IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
View Poll Results: Democrat lessons for losing '22 midterms?
Far left social agendas suck! 7 41.18%
Stick to populist economics. 3 17.65%
Abortion, abortion, abortion!!! 7 41.18%
Blue lives do actually matter. 0 0%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
Old 27th October 2022, 01:10 PM   #1
Hercules56
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,907
Democrat lessons for losing '22 midterms?

So the Democrats are going to lose the 2022 midterms. Either they will lose little or they will lose BIG, but they gonna lose.

They will lose the House or the House AND the Senate.

What should their lessons be? Please comment and vote.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 01:27 PM   #2
Venom
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 6,039
1. Abortion rights
2. Go on the offensive. Attack, attack, ATTACK rightwing media outlets, call out their stooges by name. This I think is the Number ONE reason voters are radicalized.
3. Get rid of Pelosi, Schumer, and most of the visible establishment Democrats. At least have younger, more energetic people in front of the cameras.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 01:32 PM   #3
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 19,383
That being the party in power sucks during midterms? I do think that the Democrats' embrace of some of the more radical progressive positions on things like crime (no cash bail requirements) and transgenderism (support for Lia Thomas competing as a female) have cost them. Of course the Republicans are facing their own headwinds on abortion and some particularly weak candidates.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 01:39 PM   #4
Hercules56
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,907
BLM riots, calls to defund the police, cashless bail followed by massive surge in crime, transgender bathrooms and athletes, have truly ****** the Dems.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 01:42 PM   #5
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 33,224
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
BLM riots, calls to defund the police, cashless bail followed by massive surge in crime, transgender bathrooms and athletes, have truly ****** the Dems.
Well, that is spoken like someone who took the GQP propaganda Hook, line, and sinker.
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.
Upchurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 01:45 PM   #6
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 33,224
I think the #1 lesson is to not support the most extreme far-right candidate in the Republican primary.
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.
Upchurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 01:48 PM   #7
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 18,990
Run on changing Election System instead of issues.
__________________
"The only true paradise is paradise lost"
Marcel Proust
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 01:50 PM   #8
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 13,362
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Well, that is spoken like someone who took the GQP propaganda Hook, line, and sinker.
This is the 4th or 5th of these style of threads being started.

The lessons will be the same as when the GOP lost the House and the Senate and POTUS.

As Lucilla said in Gladiator, "The mob is fickle, brother. He'll be forgotten in a month." The GOP will get hosed in the next round. Rinse, repeat.

Like Brainster initially said, this isn't new or different. This happens all of the time. The only thing the Dems, or the GOP, will learn is to wait until the next election cycle.

That being said, I think this is really just another thread for Hercules56 to bitch about Dem policy. No real interest. I thought we had a few threads for this already.
__________________
“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

Last edited by plague311; 27th October 2022 at 01:52 PM.
plague311 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 02:28 PM   #9
lobosrul5
Illuminator
 
lobosrul5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,654
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
So the Democrats are going to lose the 2022 midterms. Either they will lose little or they will lose BIG, but they gonna lose.

They will lose the House or the House AND the Senate.

What should their lessons be? Please comment and vote.
You don't know that. Even Nate Silver is saying that maybe the polls are basically meaningless. Even if his model is excellent, if its fed junk data it will spit out junk results. Whether they lose or not, both Venom and Brainster are correct.

Distance themselves from transgender issues, and anything considered 'woke'. Concentrate on improving the lives of working class and middle class people. Stop playing nice, because your opponent does not. For gods sake try and convince the 70+ crowd to step down and give younger candidates a chance.
lobosrul5 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 02:28 PM   #10
Hercules56
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,907
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
This is the 4th or 5th of these style of threads being started.

The lessons will be the same as when the GOP lost the House and the Senate and POTUS.

As Lucilla said in Gladiator, "The mob is fickle, brother. He'll be forgotten in a month." The GOP will get hosed in the next round. Rinse, repeat.

Like Brainster initially said, this isn't new or different. This happens all of the time. The only thing the Dems, or the GOP, will learn is to wait until the next election cycle.

That being said, I think this is really just another thread for Hercules56 to bitch about Dem policy. No real interest. I thought we had a few threads for this already.
I am furious that the Dems are going to lose and didn't accomplish all that we could have. I hope you and others will not ignore the things that mainstream America is worried about.

