IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
View Poll Results: Democrat lessons for losing '22 midterms?
Far left social agendas suck! 7 41.18%
Stick to populist economics. 3 17.65%
Abortion, abortion, abortion!!! 7 41.18%
Blue lives do actually matter. 0 0%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
Old 9th November 2022, 01:26 PM   #321
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 41,991
Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Hey, has anyone seen the Red Wave? I could have sworn it was around here just yesterday…
"The red wave is more like some light midcycle spotting" - Seen on the internet.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2022, 01:28 PM   #322
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 41,991
Even though we didn't "lose" there are some lessons to take away, some of which have already been brought up.

Republicans won over White women and Democrats lost support among Latino voters

CNN: https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-ne...d26d238b033b98
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2022, 01:30 PM   #323
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 19,328
Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
Pretty much all the Republican candidates were a threat to democracy. Some are just better at hiding it than others but at the end of the day the legislation and policies they support would have been the same.
True. All this talk of "don't support extremists republicans", but at this point, I think we can consider ALL republicans as extremists.

Remember, this is the party that saw Trump try to blackmail a foreign government to interfere in the U.S. election and said "nah, that's totally fine". Even the supposed moderates in the party voted against impeachment. So whether its a bunch of hardcore MAGAchud, or a bunch of "RINOs" (as Trump might label them), you'll get the same result... obstruction, false accusations, and a downward spiral into an authoritarian government.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2022, 01:32 PM   #324
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 41,991
And eventually I'd like us to get back to the point that "Not being an extremist" isn't the only bar the Right has to clear.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2022, 01:35 PM   #325
Donal
Philosopher
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,123
You'd think the Democrats would have learned to stop treating "Latinos" as one big monolith. Obviously, there are nuanced differences, not just in nationality, but in terms of class as well.

What really gets me is how Cuban and Venezuelan Latinos won't vote for Democrats because of "socialism", while at the same time supporting left-wing ballot initiatives. They won't vote for the politicians promising the things they want while voting for the politicians who do things that they claim they fear.
__________________
SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2022, 01:41 PM   #326
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 41,991
You're making it too complicated.

If what is second only to Trump losing Arizona because for some reason he just couldn't stop insulting the dead war hero that state loved the Democrats can't seem to grasp that you are going to lose voters if you talk about how the countries they escaped from "weren't all that bad and hey maybe had a few good points" like they just have to for some baffling reason with Cuba.

Again every single time a Democrat/Progressive can't help put kiss Cuba's ass just a little bit, you lose another 1-2% of the very vital if you want to win Florida "Name that ends with 'ez'" demographic.

Regardless of whatever one true Scotsman you want to put on the table these people have seen what you could honestly call "Leftist" policies fail and fail hard. You can't make that not true.

Also Latinos, in case nobody noticed, are sorta big on the whole religion thing so if you focus on Abortion you're gonna lose some of them.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

Last edited by JoeMorgue; 9th November 2022 at 01:46 PM.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2022, 01:51 PM   #327
trustbutverify
Philosopher
 
trustbutverify's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,895
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Patticluar given how much Inflation was hurting them.
A lot of ballot splliting was going on.
And I find this idea that suppoting extremist to help you win to be an incredibly stupid and dangerous tactic.
It's dangerous alright, but it appears to have been effective in this election cycle.
__________________
"To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength"
-Leni Riefenstahl
Wollen owns the stage
trustbutverify is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2022, 01:56 PM   #328
Donal
Philosopher
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,123
And yet complementing Russia, China, and North Korea for cracking down on the press and such isn't a political death sentence.

Nobody is kissing Cuba's ass, but we should be ashamed about some of the things they do better than us. Or consider that the families of the 2 most prominent Cuban Americans in the GQP actually fled the Bautista regime. Not Castro.

Perhaps do something like take DeSantis speeches and actions and juxtaposition them with the Chavez and Castro regimes. Try changing the conversation to authoritarianism.
__________________
SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2022, 02:29 PM   #329
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 41,991
Originally Posted by Donal View Post
And yet complementing Russia, China, and North Korea for cracking down on the press and such isn't a political death sentence.

Nobody is kissing Cuba's ass, but we should be ashamed about some of the things they do better than us. Or consider that the families of the 2 most prominent Cuban Americans in the GQP actually fled the Bautista regime. Not Castro.

