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View Poll Results: Democrat lessons for losing '22 midterms?
Far left social agendas suck! 7 41.18%
Stick to populist economics. 3 17.65%
Abortion, abortion, abortion!!! 7 41.18%
Blue lives do actually matter. 0 0%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 8th November 2022, 02:19 PM   #241
Hercules56
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
The biggest problem is relying on white women. They remain the worst.
You're joking, right? Trying to be funny?
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Old 8th November 2022, 02:22 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Take abortion. Without taking to account anything about how Republicans are sexist sons of Nazi bitches who don't deserve the time of day, I agree that they are, what do you think Democrats are going to do about preserving and reinstating abortion rights? Not what will they say or attempt, what will they actually do?
How deep in a privilege bubble do you have to be to look at one side who WILL do everything that can to make abortion a thing of the past and the side who's only sin is "Didn't fight hard enough" and try to equate them?

At this point if you're seeing the value in "At least this side won't actively make it any worse" you're a sociopath.
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Old 8th November 2022, 02:24 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Knock down that strawman all you want. It's not going to add a single vote on its own. Today we're seeing the limit that voting against gets you.
JoeMorgue was literally bitching about the opposite of what you're saying here. He specifically pointed out the short-sighted, childish "earn my vote" attitude, and didn't say boo about "voting against". Yet here you are, complaining that Dems haven't done enough to earn votes.

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Will it be enough? I sure as hell hope so. I really do. But if it isn't, no matter how much you might hate and accuse voters for it then you do, you really truly do need to get off your ass and convince them that you'll make make positive changes. That's what the Democrats have utterly failed at and show no signs of understanding so long as there's someone so much worse for them to point at instead.

Take abortion. Without taking to account anything about how Republicans are sexist sons of Nazi bitches who don't deserve the time of day, I agree that they are, what do you think Democrats are going to do about preserving and reinstating abortion rights? Not what will they say or attempt, what will they actually do? How many extra Senate seats do you think it'll take for them to pass a law federally codifying abortion rights? 52? 56? Will they even bother given it will be immediately challenged and struck down by the stacked Supreme Court? Are they intending to do anything about that? Or will they make a token effort but shut down at the first sign of conflict like they have for every damn thing in the past and tell voters they really don't deserve to expect anything more?


Are you ******* serious?
6-3 SCOTUS
DoJ too chickencrap to lift a finger toward anyone with an R
Brown people and whores getting put in their place
Literal goddamn fascism eroding democracy

They've done nothing but earn votes from a position of very little power but even less honor. This is what those voters wanted. They want the leopards. This is how their vote was earned. Evil and horrible asks, yes, but they were delivered. They did what people wanted them to. That's how you can get into power even if you've got nothing but, again, literal goddamn fascism to go on, so long as the opposing party refuses to do the same out of sheer hubris and contempt for their potential supporters.
You do realize that the last 2 paragraphs show how empty the claims are in the 1st 2 paragraphs, right? 6-3 SCOTUS, for instance. If the "didn't earn my vote" crowd had been less short sighted and childish, we'd have a 6-3 sane person majority right now. If "literal goddamn fascism eroding democracy" isn't going to earn a vote against it, what will be enough?
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Old 8th November 2022, 02:25 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/pol...-for-democrats

1 million voters switched from Dem to GOP in 2021.(
No - you misread that:

Quote:
But over the last year, roughly two-thirds of the 1.7 million voters who changed their party affiliation shifted to the Republican Party. In all, more than 1 million people became Republicans compared to about 630,000 who became Democrats.
"Change in party affiliation" in this case seems to include those who registered with a party after having been unregistered/independent, along with those who switched from one party to the other.

So a million people registered as Republican but that doesn't mean they were all Democrats any more than the 630k who registered as Democrats used to be Republicans.

The article's example is a man who switched from Libertarian to Republican - either way that guy was not going to be voting Dem in the previous election. As the Republican party shifts to a more libertarian-professing* stance, I would expect a good number of libertarians to make that switch.

The change clearly favors Republicans, but not as dramatically as your post implies.


*No true libertarian and all that
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Old 8th November 2022, 02:38 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/pol...-for-democrats

1 million voters switched from Dem to GOP in 2021.