Last edited by Hercules56; 27th October 2022 at 02:30 PM.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 02:32 PM   #11
Hercules56
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,907
Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
You don't know that. Even Nate Silver is saying that maybe the polls are basically meaningless. Even if his model is excellent, if its fed junk data it will spit out junk results. Whether they lose or not, both Venom and Brainster are correct.

Distance themselves from transgender issues, and anything considered 'woke'. Concentrate on improving the lives of working class and middle class people. Stop playing nice, because your opponent does not. For gods sake try and convince the 70+ crowd to step down and give younger candidates a chance.
Apparently there is something wrong if I criticize the Democrats for focusing too much on woke issues like transgender bathrooms and defunding the police. It's supposedly means that I have bought into Republican propaganda.

On the contrary I think it takes a great deal of denial to make believe all of the rioting and the increase in crime do not bother the American people.

The American people right now care about bread and butter issues and focusing instead on ideology is terribly stupid. Pretty much all of my friends are liberals or progressives and nobody is a fan of what the Democrats have been focusing on over the last 2 years.

Last edited by Hercules56; 27th October 2022 at 02:33 PM.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 02:54 PM   #12
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 13,362
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Apparently there is something wrong if I criticize the Democrats for focusing too much on woke issues like transgender bathrooms and defunding the police. It's supposedly means that I have bought into Republican propaganda.

On the contrary I think it takes a great deal of denial to make believe all of the rioting and the increase in crime do not bother the American people.

The American people right now care about bread and butter issues and focusing instead on ideology is terribly stupid. Pretty much all of my friends are liberals or progressives and nobody is a fan of what the Democrats have been focusing on over the last 2 years.
I love that you and others are saying:

"Stop caring about trans people, stop caring about socially making this place better, and focus on my God damned wallet. Be EVEN ******* MORE Republican lite."

I don't have much else to add. If that's the party you guys want, then I hope you ******* get it. It's not what I want. I want the political party I associate with to care about how PoC, trans people, and everyone else is treated. Apparently money and winning doesn't mean as much to me, but what the **** ever you guys want, I hope it's exactly what you asked for.
__________________
“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 03:16 PM   #13
Hercules56
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,907
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I love that you and others are saying:

"Stop caring about trans people, stop caring about socially making this place better, and focus on my God damned wallet. Be EVEN ******* MORE Republican lite."

I don't have much else to add. If that's the party you guys want, then I hope you ******* get it. It's not what I want. I want the political party I associate with to care about how PoC, trans people, and everyone else is treated. Apparently money and winning doesn't mean as much to me, but what the **** ever you guys want, I hope it's exactly what you asked for.
Funny how you forgot about the issues of crime and inflation. I guess in your mind "true" Democrats don't worry about such things.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 03:19 PM   #14
lobosrul5
Illuminator
 
lobosrul5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,654
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I love that you and others are saying:

"Stop caring about trans people, stop caring about socially making this place better, and focus on my God damned wallet. Be EVEN ******* MORE Republican lite."

I don't have much else to add. If that's the party you guys want, then I hope you ******* get it. It's not what I want. I want the political party I associate with to care about how PoC, trans people, and everyone else is treated. Apparently money and winning doesn't mean as much to me, but what the **** ever you guys want, I hope it's exactly what you asked for.
I personally know working class, union guys, who used to vote democrat basically automatically. I've talked to some of them that say things like I'm not voting for someone whose gonna put boys in my daughters locker room. But go ahead, keep running on a platform thats unpopular with your base. Look what happened to the governor of Virginia? Why do you think that position went from blue to red? (of course it was a local school board issue, not the governor but thats what lost the race).

You are essentially saying you're happy with losing but with noble ideas intact.
lobosrul5 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 03:24 PM   #15
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 62,417
Here in Portland, the shift from blue to red seems to be due entirely to the city government's insistence on decriminalizing public camping and drug use.

What was supposed to be about providing a safe space to admit you have a problem, and do what you gotta do while the social safety net works to get you the help you need, without having to worry about getting arrested, has turned out to be about providing a safe space for you to indulge your problem without having to worry about getting arrested. People are tired of the trash and the filth and not being able to walk on the sidewalks. Of having to send their kids to school through homeless camps full of trash and filth and occasionally violent people.
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 04:42 PM   #16
Hercules56
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,907
Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
I personally know working class, union guys, who used to vote democrat basically automatically. I've talked to some of them that say things like I'm not voting for someone whose gonna put boys in my daughters locker room. But go ahead, keep running on a platform thats unpopular with your base. Look what happened to the governor of Virginia? Why do you think that position went from blue to red? (of course it was a local school board issue, not the governor but thats what lost the race).

