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Old 9th June 2022, 08:35 AM   #241
wareyin
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
They then illustrated the point by showing photos taken under the previous administration. There were a number of similar stories in the first year or so of Trumps administration. Defending a lawsuit started under the Obama administration was used to demonstrate is evilness towards illegal immigrants. There was a story that hit big about the use of tear gas at the border but the same thing happening dozens of times during the Obama administration got no note. There was a consistent pattern regarding coverage of the border during the Trump administration.
Ah, so cheap rhetorical ploy meant to only sound true to those ignorant of the real differences between the zero tolerance Trump instituted vs the situation pre-Trump. Thanks!
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Old 9th June 2022, 08:45 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Ah, so cheap rhetorical ploy meant to only sound true to those ignorant of the real differences between the zero tolerance Trump instituted vs the situation pre-Trump. Thanks!
Its media criticism. Trumps zero tolerance policy was worst than Obamas, but not all that much worse and the coverage was straight up ********. This all started with the complaint about media giving right wing crazies equal time to right thinking lefties. I'm merely pointing out that the media generally sucks its not all the one way.

A better parallel is the way the media covers Defund the Police or Robin DeAngelis etal. Acting light those ideas are anywhere near the mainstream of American thought is, well just silly.
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Old 9th June 2022, 08:51 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Its media criticism. Trumps zero tolerance policy was worst than Obamas, but not all that much worse and the coverage was straight up ********. This all started with the complaint about media giving right wing crazies equal time to right thinking lefties. I'm merely pointing out that the media generally sucks its not all the one way.
"Not all that much worse" huh?
The complaint was about mainstream media legitimizing right wing talking points to appear balanced and unbiased. You responded with right wing media talking points that required ignorance of the subject to be believed. We can agree that right wing media sucks, but showing how they misinform their audience doesn't really say anything about mainstream media.

Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
A better parallel is the way the media covers Defund the Police or Robin DeAngelis etal. Acting light those ideas are anywhere near the mainstream of American thought is, well just silly.
Again, using right wing media talking points that require ignorance of the subject to believe to claim that mainstream media is in the wrong somehow is not really a compelling argument.
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Old 9th June 2022, 09:24 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's hard to read into a non-voter's intent. Perhaps they think things are going fine and will "take care of itself". Perhaps it's an expression of in the perceived pointlessness of voting.

The choice between a party that is suspiciously bad at delivering on any of its promises and another party that is outwardly, cartoonishly evil. Not exactly a choice to be excited about. Maybe voters are deciding they're too busy washing their hair than participate in this charade.
If you see the Dems as "suspiciously bad" at delivering legislation, you, like the rest of the easily bamboozled populace, have lost sight of the GQP's principal operating principle of obstructionism via the formality of the fillibuster. Under Moscow Mitch, the Senate has become the place where bills go to die.

Of course, two bought and paid for Dem Senators, snakes in the grass both, only impede progress more tragically.

The two Party system is further revealing its fatal flaws.
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Old 9th June 2022, 03:36 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
You know that electing a Republican won't lower inflation or gas prices.
I know that, too.
The GOP is counting on the fact that most voters won't know that.
I hope by now the Democrats will use the material they have: Republicans always offer to fix everything but never have any plans to do so.

Going to repeal and replace the ACA? Sure, how did that work out for them?
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Old 9th June 2022, 03:53 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I hope by now the Democrats will use the material they have: Republicans always offer to fix everything but never have any plans to do so.

Going to repeal and replace the ACA? Sure, how did that work out for them?
I think the republicans have given up even faking it on real plans. The ads I'm seeing are fear, fear and more fear.
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Old 9th June 2022, 07:52 PM   #247
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I goes beyond that: Republicans have realized that the US system makes it impossible to pass any meaningful legislation that doesn't result in a massive handout to political donors.
So they don't even try.
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Old 9th June 2022, 09:13 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I goes beyond that: Republicans have realized that the US system makes it impossible to pass any meaningful legislation that doesn't result in a massive handout to political donors.
So they don't even try.
Sure they do. It's called letting ALEC write the legislation.
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Old 9th June 2022, 09:20 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Sure they do. It's called letting ALEC write the legislation.
that's not meaningful, that's just serving their base.
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Old 12th June 2022, 07:53 PM   #250
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Bill Maher in one of his funny commentaries about political ads:

(NSFW—language)
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 28th June 2022, 05:21 PM   #251
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Primary night in quite a few states. Allahpundit points out that the Democrats have been spending boatloads of cash to support MAGA-type candidates in primaries against more moderate Republicans. It's a risky strategy at best. And:

Quote:
They can’t claim that democracy is under threat talking out of one side of their mouth and then encourage Republicans to vote for “rigged election” cranks on the other.
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Old 28th June 2022, 09:24 PM   #252
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I am 100% in support of the strategy to get the most radical Republicans nominated.

