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Old 30th October 2022, 01:28 PM   #161
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
You seem to be of the opinion that no reasonable precautions could have prevented Pelosi's near-murder. I just don't understand such helpless fatalism, and the facts are on my side.
Nope. That's not what he said at all. A crazy person like DePape and other mentally ill and/or extremists on a mission would likely not be deterred by anything. A 'normal' burglar might be, but their motives are totally different.

Quote:
From the above report, police were at Pelosi's door two minutes after he made the 911 call. Slowing the guy's entrance by two minutes would have been enough to change the outcome. A functional alarm system would have dialed 911 automatically when the first window was smashed, and it would have alerted Pelosi to wake up, lock his bedroom door, arm himself with whatever he chose and call 911 again. Ordinary window film -- routinely used by Florida homeowners to reduce hurricane damage -- would have slowed DePape's access, and the loud alarm might have been enough to scare him away. Bright motion-sensing lights switching on might even have discouraged him as soon as he entered the yard.
As I've said before, we don't KNOW the house doesn't have a security/alarm system that wasn't activated. But I haven't seen anyone here suggest that a security/alarm system would be unwarranted in any home, much less the Pelosi's.

Quote:
Once again, the attacker was a crazy guy with a hardware store hammer, not a KGB hit team with breaching tools and silenced MP5s. He could have been stopped pretty easily. And Pelosi wouldn't be trying to recover from a fractured skull.
Are you suggesting it would take a KGB hit team with breaching tools and silenced MP5s to successfully enter a home with a security/alarm system? I don't think these families whose homes all had security systems would agree with you:

Burglar wanders through California home while family sleeps

Security Camera Catches Trio Of Burglars In The Act As Homeowners Slept

Alarm systems can be disabled by a burglar:

Quote:
Consumer Reports’ Digital Lab recently tested 10 DIY home security systems for vulnerabilities. Those tests found that five systems are relatively easy to jam: the Abode Iota All-In-One Kit, Cove Home Security System, Eufy 5-Piece Home Alarm Kit, Ring Alarm Security Kit (2nd gen.), and the same SimpliSafe The Essentials SS3-01 system from that YouTube video.
Quote:
Next, Mark set out to disable the home’s security system. Since the family was using a traditional alarm system that relies on a phone line, Mark explained that he would disable it by simply cutting the wire, rendering the system useless.

“I try to cut the main wires to the power supply, and after that, the telephone wires. Most alarm systems send a signal through phone lines when someone breaks in.”

While a home invader can’t cut alarm wires to disable a wireless alarm system, there is a tactic called “crash and smash” whereby a thief could “crash” into your house via a window or door and “smash” your security system before the alarm company can be notified.
Quote:
The House recently decided to spend $10,000 per member to upgrade security at their homes. I'm pretty sure it went to installing alarms and hardening the perimeter. The experts must think it's a worthwhile investment.
https://www.axios.com/2022/07/27/hou...anced-security
See above regarding burglars bypassing security systems. If a burglar can do it, I doubt a political extremist nut who picks his victim in advance couldn't do the same thing.
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Old 30th October 2022, 02:34 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Nope. That's not what he said at all. A crazy person like DePape and other mentally ill and/or extremists on a mission would likely not be deterred by anything. A 'normal' burglar might be, but their motives are totally different.
.....
Is it your position that nothing would have prevented the attack on Pelosi, so we shouldn't even try? Or would you like to suggest measures that you would consider reasonable and practical?
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Old 30th October 2022, 02:37 PM   #163
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This is the door through which DePape gained access to the house, apparently by breaking the glass and unlatching a door by reaching inside. I don't think it would take much to make that entrance more secure, starting with using double-cylinder locks that require a key on both sides. https://heavy.com/news/paul-pelosi-attack-video/

The choice is just not Fort Knox or nothing.
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Old 30th October 2022, 02:41 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
.....
Alarm systems can be disabled by a burglar:

See above regarding burglars bypassing security systems. If a burglar can do it, I doubt a political extremist nut who picks his victim in advance couldn't do the same thing.
Sure. Nothing is foolproof. But you can be sure that any system installed at the Pelosis' home would be (or sure should be) way more sophisticated than a do-it-yourself project, including battery backups, wireless connections and dedicated cellphone dialers.
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Old 30th October 2022, 02:57 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
This is the door through which DePape gained access to the house, apparently by breaking the glass and unlatching a door by reaching inside. I don't think it would take much to make that entrance more secure, starting with using double-cylinder locks that require a key on both sides. https://heavy.com/news/paul-pelosi-attack-video/

The choice is just not Fort Knox or nothing.

And literally NO-ONE in this thread has claimed this!
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Old 30th October 2022, 03:01 PM   #166
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The Fox News and other conservative coverage of the perpetrator makes this just the latest in a long line of incidents which serve as warnings that people who are "red-pilled" should be taking to heart - that being, anything you said before you were red-pilled absolutely can and will be used against you by the cult that you're joining if it ever becomes rhetorically convenient to repudiate you.

This particular guy was initially a granola-hippy type, and then at some point (he personally identifies the point as "Gamergate") he became "red-pilled" and transitioned into the full-on hardcore QAnon Trumpist he is today, and which he has been for several years by this point. But that doesn't matter, because right-wing pundits have found years-old posts in his social media accounts from back when he still seemed to think it was wrong to mistreat LGBT people and presto, he is now a gay-prostitute libtard.
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Old 30th October 2022, 03:02 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
This is the door through which DePape gained access to the house, apparently by breaking the glass and unlatching a door by reaching inside. I don't think it would take much to make that entrance more secure, starting with using double-cylinder locks that require a key on both sides. https://heavy.com/news/paul-pelosi-attack-video/

The choice is just not Fort Knox or nothing.
Those things are ridiculously unsafe. Picture your home burning. Smoke everywhere. You finally get to the door to escape and...

"Honey, have you seen my keys?"

Or an intruder kicks in one door, and you rush to the back door to escape but...

"Uh, honey...?"

Eta: the article says the assailant entered through a sliding glass door. Since he had a hammer in hand, I don't think a double-keyed sliding glass door cylander (if they exist) would have been a huge deterrent.

Last edited by Thermal; 30th October 2022 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 30th October 2022, 03:18 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Those things are ridiculously unsafe. Picture your home burning. Smoke everywhere. You finally get to the door to escape and...

"Honey, have you seen my keys?"

Or an intruder kicks in one door, and you rush to the back door to escape but...

"Uh, honey...?"

Eta: the article says the assailant entered through a sliding glass door. Since he had a hammer in hand, I don't think a double-keyed sliding glass door cylander (if they exist) would have been a huge deterrent.
Pretty sure they are a building code violation in some places.
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Old 30th October 2022, 03:20 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Is it your position that nothing would have prevented the attack on Pelosi, so we shouldn't even try?
Nope, not at all...and I find it rather odd that you could possibly infer that from what I've said unless you are deliberately choosing to.

After the amount of protesting and vandalism at the Pelosi home for years, and considering her position, I would highly doubt they don't have a security system. We do know there are cameras outside the home. It would not surprise me if it's deliberately not being mentioned whether they do or not by the police.

Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Or would you like to suggest measures that you would consider reasonable and practical?
I already have twice when I said:

"I agree that an alarm system would be a logical thing to have if, in fact, they don't have one...which we don't know."

and

"But I haven't seen anyone here suggest that a security/alarm system would be unwarranted in any home, much less the Pelosi's."