Perhaps do something like take DeSantis speeches and actions and juxtaposition them with the Chavez and Castro regimes. Try changing the conversation to authoritarianism.
And that's why the Democrats are going to lose Florida for a while.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2022, 02:36 PM   #330
Donal
Philosopher
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,123
Because they think the path to victory is diet Republicans
__________________
SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2022, 02:42 PM   #331
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 41,991
I don't know what the narrative or metric on this is supposed to be but we are know 3 election cycles (2018, 2020, 2022) from Trump's one big "win." The GOP lost big in 2018 (even if I think the "blue wave" was a bit overrated), lost the Presidency in 2020, and stalled out in 2022 it's looking and in all of those races Trump was the big figure hovering over them.

Trump being the lynchpin of the Republican Party has to be losing strength as a concept, I'm both thinking and sincerely hoping.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2022, 02:43 PM   #332
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 41,991
Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Because they think the path to victory is diet Republicans
Yes I know I heard the first 38,957 times every but 7 people on Twitter are just evil centrists.

Let's see if your intellectually honest enough to answer a question directly.

Why aren't the Progressives their own separate party?
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2022, 02:55 PM   #333
Mike!
Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it!
 
Mike!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!
Posts: 47,867
Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Hey, has anyone seen the Red Wave? I could have sworn it was around here just yesterday…
It might be better characterized as a red puddle.
__________________
"Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes...
Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."

Last edited by Mike!; 9th November 2022 at 03:40 PM.
Mike! is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2022, 03:00 PM   #334
Beelzebuddy
Philosopher
 
Beelzebuddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,231
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Why aren't the Progressives their own separate party?
If the US had any kind of sane ranked choice system they already would be. But we don't, there's only room for two parties. Splitting the Democrat vote would be counterproductive to both parties' goals, even if by doing so you'd pick up enough disaffected voters to otherwise win. Unfortunately that might be what it takes to get buy-in from the more moderate Democrats; a threat to take their constituents to a new primary, eat the loss and let the fascists win, but luckily for us they're not that petty.

We have this discussion pretty much every time you bring it up, but it's consistently the Progressives that are the adults in the room. The main thing they aren't willing to do is quietly accept a lack of backslide as progress. They want demonstrable accomplishments, genuine change for the better, and are willing to rock a few boats or go along to get along, whatever it takes in order to reach them. It's the moderates who stamp their feet like Manchindren, who throw around purity tests, who feel entitled to votes just for temporarily keeping their seat warm and out of R hands.

[ETA] But I think Donal was referring to how Crist is literally a former Republican. The Democrats ran a Republican against a Republican and to no great surprise, the Republican won.

Last edited by Beelzebuddy; 9th November 2022 at 03:09 PM.
Beelzebuddy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2022, 03:01 PM   #335
Donal
Philosopher
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,123
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yes I know I heard the first 38,957 times every but 7 people on Twitter are just evil centrists.

Let's see if your intellectually honest enough to answer a question directly.

Why aren't the Progressives their own separate party?
Because Democrats at elast ostensibly align with progressives. Fortunately for Democratic "leadership" they finally started doing that in earnest. Maybe they can show at least half the love to progressives that they do to Republicans like Charlie Crist and Michael Bloomberg.
__________________
SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2022, 03:48 PM   #336
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 56,795
Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Because Democrats at elast ostensibly align with progressives. Fortunately for Democratic "leadership" they finally started doing that in earnest. Maybe they can show at least half the love to progressives that they do to Republicans like Charlie Crist and Michael Bloomberg.
Yeah, let's hate the centirst and moderates.That's the route to victory.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2022, 03:49 PM   #337
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 56,795
Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
It's dangerous alright, but it appears to have been effective in this election cycle.
Yeah but a couple of the races were either close.
Of course I am not so much anti Republican as Anti Trump, snf I will cheer for Never Trumpers in the GOP.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2022, 07:00 PM   #338
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 17,397
With close elections and a very big tent, there are always going to be tensions one could point to as 'the reason' the sane side isn't doing better.

And would you look at that? It just so happens to be the thing I personally disagree with the rest of the tent on! If I don't care much about non-straight people, the dems should drop all/part of their support for them. If I don't feel personally threatened by rampant police misconduct or our unjust justice system, then they need to stop talking about that. If I'm latino, they need to stop bending over for the blacks, if I'm black they need to stop bending over for whites, if I'm white they need to stop bending over for the 'woke'. If I'm a progressive, the corportists Dems are selling out and not fighting enough for the people. If I'm a centrist Dem, the progressives are scaring away moderates and won't compromise.