The reason being that, legislatively, it makes no difference to Democrats, as not even the most moderate Republicans in Congress do to even the minimum bipartisanship on vital issues.

If there can't be any cooperation with the GOP anyway, helping to make it as dysfunctional as possible the the next best thing Democrats can do.
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Old 28th June 2022, 11:34 PM   #253
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I can see theoretical reasons to expect it to fail or to succeed, but I don't care about theory; I care about what works. And Democrats so consistently do what fails and run away from what would work that I'm sure this will be another failure, just because it if weren't bound to fail they wouldn't do it. (And they always have theoretical explanations for why what fails should work and what works should fail...)
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Old 29th June 2022, 01:21 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I am 100% in support of the strategy to get the most radical Republicans nominated.

The reason being that, legislatively, it makes no difference to Democrats, as not even the most moderate Republicans in Congress do to even the minimum bipartisanship on vital issues.

If there can't be any cooperation with the GOP anyway, helping to make it as dysfunctional as possible the the next best thing Democrats can do.
I disagree. Those MAGA candidates will likely motivate GOP supporters to turn out and vote and end up with them being elected.

This in turn will drag the GOP even further to the extremist right resulting in state parties even more dedicated to undermining democracy.
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Old 29th June 2022, 01:36 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I disagree. Those MAGA candidates will likely motivate GOP supporters to turn out and vote and end up with them being elected.

This in turn will drag the GOP even further to the extremist right resulting in state parties even more dedicated to undermining democracy.
That ship has sailed past the horizon
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Old 29th June 2022, 04:35 AM   #256
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There will be quite a lot of money spent between now and Nov on ads. Maybe the most ever in a non-presidential election.

Boebert will have a serious Dem opponent.
https://kdvr.com/news/politics/adam-...onal-district/
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Old 29th June 2022, 06:19 AM   #257
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How does one win an election in red states in districts that are about 50/50 as far as voters go? They throw in a lot of money into Fox Channel ads.
Then you mention abortion. And you must include "radical democrat" in the attack ads. And that is all there is to it. No taxes need to be mentioned, it is assumed.
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Old 29th June 2022, 09:16 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I can see theoretical reasons to expect it to fail or to succeed, but I don't care about theory; I care about what works. And Democrats so consistently do what fails and run away from what would work that I'm sure this will be another failure, just because it if weren't bound to fail they wouldn't do it. (And they always have theoretical explanations for why what fails should work and what works should fail...)
Axios points out the problem. In Colorado, Democrats spent $4 million on ads supporting election crank Ron Hanks and blasting Joe O'Dea as insufficiently conservative (one ad even showed him as Biden's puppet).

Quote:
But if O'Dea wins, their efforts to highlight his past support of Democrats — and make him appear GOP-lite — might improve his chances against Bennet by inoculating him on issues like guns, partisan gridlock, and even abortion.
You can probably guess what happened last night; O'Dea won 55%-45%.

BTW, this is a very old political tactic, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Hillary Clinton's campaign encouraged the media's wall-to-wall coverage of Donald Trump, because they saw him as the weakest candidate. Oooops!
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Old 29th June 2022, 09:18 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
How does one win an election in red states in districts that are about 50/50 as far as voters go? They throw in a lot of money into Fox Channel ads.
Then you mention abortion. And you must include "radical democrat" in the attack ads. And that is all there is to it. No taxes need to be mentioned, it is assumed.
And it helps if you are running against a very unpopular president.
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Old 29th June 2022, 03:30 PM   #260
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Marist Poll: Americans Swing To Democratic Party 48 To 41 After Roe Decision

I don't know why some of the doomsayers in this thread and even on the news have ignored this influence. Everyone should have seen this coming.

If inflation including gas prices fall before Nov, we'll keep both houses.

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Old 29th June 2022, 03:56 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Marist Poll: Americans Swing To Democratic Party 48 To 41 After Roe Decision

I don't know why some of the doomsayers in this thread and even on the news have ignored this influence. Everyone should have seen this coming.

If inflation including gas prices fall before Nov, we'll keep both houses.
Hope you're right.
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Old 29th June 2022, 04:05 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Axios points out the problem. In Colorado, Democrats spent $4 million on ads supporting election crank Ron Hanks and blasting Joe O'Dea as insufficiently conservative (one ad even showed him as Biden's puppet).



You can probably guess what happened last night; O'Dea won 55%-45%.

