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Old 3rd June 2022, 02:34 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's odd seeing people treat Fetterman as the "unelectable" candidate. Connor Lamb has never won a state-wide race, while Fetterman is a popular Lt. Governor. Lamb also got absolutely trounced in the primary and didn't even win his own home district. The reflexive instinct to conflate moderate and electable seems to be entirely unsupported by evidence in this case.
"Electable" is code for "acceptable to the wealthy elite".
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Old 3rd June 2022, 11:23 PM   #202
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I now wonder whether Biden ever even knew that the only argument that even his supporters ever came up with to vote for him was "Well, no, there's not much good about him and nobody really likes him much, but you just have to settle for him anyway". Until recently I thought he must just because the concept that he might not hadn't occurred to me.
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Old 4th June 2022, 08:57 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I now wonder whether Biden ever even knew that the only argument that even his supporters ever came up with to vote for him was "Well, no, there's not much good about him and nobody really likes him much, but you just have to settle for him anyway". Until recently I thought he must just because the concept that he might not hadn't occurred to me.
It's a difficult concept to teach to voters that we actually need someone like Biden, Romney or any other regular politician to run the country. Trump was not actually running the country. He made quick decisions of things stuck in front of him that had something to do with his favorite themes, or just him "looking good" if he did this. There was no real leader for 4 years. Putin knew it. Most American voters did not.
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Old 4th June 2022, 02:33 PM   #204
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To clarify: to trumpsters, Trump saying the same things they agreed with seemed like leadership. Then he just kept repeating claims of things he did.
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Old 7th June 2022, 05:32 PM   #205
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Okay, I live in California. I just voted today. Here is my sad adventure:

Thanks to redistricting, my polling place changed. I had to look it up on my voter guide, it's a mile and a half away (no big deal). In the parking lot, I meet a woman who is an elected official with the county fire district, and she also didn't know the polling place had changed, so that was a fun conversation. She double-checked using her phone, and we both ended up at the other polling place, the library.

Neither of us are on the sign-in sheet.

This is because, thanks to redistricting, we both now live in a "Vote-By-Mail-Only" district, and now can only vote in person with provisional ballots. We're ushered into a different room, where the poll workers look us up on laptops, and have us fill out forms. Then their laptops freeze, so they can't print labels for our ballots, and they have to call the county office to get permission for us to vote, which we received.

My ballot was the only one in the ballot box when I turned it in, at 12:45pm.

Needless to say, I was steamed. I emailed my County Supervisor to complain, and let him know his district was likely losing votes. And I emailed my Congressman to let him know as well, since every vote is supposed to count, and a lot of fellow in-person voters in my area will likely give up, and not vote this time.

To my surprise, I got a call from the County Registrar herself, apologizing for the circus. She listened to my account, and explained the issues. The State of California is hoping to force everyone to vote by mail, weather they want to or not. The state is also forcing counties to consolidate polling places (i.e. CLOSE many polling places) and open "Voting Centers". She told me she will continue to fight this as long as she can, but the county is having problems hiring poll workers, making it hard to properly staff them.

She said the trend was voting by mail, and I pointed out that as of Friday, only 15% of those mail-in ballots have been received. I pointed out that the numbers do not support the claim, and that the problem is low voter turnout has been a problem for almost three decades. Much of it has to do with the quality of candidates, and the rest has to do with the lazy attitudes of Americans. She agreed. I told her I understand, but voting in person should not be such a hassle, and she agreed to this as well.

So it pays to contact your local, state, and federal representatives.


The biggest threat to American democracy is voter apathy. Period.

You can't suppress people who can't be bothered to vote in the first place. My social media is full of people whining and complaining about the social ills of our country, and these posts get hundreds of thousands of "likes", yet on election day few show up.

