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Tags politics , trump

View Poll Results: What will Trump's big 'announcement' be on Tuesday?
He is officially running for president 20 35.71%
An unofficial "Thinking of running" but not officially running for president 9 16.07%
Legal action of some time (such as against criminal investigations into his activities) 0 0%
Something business-related 0 0%
No announcement, just ranting 15 26.79%
Announcement gets cancelled 4 7.14%
Something else 3 5.36%
Trump is from planet X, and will now be returning home 5 8.93%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 16th November 2022, 08:13 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
That didn't work out too well last time.
This isn't last time. Many significant variables have changed.
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:18 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Okay, actually 90% agree. The election deniers were punished. At the ballot box.
Losing an election is not a punishment. Political failure is not a punishment.

To use the metaphor I did before. Imagine you are in a group and you are voting on what to have for dinner. 51% of you choose Pizza and 49% of you choose "Kill the other people and eat them for dinner."

Even if "Pizza" wins in the end you still a REALLY big problem that needs addressing.

"Reaching the limit of how much you are allowed to **** around" isn't the same thing as "finding out."
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:19 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
This isn't last time. Many significant variables have changed.
The biggest one is that he still has supporters after J6. They don't care about democracy or have respect for our country, and are not even hiding it anymore. That's unnerving.
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:20 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
Yeah. This 'repudiation' of the GQP/Trumpisk was a squeaker. And the electorate has the kind of short memory that results in bafflingly pendular, whip-saw swings.

The very fact that this traitor, at this late juncture, is still free and allowed to run for POTUS again is a damning indictment against a country gone mad.
I think many people are failing to appreciate just how historic and consequential the 2022 election was, and what it means in the bigger picture.

2020 felt like a by-the-skin of-our-teeth pushback against Trump and his cult.

2022 is a sound rejection of everything Trump and his cult stands for.

Look, I'm not trying to convince anyone to not feel bad about the prospects for 2024, I'm just saying that there are a lot of good reasons why you don't have to.
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:23 AM   #165
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The election was like a week ago. Both sides haven't even had time to come up with narratives about it yet.

I'll feel bad until Trump, or really anyone, faces consequences that aren't "Well they reached a point where they had to stop doing it."
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:24 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Losing an election is not a punishment. Political failure is not a punishment.

To use the metaphor I did before. Imagine you are in a group and you are voting on what to have for dinner. 51% of you choose Pizza and 49% of you choose "Kill the other people and eat them for dinner."

Even if "Pizza" wins in the end you still a REALLY big problem that needs addressing.

"Reaching the limit of how much you are allowed to **** around" isn't the same thing as "finding out."
+1
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:24 AM   #167
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Why would all those Alpha males want to vote for Trump when he was beaten by the Beta Biden? They don't want a loser!!


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Old 16th November 2022, 08:26 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Losing an election is not a punishment. Political failure is not a punishment.

To use the metaphor I did before. Imagine you are in a group and you are voting on what to have for dinner. 51% of you choose Pizza and 49% of you choose "Kill the other people and eat them for dinner."

Even if "Pizza" wins in the end you still a REALLY big problem that needs addressing.

"Reaching the limit of how much you are allowed to **** around" isn't the same thing as "finding out."
I'm not saying that we don't have very serious problems to contend with regarding Trump and his cult. We do. The wheels of justice turn slowly, but they do turn.

What I am saying is that the American electorate has now rejected Trump and his brand of politics three times in a row, which each subsequent defeat more resounding than the last. It seems pretty clear that we're sick of this guy, and I don't see how that gets turned around in the next two years.
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:28 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
I think many people are failing to appreciate just how historic and consequential the 2022 election was, and what it means in the bigger picture.

2020 felt like a by-the-skin of-our-teeth pushback against Trump and his cult.

2022 is a sound rejection of everything Trump and his cult stands for.

Look, I'm not trying to convince anyone to not feel bad about the prospects for 2024, I'm just saying that there are a lot of good reasons why you don't have to.
I'd venture that a lot of Trumpsters don't vote midterms, because their boy is not on the ticket. Many of them don't want Republicans in office, per se. They want Trump and the neo-fascism he represents in the White House.