You are essentially saying you're happy with losing but with noble ideas intact.
What good are noble utopian ideals if they do NOT connect with the people and lose elections?

You cant win national elections by totally ignoring flyover country.

Last edited by Hercules56; 27th October 2022 at 04:43 PM.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 04:47 PM   #17
Pacal
Graduate Poster
 
Pacal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,386
Basically it appears that Republicans have successfully taped into hot button issues that are not really that important. All this hysteria about Trans people in bathrooms etc., is a perfect example of this.

As for rising crime and inflation. Crime is of course a typical Republican hot button issue with the usual dollop of hysteria. Because a very successful Republican strategy has been to make people very afraid especially about things like Trans people, Drag Queen story hour and other nonsense. Meanwhile we can be assured that Republicans will do little to nothing to actually help "ordinary" people.

Of course the great irony in all this is that the Democrats arn't really that different, just another side of the Business party. The idea that they are Radical Progressives out to destroy whatever and turn us into whatever has been a very successful strategy by Republicans of demonization. And of course the continual elevation of the level of fear. (Of TRans peoploe, Gays, Atheists et al, which can be seen in its most extreme form in the wall to wall hysteria of so many Evangelicals.

Americans are afraid, Republicans are very good at stoking that fear, (See Tucker Carlson.), and creating scapegoats. I expect rgwe Democrats to lose control of Congress and the next session will have a megadose of Republicans whining and hysteria in Congress.
Pacal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 04:49 PM   #18
Hercules56
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,907
Originally Posted by Pacal View Post
Basically it appears that Republicans have successfully taped into hot button issues that are not really that important. All this hysteria about Trans people in bathrooms etc., is a perfect example of this.

As for rising crime and inflation. Crime is of course a typical Republican hot button issue with the usual dollop of hysteria. Because a very successful Republican strategy has been to make people very afraid especially about things like Trans people, Drag Queen story hour and other nonsense. Meanwhile we can be assured that Republicans will do little to nothing to actually help "ordinary" people.

Of course the great irony in all this is that the Democrats arn't really that different, just another side of the Business party. The idea that they are Radical Progressives out to destroy whatever and turn us into whatever has been a very successful strategy by Republicans of demonization. And of course the continual elevation of the level of fear. (Of TRans peoploe, Gays, Atheists et al, which can be seen in its most extreme form in the wall to wall hysteria of so many Evangelicals.

Americans are afraid, Republicans are very good at stoking that fear, (See Tucker Carlson.), and creating scapegoats. I expect rgwe Democrats to lose control of Congress and the next session will have a megadose of Republicans whining and hysteria in Congress.
Wow, again no mention of crime or inflation.

Cuz Americans dont really care about such things, right? Its all GOP propaganda.

Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 04:55 PM   #19
Pacal
Graduate Poster
 
Pacal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,386
Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
I personally know working class, union guys, who used to vote democrat basically automatically. I've talked to some of them that say things like I'm not voting for someone whose gonna put boys in my daughters locker room. But go ahead, keep running on a platform thats unpopular with your base. Look what happened to the governor of Virginia? Why do you think that position went from blue to red? (of course it was a local school board issue, not the governor but thats what lost the race).

You are essentially saying you're happy with losing but with noble ideas intact.
The willingness of people to vote against their best interests is amusing. If your base is so hung up on hot button issues that they basically screw themselves by voting for candidates that are NOT going to be of much help for them then perhaps you should indeed drop the hot button issue and work on education in the meantime along with other stuff.

A side note. I have also been amused by the fly over people who while railing against "government" etc., get all sorts of subsidies etc., from said "evil" government. The conservatism of so many Farmers and Ranchers is especially risible given how the government pampers so many of them with subsidiies and protectionism.
Pacal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 05:05 PM   #20
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Gundungurra
Posts: 12,916
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
So the Democrats are going to lose the 2022 midterms. Either they will lose little or they will lose BIG, but they gonna lose.

They will lose the House or the House AND the Senate.