As of this moment, voter turnout in California is at 18%:

https://politicaldata.com/2022-prima...urned-tracker/

I know this number will climb, but not by much. And the 18-35 age range is at 7%. I'm embarrassed for my state. Californians talk a good game, but don't show up on game day. Democracy only works if everyone votes. If you don't vote, you don't count.

Look at it this way: Every AR-15 owner will vote today. Every one of them. Only 30% of Americans own a gun of any kind, simple math would indicate that changing gun laws should be a snap. BUT... if all 30% of gun owners vote in an election with a 47% turnout, guess who's in the majority. And the machine will blame the NRA and corrupt politicians, but never say a word about those spineless American voters who choose not to vote. Trump won because voters stayed home in key states. Blame the Electoral college? Okay, but it would have been a factor had more folks voted for Hillary instead of staying home. It's that simple. The same was true for Mitt Romney, and John McCain, who could have won if it weren't for GOP voters staying home because the candidates weren't right-wing enough, and had the nerve to be pragmatic.

I'm just saying that the problem with American politics is the American People who are too lazy to vote. This place would look a lot different with a consistent 75% voter turnout for every election.

End rant.
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Old 7th June 2022, 05:35 PM   #206
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I agree voter apathy i a huge problem, but I don't see mandatory voting as a solution. You can , I guess, make people show up at the polls, but you can't make them study an issue or the candidates before voting.and having a bunch of ignorant people voting would just make matters worse. I am not a big fan of Australian style mandatory voting.
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Old 7th June 2022, 06:54 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Okay, I live in California. I just voted today. ...

To my surprise, I got a call from the County Registrar herself, apologizing for the circus. She listened to my account, and explained the issues. The State of California is hoping to force everyone to vote by mail, weather they want to or not. The state is also forcing counties to consolidate polling places (i.e. CLOSE many polling places) and open "Voting Centers". She told me she will continue to fight this as long as she can, but the county is having problems hiring poll workers, making it hard to properly staff them....

End rant.
Well they are sure going about it the wrong way. I live in WA State. They announced they were moving to all mail in ballots and implemented it. If you are registered to vote a ballot shows up in your mailbox. You can mail it back (now free, it wasn't at first) or you can drop it off in a drop box which I do because one of the boxes is at my library.

Easy peasy.
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Old 7th June 2022, 07:10 PM   #208
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Fetterman's wife says he may be back on the trail in July:

Quote:
Asked if John Fetterman, who serves as Pennsylvania's lieutenant governor, would return to campaigning by July in one of the nation's marquee Senate contests, she replied: "Maybe. I think so. That's my hope."
Note that the headline is that he may be out till July, but reading the article makes it sound like he's definitely out till then and that his coming back in July is a little on the wishful side.
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Old 7th June 2022, 09:04 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I agree voter apathy i a huge problem, but I don't see mandatory voting as a solution. You can , I guess, make people show up at the polls, but you can't make them study an issue or the candidates before voting.and having a bunch of ignorant people voting would just make matters worse. I am not a big fan of Australian style mandatory voting.
I agree. You can't force people to vote. But we should not cut any slack to those who do not.
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Old 7th June 2022, 09:09 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Well they are sure going about it the wrong way. I live in WA State. They announced they were moving to all mail in ballots and implemented it. If you are registered to vote a ballot shows up in your mailbox. You can mail it back (now free, it wasn't at first) or you can drop it off in a drop box which I do because one of the boxes is at my library.

Easy peasy.
California already does this.

I will not vote by mail. Now that mail-in ballots are considered the primary way to vote, in-person voters like me are no second-class citizens.

My mail box is a 1/4 mile away, they no longer deliver to my house, and it's for incoming mail only. We don't have an outgoing mail box, which means we have to drive into town to use the post office. If I have to drive into town anyway, I might as well just vote at the polls like grown-up.

It's convenient for wealthy people, and home owners, but not for the working poor.
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Old 7th June 2022, 10:45 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post

It's convenient for wealthy people, and home owners, but not for the working poor.
I don't understand this. If getting into town is difficult because it's a rural area, dropping it off anytime before the election would seem to be much easier than having to drive in and wait in line on election day.