BTW, this is a very old political tactic, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Hillary Clinton's campaign encouraged the media's wall-to-wall coverage of Donald Trump, because they saw him as the weakest candidate. Oooops!
Still in denial about how far to the right the GOP has gone, I see.
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Old 29th June 2022, 04:26 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Still in denial about how far to the right the GOP has gone, I see.
Eh? I was pointing out how great it was that a Republican election crank got defeated despite getting $4 million in advertising from the Democrats.

Just got tired of bitching at the liberals for being all teenage angsty over Roe?
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Old 30th June 2022, 06:25 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Marist Poll: Americans Swing To Democratic Party 48 To 41 After Roe Decision

I don't know why some of the doomsayers in this thread and even on the news have ignored this influence. Everyone should have seen this coming.

If inflation including gas prices fall before Nov, we'll keep both houses.
From your lips to the ballot box. But you realize that isn't going to be enough, right? Not anymore. Democrats can't just expect to hang on and everything will go back to normal on its own. That's all they've been doing since Bush the Lesser. They are going to have to use the present, momentary advantage to nuke the filibuster, and stack the SC with justices that are as far left as Rapist, Beer Bro and Handmaiden are far right. Otherwise nothing they do is going to matter. Not even the piddly incremental baby steps are going to survive legal challenge.

And they're going to need to do it in the next two years, because we already know Clarence Thomas (at least) is an insurrectionist and will vote to overturn the 2024 election if Rs lose and it gets to his court.
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Old 30th June 2022, 08:17 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
From your lips to the ballot box. But you realize that isn't going to be enough, right? Not anymore. Democrats can't just expect to hang on and everything will go back to normal on its own. That's all they've been doing since Bush the Lesser. They are going to have to use the present, momentary advantage to nuke the filibuster, and stack the SC with justices that are as far left as Rapist, Beer Bro and Handmaiden are far right. Otherwise nothing they do is going to matter. Not even the piddly incremental baby steps are going to survive legal challenge.

And they're going to need to do it in the next two years, because we already know Clarence Thomas (at least) is an insurrectionist and will vote to overturn the 2024 election if Rs lose and it gets to his court.
To save democracy we must kill it.
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Old 30th June 2022, 09:28 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
To save democracy we must kill it.
you clearly didn't understand Beelzebuddy's post.

there is nothing democratic about the filibuster.
And the SC, by its design principle, is long overdue for an expansion.
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Old 30th June 2022, 12:17 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
From your lips to the ballot box. But you realize that isn't going to be enough, right? Not anymore. Democrats can't just expect to hang on and everything will go back to normal on its own. That's all they've been doing since Bush the Lesser. They are going to have to use the present, momentary advantage to nuke the filibuster, and stack the SC with justices that are as far left as Rapist, Beer Bro and Handmaiden are far right. Otherwise nothing they do is going to matter. Not even the piddly incremental baby steps are going to survive legal challenge.

And they're going to need to do it in the next two years, because we already know Clarence Thomas (at least) is an insurrectionist and will vote to overturn the 2024 election if Rs lose and it gets to his court.
Or maybe :

Do we have a Debbie Downer emoji?

What is the point of all this naysaying when it's only been a week since Roe was officially overturned, the SCOTUS just gutted the EPA, and new information was released from the J6 hearings?

Could you wait a couple weeks and reassess? Or does all this hopeless doom and gloom suit you for some reason?
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Old 30th June 2022, 02:28 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Or maybe :

Do we have a Debbie Downer emoji?

What is the point of all this naysaying when it's only been a week since Roe was officially overturned, the SCOTUS just gutted the EPA, and new information was released from the J6 hearings?

Could you wait a couple weeks and reassess? Or does all this hopeless doom and gloom suit you for some reason?
And his idea has about much chance of happening in the real world as a snowball in hell.
I think thise forums have become a lot more about venting then actual discussion.
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Old 30th June 2022, 07:39 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
From your lips to the ballot box. But you realize that isn't going to be enough, right? Not anymore. Democrats can't just expect to hang on and everything will go back to normal on its own. That's all they've been doing since Bush the Lesser. They are going to have to use the present, momentary advantage to nuke the filibuster, and stack the SC with justices that are as far left as Rapist, Beer Bro and Handmaiden are far right. Otherwise nothing they do is going to matter. Not even the piddly incremental baby steps are going to survive legal challenge.

And they're going to need to do it in the next two years, because we already know Clarence Thomas (at least) is an insurrectionist and will vote to overturn the 2024 election if Rs lose and it gets to his court.
It's difficult to achieve much. The job of president seems big, now. Wait till we have two more democrats in a row, they will whittle away more presidential powers.