What should their lessons be? Please comment and vote.
Oh? They are? Is that a foregone conclusion, now? The votes are already in? Or are they not even going to matter...
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 05:08 PM   #21
Hercules56
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,907
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Oh? They are? Is that a foregone conclusion, now? The votes are already in? Or are they not even going to matter...
If the Dems hold both houses of Congress I will be pleasantly surprised & relieved. Exctatic if they pick up a Senate seat.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 05:10 PM   #22
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Gundungurra
Posts: 12,916
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
If the Dems hold both houses of Congress I will be pleasantly surprised & relieved. Exctatic if they pick up a Senate seat.
Then perhaps it might be an idea to wait and see what DOES transpire, before raging across the universe.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 05:14 PM   #23
Hercules56
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,907
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Then perhaps it might be an idea to wait and see what DOES transpire, before raging across the universe.
What can I say? My tea leaves don't lie.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 05:17 PM   #24
Pacal
Graduate Poster
 
Pacal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,386
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Wow, again no mention of crime or inflation.

Cuz Americans dont really care about such things, right? Its all GOP propaganda.

I specifically mentioned crime and inflation. What I was getting at was that pressing the crime hot button has been for a very long time a typical Republican strategy. After all in the 1990's when crime rates took a deep dive many Republicans were having fits over crime and not just Republicans Democrats joined in.

It has been known for decades that Americans in general over estimate the extent and danger of crime. The motto if it bleeds it leads and the search for sensational news have played a powerful role in creating that impression.

Being tough on crime is a familar Republican mantra and it does get votes.

And of course Americans care about crime, after all with the massive media coverage, and continual stoking by vested interests, like Police Departments anxious to increase their budgets and level of Militrization and add to their budgets, in some cases rather bloated.

My point is simple to a large extent the hysteria over crime is whipped up by vested interests who benefit from such whipped up hysteria.

After all the Black Lives Matter protests were overwhelmingly peaceful but we heard a great deal about violence - because if it bleeds it leads and fearful people tend to vote for Republicans.

As for inflation. I'm old enough to remember the truly weird stagflation of the late 60s and 70s and frankly governments really couldn't do much about it. I rather doubt any US government can do much right now and I really doubt Republicans will or can do much. Of course there is one measure that will reduce the inflation rate - a massiv e increase in intererst rates combined with tightening the money supply. Of course that will produce a recession. Are Americans willing to accept that?

Pressing hot buttons has been a very successful strategy and for Republicans crime has been the button that keeps on giving. And now we have Trans people in bathrooms. (During the 90s some Republicans complained that crime was still out of control and not going down. They were so in love of their hot button.)

Last edited by Pacal; 27th October 2022 at 05:21 PM.
Pacal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 05:20 PM   #25
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Gundungurra
Posts: 12,916
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
What can I say? My tea leaves don't lie.
They float??
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 05:21 PM   #26
Hercules56
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,907
Originally Posted by Pacal View Post
I specifically mentioned crime and inflation. What I was getting at was that pressing the crime hot button has been for a very long time a typical Republican strategy. After all in the 1990's when crime rates took a deep dive many Republicans were having fits over crime and not just Republicans Democrats joined in.

It has been known for decades that Americans in general over estimate the extent and danger of crime. The motto if it bleeds it leads and the search for sensational news have played a powerful role in creating that impression.

Being tough on crime is a familar Republican mantra and it does get votes.

And of course Americans care about crime, after all with the massive media coverage, and continual stoking by vested interests, like Police Departments anxious to increase their budgets and level of Militrization and add to their budgets, in some cases rather bloated.

My point is simple to a large extent the hysteria over crime is whipped up by vested interests who benefit from such whipped up hysteria.

After all the Black Lives Matter protests were overwhelmingly peaceful but we heard a great deal about violence - because if it bleeds it leads and fearful people tend to vote for Republicans.

As for inflation. I'm old enough to remember the truly weird stagflation of the late 60s and 70s and frankly governments really couldn't do much about it. I rather doubt any US government can do much right now and I really doubt Republicans will or can do much. Of course there is one measure that will reduce the inflation rate - a massiv e increase in intererst rates combined with tightening the money supply. Of course that will produce a recession. Are Americans willing to accept that?

Pressing hot buttons has been a very successful strategy and for Republicans crime has been the button that keeps on giving. (During the 90s some Republicans complained that crime was still out of control and not going down. They were so in love of their hot button.)
I know this may shock you but the images of the 1% of BLM protests that turned violent totally outweigh the other 99%, in the minds of many Americans.