Likewise, if you're working, vote by mail also seems much easier. I haven't voted in person in years.

As a side note, I had the opportunity to report votes to the AP for my small county tonight. Boring, done by 10 PM.

Only thing of interest: big topic of discussion today was apparently the "2000 Mules" film. All the MAGA voters in my rural county were fired up about it. I heard one voter ripped up his ballot and stormed out because no one had answers to his questions. (I have no idea what the questions were, but I imagine they were QAnon 101.)
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Old 7th June 2022, 11:13 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
I will not vote by mail. Now that mail-in ballots are considered the primary way to vote, in-person voters like me are no second-class citizens.

My mail box is a 1/4 mile away, they no longer deliver to my house, and it's for incoming mail only. We don't have an outgoing mail box, which means we have to drive into town to use the post office. If I have to drive into town anyway, I might as well just vote at the polls like grown-up.

It's convenient for wealthy people, and home owners, but not for the working poor.
Your arguments make absolutely no sense.

First of all, as another person pointed out, even if your mail box and polling station are the same distance away, you are still better off to vote by mail, if for no other reason than you can avoid lineups at a polling station (not to mention the greater flexibility of WHEN you might vote by mail.)

Secondly, did you ever think your situation might not be representative as a whole? You seem to be living in a rural area (possibly in a private home) and have the resources to afford a car... makes you a lot better off than your average 'working poor' person, who probably lives in the city, probably doesn't have a car, and may have trouble getting time off work to vote (lots more mailboxes around than polling places, making vote by mail better for them.)
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Old 8th June 2022, 04:32 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post

It's convenient for wealthy people, and home owners, but not for the working poor.
This makes 0 sense. I live in an apartment that also only has incoming mail, so it's mildly annoying for me to have to send any letters by mail.

That said, passing by a blue postal box, either at the post office or in the world, is far more convenient that going to a polling place. The blue post boxes are open 24/7 and I pass by many in my ordinary day to day life. There's one in front of the laundromat I use, several I pass on my way to work, and often I just throw my mail into the outgoing pile at my workplace.

I can't imagine any scenario where attending a limited hours polling location is more convenient than dropping off a letter into the countless post boxes that exist.

Surely on any drive to a polling place you pass multiple post office boxes or other opportunities to post mail 24/7 at your convenience.

Even when lived in a podunk town that didn't have home mail delivery and I had to drive to my local post office to use a PO box, there was a slot on accessible 24hrs for dropping off mail.

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Old 8th June 2022, 05:11 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
California already does this.

I will not vote by mail. Now that mail-in ballots are considered the primary way to vote, in-person voters like me are no second-class citizens.

My mail box is a 1/4 mile away, they no longer deliver to my house, and it's for incoming mail only. We don't have an outgoing mail box, which means we have to drive into town to use the post office. If I have to drive into town anyway, I might as well just vote at the polls like grown-up.

It's convenient for wealthy people, and home owners, but not for the working poor.
Unless, because of work commitments, you cannot get to your local polling station during opening hours and/or don't want to have to stand in line for hours to be able to vote, in which case being able to drop off your ballot in a postbox at a time least inconvenient to yourself would be better.
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Old 8th June 2022, 05:44 AM   #215
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I think those that are posting reasoned arguments back to Axxman300 may be missing the fact his position is emotional not rational...the clue is in this bit of his post: "If I have to drive into town anyway, I might as well just vote at the polls like grown-up". He is clearly going out of his way to avoid postal voting because he just disagrees with it for 'reasons'.

I suspect I could also guess his political leanings...

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Old 8th June 2022, 06:30 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
California already does this.

I will not vote by mail. Now that mail-in ballots are considered the primary way to vote, in-person voters like me are no second-class citizens.

