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Old 31st October 2022, 02:53 PM   #241
plague311
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Have you seen his medical records? Pelosi is still in the ICU. I hope he recovers completely. But the links I saw and others seem to indicate that consequences might not be immediately apparent, especially for an 82-year-old victim.
Yeah, I haven't seen anything related to what his cognitive abilities will be and I've looked around a bit today. Lots of sources saying he'll make a full physical recovery. I hope he does, absolutely. I just don't think the true extent will be known until he starts moving around, talking, doing household chores and stuff.
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Old 31st October 2022, 02:59 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Yeah, I haven't seen anything related to what his cognitive abilities will be and I've looked around a bit today. Lots of sources saying he'll make a full physical recovery. I hope he does, absolutely. I just don't think the true extent will be known until he starts moving around, talking, doing household chores and stuff.
He's doing well:

Quote:
Paul Pelosi Speaks to Investigators From SF Hospital Bed Days After Attack: Report
Authorities say he appears to have all his cognitive functioning

Paul Pelosi is awake and coherent and talking with investigators from his hospital bed days after he was attacked and brutally beaten in a home invasion early Friday, according to a report from NBC News, citing a source with knowledge of the investigation.

On Sunday, investigators from San Francisco police, Capitol Police, the FBI and the San Francisco District Attorney's Office took Pelosi's testimony, NBC News reported. Pelosi has all of his cognitive functioning and appeared to remember everything as he recounted his version of the events, according to the report.
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Old 31st October 2022, 03:10 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Elon Musk just tweeted a BS conspiracy theory about the Pelosi attack.
Man, that Time Man Of The Year award went to his head.
Again, or are you a couple of days behind?
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Old 31st October 2022, 03:15 PM   #244
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Kari Lake joked about Paul Pelosi being attacked at a campaign event today:

It is not impossible to protect our kids at school. They act like it is. Nancy Pelosi, well...she's got protection when she's in DC but apparently her husband doesn't have a lot of protection."

The audience laughed. Rona McDaniel, the RNC Chairperson declared it was 'unfair' to link the attack on Pelosi with the rhetoric coming from the right-wing. This along with Donnie Jr's 'funny' Halloween costume tweet begs the question once again: What the ********* is wrong with these people?
"Compassionate Conservatism" my fat arse.
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Old 31st October 2022, 03:47 PM   #245
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Part of the DOJ timeline of the attack:

https://twitter.com/fordm/status/158...TXF7-SYZFjSvHQ
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Old 31st October 2022, 03:56 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Part of the DOJ timeline of the attack:

https://twitter.com/fordm/status/158...TXF7-SYZFjSvHQ
I wonder who is the "individual" that DePape said he wanted "Nancy to lure to him".

The Republicans are turning themselves inside out trying to distance this from their hateful rhetoric by claiming it's linked to "crime" instead. Twist and turn as they might, the truth is obvious to anyone who cares to see it. And MAGA Republicans choose willful blindness.
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Old 31st October 2022, 04:22 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I wonder who is the "individual" that DePape said he wanted "Nancy to lure to him".

The Republicans are turning themselves inside out trying to distance this from their hateful rhetoric by claiming it's linked to "crime" instead. Twist and turn as they might, the truth is obvious to anyone who cares to see it. And MAGA Republicans choose willful blindness.
Except for the ones who seem to approve of the attack...
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Old 31st October 2022, 06:40 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
That would be the place for tasteful security doors and shatterproof safety glass.
As long as we're talking theoretical, they COULD have razed the house as soon as they bought it and built just a big steel box with a sally-port and bullet-proof everything on the plot to live in instead.
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Old 31st October 2022, 07:29 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I came in to check to see if it had moved on to denouncing Elon Musk.
That bastard!
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Old 31st October 2022, 08:02 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
I’m guessing Mr. Pelosi was actually hit with a paranormal hat.
I've been around long enough that I get that reference.
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Old 31st October 2022, 09:35 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
As long as we're talking theoretical, they COULD have razed the house as soon as they bought it and built just a big steel box with a sally-port and bullet-proof everything on the plot to live in instead.
There's nothing theoretical about stuff you can buy off-the-shelf at Home Depot.
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Old 31st October 2022, 09:49 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Quote:
The Republicans are turning themselves inside out trying to distance this from their hateful rhetoric by claiming it's linked to "crime" instead. Twist and turn as they might, the truth is obvious to anyone who cares to see it. And MAGA Republicans choose willful blindness.
Except for the ones who seem to approve of the attack...
But none of them approve of the attack. They just stood by while people like Trump made calls for violence and claimed the election was stolen, did nothing to address other calls for violence by people like Gosar and Greene, and made jokes (or let their colleagues) about the attack.

