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Old 20th November 2022, 04:26 AM   #41
GrandMasterFox
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Has, or can, anyone verify that the vote was what Musk says it was? Not that he'd lie in order to do exactly what he already said he was going to do.
I think it's safe to say there was a poll and that it had votes in it. Anything otherwise would be too easy to debunk.

Now whether or not those votes were real people or bot \ people who were paid to create fake accounts and vote in it is another story entirely.

Not sure how you would even verify that unless you go over all accounts one by one and check them out.



On the other hand, if those were the numbers in the above image then 7,814,267 people voted for him. It doesn't seem outlandish that Trump has that many people that would vote for him to come back. Whether they support him or are just in general "nobody should be banned" people or just "come on, let's make fun of him" people.
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Old 20th November 2022, 04:27 AM   #42
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I don't care, but basing your policy decisions on internet polls sets a wonderful precedent.

I'm guessing this is a one-off though, which just makes me wonder why Trump gets to be so special.
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Old 20th November 2022, 04:29 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Olmstead View Post
I don't care, but basing your policy decisions on internet polls sets a wonderful precedent.

I'm guessing this is a one-off though, which just makes me wonder why Trump gets to be so special.
I do wonder if it would open them to further legal challenges for accounts being suspended?
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Old 20th November 2022, 04:29 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by GrandMasterFox View Post
I think it's safe to say there was a poll and that it had votes in it. Anything otherwise would be too easy to debunk.

Now whether or not those votes were real people or bot \ people who were paid to create fake accounts and vote in it is another story entirely.

Not sure how you would even verify that unless you go over all accounts one by one and check them out.



On the other hand, if those were the numbers in the above image then 7,814,267 people voted for him. It doesn't seem outlandish that Trump has that many people that would vote for him to come back. Whether they support him or are just in general "nobody should be banned" people or just "come on, let's make fun of him" people.
Musk was sorting out all those bots, so there is no way bots could have been usedÖ..
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Old 20th November 2022, 05:04 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Olmstead View Post
I don't care, but basing your policy decisions on internet polls sets a wonderful precedent.

I'm guessing this is a one-off though, which just makes me wonder why Trump gets to be so special.
It means Musk has gone full own the libs. Which is a wonderful strategy when you're dependent on them to make your main company viable.

But then again, who am I to question galaxy brain Elon?
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Old 20th November 2022, 05:57 AM   #46
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Pretty sure that it worked out for the best for Musk.

He said he would reinstate Trump, and he did. He can point to the poll to show that people had their chance to vote (of course the procedures are garbage, but he can still say he gave Twitter users more chance than they had had before to have their say), then if Trump refuses to post, it will be one less headache for him if Trump just decides to violate all ToS's.

That said, pretty sure Trump will eventually be back on Twitter with some excuse. Maybe to make fun of people who don't use Truth Social, which is pretty much everyone.
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Old 20th November 2022, 06:23 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Wanna bet?

So the voting was open about a day. Yep...that's going to be some kind of reliable poll.
Musk wants Trump back on Twitter because he thinks it will revive the sinking ship.
Now, it's an established legend that rats leave a sinking ship, but nobody ever claimed you could keep the ship afloat by putting them back onboard.

Hans
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Old 20th November 2022, 06:28 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle View Post
It means Musk has gone full own the libs. Which is a wonderful strategy when you're dependent on them to make your main company viable.
And I don't think there's a whole lot of Teslas in the parking lots of Trump rallies, either.
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Old 20th November 2022, 07:26 AM   #49
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Somebody is very happy.



It might do well to remember why trump was removed from Twitter to begin with. It was in the immediate wake of the January 6th invasion of Congress by his supporters. It was in line with policies various social media platforms had essentially had forced upon them. That unscrupulous people had used social media to foment violence again people they considered 'enemies.' That the costs from this had been devastatingly real and the platforms needed to take steps to prevent this kind of thing from happening. Not wait until people were dead and then suspend the accounts of those who had instigated it.

In 2020 the Kuwait Times reported:
Quote:
Facebook and other social platforms, which are also often used to organize peaceful events and pro-democracy movements, have been condemned for failing to stop a range of abusive and hateful content including organized violence such as the massacre of the Rohingya minority in Myanmar and the beheading of French schoolteacher Samuel Paty near Paris. Kuwait Times link
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Old 20th November 2022, 07:59 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle View Post
It means Musk has gone full own the libs. Which is a wonderful strategy when you're dependent on them to make your main company viable.

But then again, who am I to question galaxy brain Elon?
One thing for sure I will never be back on Twitter ever again.
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Old 20th November 2022, 08:09 AM   #51
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When Trumpists complain about how old twitter restricted speech it lays bare how they aren’t really conservatives. They don’t believe in capitalism or commercialism, they want authoritarianism.