My mail box is a 1/4 mile away, they no longer deliver to my house, and it's for incoming mail only. We don't have an outgoing mail box, which means we have to drive into town to use the post office. If I have to drive into town anyway, I might as well just vote at the polls like grown-up.

It's convenient for wealthy people, and home owners, but not for the working poor
.
That is extraordinarily unusual. Especially the outgoing bit, I'd love to see a picture, the standard these days is a box with several homes incoming, a large box for larger packages, and outgoing slot. My Dad's in CA looks exactly like the one I have in CO.

Of course, my home town never had home delivery of mail except for a few select houses after I left town. When I was a kid, we all had to got to the post office, then they switched to the collective boxes, except for my Dad's house, because he shared a block with the town corporate yard and a church.

Regardless, is going to the nearest post box harder than voting in person? Don't get me wrong, I favor in person voting as I think the common ritual is useful for building civic mindedness and I think voting should require some effort.

As for the underlined bit, I suppose there may be exceptions but voting by mail is clearly more convenient for the vast majority of people including the working poor. What's more convenient, getting to a polling polling place at a particular time frame on a tuesday, or dropping the ballot in the mail in some limited but much larger time frame before that tuesday?

Last edited by ahhell; 8th June 2022 at 06:34 AM.
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Old 8th June 2022, 09:42 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Your arguments make absolutely no sense.

First of all, as another person pointed out, even if your mail box and polling station are the same distance away, you are still better off to vote by mail, if for no other reason than you can avoid lineups at a polling station (not to mention the greater flexibility of WHEN you might vote by mail.)

Secondly, did you ever think your situation might not be representative as a whole? You seem to be living in a rural area (possibly in a private home) and have the resources to afford a car... makes you a lot better off than your average 'working poor' person, who probably lives in the city, probably doesn't have a car, and may have trouble getting time off work to vote (lots more mailboxes around than polling places, making vote by mail better for them.)
In the cities it is easy to find a mail box.

You know what makes no sense? 19% voter turnout in a state where they mailed EVERY VOTER a ballot and an envelope with prepaid postage. If voting by mail is so easy then why did 80% skip it? Voter turnout in non-Presidential elections are historically low, but 2022's primary election in California will likely set the record for lowest.

There is a major disconnect between the myth of voter access, and actually voting. Maybe Americans are just too comfortable, but how can so many sit this one out? 80% of Californians couldn't take 2 minutes to fill out a ballot? We've learned nothing from 2016 and 2020.
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Old 8th June 2022, 10:10 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
In the cities it is easy to find a mail box.

You know what makes no sense? 19% voter turnout in a state where they mailed EVERY VOTER a ballot and an envelope with prepaid postage. If voting by mail is so easy then why did 80% skip it? Voter turnout in non-Presidential elections are historically low, but 2022's primary election in California will likely set the record for lowest.

There is a major disconnect between the myth of voter access, and actually voting. Maybe Americans are just too comfortable, but how can so many sit this one out? 80% of Californians couldn't take 2 minutes to fill out a ballot? We've learned nothing from 2016 and 2020.
It's California, 90+% of the state is either so red or so blue it doesn't matter. You'll mostly have two Dems to vote for in November with a few places where you'll have two Reps.

I'm curious how this turn out compares to historical turnout for primaries, I'm guessing its not that different.

Lastly, to the extent it is different, I expect that the current political climate is such that most voters that aren't paying attention the the latest twitter scandal find politics so distasteful that they just don't want to get involved.

Edit to add:
https://cid.usc.edu/california-voter-turnout

It is lower than is historically normal, but not that much lower.

Last edited by ahhell; 8th June 2022 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 8th June 2022, 11:28 AM   #219
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CLear from the results of the California primary that mainstream Dems still have a lot of power in the party and that the Progressive wing ignores and ridicules them at their own peril and that public safety is a big issue to most voters.
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Old 8th June 2022, 11:39 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Okay, I live in California. I just voted today. Here is my sad adventure:

Thanks to redistricting, my polling place changed. I had to look it up on my voter guide, it's a mile and a half away (no big deal). In the parking lot, I meet a woman who is an elected official with the county fire district, and she also didn't know the polling place had changed, so that was a fun conversation. She double-checked using her phone, and we both ended up at the other polling place, the library.