But none of them APPROVED.
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Old 31st October 2022, 09:55 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
There's nothing theoretical about stuff you can buy off-the-shelf at Home Depot.
Much simpler to circle the property in chain link fencing, connected to a dedicated 220v feed. Aisle QQ145, next to the bug zappers.
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Old 31st October 2022, 10:00 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Much simpler to circle the property in chain link fencing, connected to a dedicated 220v feed. Aisle QQ145, next to the bug zappers.
Personally I would go with land mines. That should keep any potential trespassers off the property.
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Old 31st October 2022, 10:03 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Personally I would go with land mines. That should keep any potential trespassers off the property.
Lowes has better prices on anti-personnel supplies, and they regularly go on clearance sale. Seems they don't get many repeat buyers.
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Old 31st October 2022, 10:19 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Quote:
From what I understand, many/most alarm systems here in Canada do not call 911 directly. They call the security/alarm company, who tries to follow up (is there a real emergency or false alarm?) before having either security guards or police contacted.

If that's the case, it might have made the response slower than Pelosi simply calling 911 directly when he did. (Especially if Pelosi thought "no need to call 911... my security system did it already.)

ETA: Its also possible that, due to the number of false alarms, police put triggered security alarms at a lower priority than actual 911 calls.
It could work in all those ways. The security company would call the home and ask "Do you need help?," and call the cops if the answer was yes or there was no answer.
And all that would potentially slow down the response time, compared to a direct 911 call.

And that's even assuming the cops bother to show up.
Quote:
That wouldn't keep the homeowner from dialing 911 himself,
It might, depending on what the home owner thinks of their security system.

If the security company advertises "quick response" as part of their sales campaign, a home owner might not think they need to call 911 personally in an emergency.
Quote:
and the neighbors might start calling 911 themselves.
Why? Even an audible alarm probably wouldn't be heard from the neighbor's place (especially in an area where the homes are large and have significant distance between units.)
Quote:
And the police keep records of false alarm calls. I suspect they would respond pretty quickly to an alarm in the middle of the night to a location that hadn't been a problem.
Most alarms are false alarms. Even one that hasn't been a problem before would probably be viewed suspiciously by police. (And that's assuming that there were no false alarms on their property to begin with.)
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Old 31st October 2022, 10:24 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Much simpler to circle the property in chain link fencing, connected to a dedicated 220v feed. Aisle QQ145, next to the bug zappers.
Actually, I meant -- quite seriously -- security doors and bars, window film, alarms and lights, which some other posters insist would be useless.
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Old 31st October 2022, 10:32 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Actually, I meant -- quite seriously -- security doors and bars, window film, alarms and lights, which some other posters insist would be useless.
I am really not seeing why you insist on somehow making this Pelosi's fault because she "should have converted her house into Fort Knox." Do other Reps on either side have the kind of security systems you talk about for their houses?
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Old 31st October 2022, 10:39 PM   #259
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Re: Government paying for congress-critters to get security upgrades
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yes, I get the obvious difference. My objection is that when you are drowning in cash, you really don't need to suckle at the taxpayer teat at every opportunity.
A few things to keep in mind:

The average congress-critter makes ~$174k. The average salary for a lawyer is ~$144k, although in at least one state it is over $170k. (I am using lawyer as comparison since many of them have law degrees.)