The free market rejected them and their ideas. Now they need a sponsor to come to the rescue.

Musk won’t be their savior. Even he isn’t rich enough to prop up their failing ideas. Trumpist social media will be just as profitable as Trumpist comedians are funny.
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Old 20th November 2022, 08:28 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I can't see Trump returning to Twitter because that'd be like admitting his platform isn't cutting it for him, and we know he'll never acknowledge making any kind of mistake.
Plus the fact that Kathy Griffin was reinstated before he was.
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Old 20th November 2022, 09:04 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I can't see Trump returning to Twitter because that'd be like admitting his platform isn't cutting it for him, and we know he'll never acknowledge making any kind of mistake.
That might be part of Musk's rationale. Twitter is one of the worst acquisitions in history. He needs more eyeballs on ads. Killing Truth Social might bring those eyes back to Twitter. I don't think it will work but it looks like Musk is grasping at straws.

Musk's real problem is all those employees leaving know what right looks like. They could possibly go in on a new platform or an existing company could swoop them up.
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Old 20th November 2022, 09:11 AM   #54
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If there weren't pretty abundant evidence that Musk is what he is, and his idea of free speech as muddled as it is, a recreational conspiracy theorist could put together a pretty good argument that this is all a plot by Musk to induce Trump to abandon other social media and then, through the inevitable crash of Twitter, to expose him to ridicule and ultimately deplatform him without seeming to.

How's that for a conspiracy theory: it turns out Musk is not the egotistical, right wing jerk we thought, but a liberal sleeper agent!

(note, for those who think the latter is serious, sure it is, and there are also fairies at the bottom of our garden, scantily clad in emerald garlands of questionable provenance.)
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Old 20th November 2022, 09:25 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
When Trumpists complain about how old twitter restricted speech it lays bare how they arenít really conservatives. They donít believe in capitalism or commercialism, they want authoritarianism.

The free market rejected them and their ideas. Now they need a sponsor to come to the rescue.

Musk wonít be their savior. Even he isnít rich enough to prop up their failing ideas. Trumpist social media will be just as profitable as Trumpist comedians are funny.
Well look at the "conservatives" and "free speech advocates" here and their double-standard over the Missouri book ban law and the "no denigration" gags for former Twits.
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Old 20th November 2022, 10:10 AM   #56
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Seems like Trump CAN'T leave Truth Social, as he is contractually obligated to post whatever he wants to post there first, and not for another 6 hours afterwards on any other platform.
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Old 20th November 2022, 10:15 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Seems like Trump CAN'T leave Truth Social, as he is contractually obligated to post whatever he wants to post there first, and not for another 6 hours afterwards on any other platform.
Since when has Trump abided by contracts?
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Old 20th November 2022, 10:24 AM   #58
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Maybe he will be happy becoming President of Twitter and leave the rest of us alone.
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Old 20th November 2022, 10:41 AM   #59
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Well,

Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
A victory for free speech, however despised the speaker.
not free, but certainly cheap.
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Old 20th November 2022, 10:45 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by grunion View Post
Maybe he will be happy becoming President of Twitter and leave the rest of us alone.
Too late. He's been busy launching space junk for a while now.
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Old 20th November 2022, 10:54 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
A victory for free speech, however despised the speaker.
Why canít any American rightists figure out what ďfree speechĒ means?

I mean, itís adorable, like a baby thinking you canít see them if they canít see you.

This at least is the right inadvertently acknowledging the existence of market capitalism. So theyíve progressed to toddler level thinking.

(Just joking, they will absolutely be against both free speech and capitalism as soon as a democrat very slightly disagrees with any one of them.)
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Old 20th November 2022, 10:58 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Well, we will see, won't we?

Look, nobody gives a rat's ass about Twitter's financials on this matter. A lot of people just are up-in-arms because they can't silence Trump. They fear him having a voice.

That's the real truth of the matter.
Okay, never mind what I said about any rightists understanding market capitalism
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Old 20th November 2022, 11:27 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Well, we will see, won't we?
We're already seeing. That advertisers don't want to be associated with toxic content isn't speculation about a future scenario, it's an observation of what is currently happening.

Quote:
Look, nobody gives a rat's ass about Twitter's financials on this matter.
The people who invested billions of dollars in Twitter would disagree.

Quote:
A lot of people just are up-in-arms because they can't silence Trump. They fear him having a voice.
Whether or not Trump is on Twitter has never had anything to do with "silencing" him nor does it affect his right to free speech in the slightest.