Neither of us are on the sign-in sheet.

This is because, thanks to redistricting, we both now live in a "Vote-By-Mail-Only" district, and now can only vote in person with provisional ballots. We're ushered into a different room, where the poll workers look us up on laptops, and have us fill out forms. Then their laptops freeze, so they can't print labels for our ballots, and they have to call the county office to get permission for us to vote, which we received.

My ballot was the only one in the ballot box when I turned it in, at 12:45pm.

Needless to say, I was steamed. I emailed my County Supervisor to complain, and let him know his district was likely losing votes. And I emailed my Congressman to let him know as well, since every vote is supposed to count, and a lot of fellow in-person voters in my area will likely give up, and not vote this time.

To my surprise, I got a call from the County Registrar herself, apologizing for the circus. She listened to my account, and explained the issues. The State of California is hoping to force everyone to vote by mail, weather they want to or not. The state is also forcing counties to consolidate polling places (i.e. CLOSE many polling places) and open "Voting Centers". She told me she will continue to fight this as long as she can, but the county is having problems hiring poll workers, making it hard to properly staff them.

She said the trend was voting by mail, and I pointed out that as of Friday, only 15% of those mail-in ballots have been received. I pointed out that the numbers do not support the claim, and that the problem is low voter turnout has been a problem for almost three decades. Much of it has to do with the quality of candidates, and the rest has to do with the lazy attitudes of Americans. She agreed. I told her I understand, but voting in person should not be such a hassle, and she agreed to this as well.

So it pays to contact your local, state, and federal representatives.


The biggest threat to American democracy is voter apathy. Period.

You can't suppress people who can't be bothered to vote in the first place. My social media is full of people whining and complaining about the social ills of our country, and these posts get hundreds of thousands of "likes", yet on election day few show up.

As of this moment, voter turnout in California is at 18%:

https://politicaldata.com/2022-prima...urned-tracker/

I know this number will climb, but not by much. And the 18-35 age range is at 7%. I'm embarrassed for my state. Californians talk a good game, but don't show up on game day. Democracy only works if everyone votes. If you don't vote, you don't count.

Look at it this way: Every AR-15 owner will vote today. Every one of them. Only 30% of Americans own a gun of any kind, simple math would indicate that changing gun laws should be a snap. BUT... if all 30% of gun owners vote in an election with a 47% turnout, guess who's in the majority. And the machine will blame the NRA and corrupt politicians, but never say a word about those spineless American voters who choose not to vote. Trump won because voters stayed home in key states. Blame the Electoral college? Okay, but it would have been a factor had more folks voted for Hillary instead of staying home. It's that simple. The same was true for Mitt Romney, and John McCain, who could have won if it weren't for GOP voters staying home because the candidates weren't right-wing enough, and had the nerve to be pragmatic.

I'm just saying that the problem with American politics is the American People who are too lazy to vote. This place would look a lot different with a consistent 75% voter turnout for every election.

End rant.
A People gets the Government it deserves. If the Orange Excrescence should get hoist back into the WH, the US people will deserve it. Perhaps a really calamitous period is what's needed to get enough citizens to realize that democracy must always be fought for. No sitting on the sidelines, foolishly believing the system will take care of itself.
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Old 8th June 2022, 11:48 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
A People gets the Government it deserves. If the Orange Excrescence should get hoist back into the WH, the US people will deserve it. Perhaps a really calamitous period is what's needed to get enough citizens to realize that democracy must always be fought for. No sitting on the sidelines, foolishly believing the system will take care of itself.
It's hard to read into a non-voter's intent. Perhaps they think things are going fine and will "take care of itself". Perhaps it's an expression of in the perceived pointlessness of voting.