And there are arguments, even valid ones, for all of it. It's easy to do when the costs and benefits can be so extraordinarily unquantifiable. Does this change lose more voters than it gains? Who knows! People think the GOP is more trustworthy on the economy even though their ideas of cutting taxes when there is inflation is dumb and making raped ten year olds die in childbirth obviously doesn't create jobs.

That isn't to say these questions are all unanswerable or that absolutely no one thinks the Dems should tone down even issues they personally care a lot about to gain political advantage. Gun control is very important to me personally, but I do think the Dems could gain in a lot of places by pushing different measures/messaging on that right now. It sucks but it is what it is. But the answers aren't going to be clear or easy, and we've kind of grown used to manifestly bankrupt answers from the insane side being clear calls to oppose. When it comes do to more exact calls on honestly murky things to advance or retreat from, we have to switch back to different analytical footing.

My personal call? Stop trying to look reasonable and just start being earnest like Fetterman. Don't promise to fix everything because you can't, but do fight like hell to do it. Don't pretend your opponents have a good point, but do allow for their marks to honestly believe their concerns are valid, even if in reality, no, teachers are not trans-grooming your kids for hyper-rape or whatever the right-wing media ecosystem has come up with. Most people are busy and scared, so of course they don't know that a third of the country has gone intentionally deplorable. Entertaining that thought would be even more scary.
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

Last edited by tyr_13; 9th November 2022 at 07:02 PM.
tyr_13 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2022, 07:33 PM   #339
Hercules56
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,918
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yes I know I heard the first 38,957 times every but 7 people on Twitter are just evil centrists.

Let's see if your intellectually honest enough to answer a question directly.

Why aren't the Progressives their own separate party?
If they tried that, the "Progressive Party" would get barely 10% of the national vote. Greens and Democratic Socialists have no future in the USA, at least for another 30 years or so.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2022, 10:46 PM   #340
Delvo
Дэлво Δελϝο דֶלְבֹֿ देल्वो
 
Delvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: North Tonawanda, NY
Posts: 10,685
It's interesting to see & hear people on both sides acting like this is a Democrat victory. It's a closer Democrat loss than expected. In football, this is team X being favored by 15 points over team Y, then playing the game with X winning by 2, and having both X & Y and their fans act like that means team Y won. A red trickle isn't a red wave, but it also isn't a blue anything.

At least it's a small enough loss, and apparently feels enough like a win to most Democrats, that this time we're spared the sound of countless corporate Democrats mass-producing their talking points about how it's all the progressives' fault that the corporatists lost so much.

The best news, though, is that one group of news stories that we seemed to be getting close to doesn't seem to have happened: the zombie hordes attacking vote centers all over. Apparently most/all of the previous behavior making it look like they wanted more of that was either just trying to scare people, or at least intention to follow through but not quite enough motivation to actually follow through when the time came. I haven't even heard them peacefully claiming to have really won and had it stolen from them and insisting on suits/recounts! That there'd be lots & lots of that seemed like a more solid prediction than the red wave itself.

Last edited by Delvo; 9th November 2022 at 10:50 PM.
Delvo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2022, 11:57 PM   #341
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
 
johnny karate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 15,795
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
It's interesting to see & hear people on both sides acting like this is a Democrat victory. It's a closer Democrat loss than expected. In football, this is team X being favored by 15 points over team Y, then playing the game with X winning by 2, and having both X & Y and their fans act like that means team Y won. A red trickle isn't a red wave, but it also isn't a blue anything.
We were promised a Red Wave that never materialized and the Democrats overperformed at a historic level. MAGA candidates were rejected across the board and abortion rights were protected in several states.

This election shouldn’t have even been close. It should have been a total massacre. And yet here we are, with the possibility that Democrats could keep control of both chambers of Congress.

