mainstream American political party expresses it), may force the blue-no-matter-who lock-step PMC stooges to reject me, but that hardly makes me an ally of the neofascists and Cpitalist corporatists that I spend most of my time fighting against regardless of the feebs frustrated by my lack of respect for the party that aspires to be the new oligarchy, as opposed to the republitards who just blindly support fascism because they are allowed to worship the patriarchal oligarchs if they want to, or some such drival.
Sure, your being violently hostile to the rightwing wouldn't make you an ally of them. Your being violently hostile to the only party that can stop them is you being an ally to the rightwing, however.

I'll totally take your word on the violent hostility to the right, as I only ever see your hostility directed towards the left.
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Old 10th August 2022, 08:12 AM   #384
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There human beings that don't chart every opinion on the Left to Right political axis.

They are called "most people."
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Old 11th August 2022, 11:25 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Sure, your being violently hostile to the rightwing wouldn't make you an ally of them. Your being violently hostile to the only party that can stop them is you being an ally to the rightwing, however.

I'll totally take your word on the violent hostility to the right, as I only ever see your hostility directed towards the left.
The "corporatist centrist neoliberal fascists" are not the Left!
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Old 11th August 2022, 11:32 AM   #386
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Why do people have politics that sounds like they are getting paid by the buzzword?

Wait... are we being paid by the buzzword?

*Clears throat* Errr I mean I would expect nothing less from a bunch of astroturfing balancing the ticket bellwether state coastal elites dark horse inside the beltway swing state wedge issue greenwashing grown in office lame duck RINO treehuggers.
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Old 11th August 2022, 11:36 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Why do people have politics that sounds like they are getting paid by the buzzword?...
the vast Twitterfication of messageboards.
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Old 11th August 2022, 11:37 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What part of "The GOP has gone fascist and anti democracy" don't you get?
and unfortunately the Dims are eagerly chasing them to the right on these issues as well.
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Old 11th August 2022, 11:39 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by Trakar View Post
and unfortunately the Dims are eagerly chasing them to the right on these issues as well.
This is one of those "You only say a statement this wrong to dare someone to argue with you" things isn't it?
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Old 11th August 2022, 11:57 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
This is one of those "You only say a statement this wrong to dare someone to argue with you" things isn't it?
no, merely the growing perception I have gotten of the Democratic party leadership over the last 3 decades or so.
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Old 11th August 2022, 02:51 PM   #391
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Beto Drops an F-Bomb on a heckler - NSFW
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Old 11th August 2022, 04:12 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
Well, frankly, that seems to be what sells in Texas.
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Old 11th August 2022, 04:47 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Well, frankly, that seems to be what sells in Texas.
It sure got the crowd riled up.
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Old 11th August 2022, 05:11 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
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Old 11th August 2022, 05:13 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Well, frankly, that seems to be what sells in Texas.
That and guns.

I like Beto. He may be the up and coming Dem.
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Old 11th August 2022, 05:16 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
OMG, that commie libartd hispano-irish fag who hates america use a bad word! Why the **** do all of us ******* white ******* Americans have to put up with the ******* commie ******* libards?

ETA: I corrected a lot of typos while I was typing that. In retrospect, I wish I hadn't.
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Old 11th August 2022, 06:37 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
OMG, that commie libartd hispano-irish fag who hates america use a bad word! Why the **** do all of us ******* white ******* Americans have to put up with the ******* commie ******* libards?

ETA: I corrected a lot of typos while I was typing that. In retrospect, I wish I hadn't.
It's Ok. You missed a couple!
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Old 16th August 2022, 07:48 PM   #398
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Liz Cheney loses her primary.
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Old 16th August 2022, 07:50 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by zorro99 View Post
Liz Cheney loses her primary.
No surprise. Wyoming is full of Trump supporting election deniers. Idiots.
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Old 16th August 2022, 10:59 PM   #400
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If there was any doubt that the GOP is the party of Trump which believes all those conspiracy theories and will win elections by fair means or foul then here's the proof.

I predict that Donald Trump will win the 2024 presidential election under dubious circumstances with at least one state submitting results which run counter to the popular vote.

Heck, depending on how well the midterms go, they may try to reinstate him.
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