We thought Trump was awful as president. But he did not achieve those things either. He did very little. It was McConnell that got the 3 judges. The Democratic judges should have the sense to retire once health problems appear AND there is a Democrat for a president.
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Old 30th June 2022, 09:25 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Marist Poll: Americans Swing To Democratic Party 48 To 41 After Roe Decision

I don't know why some of the doomsayers in this thread and even on the news have ignored this influence. Everyone should have seen this coming.

If inflation including gas prices fall before Nov, we'll keep both houses.
You are, of course, forgetting how deeply gerrymandered the districts are.

Sentiment polls do not correspond to votes cast do not correspond to the resulting proportion of seats.
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Old 30th June 2022, 09:42 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
You are, of course, forgetting how deeply gerrymandered the districts are.

Sentiment polls do not correspond to votes cast do not correspond to the resulting proportion of seats.
Not forgetting. They haven't won all the battles. We have that other issue of voter suppression to deal with as well.

I remain an optimist.
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Old 30th June 2022, 10:04 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Not forgetting. They haven't won all the battles. We have that other issue of voter suppression to deal with as well.

I remain an optimist.
Hat's off. I remain a pessimist.

Whatever gerrymandering battles that are not yet settled will probably get to SCOTUS and I think we know how that will turn out.
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Old 30th June 2022, 10:16 PM   #273
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the urgency with which the GOP and this SC are destroying everything suggests to me that they themselves don't think their majority and influence will last.
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Old 30th June 2022, 10:20 PM   #274
PitPat
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
the urgency with which the GOP and this SC are destroying everything suggests to me that they themselves don't think their majority and influence will last.
Well considering the ages of the conservative justices, I think it will last for a long time.
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Old 1st July 2022, 11:40 AM   #275
Tero
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There is no law saying the judges have to be life time appointments. In fact the supreme court is as loose as the rest of the constitution. we just need to have a court. In case the states fight.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the...dicial-branch/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judiciary_Act_of_1789

judicial review is not part of the constitution.

Another piece of "settled law" to unsettle:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marbury_v._Madison
Quote:
This brought Marshall to the third question: did the Supreme Court have proper jurisdiction over the case that would allow it to issue the writ of mandamus?[25] The answer depended entirely on how the Court interpreted the text of the Judiciary Act of 1789.
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Last edited by Tero; 1st July 2022 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 1st July 2022, 12:25 PM   #276
Stacyhs
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I agree with term limits and no second nomination for another term.
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Old 1st July 2022, 02:41 PM   #277
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by PitPat View Post
Well considering the ages of the conservative justices, I think it will last for a long time.
Alito and Thomas are in their 70s. Roberts and Sotomayor are close but women live longer than men on average.

Thomas had an infection requiring IV antibiotics a couple of months ago that put him in the hospital.

Thomas discharged

It's uncommon to need IV antibiotics if you are a healthy elderly person. Makes me wonder if he has skipped a lot of vaccines like COVID, flu and pneumococcal vaccines.
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Old 6th July 2022, 03:06 PM   #278
Segnosaur
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
How does one win an election in red states in districts that are about 50/50 as far as voters go? They throw in a lot of money into Fox Channel ads.
Then you mention abortion. And you must include "radical democrat" in the attack ads. And that is all there is to it. No taxes need to be mentioned, it is assumed.
Given how unpopular it was to overturn roe v Wade, I think Republicans would be better served to remain silent on the issue, and drum up some other false outrage (like critical race theory, or transvestites) to whip the MAGAchud into a frenzy.

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Old 6th July 2022, 05:58 PM   #279
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How unpopular is Joe Biden? Unpopular enough in Ohio that the Democratic nominees for the US Senate, Tim Ryan, and Governor, Nan Whaley, discovered unavoidable conflicts in their schedule that will prevent them from appearing with the President on his upcoming visit to Cleveland. Joe's an anchor around their necks from which they are trying to escape. Biden's current approval rating in the Buckeye State is 26%.
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Old 2nd August 2022, 10:24 AM   #280
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Voted in AZ's Republican primary. Picked Taylor-Robson over Lake; no way I'm voting for any Trump-endorsed candidates this cycle. Unfortunately I will probably be crossing over to Katie Hobbs (D) in the general due to the abortion issue; Taylor-Robson wants to enforce the 1901 abortion ban over the 2021 15-week ban which I would greatly prefer. The latest polling shows Taylor-Robson slightly ahead of Lake, which is a reversal from most of the year. Voted for Lamon over Masters, but that was probably in vain. Voted for Beau Lane over 2020 election kook Mark Finchem for Secretary of State; that one I expect to be on the losing side as well.
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