If you can’t see the victory in that, then I don’t know what to tell you.
johnny karate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2022, 12:06 AM   #342
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 19,022
Regardless of the final outcome, Republicans and their pundits vastly over promised how much "Americans TM" would reject Biden and his agenda.
I expect the cries of rigged elections to intensify and lead to more violence.
__________________
"The only true paradise is paradise lost"
Marcel Proust
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2022, 05:57 AM   #343
Donal
Philosopher
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,123
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yeah, let's hate the centirst and moderates.That's the route to victory.
We agree that centrists are really just Republicans.
__________________
SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2022, 06:07 AM   #344
Donal
Philosopher
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,123
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
If they tried that, the "Progressive Party" would get barely 10% of the national vote. Greens and Democratic Socialists have no future in the USA, at least for another 30 years or so.
Is there a faction within either party that doesn't apply to? Are you unaware of how our 2 party system works?
__________________
SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2022, 06:15 AM   #345
Donal
Philosopher
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,123
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
It's interesting to see & hear people on both sides acting like this is a Democrat victory. It's a closer Democrat loss than expected. In football, this is team X being favored by 15 points over team Y, then playing the game with X winning by 2, and having both X & Y and their fans act like that means team Y won. A red trickle isn't a red wave, but it also isn't a blue anything.
As of right now, we don't know if the Democrats lost control of either chamber. They probably will end up losing the House and normally I scoff at Democrats' celebration of "moral victories" but there are positives here.

Quote:
At least it's a small enough loss, and apparently feels enough like a win to most Democrats, that this time we're spared the sound of countless corporate Democrats mass-producing their talking points about how it's all the progressives' fault that the corporatists lost so much.
The opposite in fact. I'm hearing a lot of anger directed at NYC Maroy Eric Adams for his constant harping about crime. A lot of that was used to fuel the hysteria over the nonexistent crime wave, which is likely what flipped several reliably blue districts in the Mid-Hudson Valley, Long Island, and New Jersey. And made the governor race closer than it should have been.

Quote:
The best news, though, is that one group of news stories that we seemed to be getting close to doesn't seem to have happened: the zombie hordes attacking vote centers all over. Apparently most/all of the previous behavior making it look like they wanted more of that was either just trying to scare people, or at least intention to follow through but not quite enough motivation to actually follow through when the time came. I haven't even heard them peacefully claiming to have really won and had it stolen from them and insisting on suits/recounts! That there'd be lots & lots of that seemed like a more solid prediction than the red wave itself.
Thankfully, there was no violence and most of the losers have conceded.
__________________
SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense

Last edited by Donal; 10th November 2022 at 06:16 AM.
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2022, 12:22 PM   #346
Garrison
Philosopher
 
Garrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 5,880
No, it wasn't a Democratic victory but compared to previous elections it was an excellent performance, especially given the state of the economy. The fact is the Republicans backed the wrong horse politically.
__________________
So I've started a blog about my writing. Check it out at: http://fourth-planet-problem.blogspot.com/
And my first book is on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077W322FX
Garrison is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2022, 06:12 PM   #347
Hercules56
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,918
Incase anyone was wondering, I am RELIEVED there was no Red Wave.

The red trickle has made Trump look like a major liability, and I'm loving it.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2022, 06:37 PM   #348
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Gundungurra
Posts: 12,980
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Incase anyone was wondering, I am RELIEVED there was no Red Wave.

The red trickle has made Trump look like revealed him to be what he was always: a major liability, and I'm loving it.
This isn't news.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2022, 12:08 AM   #349
Susheel
Master Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 2,977
What really astounds me is that there are those who think that anyone in the Democratic party might have a "far left socialist" agenda. What the hell do you guys there think is a far left socialist agenda? Funding schools to improve the quality of education? Public Nutrition schemes to ensure that kids don't starve for no fault of their own? Social security for the aged so that they don't have to make a choice between losing their homes and health? Ensuring better access to health care to ensure that a trip to the hospital does not break the bank and leave them bankrupt? Making sure that all employment provides a realistic living wage and not force people to work themselves to death just to ensure that they can bare minimum to the table?...I could go on. Or is all this just "woke virtue signalling"?
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2022, 12:08 AM   #350
Susheel
Master Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 2,977
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Incase anyone was wondering, I am RELIEVED there was no Red Wave.
Yeah...pull the other one...it's got bells on.
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2022, 12:12 AM   #351
Gulliver Foyle
Muse
 
Gulliver Foyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Cork baaaiii
Posts: 705
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
You're making it too complicated.