Also, it isn't uncommon to have one party controlling Congress and the other in the Presidency. This isn't over just yet
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:29 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The biggest one is that he still has supporters after J6. They don't care about democracy or have respect for our country, and are not even hiding it anymore. That's unnerving.
No offense, but you weren't that concerned about the insurrection on January 6th as it was happening. The threat - while still there and still very potent - isn't somehow worse now. And MAGA cultists committing acts of terrorism isn't going to put Trump back in the White House.
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:32 AM   #171
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And no offense but you're describing pretty much exactly where Hitler was roughly... about halfwayish between the Beer Hall Pustch and the first Jew going in the gas chamber.

And hell Hitler actually went to prison after he tried his coup.
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:32 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I'd venture that a lot of Trumpsters don't vote midterms, because their boy is not on the ticket. Many of them don't want Republicans in office, per se. They want Trump and the neo-fascism he represents in the White House.

Also, it isn't uncommon to have one party controlling Congress and the other in the Presidency. This isn't over just yet
No one said it was over. No one said we shouldn't remain vigilant and continue fighting. We absolutely should.

And by the way, we don't have one party controlling Congress and one the other in the Presidency. And that is extremely, historically uncommon.
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:34 AM   #173
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Also we are just conveniently ignoring that the Republicans own SCOTUS probably the rest of some our lives.

Democrats will not actually have a full government majority ever, at least on a timeline worth talking about in this context.

So talk "Oh but one party controlling the whole government...." is something of a red herring.
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:39 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
And no offense but you're describing pretty much exactly where Hitler was roughly... about halfwayish between the Beer Hall Pustch and the first Jew going in the gas chamber.

And hell Hitler actually went to prison after he tried his coup.
Again, not trying to tell you that you can't be pessimistic. I'm just trying to point out that there are legitimate reasons to feel optimistic.
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:41 AM   #175
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New York Post on this: Florida Man makes announcement. Placed at the very bottom of the front page.
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:41 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
No offense, but you weren't that concerned about the insurrection on January 6th as it was happening.
Come on, man, we've been over this. I was working on a jobsite and getting poor coverage, and I underestimated the threat. When I got up to speed, I copped to being wrong and was quick to call it an insurrection and that he should be promtly arrested for inciting imminent lawless action.

Quote:
The threat - while still there and still very potent - isn't somehow worse now. And MAGA cultists committing acts of terrorism isn't going to put Trump back in the White House.
I think that if you can still support Trump after his profoundly un-American behavior, that is waaaaaaaay worse than it was before. If they can accept J6 and Ratzenberger, they can accept swastikas. There's no more fig leaves. Its not a potential problem anymore. It passed critical mass.
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:46 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Come on, man, we've been over this. I was working on a jobsite and getting poor coverage, and I underestimated the threat. When I got up to speed, I copped to being wrong and was quick to call it an insurrection and that he should be promtly arrested for inciting imminent lawless action.
Hey, I said "no offense".

Quote:
I think that if you can still support Trump after his profoundly un-American behavior, that is waaaaaaaay worse than it was before. If they can accept J6 and Ratzenberger, they can accept swastikas. There's no more fig leaves. Its not a potential problem anymore. It passed critical mass.
Again, I acknowledge that the danger still exists. But that is a separate issue from whether or not Trump can regain the presidency. And I'm pretty sure his supporters committing additional acts of terrorism in his name would put a damper on those prospects.
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:53 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Hey, I said "no offense".



Again, I acknowledge that the danger still exists. But that is a separate issue from whether or not Trump can regain the presidency. And I'm pretty sure his supporters committing additional acts of terrorism in his name would put a damper on those prospects.
Ok. How did you feel about Trump's chances in 2016? I fully expected a Clinton landslide. Did you underestimate The Rise of the Stupid back then? Do you think they evolved since then or devolved?
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:56 AM   #179
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And, full disclosure, I am pretty much the poster child for sneering at the "This will finally be the Trump Downfall Moment(R)!" because I've heard so many times.