It was very sad for me to hear friends justify or excuse the arson & looting. Those memories stick in your head more than a peaceful march down Main St.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 05:24 PM   #27
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 19,383
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I think the #1 lesson is to not support the most extreme far-right candidate in the Republican primary.
This would indeed be a very good idea. The Democrats here decided to help out Trump supporter and election denier Kari Lake, and now she appears to be cruising to victory, is seen as a rising star in the party, and may just pull Blake Masters over the finish line into the Senate.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 05:27 PM   #28
Hercules56
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,907
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
This would indeed be a very good idea. The Democrats here decided to help out Trump supporter and election denier Kari Lake, and now she appears to be cruising to victory, is seen as a rising star in the party, and may just pull Blake Masters over the finish line into the Senate.
Are you kidding me???

I heard that some Dems had been helping far-right crazy MAGA folks expecting them to be an easy target to defeat, but now some of them are heading for victory???

Crazy. I guess you reap what you sow.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 05:31 PM   #29
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 19,383
oops dupe delete
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 05:38 PM   #30
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 19,383
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Are you kidding me???

I heard that some Dems had been helping far-right crazy MAGA folks expecting them to be an easy target to defeat, but now some of them are heading for victory???

Crazy. I guess you reap what you sow.
Well, you know how it is, they looked at it as improving their chances of winning, and didn't consider the downside. Lake was a particularly risky pick, as she's been a tv news anchor for 20+ years, is polished and oozes personality. She's going to be on the short list of potential VPs, and that means she has to be considered a long-term candidate for the top job.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 05:41 PM   #31
Hercules56
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,907
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Well, you know how it is, they looked at it as improving their chances of winning, and didn't consider the downside. Lake was a particularly risky pick, as she's been a tv news anchor for 20+ years, is polished and oozes personality. She's going to be on the short list of potential VPs, and that means she has to be considered a long-term candidate for the top job.
Progressive values can't be that important if we are willing to give extremist MAGA candidates $53 million to win their primaries.

https://unherd.com/thepost/democrats...-of-kari-lake/
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 05:50 PM   #32
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 56,777
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Run on changing Election System instead of issues.
You really think that is going work?
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 05:51 PM   #33
Pacal
Graduate Poster
 
Pacal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,386
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I know this may shock you but the images of the 1% of BLM protests that turned violent totally outweigh the other 99%, in the minds of many Americans.

It was very sad for me to hear friends justify or excuse the arson & looting. Those memories stick in your head more than a peaceful march down Main St.
Did you actually read my post? I specifically said that the media trope of if it bleeds it leads is in fact a dominant trope and that it quite specifically gives a misleading impressionm of actual reality. The actual reality is that the BLM protests were overwhelmingly peaceful. The actual reality is that media, like Fox News, distorted that reality, in the same way media gives the impression that crime is much more common than it actually is. That peoploe believe a distorted vision of reality doesn't make it any less distorted. Further do you doubt that some Republicans quite deliberately played up the violence for the purpose of getting votes?

One of the reasons why the 1% of BLM protests that turned violent totaly outweigh the other 99% in the minds of many Americans is because large numbers of Americans don't know this and think a very large percentage if not the majority of BLM protests were violent. If they knew this would it really totaly outweigh the 99% that were not violent?

It is obvious to me that one of the reasons people think this is because of distorted media coverage based on a long standing trope and the Republicans get a benefit from pushing the narrative.

As for looting and arson - well I never heard anyone I know who was in BLM justfying the looting and arson. And just how much effort was made by the media to show those members of BLM who tried to prevent looting and arson and keep the protests peaceful? That would of course go against the trope if it bleeds it leads.

Concentration on the 1% like concentration on crime serves several useful purposes 1) It sells more papers, magazines, and advertising on radio and TV. 2) It helps to make people more afraid which gets them to among other things buy more guns and vote for Republicans.

Americans are afraid so more will vote Republican. I expect the efforts to stoke fear will continue for quite a while. Certainly Trans people in bathrooms has been quite the vote getter. The stolen election fantasy has of course been another massive stoker of fear.
Pacal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2022, 06:01 PM   #34
Hercules56
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,907
Originally Posted by Pacal View Post
Did you actually read my post? I specifically said that the media trope of if it bleeds it leads is in fact a dominant trope and that it quite specifically gives a misleading impressionm of actual reality. The actual reality is that the BLM protests were overwhelmingly peaceful. The actual reality is that media, like Fox News, distorted that reality, in the same way media gives the impression that crime is much more common than it actually is. That peoploe believe a distorted vision of reality doesn't make it any less distorted. Further do you doubt that some Republicans quite deliberately played up the violence for the purpose of getting votes?