You apparently have difficulty understanding there's a wide area between having a security/alarm system and putting bars on your windows like a prison.
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Old 30th October 2022, 03:25 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Sure. Nothing is foolproof. But you can be sure that any system installed at the Pelosis' home would be (or sure should be) way more sophisticated than a do-it-yourself project, including battery backups, wireless connections and dedicated cellphone dialers.
Let me see if repeating this for the umpteenth time helps you:

WE DON'T KNOW THEY IF HAVE A SECURITY SYSTEM OR NOT.
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Old 30th October 2022, 03:29 PM   #171
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I like how quickly this thread has gone from Obvious MAGA to crazy person to let's talk about home security.
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Old 30th October 2022, 03:38 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Are you now claiming that Pelosi provided the hammer?
Nope. Which I clarified with this post:

"Too late to edit my original post above, so I'll do it here. Newyorkguy's video was the first report Ive seen, after looking through many stories just before I made the above post, that it was Depape who brought the hammer and not one Pelosi may have picked up to defend himself."


Quote:
And the presumption is that anyone who keeps firearms knows how and when to use them. That might not always be true, but Pelosi could certainly have paid for the best training there is.
LOL! Are you freaking kidding me?! No, it's not a case of "that might not be always true," it's a matter of "it's not always true". You think anyone who keeps a gun has had training on it? Oh, man....

Great. In your opinion, what is the answer?[/quote]

If you had read more carefully what I've actually written instead of seeing what you want to see, I've already covered that.
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Old 30th October 2022, 03:45 PM   #173
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David DePape's former 'life partner,' Oxane Taub, contacted ABC News in San Francisco to discuss David. She was calling from the California Institution For Women where Ms. Taub currently resides.
Quote:
Taub told ABC7 News that she and DePape met more than 20 years ago. Together they raised their two sons and her daughter until about seven years ago...[After disappearing] "He came back in very bad shape. He thought he was Jesus. He was constantly paranoid, thinking people were after him," Taub said. "And it took a good year or two to get back to, you know, being halfway normal." ABC News link
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File Type: jpg David DePape.jpg (29.0 KB, 8 views)
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Old 30th October 2022, 04:01 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Security bars can be decorative, even artistic.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/307652218306920313/

They can be designed to look like part of the window itself.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/704180091732584481/
And? You still know you are living with bars on your windows out of fear.

Quote:
They can even be installed inside so they are not visible from the street.

So you only have to look at them from inside? Great!

I've never thought of "bars" as a four-letter word. Where do you live that you've never seen bars on windows?[/quote]

Oh, I have! When I lived in Orange County, CA, I saw them every single time I drove to LAX. They looked like this:




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Old 30th October 2022, 04:10 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I like how quickly this thread has gone from Obvious MAGA to crazy person to let's talk about home security.
This guy is obvious MAGA and he is mentally ill. And home security, while somewhat relevant, became a hill for someone to take a last stand on.
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Old 30th October 2022, 04:11 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
David DePape's former 'life partner,' Oxane Taub, contacted ABC News in San Francisco to discuss David. She was calling from the California Institution For Women where Ms. Taub currently resides.
She considers where he is now "half-way normal"?
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Old 30th October 2022, 05:41 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
This guy is obvious MAGA and he is mentally ill...
... which is pretty much redundant.
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Old 30th October 2022, 06:52 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
She considers where he is now "half-way normal"?
You're referring to someone who has previously been convicted of trying to kidnap a child, so...
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Old 30th October 2022, 08:19 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Those things are ridiculously unsafe. Picture your home burning. Smoke everywhere. You finally get to the door to escape and...

"Honey, have you seen my keys?"

Or an intruder kicks in one door, and you rush to the back door to escape but...

"Uh, honey...?"

Eta: the article says the assailant entered through a sliding glass door. Since he had a hammer in hand, I don't think a double-keyed sliding glass door cylander (if they exist) would have been a huge deterrent.
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Pretty sure they are a building code violation in some places.
The building code here requires that any deadbolt must be a "retained key" type. If the deadbolt is locked from the inside, you cannot pull the key out.
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Old 30th October 2022, 08:24 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Perhaps the video was taken long after the fact, after the cops had left or finished? My Two-Minute-Mysteries vibe shows me that the broken glass is on the outside, making it appear that it was broken from the inside. (I can't see enough detail of the interior.) And it's the other door that's open. Curious. Again, it may have been done by the police but it's the kinds of things that elicit weird speculation.