Now, senators/representatives are earning substantially more than the average wage in the U.S., but it doesn't really seem to be too far out of line with lawyers (who have a similar skill set). Add to that the need for many of them to maintain multiple residences (one in their home state, one in Washington DC), and they aren't necessarily 'drowning in cash'.

Now there are some in congress who are wealthy and don't need extra funding for security. (Joe Manchin is a millionaire for example from outside businesses. Others may have book deals, etc.) But they have to set things up so that they can cover a congressman who is new to the position and didn't build up any wealth before entering congress.

Quote:
As noted already, $10k + $150/mo is an awful lot of money for security and cameras and deadbolts.
Its a maximum. Its quite possible that most won't come anywhere near that amount. (And keep in mind that they may have multiple residences, so that cost might be spread among 2 or more houses.)
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Old 31st October 2022, 10:41 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
I am really not see why you insist on somehow making this Pelosi's fault because she "should have converted her house into Fort Knox." Do other Reps on either side have the kind of security systems you talk about for their houses?
Except for bars, many ordinary people do have such things. Motion detecting lights are everywhere. Strong doors with pick resistant locks are standard issue, as are deadbolts. Basic wireless security systems with door and window alarms and a couple motion detectors are often installed free with $40/month monitoring contractual commitment.

None of that will much slow down one determined nut with a hammer and a grudge.
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Old 31st October 2022, 10:46 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
I am really not seeing why you insist on somehow making this Pelosi's fault because she "should have converted her house into Fort Knox." Do other Reps on either side have the kind of security systems you talk about for their houses?
Aw, c'mon, nobody is blaming Pelosi. She is second in succession to the presidency. Her security -- including her home and her family -- is a national responsibility.

Last edited by Bob001; 31st October 2022 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 31st October 2022, 10:47 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Except for bars, many ordinary people do have such things. Motion detecting lights are everywhere. Strong doors with pick resistant locks are standard issue, as are deadbolts. Basic wireless security systems with door and window alarms and a couple motion detectors are often installed free with $40/month monitoring contractual commitment.

None of that will much slow down one determined nut with a hammer and a grudge.
You just have to slow him down until the cops roll up.
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Old 31st October 2022, 10:49 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Re: Government paying for congress-critters to get security upgrades

A few things to keep in mind:

The average congress-critter makes ~$174k. The average salary for a lawyer is ~$144k, although in at least one state it is over $170k. (I am using lawyer as comparison since many of them have law degrees.)

Now, senators/representatives are earning substantially more than the average wage in the U.S., but it doesn't really seem to be too far out of line with lawyers (who have a similar skill set). Add to that the need for many of them to maintain multiple residences (one in their home state, one in Washington DC), and they aren't necessarily 'drowning in cash'.

Now there are some in congress who are wealthy and don't need extra funding for security. (Joe Manchin is a millionaire for example from outside businesses. Others may have book deals, etc.) But they have to set things up so that they can cover a congressman who is new to the position and didn't build up any wealth before entering congress.
More than half our representatives are millionaires, a benchmark set a decade ago.


https://ballotpedia.org/Net_worth_of...epresentatives

As I said earlier, though, an incoming freshman might need the extra boost. The majority solidly do not.

Quote:
Its a maximum. Its quite possible that most won't come anywhere near that amount. (And keep in mind that they may have multiple residences, so that cost might be spread among 2 or more houses.)
If they have multiple residences, they are already on Team Solvent Enough to Pay their Own Way.
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Old 31st October 2022, 10:50 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
And all that would potentially slow down the response time, compared to a direct 911 call.

And that's even assuming the cops bother to show up.

It might, depending on what the home owner thinks of their security system.

If the security company advertises "quick response" as part of their sales campaign, a home owner might not think they need to call 911 personally in an emergency.