If what is second only to Trump losing Arizona because for some reason he just couldn't stop insulting the dead war hero that state loved the Democrats can't seem to grasp that you are going to lose voters if you talk about how the countries they escaped from "weren't all that bad and hey maybe had a few good points" like they just have to for some baffling reason with Cuba.

Again every single time a Democrat/Progressive can't help put kiss Cuba's ass just a little bit, you lose another 1-2% of the very vital if you want to win Florida "Name that ends with 'ez'" demographic.

Regardless of whatever one true Scotsman you want to put on the table these people have seen what you could honestly call "Leftist" policies fail and fail hard. You can't make that not true.

Also Latinos, in case nobody noticed, are sorta big on the whole religion thing so if you focus on Abortion you're gonna lose some of them.
If you think what the Democrats do with Cuba, essentially very tentative and very insincere attempts at starting diplomatic normalisation, is arse kissing, then you really don't know about brown nosing.
Gulliver Foyle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2022, 12:16 AM   #352
Gulliver Foyle
Muse
 
Gulliver Foyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Cork baaaiii
Posts: 705
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
And that's why the Democrats are going to lose Florida for a while.
Democrats have "lost" Florida because the party of treason down there have managed the elections like the Nazis did in 1938 or like Putain is doing in Russia. I predict that de Santis will find it a lot harder when he's not allowed dictate who's on the ballot and who's allowed to vote.
Gulliver Foyle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2022, 12:21 AM   #353
Gulliver Foyle
Muse
 
Gulliver Foyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Cork baaaiii
Posts: 705
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yeah, let's hate the centirst and moderates.That's the route to victory.
If you think the Thatcherism of the Dekocrat establishment is moderate, then you deserve Trump.
Gulliver Foyle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2022, 02:17 AM   #354
Susheel
Master Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 2,977
I guess the Dems have more or less lost the House and the contrpol of the Senate hangs by a thread. The fact that there was no red wave means little. There is sufficient opportunity now for the Repugs to scuttle any policy or bill that might help the p[eople of America that the Derms might try to introduce. And I don't think thay can confidently depend on the "sensible Repubs" to bail them out. Ultimaterly, I think you guys might be looking at a lame duck administration until the next election. I sincerely hope it's not true, but my gut feeling disagrees.
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2022, 03:45 AM   #355
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 19,022
It might very well take another week before we know which party controls the House and even longer for the Senate - there is plenty of time for Voters in tight races to "cure" rejected ballots and for the last votes by mail to arrive.
I give Dems a 1 in 4 that they will keep both Chambers.
__________________
"The only true paradise is paradise lost"
Marcel Proust
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2022, 04:09 AM   #356
Susheel
Master Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 2,977
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
It might very well take another week before we know which party controls the House and even longer for the Senate - there is plenty of time for Voters in tight races to "cure" rejected ballots and for the last votes by mail to arrive.
I give Dems a 1 in 4 that they will keep both Chambers.
I really hope you are right.
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2022, 08:16 AM   #357
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
 
shemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Out back preparing the bunker for the next Civil War
Posts: 51,642
It is possible that the Democrats could hold the house, but it won't be easy. It seems to come down to flipping 5 seats which presently have Republicans leading.

Democrats still have a path to keep the House — but it’s tough

Quote:
Control of the House of Representatives remains unclear as of Thursday afternoon, as Republicans appear to have an edge but a path to a Democratic majority remains.

To win a majority, a party needs 218 seats. The totals for several close contests and races with many uncounted mail ballots remain in flux. But currently, Republican candidates lead in 222 districts and Democrats lead in 213.

So to hold their majority, Democrats need to gain the lead in five House races where Republicans are currently ahead — as well as holding on to their own leads, some of which are quite narrow.
Of the 35 so far undecided seats, 24 races are led by Democrats and 11 by Republicans. So holding the house depends on holding the leading in those 24 races, and flipping at least 5 of the 11 Republican leads. This sounds unlikely, but most of the uncounted ballots are early voting ballots, which tend to skew Democrat.

Here's the prospects according to Vox in those 11 races:

Quote:
There are about a dozen uncalled House contests where Republicans currently lead, so for a majority, Democrats would need to win five of those. And their hopes overwhelmingly hinge on whether slow tallies of mail-in ballots could shift outcomes in their favor.

Their best shot may be in Maryland’s Sixth District, where Rep. David Trone (D) currently trails. This race seems likely to flip in Trone’s favor since many mail-in ballots in deep blue Montgomery County remain to be counted.