I already submitted a crazy theory above and have seen people spouting similar things on Twitter. Sometimes I hate having such an imagination. I only said it because I thought it was the most ridiculous thing people could come up with.
I’m guessing Mr. Pelosi was actually hit with a paranormal hat.
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Old 30th October 2022, 08:40 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Let me see if repeating this for the umpteenth time helps you:

WE DON'T KNOW THEY IF HAVE A SECURITY SYSTEM OR NOT.
For the purposes here, it doesn't really matter whether they have a security system if he didn't turn it on. But the fact that he had to secretly call 911 instead of hitting a panic button makes me wonder.

Pelosi was almost killed. It's too early to know whether he might have permanent brain damage. I continue to contend that almost anything that could have prevented the attack would have been worth it.

And I don't understand the complaints that "nothing will stop a determined assassin." When in U.S. history has a public official been killed by a "determined assassin" invading his home? Every assassinated President -- and MLK, RFK, John Lennon, Malcolm X, etc., etc. -- has been killed in a public place by a crazy loner (take discussions about Oswald to a different thread). The primary threat at home is a lunatic, not a hit team.
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Old 30th October 2022, 08:44 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
This guy is obvious MAGA and he is mentally ill. And home security, while somewhat relevant, became a hill for someone to take a last stand on.
For the sake of discussion, if the guy is "mentally ill," should he be exempted from prosecution? Suppose he spends three months in a hospital and his docs say "He's made great progress. We'll treat him as an outpatient." Should he be back on the streets? (Maybe he could be a spokesman for an alarm company.)
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Old 30th October 2022, 09:00 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Those things are ridiculously unsafe. Picture your home burning. Smoke everywhere. You finally get to the door to escape and...

"Honey, have you seen my keys?"

Or an intruder kicks in one door, and you rush to the back door to escape but...

"Uh, honey...?"

Eta: the article says the assailant entered through a sliding glass door. Since he had a hammer in hand, I don't think a double-keyed sliding glass door cylander (if they exist) would have been a huge deterrent.
Anybody using such locks hides spare keys or leaves them in plain view where an intruder can't see or reach from outside. I think the initial reports about "sliding doors" are just wrong. I suspect somebody just misunderstood a reference to "patio doors." The picture shows what are generally called French doors, hinged double doors. As I think about it, you wouldn't even need double-cylinder locks, which, as some observe, might be illegal. You'd just need sliders at the top and bottom of each door. An intruder could still get to them, but he'd have to take more time to smash more windows.

Last edited by Bob001; 30th October 2022 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 30th October 2022, 11:41 PM   #184
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Lots of hysteria about this. People claiming the whole thing is fake or a cover-up for something else.
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Old 30th October 2022, 11:48 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
For the purposes here, it doesn't really matter whether they have a security system if he didn't turn it on.
Oh...you mean like I've mentioned more than once?

"We don't know that there wasn't an alarm system. If there is, it may not have been turned on which is common. Lots of people only turn them on when they leave the house."

"As I've said before, we don't KNOW the house doesn't have a security/alarm system that wasn't activated."

Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
But the fact that he had to secretly call 911 instead of hitting a panic button makes me wonder.
Pelosi was sleeping when DePape entered his bedroom and woke him up. When was he supposed to hit a panic button?

Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Pelosi was almost killed. It's too early to know whether he might have permanent brain damage.
His doctors said they expect him to make a full recovery. If there's brain damage, they'd know it by now.

Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I continue to contend that almost anything that could have prevented the attack would have been worth it.
Yes, that's no secret: we know you've chosen this hill to die on.

Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
And I don't understand the complaints that "nothing will stop a determined assassin."
Maybe because no one has said that?

Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
When in U.S. history has a public official been killed by a "determined assassin" invading his home?
Sec. of State William Seward would have been stabbed to death if not for a stroke of luck: He was wearing a neck brace due to an accident a month earlier.

"Simultaneously, a Booth accomplice, Lewis Paine, brutally attacked Secretary of State William Seward (1801-1872) at his home with a knife. Seward survived because Paine's knife was deflected by a metal collar he wore from a severe accident. Seward slowly recovered from his wounds and continued to serve as Secretary of State under Lincoln's successor, Andrew Johnson. "

"In his attempt to murder Secretary William Seward, Lewis Powell [aka Lewis Paine] would inflict serious injuries on eight people, including four of Seward's children, a bodyguard, and a messenger."

Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Every assassinated President -- and MLK, RFK, John Lennon, Malcolm X, etc., etc. -- has been killed in a public place by a crazy loner (take discussions about Oswald to a different thread). The primary threat at home is a lunatic, not a hit team.
Tell that to Osama bin Laden, Haiti's President Jovenel Moïse, Guinea-Bissau President Joao Bernardo Vieira who were all assassinated at home by professionals.

Sharon Tate, along with several others, including a friend of my late FIL's, were killed by a hit team sent by Charles Manson.
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Old 30th October 2022, 11:51 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
For the sake of discussion, if the guy is "mentally ill," should he be exempted from prosecution? Suppose he spends three months in a hospital and his docs say "He's made great progress. We'll treat him as an outpatient." Should he be back on the streets? (Maybe he could be a spokesman for an alarm company.)
It would not surprise me if DePape is found to be too mentally ill to stand trial or even not guilty by reason of insanity. I'm sure he'll get a full mental evaluation.
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Old 31st October 2022, 02:02 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
For the sake of discussion, if the guy is "mentally ill," should he be exempted from prosecution?
No. It might mean he should be exempted from conviction, but that's something that should be decided by a jury.
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Old 31st October 2022, 02:14 AM   #188
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I really don't understand the usefulness of the "security measures" discussion. The patio doors are plainly like 90% glass and there's absolutely no configuration of locks you could have theoretically put on them that was going to inconvenience a guy who came with a hammer and is fine with smashing through as much glass as he needs to because he obviously gives less than a damn about making any noise or being detected.
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Old 31st October 2022, 02:32 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
No. It might mean he should be exempted from conviction, but that's something that should be decided by a jury.
He may not stand trial at all if he is found to be mentally incompetent after a mental health evaluation.
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Old 31st October 2022, 02:46 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Absolutely...and it all goes back to one man: Donald John Trump. And now that Elon Musk has bought Twitter, he'll probably be able to spew his crap through that again.
It goes back farther than that, Barry Goldwater started the republican party on the road to is current position as a treasonous terrorist group by allying the party with southern neo-confederates and far right fundamentalist christians. Trump is a symptom of the disease in the US body politic, not a cause.
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Old 31st October 2022, 04:51 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Lots of hysteria about this. People claiming the whole thing is fake or a cover-up for something else.
We are in the Denial Phase. Soon it will migrate into the Downplaying Phase.
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Old 31st October 2022, 05:29 AM   #192
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MAGA morons are stupid enough to fall for anything.
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Old 31st October 2022, 05:37 AM   #193
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In a criminal proceeding in California I think the phrase is "Competent to stand trial." Below is a quote from the SHouse law firm in California.
Quote:
Federal and state law require that a person must be competent in order to stand trial for a criminal charge. Competency means that a defendant understands the nature of the court process. This includes a grasp of the charges and parties involved. Competency ensures that the criminal defendant can rationally assist in his or her own defense...Note that incompetency is not the same as insanity. The former is not a defense while insanity is a legal defense and works if the defendant was legally insane at the time of the commission of the crime. Link to SHouse website
The defendant's lawyer can request a competency hearing pre-trial. A judge can request a hearing as well, based on observed behavior at pre-trial hearings. The defendant ordered to undergo a competency hearing will be examined by a court-appointed psychiatrist. The finding is whether the defendant understands the nature of the proceedings and whether he can assist in his own defense. It's a Sixth Amendment issue, guaranteeing everyone a fair trial. If the competency hearing judge finds the defendant is incompetent, the defendant is remanded to a psychiatric facility, probably for a long long time. If the defendant is ever found to have regained competency, I think the criminal charges get reinstated.
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Old 31st October 2022, 05:43 AM   #194
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We’ll know what happened once the authorities conclude their investigation
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Old 31st October 2022, 05:58 AM   #195
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This was obviously just a hoax. Just like January 6. Just like Charlottesville. Just like the guy who was mailing pipe bombs to Democrats and news anchors (anyone remember him?). Just like the guy who shot up the Walmart in El Paso.