Why? Even an audible alarm probably wouldn't be heard from the neighbor's place (especially in an area where the homes are large and have significant distance between units.)

Most alarms are false alarms. Even one that hasn't been a problem before would probably be viewed suspiciously by police. (And that's assuming that there were no false alarms on their property to begin with.)

There's a lot of supposition there. Cite a source. According to press reports the cops arrived two minutes after the dispatcher sent them, even though Pelosi never actually said "I need the police." And I can't imagine why you think alarms aren't effective.
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Old 31st October 2022, 10:53 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
You just have to slow him down until the cops roll up.
I'd say not much of that would. Deadbolts impress people who never tried to kick open a door. It is so much easier than you would think.

All this of course assumes the almost supernatural police response time reported in this story. In the last place I lived, the 5-0 could be expected in 17 minutes after the call.
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Old 31st October 2022, 11:10 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I'd say not much of that would. Deadbolts impress people who never tried to kick open a door. It is so much easier than you would think.
....
A steel door in a steel frame might be harder than you think. A lot of doors are hollow-core wood. Those are the ones that are easy.
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Old 31st October 2022, 11:22 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
A steel door in a steel frame might be harder than you think. A lot of doors are hollow-core wood. Those are the ones that are easy.
Residential steel doors are not hard to mangle with a couple hard kicks, but steel frames create a very different game. Kicking in a door, the jamb is what gives first, being the weakest link. We kick out the doors for fun on demolition jobs. It's so easy when you don't care about the mess.

Steel frames aren't common on high end houses though (IME) because they tend not to look nice. People spending money tend to prioritize the everyday beauty much more than industrial looking security, and I don't blame them.

The best security feature, I am told, is a good size dog who doesn't like strangers. That will for sure occupy a guy with a hammer longer than window film will.

eta: hollow core wood exterior doors are pretty rare, usually solid. Fiberglass doors have been gaining popularity, and are featherweight easy to destroy.

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Old 31st October 2022, 11:25 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Much simpler to circle the property in chain link fencing, connected to a dedicated 220v feed. Aisle QQ145, next to the bug zappers.
Bug zappers? Home Depot has BUG ZAPPERS? WOOOOOHOOOOOO!
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Old 31st October 2022, 11:29 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Quote:
And all that would potentially slow down the response time, compared to a direct 911 call.

And that's even assuming the cops bother to show up.

It might, depending on what the home owner thinks of their security system.

If the security company advertises "quick response" as part of their sales campaign, a home owner might not think they need to call 911 personally in an emergency.
...
Most alarms are false alarms. Even one that hasn't been a problem before would probably be viewed suspiciously by police. (And that's assuming that there were no false alarms on their property to begin with.)
There's a lot of supposition there. Cite a source.
From: CBS News
...with about 95 percent of the nation's 38 million yearly alarms turning out to be false, according to a national police group, authorities increasingly aren't coming when a siren sounds. The LAPD is poised to join nine large other police departments nationwide - including Baltimore, Las Vegas and Salt Lake City - that do not respond to alarms unverified by a private security guard, a surveillance camera or a resident.... police in Los Angeles, Chicago, New York and dozens of other cities place alarm calls at a low priority, meaning officers may not arrive for up to an hour or more.

Now, its possible that the Pelosi residence might be given a higher priority. (and/or they may be able to afford better quality service.). But there are no guarantees.
Quote:
According to press reports the cops arrived two minutes after the dispatcher sent them, even though Pelosi never actually said "I need the police."
Although he never said "i need the police", he was still able to let them know there were problems from the way he spoke. (He asked Depape things like 'Why are you here? What are you going to do to me?", which was overheard by the 911 operator.)

See: The Guardian

And even if he didn't specifically say "I need the police", I suspect a live 911 call (even one with no dialog) will get more attention from emergency services than security alarms, since it is a bit harder to "accidently" call 911.