The Democrats need to figure out quickly what the hell they are doing wrong.

Disregarding these defections as simply ignorant people who have been suckered into believing Republican fear-mongering simply will not do. Not if they ever want to control Congress again.

Although the Democrats could instead just choose purity over power.
I still think it's because they're ignorant people suckered into believing rightwing fearmongering.

Don't dismiss the power of rightwing media.

Last edited by Venom; 8th November 2022 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 8th November 2022, 02:39 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
JoeMorgue was literally bitching about the opposite of what you're saying here. He specifically pointed out the short-sighted, childish "earn my vote" attitude, and didn't say boo about "voting against". Yet here you are, complaining that Dems haven't done enough to earn votes.
If Democrats don't feel the need to earn votes, and aren't voting against something worse, where do you expect votes to come from?

Quote:
You do realize that the last 2 paragraphs show how empty the claims are in the 1st 2 paragraphs, right? 6-3 SCOTUS, for instance. If the "didn't earn my vote" crowd had been less short sighted and childish, we'd have a 6-3 sane person majority right now. If "literal goddamn fascism eroding democracy" isn't going to earn a vote against it, what will be enough?
If Hillary would have installed a 6-3 far-left SCOTUS, you'd have a point. Garland is a stock centrist, I see no reason to presume any other nominees wouldn't have been as well. Democrats have (please dear Satan turn this into a "had" soon!) a fetish for pretending the judiciary must be staunchly independent and should be drawn from the center bushes in the median of the road, too conservative for anyone to get excited about but theoretically less objectionable for their good peers across the aisle. Republicans are rat finks who have made no bones about sticking extremists in as many seats as they can. They ran on getting to steal that open seat in 2016, and scored three. Democrats ran on hner hner, isn't Trump terrible, and scored bupkis.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
How deep in a privilege bubble do you have to be to look at one side who WILL do everything that can to make abortion a thing of the past and the side who's only sin is "Didn't fight hard enough" and try to equate them?

At this point if you're seeing the value in "At least this side won't actively make it any worse" you're a sociopath.
I assume you mean NOT seeing the value in... But if one side wants to kill something and the other side isn't going to save it, I can't really blame someone for not going out of their way to vote at all. Seems like you're getting screwed sooner or later anyway so you might as well enjoy your Tuesday.

[ETA] Really, the answer to "what will you do to address this issue?" should never be "how dare you demand we address this issue!"

Last edited by Beelzebuddy; 8th November 2022 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 8th November 2022, 03:16 PM   #247
Hercules56
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I still think it's because they're ignorant people suckered into believing rightwing fearmongering.

Don't dismiss the power of rightwing media.
I only watch Liberal media. They have a daily reminder of new and ugly crimes in our cities. Has nothing to do with right wing anything.
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Old 8th November 2022, 03:56 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I still think it's because they're ignorant people suckered into believing rightwing fearmongering.

Don't dismiss the power of rightwing media.
I think some of the posters here would be well served by watching Fox News for a single weekday primetime. Then realize that a large portion of the American population takes all the fearmongering and lies that they spew every day as gospel. They see the world through a very different lens.
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Old 8th November 2022, 03:58 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I only watch Liberal media. They have a daily reminder of new and ugly crimes in our cities. Has nothing to do with right wing anything.
What are you watching? Are you referring to local news media and assuming that they are "liberal" because they are part of NBC/ABC/CBS? In reality many affiliates are owned by conservative people or groups. Ie Stanley Hubbard.
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Old 8th November 2022, 04:03 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I don't think it's telling voters they're paranoid, it's telling voters that the GOP doesn't have a solution at all.