Another possibility is Colorado’s Third District, the site of a potential shocking upset against Boebert. She is only leading her Democratic challenger Adam Frisch by a few hundred votes, with more to tally — as well as potential “cures” for mail ballots that were initially rejected.

In Oregon’s Fifth District, progressive Jamie McLeod-Skinner (D), who defeated a moderate incumbent in the Democratic primary, is currently trailing Lori Chavez-DeRemer (R) by 2.6 percentage points, with about one-quarter of the vote still uncounted.

In New York’s 22nd District, an open seat contest to replace the retiring moderate Rep. John Katko (R), Republican Brandon Williams leads by 1.6 percentage points.

Mail could also be a factor in Arizona’s Second District (which some outlets, but not others, have called for the Republican) and Arizona’s Sixth District (where the Republican leads by 3 percentage points).

In California, another heavily vote-by-mail state, there are several uncalled races where Republicans currently lead, and only about half the vote has been counted.

The California 13th District’s open seat contest looks promising for Democrats to flip since Republican John Duarte is leading by only a 0.29 percent margin over Democrat Adam Gray, and just 50 percent of the vote is counted.

Rep. David Valadao (R) represents California’s 22nd District, which Joe Biden won handily, and he has been through this before. In 2018, he led his Democratic challenger by 8 points on election night, but as the mail count slowly came in, that lead vanished, and he fell behind on November 26 and wouldn’t regain his lead. (He won the seat back in 2020.) Now, he is leading by 8 points again. Will history repeat itself?

California’s Third District and California’s 41st District both narrowly went for Trump in 2020, and Republican candidates Kevin Kiley (CA-03) and Rep. Ken Calvert (CA-41) have single-digit leads, with more than half of the vote uncounted.

Finally, California’s 27th District, 40th District, and 45th District feature Republican incumbents — Mike Garcia (CA-27), Young Kim (CA-40), and Michelle Steel (CA-45) — who represent districts Biden won but who currently lead by double digits. Their final margins are expected to get closer, though it’s not clear whether the untallied votes will be sufficient to change the outcome.

So those are Democrats’ hopes — to be saved by mail ballots and California’s slow counting process again. Still, it’s worth noting that though the conventional wisdom is that late-counted mail ballots benefit Democrats, that is not necessarily true in every state or district. (Washington and California have nonpartisan primaries, and in some of these, Republicans gained ground as mail ballots were counted this year.)
My fantasy: The House is split 217-217 with a recount pending in Lauren Boebert's district, and she loses the recount by a handful of votes, so she ends up losing the House for the Republicans.
__________________
Counting the days to Civil War II.
shemp is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2022, 08:33 AM   #358
lobosrul5
Illuminator
 
lobosrul5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,706
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
It might very well take another week before we know which party controls the House and even longer for the Senate - there is plenty of time for Voters in tight races to "cure" rejected ballots and for the last votes by mail to arrive.
I give Dems a 1 in 4 that they will keep both Chambers.
On the Senate side it looks like Mark Kelly is a done deal. In Nevada, Cortez Masto makes big gains every time they count some more mail in ballots, which is no surprise.

Odds of the dems holding at least 50 in the Senate look to me to be about 90%.

The House... I'd say more like 90% the other way.

This could be good for the Dems in the long run. The GoP led house will get to hold their silly Hunter Biden show trials, which anyone with half a brain will be able to see through.
lobosrul5 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2022, 08:45 AM   #359
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 41,991
I'm generally rather adverse to "Let's give the GOP more rope so they can hang themselves / Now that the GOP is in charge everyone will see them for the fools they are" plans, but this time it almost feels like it might work.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2022, 09:00 AM   #360
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
 
johnny karate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 15,795
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm generally rather adverse to "Let's give the GOP more rope so they can hang themselves / Now that the GOP is in charge everyone will see them for the fools they are" plans, but this time it almost feels like it might work.
100% agree. Everything that the lunatics who now run the GOP asylum have been claiming they’ll do if they win has been pretty much repudiated by the American public. If they actually govern that way, 2024 will be even worse for them.

If anything, I think it would be better for Republicans if they didn’t end up with control of either chamber. Then they can go back to their comfort zone of being backseat drivers who contribute nothing useful.
johnny karate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:16 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.