As someone once put it "Stop telling me the noose is tightening. He's always that color."
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Old 16th November 2022, 09:01 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Ok. How did you feel about Trump's chances in 2016? I fully expected a Clinton landslide. Did you underestimate The Rise of the Stupid back then? Do you think they evolved since then or devolved?
Trump caught pretty much everyone by surprise in 2016. But this isnít 2016. We see him coming this time.

And as for the Rise of Stupid, yes, thatís definitely gotten worse. But hereís the thing: The Stupid didnít put Trump into office in 2016. The swing voters who thought an outspoken outsider should be a given a chance did. And those same swing voters saw what Trump brought to the table and then rejected him three election cycles in a row. Iím not seeing how he wins them back.
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Old 16th November 2022, 09:07 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Trump caught pretty much everyone by surprise in 2016. But this isn’t 2016. We see him coming this time.

And as for the Rise of Stupid, yes, that’s definitely gotten worse. But here’s the thing: The Stupid didn’t put Trump into office in 2016. The swing voters who thought an outspoken outsider should be a given a chance did. And those same swing voters saw what Trump brought to the table and then rejected him three election cycles in a row. I’m not seeing how he wins them back.
Well, I hope you are right. Seeing that number "70" in front of the word "million" Trump votes in 2020 leaves me uneasy about how close things might be.

We see him coming this time, that's true. But a 70-77mil win margin (or whatever it was) in 2020 is way too close for my comfort.
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Old 16th November 2022, 09:09 AM   #182
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Trump is about to get hit with lawsuits about his Fake Elector scheme, and Kemp, now that the election is over, will have to testify about his "find my some Votes" phone calls.

This announcement is very much intended as a political shield, even though it won't work as a judicial one.
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Old 16th November 2022, 09:10 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
And, full disclosure, I am pretty much the poster child for sneering at the "This will finally be the Trump Downfall Moment(R)!" because I've heard so many times.

As someone once put it "Stop telling me the noose is tightening. He's always that color."
I would argue that Trump's downfall isn't a moment, but a slow-motion, cascading series of events and that it has already begun. And it may not end with the spectacular Death-Star-explosion triumph that we all hope for, but rather the slow unraveling of a small, petty man as his entire world closes in on him and collapses.
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Old 16th November 2022, 09:16 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
I would argue that Trump's downfall isn't a moment, but a slow-motion, cascading series of events and that it has already begun. And it may not end with the spectacular Death-Star-explosion triumph that we all hope for, but rather the slow unraveling of a small, petty man as his entire world closes in on him and collapses.
Unless it involves him actually being punished I don't care how fast or slow (within reason) it takes.

Trump living out the rest of his life sad that he lost isn't what I'm talking about.
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Old 16th November 2022, 09:23 AM   #185
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Old 16th November 2022, 09:23 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Well, I hope you are right. Seeing that number "70" in front of the word "million" Trump votes in 2020 leaves me uneasy about how close things might be.

We see him coming this time, that's true. But a 70-77mil win margin (or whatever it was) in 2020 is way too close for my comfort.
That's why we keep our eyes on the ball and our foot on the gas pedal, if you'll pardon the mixed metaphor.
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Old 16th November 2022, 09:32 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Unless it involves him actually being punished I don't care how fast or slow (within reason) it takes.

Trump living out the rest of his life sad that he lost isn't what I'm talking about.
Well, I think it would be more than that. But I take your point, and actually harbor the same hope. I'm just trying to temper my expectations.
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Old 16th November 2022, 09:34 AM   #188
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Listen.

As best as I can put into words I'm scared that we're talking ourselves into accepting a "punishment" for Trump that is exactly functionally the same as "We just got tired of dealing with (or hell even thinking about him) so we let him just... go away."

If that's all that happens to Trump, the next Trump will have zero qualms about trying it again. And he could be very, very much worse.
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Old 16th November 2022, 09:41 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Listen.