So, ok, crime is up (it's not, as we saw) but lets pretend it is because the GOP has convinced people that's the case. What are they going to do about it? There is actually crime in GOP run states, cities, etc. as well. Voting GOP isn't some magic ******* cure all for crime. The GOP runs the state legislatures for >50% of the states and crime is still all over.
Not only is their crime in GoP led states, 8 of the 10 worst are... GoP led states.

https://www.axios.com/2022/03/16/mur...te-biden-trump
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Old 8th November 2022, 04:13 PM   #251
Hercules56
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
What are you watching? Are you referring to local news media and assuming that they are "liberal" because they are part of NBC/ABC/CBS? In reality many affiliates are owned by conservative people or groups. Ie Stanley Hubbard.
Uh huh.
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Old 8th November 2022, 05:43 PM   #252
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The amount of resistance on display here, to even the concept of ever momentarily considering maybe possibly someday making a political decision or two based on the populace's actual voting behavior, instead of based on some preachy idealization of how the populace's voting behavior should be, is a strain to believe.
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Old 8th November 2022, 05:57 PM   #253
Hercules56
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
The amount of resistance on display here, to even the concept of ever momentarily considering maybe possibly someday making a political decision or two based on the populace's actual voting behavior, instead of based on some preachy idealization of how the populace's voting behavior should be, is a strain to believe.
If the GOP has a good night, most here will condemn the "idiots, morons, suckers and fools" for voting based on their fears about the economy and crime.
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Old 8th November 2022, 07:05 PM   #254
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Iím reading the Democrats will hold the Senate. Is that not the case?


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Old 8th November 2022, 07:16 PM   #255
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Number one lesson to learn from 2022, if Republicans are holding the keys to the polling place don’t expect them to show up until 2-4 hours after the polls open.

Number two lesson, if a whole bunch of Republicans volunteer to help at the polls, then expect a lot of them to not show up.

Party above country.
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Old 8th November 2022, 07:38 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Iím reading the Democrats will hold the Senate. Is that not the case?


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Where did you see that? Starting to kinda look that way..... But way to early to call it.
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Old 8th November 2022, 08:45 PM   #257
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I haven't been watching it closely this evening, but the one group covering it that I just started seems to be saying it's swinging more the Democrats' way than expected.

One interesting reason that's been brought up: people do have inflation on their minds but aren't blaming Democrats for it. That would be unusual. (In a good way.)
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Old 8th November 2022, 09:44 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I haven't been watching it closely this evening, but the one group covering it that I just started seems to be saying it's swinging more the Democrats' way than expected.

One interesting reason that's been brought up: people do have inflation on their minds but aren't blaming Democrats for it. That would be unusual. (In a good way.)
Not for our state, sadly. We went all red.

I mean seriously, we had a choice between an honest-to-god rocket scientist, and Trump's ex-mouthpiece for governor.

Guess which one we got?
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Old 8th November 2022, 10:07 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Not for our state, sadly. We went all red.

I mean seriously, we had a choice between an honest-to-god rocket scientist, and Trump's ex-mouthpiece for governor.

Guess which one we got?
I take it your in Arkansas... Crazy how things have changed since Clinton.
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Old 8th November 2022, 11:00 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Iím reading the Democrats will hold the Senate. Is that not the case?
NBC just called Fetterman.
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Old 8th November 2022, 11:01 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
NBC just called Fetterman.
Then they just need Nevada or Georgia... Or Wisconsin but that seems unlikely
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Old 8th November 2022, 11:06 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I only watch Liberal media. They have a daily reminder of new and ugly crimes in our cities. Has nothing to do with right wing anything.
Capital lettering, now? Is that to make it MORE extra sooper scary?
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Old 9th November 2022, 02:17 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Quote:
I only watch Liberal media. They have a daily reminder of new and ugly crimes in our cities. Has nothing to do with right wing anything.
What are you watching? Are you referring to local news media and assuming that they are "liberal" because they are part of NBC/ABC/CBS? In reality many affiliates are owned by conservative people or groups.
To be fair, I think part of the problem is less about the ideology of the owners and more about getting maximum ratings for the cheapest cost. And people like their crime stories. They can grab ratings by sending a single camera crew to broadcast the police talking about the latest crime spree. (Which is much less labor intensive than a deep investigative report into some political or social issue.)

John Oliver recently did a segment about it on Last Week Tonight.
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Old 9th November 2022, 02:23 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Then they just need Nevada or Georgia... Or Wisconsin but that seems unlikely
Well, Warnock seems to be leading Walker in Georgia, so that's a good sign. (Although it is very tight and there is a chance it could go to a run-off.)