Hoax after hoax after hoax. Certainly not the result of a major political party speaking directly to violent radicals using the most inflammatory language that fits the textbook definition of stochastic terrorism.
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Old 31st October 2022, 06:54 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle View Post
It goes back farther than that, Barry Goldwater started the republican party on the road to is current position as a treasonous terrorist group by allying the party with southern neo-confederates and far right fundamentalist christians. Trump is a symptom of the disease in the US body politic, not a cause.
I don't think so.

Quote:
“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.” - Barry Goldwater
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Old 31st October 2022, 07:50 AM   #197
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Stay classy cokehead

https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald...tack-with-meme
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Old 31st October 2022, 07:58 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I really don't understand the usefulness of the "security measures" discussion. The patio doors are plainly like 90% glass and there's absolutely no configuration of locks you could have theoretically put on them that was going to inconvenience a guy who came with a hammer and is fine with smashing through as much glass as he needs to because he obviously gives less than a damn about making any noise or being detected.
They might be glass, but there are still ways to slow him down. Stacy said Paul was in bed. If it took this guy a good couple of swings to get through the windows then it might have woken Paul up and given him time to react rather than being woken in bed.

To others this appears as victim blaming which I find to be ******* stupid, honestly. The cops responded in 2 minutes, why is it wrong to think of ways to slow down an intruder that would have helped an 82 year old man from getting hurt? No one has said Paul deserved it or that it was his fault. Why the **** would anyone ever say that? Yet, here I am, having been accused of victim blaming multiple times.

Usually when an event happens we find logical ways to prevent it from happening again, except for this thread, apparently. I can't imagine why, but the "no one wants the house to look ugly" has been super compelling lol.
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Old 31st October 2022, 08:04 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
They might be glass, but there are still ways to slow him down. Stacy said Paul was in bed. If it took this guy a good couple of swings to get through the windows then it might have woken Paul up and given him time to react rather than being woken in bed.

To others this appears as victim blaming which I find to be ******* stupid, honestly. The cops responded in 2 minutes, why is it wrong to think of ways to slow down an intruder that would have helped an 82 year old man from getting hurt? No one has said Paul deserved it or that it was his fault. Why the **** would anyone ever say that? Yet, here I am, having been accused of victim blaming multiple times.

Usually when an event happens we find logical ways to prevent it from happening again, except for this thread, apparently. I can't imagine why, but the "no one wants the house to look ugly" has been super compelling lol.
Perhaps the distinction between suggesting what to do going forward, and what should have been done before, has not been clear.
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Old 31st October 2022, 08:15 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Perhaps the distinction between suggesting what to do going forward, and what should have been done before, has not been clear.
But to me they're the same thing. Recognizing what could have been done is not all that different than stating would could be done in the future. You're recognizing areas that need improvement and coming up with solutions.

Is anyone here under the impression the cops and Nancy aren't going to do the same thing with him? If they have an alarm system, I bet they'll tell him to set it. I bet they'll find ways to secure the house a bit more. If something like this happened to my parents, or someone in my family, that's the first damn thing we'd do. Who wouldn't and why wouldn't you?
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