One of the reasons why the 1% of BLM protests that turned violent totaly outweigh the other 99% in the minds of many Americans is because large numbers of Americans don't know this and think a very large percentage if not the majority of BLM protests were violent. If they knew this would it really totaly outweigh the 99% that were not violent?

It is obvious to me that one of the reasons people think this is because of distorted media coverage based on a long standing trope and the Republicans get a benefit from pushing the narrative.

As for looting and arson - well I never heard anyone I know who was in BLM justfying the looting and arson. And just how much effort was made by the media to show those members of BLM who tried to prevent looting and arson and keep the protests peaceful? That would of course go against the trope if it bleeds it leads.

Concentration on the 1% like concentration on crime serves several useful purposes 1) It sells more papers, magazines, and advertising on radio and TV. 2) It helps to make people more afraid which gets them to among other things buy more guns and vote for Republicans.

Americans are afraid so more will vote Republican. I expect the efforts to stoke fear will continue for quite a while. Certainly Trans people in bathrooms has been quite the vote getter. The stolen election fantasy has of course been another massive stoker of fear.
I disagree on one point I don't think telling people that our Presidential election was stolen by an international conspiracy of Venezuelan & Chinese Communists is going to scare too many intelligent folks. Gots to already possess a certain level of paranoia & stupid to be influenced by such junk.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2022, 01:48 AM   #35
Gulliver Foyle
Muse
 
Gulliver Foyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Cork baaaiii
Posts: 666
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
So the Democrats are going to lose the 2022 midterms. Either they will lose little or they will lose BIG, but they gonna lose.

They will lose the House or the House AND the Senate.

What should their lessons be? Please comment and vote.
No sign of the actual reason, corporate Dems would rather see republicans in power than do anything to inconvenience their paymasters. They're the American party of Thatcher, after all
Gulliver Foyle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2022, 02:56 AM   #36
Gulliver Foyle
Muse
 
Gulliver Foyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Cork baaaiii
Posts: 666
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
BLM riots, calls to defund the police, cashless bail followed by massive surge in crime, transgender bathrooms and athletes, have truly ****** the Dems.
On the first I don't think the Democratic party has much control of the various republican brownshirt groups. On the second, removing the kind of funding that's making US police forces armies of occupation and diverting them to social, community and health services needed by communities is a good idea. On the rest, nice dog whistling, lad.
Gulliver Foyle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2022, 04:17 AM   #37
shuttlt
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,094
Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle View Post
No sign of the actual reason, corporate Dems would rather see republicans in power than do anything to inconvenience their paymasters. They're the American party of Thatcher, after all
They are most certainly not. She was something like a neo-con with touches of paleocon. She was socially conservative. She banned the promotion of homosexuality in schools. In a lot of ways she was waaay more socially conservative than the Republican platform.

Last edited by shuttlt; 28th October 2022 at 04:18 AM.
shuttlt is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2022, 05:57 AM   #38
Hercules56
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,907
Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle View Post
On the first I don't think the Democratic party has much control of the various republican brownshirt groups. On the second, removing the kind of funding that's making US police forces armies of occupation and diverting them to social, community and health services needed by communities is a good idea. On the rest, nice dog whistling, lad.
Police are "armies of occupation"????

Nice Antifa logic you got there. Really helpful with winning national elections.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2022, 06:07 AM   #39
shuttlt
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,094
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Police are "armies of occupation"????

Nice Antifa logic you got there. Really helpful with winning national elections.
There are other models. The chaz/chop model of community led law enforcement, for example.
shuttlt is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2022, 06:20 AM   #40
Hercules56
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,907
Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
There are other models. The chaz/chop model of community led law enforcement, for example.
I have no problem with Federally mandated police reforms dealing with accountability, oversight and tactics. But viewing police as an "occupying army" is just more Antifa rhetoric that most of America considers to be extremist nonsense.

I feel like its 2016 all over again, with Hillary refusing to acknowledge her many campaign and policy mistakes that led to her defeat.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:09 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.