Sadly it does look like they will lose both Nevada and Wisconsin.
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Old 9th November 2022, 02:42 AM   #265
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In my opinion, the biggest mistake that the Democrats made was....

Not pushing for Puerto Rico to be made a state.

Puerto Rico had a referendum in 2020 where a majority of Puerto Rico citizens voted for statehood. (It wasn't an overwhelming majority but it was solid.) Democrats should have pushed for them to be made a state after that. It should have been the first thing Biden mentioned in his inaugural address, it should have been one of the first pieces of legislation that the Democrats brought into congress. Get it done, and get it done quickly.

Why? Well, putting aside the problem of having millions of citizens denied a full say in how the country is run.... from a strategic point of view it would have helped the Democrats. A Puerto Rican state PROBABLY would have elected/appointed Democratic congressmen (at least for the next couple of election cycles). That would have certainly helped them keep control of congress when the races have been as close as they are. Plus, in polling, most Americans support statehood. (It may not have been as important as inflation or abortion in the midterms, but anything the democrats can highlight that voters approve of is a good thing.)

(The same argument could possibly be made for making Washington D.C. a state.)

But now there is a good chance the Democrats will lose either the house or senate (or both). Any legislation involving Puerto Rican statehood would be killed by the republicans. The window of opportunity has probably closed.
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Old 9th November 2022, 04:48 AM   #266
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Doesn't really matter what the Democrats do.. The table has been set for a huge pile of claims of stolen elections barring a huge GOP win. Even then there might be some claims from the GQP nutjob wing accompanied by some really creative math and craziness.

I see a lot of whining ahead.
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Old 9th November 2022, 05:56 AM   #267
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They’ll complain a lot, but none of them has the pull that Trump had. I worry more about the next presidential election given all the efforts to put election deniers in positions of power in several states.

I had hoped some of the GOP would start to get sick of sore loser syndrome when several pulled it during the primaries. But no…
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Old 9th November 2022, 06:06 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
If Democrats don't feel the need to earn votes, and aren't voting against something worse, where do you expect votes to come from?
Who said Democrats don't feel the need to earn votes? Not being "literal goddamn fascism eroding democracy" should be enough to earn the vote of any rational voter with a mental age over 3. Add to that the infrastructure bill, and college loan forgiveness, and they actually are doing things for the American people.

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
If Hillary would have installed a 6-3 far-left SCOTUS, you'd have a point. Garland is a stock centrist, I see no reason to presume any other nominees wouldn't have been as well. Democrats have (please dear Satan turn this into a "had" soon!) a fetish for pretending the judiciary must be staunchly independent and should be drawn from the center bushes in the median of the road, too conservative for anyone to get excited about but theoretically less objectionable for their good peers across the aisle. Republicans are rat finks who have made no bones about sticking extremists in as many seats as they can. They ran on getting to steal that open seat in 2016, and scored three. Democrats ran on hner hner, isn't Trump terrible, and scored bupkis.
Are really you going to do with '3 Garlands would have been just as bad as Drunky McRapeface, the Stepford Wife, and "Taze the Gays" Gorsuch'? I'll never wrap my head around the 'bite my nose off to spite my face' attitude that having someone only 85% in line with my values is worse than having someone 100% opposed to my values in charge.
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Old 9th November 2022, 06:46 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Capital lettering, now? Is that to make it MORE extra sooper scary?
"Super".
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Old 9th November 2022, 07:02 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
You're joking, right? Trying to be funny?
Nope. White women remain a terrible demographic for Democrats. The majority will support far-right candidates for the stupidest reasons. Democrats will push policies to address crime, inflation, health care, and education. All the types of policies white women say they are concerned with. But, they will still vote for the party with candidates that practically scream "Where's my dinner, bitch?!" on stage. All the right-winger has to do is give the usual cliches about crime and the economy, no matter how transparently false they are. White women don't want actual good governance. They want to be assured of their place just below white men and above everyone else.
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Old 9th November 2022, 07:18 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
In my opinion, the biggest mistake that the Democrats made was....

Not pushing for Puerto Rico to be made a state.