The choice between a party that is suspiciously bad at delivering on any of its promises and another party that is outwardly, cartoonishly evil. Not exactly a choice to be excited about. Maybe voters are deciding they're too busy washing their hair than participate in this charade.
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Old 8th June 2022, 12:12 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
CLear from the results of the California primary that mainstream Dems still have a lot of power in the party and that the Progressive wing ignores and ridicules them at their own peril and that public safety is a big issue to most voters.
This whole article is worth reading, but the conclusion for brevity:

Quote:
On the same night San Francisco recalled its progressive DA, a progressive prosecutor took the lead in Alameda County, a far more populous county than San Francisco, where violent crime well and truly is a problem, both statistically as well as anecdotally. The police-endorsed DA candidate is losing to a progressive in Contra Costa County as well. Schubert, again, finished a distant fourth in the AG race. But, apparently, “California sent Democrats and the nation a message on crime.”

In San Francisco, meanwhile, the last Black neighborhood is the county jail. And that’s the way things were before we recalled the progressive DA.

This, again, is the city whose very name is a stand-in for liberal values. And, when you think about it, that Means Something.
https://missionlocal.org/2022/06/chesa-boudin-recall/

Color me shocked that yuppie liberals are highly susceptible to "crime wave" type copaganda. For all their supposed liberal virtues, they just want the whole city to be run like an gated community with an aggressive HOA.

San Fran became some sort of mascot for a certain strain of liberalism, but we should be cautious before extrapolating wildly from a single data point. As the article points out, as many people live in Columbus, Ohio.

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Old 8th June 2022, 01:59 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
That is extraordinarily unusual. Especially the outgoing bit, I'd love to see a picture, the standard these days is a box with several homes incoming, a large box for larger packages, and outgoing slot. My Dad's in CA looks exactly like the one I have in CO.

Of course, my home town never had home delivery of mail except for a few select houses after I left town. When I was a kid, we all had to got to the post office, then they switched to the collective boxes, except for my Dad's house, because he shared a block with the town corporate yard and a church.

Regardless, is going to the nearest post box harder than voting in person? Don't get me wrong, I favor in person voting as I think the common ritual is useful for building civic mindedness and I think voting should require some effort.

As for the underlined bit, I suppose there may be exceptions but voting by mail is clearly more convenient for the vast majority of people including the working poor. What's more convenient, getting to a polling polling place at a particular time frame on a tuesday, or dropping the ballot in the mail in some limited but much larger time frame before that tuesday?
Most of the rural mailboxes I've seen have a flag on the side. Raise the flag and it notifies the postal carrier that there is outgoing mail inside to be picked up.
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Old 8th June 2022, 02:09 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
Most of the rural mailboxes I've seen have a flag on the side. Raise the flag and it notifies the postal carrier that there is outgoing mail inside to be picked up.
Most rural folks still have home delivery/pickup, its city folks that have to drag their asses to the collective box on the corner. Suburban folks anyway.
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Old 8th June 2022, 02:44 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post

The biggest threat to American democracy is voter apathy. Period.
Over 12% of mail in ballots were tossed in the trash this year in Texas.

Trump tried to negate an entire Presidential election by appointing judges, stacking the SCOTUS, and launching lawsuits after the election.

Trump tried to force Georgia to "find" enough votes for him to win.

Trump also instructed Pence, the Vice President, to stop the certification of electoral votes.

Republicans currently embrace Trumpism, condoning all of this.

Now try that again.

Here I'll try one: "The Republican party is the biggest threat to American Democracy. Period." I've listed a few arguments for it above.

Your argument against mail in ballots has already been picked apart so I won't bother.
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Old 8th June 2022, 02:53 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
In the cities it is easy to find a mail box.