As best as I can put into words I'm scared that we're talking ourselves into accepting a "punishment" for Trump that is exactly functionally the same as "We just got tired of dealing with (or hell even thinking about him) so we let him just... go away."

If that's all that happens to Trump, the next Trump will have zero qualms about trying it again. And he could be very, very much worse.
I get what you're saying and I agree. I want to see him frog-marched to prison in shackles. I just try to balance that against my short-term mental wellbeing.

On a larger scale, I do believe that enough negative consequences are coming Trump's way to serve as cautionary tale for anyone who tries to emulate him. I guess time will tell.
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Old 16th November 2022, 09:45 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
That's why we keep our eyes on the ball and our foot on the gas pedal, if you'll pardon the mixed metaphor.
Makes perfect sense, it just needs a little context...

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Old 16th November 2022, 09:52 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
IMO the grand announcement will be an incoherent stream of consciousness rant against foes real and imagined and political commentators will divine from it whatever message they choose.
Ding ding ding ding ding! We have a winner!!!
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Old 16th November 2022, 09:53 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Quote:
Yeah. This 'repudiation' of the GQP/Trumpisk was a squeaker. And the electorate has the kind of short memory that results in bafflingly pendular, whip-saw swings.
Only if you ignore he lost in 2020.
He lost by a lot (millions of votes) in the popular vote. But in a couple of battle-ground states, the margins were fairly slim. (Biden won Arizona, Wisconsin, and Georgia by less than 1%.)

A little more voter suppression in a few key states, a few more voters deciding to sit out the election for whatever reason, and you could be looking at another Trump victory.
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Old 16th November 2022, 09:57 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Hope and optimism doesn't require letting your guard down.

And let's honest. All the traitors and coup... ers (whatever, you know what I mean) and election deniers failed, but they were never punished.

They have no reason not to try again.

And like all things even if they can't win, I'm tired of being expected to just passively watch them find out where the limits are.
For the highlighted I use putschists. Has a nice ring to it.
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Old 16th November 2022, 10:01 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Apparently FOX news cut away from Trumps announcement after he said he was running and was getting boring.
Apparently CNN cut away too. And MSNBC didn't even bother showing the announcement live.

I think its a good thing. I believe one of the reasons why Trump had the success he did in 2016 is that news organizations were giving him far too much attention than he deserved. (I remember one news organization showed an empty stage for several minutes just waiting for Trump to show up before a speech.) They weren't necessarily doing that to support him (well except for Fox news), they just wanted the ratings.

Seeing Trump lose the publicity that he had from constant news coverage will hopefully limit the impact he can have.
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Old 16th November 2022, 10:44 AM   #195
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People were physically prevented from living the event midspeech.

Staff Blocks People From Leaving 'Low Energy' Trump Speech

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump...GJgbLKvZm2HZdA
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Old 16th November 2022, 10:55 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
People were physically prevented from living the event midspeech.

Staff Blocks People From Leaving 'Low Energy' Trump Speech

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump...GJgbLKvZm2HZdA
They were protecting them from the liberal snipers hiding in the bushes outside the event until trump went outside and personally ďtook care of themĒ
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Old 16th November 2022, 11:46 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Election deniers running for Secretary of State in key swing swing states all lost their elections. Every single one of them. They will have no more control over a federal election than they did in 2020.

Not to mention that this plan didnít work out too well for them this year.
Keep in mind there are State legislatures who are trying to pass State Laws that to give themselves the right to overturn the results of elections.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-power/670992/

Late last month, in one of its final acts of the term, the Supreme Court queued up another potentially precedent-wrecking decision for next year. The Courtís agreement to hear Moore v. Harper, a North Carolina redistricting case, isnít just bad news for efforts to control gerrymandering. The Courtís right-wing supermajority is poised to let state lawmakers overturn votersí choice in presidential elections.

Six swing statesóPennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona, Georgia, and North Carolinaóare trending blue in presidential elections but ruled by gerrymandered Republican state legislatures.