Now lets say they did have a security alarm, that successfully picked up the initial break in. What would happen? First of all, the security company would probably wait a minute or 2 before doing anything. (Why? Because in the case of an accidental alarm getting triggered they need to give time for the home owner to shut off the alarm themselves.) Then they would call the home to see if there is a problem... assuming Pelosi didn't answer, that call would probably use up another 1 or 2 minutes. Then they would call the police, which would take a minute or 2 to contact them, give the details, etc. So you're already 5 minutes in before the cops can start to respond. And that's assuming they consider it a high priority, and not a low priority "another alarm, probably false, no rush".
Quote:
And I can't imagine why you think alarms aren't effective.
Actually I never said they "aren't effective". What I am claiming is that they may not be effective enough, and may not have helped in this particular case.
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Old 31st October 2022, 11:40 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Quote:
Re: Government paying for congress-critters to get security upgrades
Now, senators/representatives are earning substantially more than the average wage in the U.S., but it doesn't really seem to be too far out of line with lawyers (who have a similar skill set). Add to that the need for many of them to maintain multiple residences (one in their home state, one in Washington DC), and they aren't necessarily 'drowning in cash'.

Now there are some in congress who are wealthy and don't need extra funding for security....But they have to set things up so that they can cover a congressman who is new to the position and didn't build up any wealth before entering congress.
More than half our representatives are millionaires, a benchmark set a decade ago.

As I said earlier, though, an incoming freshman might need the extra boost. The majority solidly do not.
But they still have to design the law/subsidies/etc. to handle the worst case scenario (which is a new senator who isn't wealthy.) You could try to build in some sort of "means test" to ensure only non-wealthy congressmen get the security subsidy, but that would probably cost more than just using a standard 'everyone can get if if they ask'.
Quote:
If they have multiple residences, they are already on Team Solvent Enough to Pay their Own Way.
When I talk about multiple residences, I am referring to a home both in Washington DC (where they will spend time when congress is in session) and in their home state. Even a non-wealthy representative will have that need.
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Old 31st October 2022, 11:46 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
I am really not seeing why you insist on somehow making this Pelosi's fault because she "should have converted her house into Fort Knox." Do other Reps on either side have the kind of security systems you talk about for their houses?
I heard that the "Alcatraz" look is the latest home trend among Dem Congressmembers.
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Old 1st November 2022, 01:37 AM   #272
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For what it's worth, aerial images show that the homes in this neighborhood are quite close together.

Also, none of the surrounding homes have any evident barred windows or other such blatant security measures on them that I could see; and lots of ground-level windows and large glass patio-entries seem to be a common feature.
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Old 1st November 2022, 01:58 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Kari Lake joked about Paul Pelosi being attacked at a campaign event today:

It is not impossible to protect our kids at school. They act like it is. Nancy Pelosi, well...she's got protection when she's in DC but apparently her husband doesn't have a lot of protection."

The audience laughed. Rona McDaniel, the RNC Chairperson declared it was 'unfair' to link the attack on Pelosi with the rhetoric coming from the right-wing. This along with Donnie Jr's 'funny' Halloween costume tweet begs the question once again: What the ********* is wrong with these people?
"Compassionate Conservatism" my fat arse.
WTF is wrong with Don Jr?

Well, how long have you got?

There is probably a lot wrong, but proximally "Obvious MAGA" and heavy cocaine abuse.
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Old 1st November 2022, 04:28 AM   #274
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D'Souza's tweets

Politico reported: “The Left is going crazy because not only are we not BUYING the wacky, implausible Paul Pelosi story but we are even LAUGHING over how ridiculous it is,” Dinesh D’Souza posted Sunday morning to his 2.5 million Twitter followers. “What this means is that we are no longer intimidated by their fake pieties. Their control over us has finally been broken.”

I found another tweet: "Paul Pelosi KNEW his attacker and NAMED him in his 911 call. Media accounts are suppressing this key fact. Listen to the call and you can verify it for yourself. We are not—I repeat not—getting the full story on this."