You know what makes no sense? 19% voter turnout in a state where they mailed EVERY VOTER a ballot and an envelope with prepaid postage. If voting by mail is so easy then why did 80% skip it? Voter turnout in non-Presidential elections are historically low, but 2022's primary election in California will likely set the record for lowest.

There is a major disconnect between the myth of voter access, and actually voting. Maybe Americans are just too comfortable, but how can so many sit this one out? 80% of Californians couldn't take 2 minutes to fill out a ballot? We've learned nothing from 2016 and 2020.
Was that low turnout for the primary?
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Old 8th June 2022, 02:55 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
It's California, 90+% of the state is either so red or so blue it doesn't matter. You'll mostly have two Dems to vote for in November with a few places where you'll have two Reps. ...
That could certainly be an important variable.
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Old 8th June 2022, 02:59 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's hard to read into a non-voter's intent. Perhaps they think things are going fine and will "take care of itself". Perhaps it's an expression of in the perceived pointlessness of voting.

The choice between a party that is suspiciously bad at delivering on any of its promises and another party that is outwardly, cartoonishly evil. Not exactly a choice to be excited about. Maybe voters are deciding they're too busy washing their hair than participate in this charade.
If you are implying the GOP carries through on their campaign promises, that's a myth, in particular a Rump myth.

What Rump did succeed at besides growing a cult, is grifting and sending taxpayer dollars to himself and to some cronies that knew how to play him. He did all that and still managed to bamboozle his followers.
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Old 8th June 2022, 11:23 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
This whole article is worth reading, but the conclusion for brevity:



https://missionlocal.org/2022/06/chesa-boudin-recall/

Color me shocked that yuppie liberals are highly susceptible to "crime wave" type copaganda. For all their supposed liberal virtues, they just want the whole city to be run like an gated community with an aggressive HOA.

San Fran became some sort of mascot for a certain strain of liberalism, but we should be cautious before extrapolating wildly from a single data point. As the article points out, as many people live in Columbus, Ohio.
As if that comparison means anything. We all know what it means when a liberal loses in San Francisco--usually it means they were not liberal enough. Not this time around. The whole "defund the police" thing has gone away; nowadays Democrats can't distance themselves far enough away from that slogan. But the voters remember who wanted to put more sociology majors on the streets.

Boudin himself is one of those "only in SF" stories--the child of terrorists raised by another terrorist couple becomes the chief LEO. What a shock that he blew it.
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Old 9th June 2022, 04:18 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
As if that comparison means anything. We all know what it means when a liberal loses in San Francisco--usually it means they were not liberal enough. Not this time around. The whole "defund the police" thing has gone away; nowadays Democrats can't distance themselves far enough away from that slogan. But the voters remember who wanted to put more sociology majors on the streets.

Boudin himself is one of those "only in SF" stories--the child of terrorists raised by another terrorist couple becomes the chief LEO. What a shock that he blew it.
Yes, that's the leap of logic that many people critical of progressive DA policies are hoping is true. Boudin himself seems to be kind of a jerk and has had legendarily bad gaffes (calling a murder a "temper tantrum" is one) that have made him an easy target for recall.

If San Fran votes in some "tough on crime" type to replace him then I suppose the claim has merit. I suspect that many of the policies will remain more or less in place, but with someone less toxic in the position.
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Old 9th June 2022, 05:51 AM   #231
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E-Freaking-Gads, I want to tear my eyeballs out and throw them at the TV!
The Illinois Republican primary can not end soon enough and for gosh sakes people, TRUMP is NOT President, and who really cares who kisses his ass and who hates him, really?
All but one of the candidates is making their campaign about how much they love Trump or how bad their opponent talks about Trump, and Trump Trump and more Trump, it's like some twisted version of the Python Spam sketch only with Trump.
And these ads are showing up in nearly every commercial break now.
My brain hurts.
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Old 9th June 2022, 06:02 AM   #232
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If the GOP keeps hamnering the phrases "Biden caused inflation" and "gas is expensive," how does that get them elected? It's not like "free market" is going to fix this. Not even Trump tariffs are going to fix this.