Joe Biden won five of those six swing states in 2020. Donald Trump then tried and failed, lawlessly, to muscle the GOP state legislators into discarding Bidenís victory and appointing Trump electors instead.


Moore v Harper is a very, very dangerous case. If the SCOTUS rules in favour of the NC State legislature, they will be able to simply overturn, without cause, any presidential election result in their state if they lose.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-wo...rper-explained
"The immediate issue in Moore [v Harper] is whether the state legislatorsí extreme partisan gerrymander will stand in North Carolina. But adopting the independent state legislature theory would also mean that voters across the country have no judicial remedy ó in state court or in federal court ó to fight partisan gerrymandering.

The potential consequences could stretch still further. The theory would throw elections into chaos, nullifying hundreds of election rules put in place through ballot initiatives, state constitutions, and administrative regulations ó including foundational state policies like the processes for voter registration and mail voting and basic guarantees like the secret ballot. State lawmakers would be able to adopt vote suppression legislation without any checks or balances from state courts or even gubernatorial veto. In other words, the theory would upend key aspects of our elections."
And if you don't think SCOTUS would allow this, think again. When they denied emergency relief to the NC gerrymanderers in March this year, Alito, Thomas and Gorsuch dissented as they did in 2020. Kavanaugh said he saw serious arguments on both sides but voted to leave the court-approved map in place for the 2022 elections.

That's three, possibly four votes for and three against (the liberal judges won't vote for it), so there is only Barrett and Roberts. It will only take one of them, and Kavanagh coming down on the conservative side, for the gerrymanders to win.

US democracy is hanging by a thread, and two SCOTUS judges are holding the scissors!

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Hope and optimism doesn't require letting your guard down.

And let's honest. All the traitors and coup... ers (whatever, you know what I mean) and election deniers failed, but they were never punished.

They have no reason not to try again.

And like all things even if they can't win, I'm tired of being expected to just passively watch them find out where the limits are.
Terrorists is the word you were looking for.
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Old 16th November 2022, 11:51 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Keep in mind there are State legislatures who are trying to pass State Laws that to give themselves the right to overturn the results of elections.
And the scary part is they don't have to go through that trouble.

They can already do that. The States can run their elections however they want and there is NOTHING in the Constitution that requires Electoral Voters to even care what the people think.

"We might need to just ignore the popular vote and vote for who we want because the unwashed peasant masses can't always be trusted" isn't like a subversion of the Electoral College or some technicality fluke of it, it's the literally letter and spirit of it. It's why it exists.

And that's ******* scary.
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Old 16th November 2022, 11:58 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
And the scary part is they don't have to go through that trouble.

They can already do that. The States can run their elections however they want and there is NOTHING in the Constitution that requires Electoral Voters to even care what the people think.

"We might need to just ignore the popular vote and vote for who we want because the unwashed peasant masses can't always be trusted" isn't like a subversion of the Electoral College or some technicality fluke of it, it's the literally letter and spirit of it. It's why it exists.

And that's ******* scary.
Well at the moment, they are still subject to judicial oversight (as happened in 2020 and this year) but if Moore v Harper goes the wrong way, they will be able to do whatever they like without any of the checks and balances available through Judicial oversight. In effect, those State's own Supreme Courts will not be able to over-rule their legislatures. The Judicial branch of those states will be legally shut out of the process.
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Old 16th November 2022, 11:58 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Come on, man, we've been over this. I was working on a jobsite and getting poor coverage, and I underestimated the threat. When I got up to speed, I copped to being wrong and was quick to call it an insurrection and that he should be promtly arrested for inciting imminent lawless action.



I think that if you can still support Trump after his profoundly un-American behavior, that is waaaaaaaay worse than it was before. If they can accept J6 and Ratzenberger, they can accept swastikas. There's no more fig leaves. Its not a potential problem anymore. It passed critical mass.
Seconded. Every trump supporter is a literal violent enemy of the foundation of the United States.
Violence, while I donít condone or encourage it, is absolutely morally and ethically warranted against elected republicans and their supporters.
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