And nobody wants to "silence" Trump. They just don't want him inciting violence. I know conservatives are cool with that, but normal people aren't.

Aside from that, allowing Trump to continue to spout his nonsense is nothing but good for people who enjoying watching the Republican party destroy itself. The more dumb **** he says and does the better.

Quote:
That's the real truth of the matter.
No, it's a canard that conservatives use in place of the truth.

Twitter access has nothing to do with free speech or censorship. It is and always was a privately-owned business that can set its own rules and enforce them anyway they choose.
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Old 20th November 2022, 12:10 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
It is and always was a privately-owned business that can set its own rules and enforce them anyway they choose.

Nobody said differently. And now they are enforcing them in a way that seems to allow for greater freedom of speech. So what's not to like?

If Twitter fails, it costs Musk. It isn't like it is coming out of your pocket, right?
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Old 20th November 2022, 12:16 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
One thing for sure I will never be back on Twitter ever again.
I'll stay on until it collapses a) to very occasionally snipe from the sidelines and b) to be able to see the interesting stuff that is occasionally put up there.

Given that I run full ad blockers on both my computer and phone, Elon's not getting any money off me.
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Old 20th November 2022, 12:20 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
When Trumpists complain about how old twitter restricted speech it lays bare how they arenít really conservatives. They donít believe in capitalism or commercialism, they want authoritarianism.

The free market rejected them and their ideas. Now they need a sponsor to come to the rescue.

Musk wonít be their savior. Even he isnít rich enough to prop up their failing ideas. Trumpist social media will be just as profitable as Trumpist comedians are funny.
Conservatism is, ultimately, an authoritarian political ideology. The goal of conservatism is to return society to a state where the class strata are rigid, unchanging and where power is concentrated at the top alone.

If you want a political philosophy that encourages capitalism (why? The mixed public/private system of social democracy works way better) look to the classical liberalism of the Whigs on the green.
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Old 20th November 2022, 12:31 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
We're already seeing. That advertisers don't want to be associated with toxic content isn't speculation about a future scenario, it's an observation of what is currently happening.



The people who invested billions of dollars in Twitter would disagree.



Whether or not Trump is on Twitter has never had anything to do with "silencing" him nor does it affect his right to free speech in the slightest.

And nobody wants to "silence" Trump. They just don't want him inciting violence. I know conservatives are cool with that, but normal people aren't.

Aside from that, allowing Trump to continue to spout his nonsense is nothing but good for people who enjoying watching the Republican party destroy itself. The more dumb **** he says and does the better.



No, it's a canard that conservatives use in place of the truth.

Twitter access has nothing to do with free speech or censorship. It is and always was a privately-owned business that can set its own rules and enforce them anyway they choose.
It is relevant to your point above that Warnock is running an ad that is just Trumps endorsement of Walker. Canít get the stink of Trump off. So much losing.
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Old 20th November 2022, 12:32 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle View Post
Conservatism is, ultimately, an authoritarian political ideology. The goal of conservatism is to return society to a state where the class strata are rigid, unchanging and where power is concentrated at the top alone.

If you want a political philosophy that encourages capitalism (why? The mixed public/private system of social democracy works way better) look to the classical liberalism of the Whigs on the green.
Agreed.
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Old 20th November 2022, 12:37 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Nobody said differently. And now they are enforcing them in a way that seems to allow for greater freedom of speech. So what's not to like?

If Twitter fails, it costs Musk. It isn't like it is coming out of your pocket, right?
What seems to you to be greater freedom of speech may seem to others to be an erosion of the only possible funding such a service could reliably use to stay afloat.

If one likes twitter, then seeing twitter fail due to lack of moderation is not a positive thing.
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Old 20th November 2022, 12:37 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Nobody said differently. And now they are enforcing them in a way that seems to allow for greater freedom of speech. So what's not to like?

If Twitter fails, it costs Musk. It isn't like it is coming out of your pocket, right?
Nope it is still not free speech.

Plus of course - can you point to the polls where folk can vote to allow back all the other folk who have been suspended for breaching the TOS? I mean there wasn't somehow a policy just made for Trump was there?
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Old 20th November 2022, 12:46 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Nope it is still not free speech.

I didn't say it was pure free speech, did I? Sometimes I marvel at how things are interpreted around here. Like, I make it clear that I understand Twitter can choose what they censor. Then I am basically saying that they seem to be embracing a model with less censorship. Which is more freedom of speech.

And the response?

"Nope it is still not free speech".

I just don't get how that response addresses anything I am saying.
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Old 20th November 2022, 01:02 PM   #72
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Musk has no relevance in the greater things. Twitter was somewhat useful for data. Even various events not politics. So it was somewhat useful. Sad to see it go this way.