And why do we still have some Trump tariffs?
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Old 9th June 2022, 06:09 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
If the GOP keeps hamnering the phrases "Biden caused inflation" and "gas is expensive," how does that get them elected? It's not like "free market" is going to fix this. Not even Trump tariffs are going to fix this.

And why do we still have some Trump tariffs?
You know that electing a Republican won't lower inflation or gas prices.
I know that, too.
The GOP is counting on the fact that most voters won't know that.
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Old 9th June 2022, 06:28 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
If the GOP keeps hamnering the phrases "Biden caused inflation" and "gas is expensive," how does that get them elected? It's not like "free market" is going to fix this. Not even Trump tariffs are going to fix this.

And why do we still have some Trump tariffs?
Not much different from phrases like, "putin's inflation" or back in the day, "bush's recession." Typical politics, not in anyway unique to Reps to blame the sitting president for all the ills of society or for the president to take credit for all good things. They're just reminding people of the wrong thing they already believe.

The tariff question is a good one though, there still in place because anti-trade populism is popular on both sides of the aisle, has been for decades.

Bush had steel tarriffs that were bad for the economy, Obama had tire tariffs of all things. We've had sugar tarriffs for decades before that and the buy American provisions in government contracting have been an ill concieved pain in the ass since the recession in the 2000s.
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Old 9th June 2022, 07:09 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
You know that electing a Republican won't lower inflation or gas prices.
I know that, too.
The GOP is counting on the fact that most voters won't know that.
Sure, but media coverage will change. Right wing media will drop stories of inflation and other economic woe entirely, and even many "mainstream" outlets will change their coverage even as current trends continue largely the same.

Perception is reality.
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Old 9th June 2022, 07:25 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Sure, but media coverage will change. Right wing media will drop stories of inflation and other economic woe entirely, and even many "mainstream" outlets will change their coverage even as current trends continue largely the same.

Perception is reality.
Yeah, the way some/most mainstream media outlets try to appear fair and balanced by presenting right wing nuttery as plausible certainly doesn't help.
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Old 9th June 2022, 07:45 AM   #237
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Or the way mainstream media ignores the very real issues on the border, like kids in cages until there's Republican President.
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Old 9th June 2022, 08:25 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Or the way mainstream media ignores the very real issues on the border, like kids in cages until there's Republican President.
Do you honestly believe this is what happened? That there was zero difference in "kids in cages" policy or implementation between Presidents, and it was fine until Trump was in charge? Or is this a cheap rhetorical ploy that is meant to fall apart if one has the slightest bit of knowledge on the subject?
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Old 9th June 2022, 08:27 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Unless, because of work commitments, you cannot get to your local polling station during opening hours and/or don't want to have to stand in line for hours to be able to vote, in which case being able to drop off your ballot in a postbox at a time least inconvenient to yourself would be better.
Almost unbelievably (cause we generally suck at everything), here in New Mexico we got it right. Want to mail in your ballot? Go for it. Want to vote early, including the 2 weekends before the election? Go for it. Wait til the actual election day like me? Go for it, and because of the first two options I was 2nd in line at my polling location.
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Old 9th June 2022, 08:33 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Do you honestly believe this is what happened? That there was zero difference in "kids in cages" policy or implementation between Presidents, and it was fine until Trump was in charge? Or is this a cheap rhetorical ploy that is meant to fall apart if one has the slightest bit of knowledge on the subject?
They then illustrated the point by showing photos taken under the previous administration. There were a number of similar stories in the first year or so of Trumps administration. Defending a lawsuit started under the Obama administration was used to demonstrate is evilness towards illegal immigrants. There was a story that hit big about the use of tear gas at the border but the same thing happening dozens of times during the Obama administration got no note. There was a consistent pattern regarding coverage of the border during the Trump administration.
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