Puerto Rico had a referendum in 2020 where a majority of Puerto Rico citizens voted for statehood. (It wasn't an overwhelming majority but it was solid.) Democrats should have pushed for them to be made a state after that. It should have been the first thing Biden mentioned in his inaugural address, it should have been one of the first pieces of legislation that the Democrats brought into congress. Get it done, and get it done quickly.

Why? Well, putting aside the problem of having millions of citizens denied a full say in how the country is run.... from a strategic point of view it would have helped the Democrats. A Puerto Rican state PROBABLY would have elected/appointed Democratic congressmen (at least for the next couple of election cycles). That would have certainly helped them keep control of congress when the races have been as close as they are. Plus, in polling, most Americans support statehood. (It may not have been as important as inflation or abortion in the midterms, but anything the democrats can highlight that voters approve of is a good thing.)

(The same argument could possibly be made for making Washington D.C. a state.)

But now there is a good chance the Democrats will lose either the house or senate (or both). Any legislation involving Puerto Rican statehood would be killed by the republicans. The window of opportunity has probably closed.
I wish that would have happened, but it simply wasn't possible with the filibuster rule.
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Old 9th November 2022, 07:23 AM   #272
Donal
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Here in Portland we have a similar problem. Bail capped by law, and a "charity" organization crowd funding bail without regard for who they're putting back on the street. Literally, intentionally, by design not asking the important questions. Result: Known repeat violent offenders who should have been held without bail, instead getting a trivial bail due to legal limits on judicial discretion, leading to horrific murders committed by people who should never have been let go.

There are people in this country who are literally making human sacrifices on the altar of bail reform.

If Oregon turns red this year, part of it will be the thing you hope you won't see evidence of happening is actually happening.
I notice a lack of supporting evidence.

Also, are you OK with rich people getting out? Because it seems like your main criteria of whether or not someone deserves to be jailed without trial is if they have a lot of money.
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Old 9th November 2022, 07:47 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
If the GOP has a good night, most here will condemn the "idiots, morons, suckers and fools" for voting based on their fears about the economy and crime.
Can we condemn the "idiots, morons, suckers and fools" who fell for the the Republican propaganda on crime, even though the majority of voters saw through that tactic?
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Old 9th November 2022, 07:50 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Can we condemn the "idiots, morons, suckers and fools" who fell for the the Republican propaganda on crime, even though the majority of voters saw through that tactic?
Unfortunately it kinda worked for Oz. It let him catch up despite many laughable missteps. However it was not enough to carry him over and the last few ads about crime were ridiculous baiting.
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Old 9th November 2022, 07:50 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I think the #1 lesson is to not support the most extreme far-right candidate in the Republican primary.
Do I have to eat my words? I forget who they tried this strategy with in order to find out how it worked
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Old 9th November 2022, 07:55 AM   #276
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Is the Red Wave here yet?
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Old 9th November 2022, 08:02 AM   #277
wareyin
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Unfortunately it kinda worked for Oz. It let him catch up despite many laughable missteps. However it was not enough to carry him over and the last few ads about crime were ridiculous baiting.
Were any of the Republican ads on crime not ridiculous baiting?
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Old 9th November 2022, 08:38 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Do I have to eat my words? I forget who they tried this strategy with in order to find out how it worked
Anyone have some ketchup?
Democratic strategy of backing far-right candidates appears to pay off
Quote:
Democrats appeared largely vindicated in their controversial primary strategy of backing far-right candidates they believed would be easier to defeat in the general election. Many of the candidates Democrats boosted denied or downplayed the results of the 2020 election.

Of the six prominent races where the far-right candidate financially supported by Democrats advanced to the general election, four have been called for the Democrat. In the two others, Democratic candidates are leading their GOP challengers, including in a Michigan House race that Democrats hope they will flip.
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Old 9th November 2022, 09:00 AM   #279
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I am so very glad that so many of the whacky Republican Trump Ass Kissing candidates lost their elections.
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Old 9th November 2022, 09:06 AM   #280
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It’s looking like Lauren “I’m ok with my husband showing his willy to minors” Boebert is losing, 51-49 with 93% reporting. Now she can go back to poisoning customers at her dive restaurant.
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