Trump has a little relevance still.
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Old 20th November 2022, 01:06 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Nobody said differently. And now they are enforcing them in a way that seems to allow for greater freedom of speech. So what's not to like?

If Twitter fails, it costs Musk. It isn't like it is coming out of your pocket, right?
Musk borrowed money to buy Twitter. If he followed the usual leveraged buyout tactic, Twitter is now responsible for paying these loans. The collapse of Twitter will result in a default on these loans. If the multi billion dollar default causes one or more banks to fold the Federal government will prop up the banks. It may indeed come out of the pockets of anyone that pays taxes.
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Old 20th November 2022, 01:08 PM   #74
Warp12
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Musk borrowed money to buy Twitter. If he followed the usual leveraged buyout tactic, Twitter is now responsible for paying these loans. The collapse of Twitter will result in a default on these loans. If the multi billion dollar default causes one or more banks to fold the Federal government will prop up the banks. It may indeed come out of the pockets of anyone that pays taxes.

Do you think that is what everyone is worried about, lol? Their taxes going up if Twitter fails? Talk about a stretch.
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Old 20th November 2022, 01:12 PM   #75
arayder
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Warp,

Now tell me if I am reading the Warp Debate Method playbook correctly. When we get caught misstating the facts we are supposed to say something like:

"That's not really what I said. I marvel at the way everybody here twists things around."

We are NEVER supposed to say, "Oh, yeah. You are right. My mistake."

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Old 20th November 2022, 01:30 PM   #76
arayder
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Musk borrowed money to buy Twitter. If he followed the usual leveraged buyout tactic, Twitter is now responsible for paying these loans. The collapse of Twitter will result in a default on these loans. If the multi billion dollar default causes one or more banks to fold the Federal government will prop up the banks. It may indeed come out of the pockets of anyone that pays taxes.
Yeah, when you woe the bank $100,000 and you can't pay, you are in trouble.

When you owe the bank 10 billion dollars and you can't pay, the bank's in trouble.
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Old 20th November 2022, 01:38 PM   #77
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Musk borrowed money to buy Twitter. If he followed the usual leveraged buyout tactic, Twitter is now responsible for paying these loans. The collapse of Twitter will result in a default on these loans. If the multi billion dollar default causes one or more banks to fold the Federal government will prop up the banks. It may indeed come out of the pockets of anyone that pays taxes.
Why on earth would the federal government bail out any bank stupid enough to bet its existence on Musk turning Twitter around?

Such a government probably deserves to be violently overthrown by an angry mob, at the earliest opportunity.
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Old 20th November 2022, 01:56 PM   #78
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Seems like Trump CAN'T leave Truth Social, as he is contractually obligated to post whatever he wants to post there first, and not for another 6 hours afterwards on any other platform.
Trump's restart on Twitter is nothing whatever to do with Trothe Sential's contract, or "free speech", or Elon Musk's buy-out, etc.

Trump won't come back to Twitter for a purely selfish reason: He's an utter, through-and-through narcissist and thin-skinned sniveling coward.

Now that Twitter has effectively zero moderation after Musk sacked/ejected half the critical staff, and parody and other types of copy-cat accounts have sprung up like weeds after rain, Trump knows he would be subject to constant, direct and punishing public ridicule and humiliation. Most seasoned politicians have rhino hides and can deal with that any day of the week. Trump's hide is paper thin and ultra-sensitive to even the slightest criticism. It would be ridiculously easy for thousands of Twitter denizens to hurt his widdle feewings and send him up rotten. And he cannot abide the very thought of that happening, let alone have it happen.

Meanwhile, on Trothe Sential, it's his private Twitter and nobody, but nobody, is permitted to humiliate him there.

He won't be back in any meaningful form.

ETA: Musk's "poll" was a bunch of numbers and coloured rectangles pasted on a post to look like some sort of "official" poll. It was rubbish. Like anyone believes it was a REAL poll. Not even hilarious.
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Old 20th November 2022, 02:55 PM   #79
dudalb
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I don't think it really makes much difference politically..and this should come as no surprise to anybody......but it will not help Musk very much and might well cost him waht few non reight wing fanbous he has left.
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Old 20th November 2022, 03:11 PM   #80
Venom
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I agree Trump won't return.

Trump: ĎI am staying on Truthí

Quote:
Former President Trump is sticking to his assertion that he wonít be back on Twitter now that itís owned by Tesla and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk.

ďI am staying on Truth. I like it better, I like the way it works. I like Elon, but Iím staying on Truth,Ē Trump told Fox News Digital on Friday in an exclusive interview.
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