Something may indeed be broken, but I don't think it has much to do with fake pieties.
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Old 1st November 2022, 06:12 AM   #275
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Man, reading this thread I'm surprised anyone takes any security measures. Why are we even paying them for it? The people here are all but saying it's ******* useless. I can't imagine why the taxpayers are footing the bill.

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. The false equivalencies are off the ******* charts. Saying to get some simple home security measures is "turning into Fort Knox" lol.

I take it no one here has a security system, deadbolts, locks their doors or anything? Right? After all, you guys don't live in FORT KNOX or anything like that!

******* mind blowing.
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Old 1st November 2022, 08:05 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Man, reading this thread I'm surprised anyone takes any security measures. Why are we even paying them for it? The people here are all but saying it's ******* useless. I can't imagine why the taxpayers are footing the bill.

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. The false equivalencies are off the ******* charts. Saying to get some simple home security measures is "turning into Fort Knox" lol.

I take it no one here has a security system, deadbolts, locks their doors or anything? Right? After all, you guys don't live in FORT KNOX or anything like that!

******* mind blowing.
One can say it would have been a good idea to have better security but that's still not the same as saying that the action of a madman is the fault of anyone but himself. We still do not know entirely what security did exist. No doubt something will be done to improve it now, and it's a sad commentary on our world that it is even an issue.

Sure I have a lock on my door, and lock the house when I leave. But living in what is at least usually a safe place, as I sit here in the middle of the day the house is not locked. Now of course I'm not an important politician either, but there really is a difference in the level of security you expect to need during the day. If Pelosi had been attacked when he went out to walk the dog, would we be saying now that he should have thought to have an armed guard?

I realize we live in a society fraught with villains and madmen, if not downright ruled by them, a world in which the solution to the mass murder of our children is found in shooter drills and militarized school doors - where not living on the presumption that one will be attacked by crazed lunatics is becoming a false paradise - but I still think that some of this argument looks like grabbing the wrong end of the rope.
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Old 1st November 2022, 08:10 AM   #277
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A quick listen to a few talk radio stations on the way in to work this morning, a quick look at twitter: The Conservative talk-o-sphere and social media thing is in full CT/Denial mode on this. At least as big as the upcoming election.

Also, they don't know much about breaking windows. They were hitting really hard on the broken glass being outside, not inside. Despite their love for YouTube videos to explain all their idiot theories, they can't seem to bother to even use the platform to look up video of people breaking windows.

Hint: much, or even most of the broken glass ends up outside, either from a bit of rebound by the remaining unbroken glass, or from outer pane glass bouncing off the inner pane, or pulled out with the tool.

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Old 1st November 2022, 08:27 AM   #278
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We are also not given details about security systems since we probably don’t want others to know. That the patio door had safety glass is already a lot of info given away.
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Old 1st November 2022, 08:30 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
A quick listen to a few talk radio stations on the way in to work this morning, a quick look at twitter: The Conservative talk-o-sphere and social media thing is in full CT/Denial mode on this. At least as big as the upcoming election.

Also, they don't know much about breaking windows. They were hitting really hard on the broken glass being outside, not inside. Despite their love for YouTube videos to explain all their idiot theories, they can't seem to bother to even use the platform to look up video of people breaking windows.

Hint: much, or even most of the broken glass ends up outside, either from a bit of rebound by the remaining unbroken glass, or from outer pane glass bouncing off the inner pane, or pulled out with the tool.

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Old 1st November 2022, 08:46 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Bug zappers? Home Depot has BUG ZAPPERS? WOOOOOHOOOOOO!
A little known fact about Home Depot is that it serves as a pickup point for items bought on the Dark Web, operating on the amazon locker model, but hidden in pallets of assorted fasteners.

Also, while pushing through dented and rusted cans of fiberglass resin (in search of a clean one), I'm like halfway sure I ran across a codex from the Library of Alexandria. It's surprising what you lose track of when you hire stoner teens to do your inventory.
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