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Old 23rd November 2022, 02:58 PM   #1
Hercules56
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Highly successful SF election manager fired for being white

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/san...al-equity-plan

Everyone admits that this guy was an incredible success. Great at his job and much better than his predecessors

They decided to let him go because his existence did not comply with their racial equality agenda.

This is terrible. Highly qualified individuals with an exceptional track record of bringing good things to the people should not lose their jobs because they are the wrong skin color.

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Old 23rd November 2022, 03:05 PM   #2
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Have you a source from a reputable publisher? I don't trust the US version of Der Volkisher Beobachter.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 03:07 PM   #3
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Sounds a little different when you don't read it from Fox News:

Quote:
The commission voted 4-2 last week to begin searching for a possible replacement for Director John Arntz, approving a search committee to consider a pool of candidates, according to The San Francisco Chronicle. Arntz will be considered if he wishes to apply, The Chronicle noted. Link
It kind of sounds like they're going to interview candidates to see if there aren't other people out there that might do a good job as well. This guy has been doing it for going on 25 years, and he's done a great job. They aren't even saying he won't be hired again.

Who the **** reads Fox News and doesn't at least look at other sources? Congrats, your transition to full fledged Republican mouth piece is complete.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 03:16 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/san...al-equity-plan

Everyone admits that this guy was an incredible success. Great at his job and much better than his predecessors

They decided to let him go because his existence did not comply with their racial equality agenda.

This is terrible. Highly qualified individuals with an exceptional track record of bringing good things to the people should not lose their jobs because they are the wrong skin color.

I think the Committee's intention is good but, in this case, I think it's misguided as Arntz has done an excellent job for 20 years by all accounts.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 03:24 PM   #5
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Unfortunate
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Old 23rd November 2022, 03:26 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I think the Committee's intention is good but, in this case, I think it's misguided as Arntz has done an excellent job for 20 years by all accounts.
There's absolutely nothing saying he can't continue to do a great job for the next 20 years.

I'm actually shocked they don't interview for contracts every time it's up for renewal. Is that common?
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Old 23rd November 2022, 03:31 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
There's absolutely nothing saying he can't continue to do a great job for the next 20 years.

I'm actually shocked they don't interview for contracts every time it's up for renewal. Is that common?
I think it just depends on the policy of each company or committee. My teaching contract wasn't opened up for other candidates to apply every year. As long as I was doing a good job, it was just renewed.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 03:54 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I think it just depends on the policy of each company or committee. My teaching contract wasn't opened up for other candidates to apply every year. As long as I was doing a good job, it was just renewed.
Were there other contracts for the same position open? As in, were there more teaching positions open where they wouldn't need you to? It sounds like this is a highly sought after position, and the only one of its kind.

My point is the Fox News spin was bull ****. He isn't being let go because "he's white". He's free to apply, as is everyone else. Other white people will be interviewed, I assume.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 04:02 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post

I'm actually shocked they don't interview for contracts every time it's up for renewal. Is that common?
In my experience (different country of course) contracts are usually renewed provided the person concerned meets agreed benchmarks. Companies here tend to not go through the expensive, time-consuming and often disruptive process of advertising and a selection process.

So if this is an exercise of advertising to see if someone else (perhaps a non-white) is out there when the incumbent is doing a good job, it seems unfortunate.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 04:05 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Sounds a little different when you don't read it from Fox News:



It kind of sounds like they're going to interview candidates to see if there aren't other people out there that might do a good job as well. This guy has been doing it for going on 25 years, and he's done a great job. They aren't even saying he won't be hired again.

Who the **** reads Fox News and doesn't at least look at other sources? Congrats, your transition to full fledged Republican mouth piece is complete.
Did you the reason for searching for someone new? To comply with their racial equality agenda.

Not to fine someone better or younger or more skilled.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 04:06 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
In my experience (different country of course) contracts are usually renewed provided the person concerned meets agreed benchmarks. Companies here tend to not go through the expensive, time-consuming and often disruptive process of advertising and a selection process.

So if this is an exercise of advertising to see if someone else (perhaps a non-white) is out there when the incumbent is doing a good job, it seems unfortunate.
Exactly, its like telling the current Fire Commissioner "you're not fired, we're just gonna look for someone new. You're welcome to apply. Again".
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Old 23rd November 2022, 04:10 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Were there other contracts for the same position open? As in, were there more teaching positions open where they wouldn't need you to? It sounds like this is a highly sought after position, and the only one of its kind.

My point is the Fox News spin was bull ****. He isn't being let go because "he's white". He's free to apply, as is everyone else. Other white people will be interviewed, I assume.
So you didn't read the reason as to why his contract was not simply renewed.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 04:10 PM   #13
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Our decision wasn’t about your performance, but after twenty years we wanted to take action on the City’s racial equity plan and give people an opportunity to compete for a leadership position," the Commission’s president Chris Jerdonek wrote in an email to Arntz, according to various local news outlets.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 04:12 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/san...al-equity-plan

Everyone admits that this guy was an incredible success. Great at his job and much better than his predecessors

They decided to let him go because his existence did not comply with their racial equality agenda.

This is terrible. Highly qualified individuals with an exceptional track record of bringing good things to the people should not lose their jobs because they are the wrong skin color.

Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Sounds a little different when you don't read it from Fox News:



It kind of sounds like they're going to interview candidates to see if there aren't other people out there that might do a good job as well. This guy has been doing it for going on 25 years, and he's done a great job. They aren't even saying he won't be hired again.

Who the **** reads Fox News and doesn't at least look at other sources? Congrats, your transition to full fledged Republican mouth piece is complete.

- The part about being let go "because he's white"? -- a complete and utter lie, and by repeating it in the title of this thread, you are carrying water for Faux News, and helping to enable their racist agenda.

- The part about Arntz being up for consideration if he wishes to apply? -- left out because the above lie would not work if it was left in.


Let that be a lesson to you Hercules56... never, ever take anything you see, read or hear from Faux News at face value. They will twist, make stuff up, deliberately leave out information and lie in order to spin stories to comply with their right wing extremist politics. Consider everything thing you see there as if the source was something like "Stormfront" or "The Daily Stormer"
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Old 23rd November 2022, 04:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Commission officials sought to assure Arntz that the decision to remove him from the top job was not a review of his tenure, but a decision that came down to the issue of racial equality.

"Our decision wasn’t about your performance, but after twenty years we wanted to take action on the City’s racial equity plan and give people an opportunity to compete for a leadership position," the Commission’s president Chris Jerdonek wrote in an email to Arntz, according to various local news outlets.

Yeah, his job is on the line because he is white. To pretend otherwise is completely disingenuous. Imagine if the scenario were reversed.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 04:32 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Were there other contracts for the same position open? As in, were there more teaching positions open where they wouldn't need you to? It sounds like this is a highly sought after position, and the only one of its kind.

My point is the Fox News spin was bull ****. He isn't being let go because "he's white". He's free to apply, as is everyone else. Other white people will be interviewed, I assume.
The FOX article is accurate and so is the OP. Compare it to this from ABC:

https://abcnews4.com/news/nation-wor...oar-john-arntz

His contract is not being renewed because they want to "take action on the City’s racial equity plan and give people an opportunity to compete for a leadership position”

This tells me that if he were not white they would not be doing this. Therefore, his contract is not being renewed specifically because he is white. Seems pretty clear to me.

For those who feel the OP was incorrect in stating they are "letting him go", consider the following...

"Oh feel free to reapply, but we're looking for diversity, wink wink" I mean dude is white, he ain't diverse, end of story. He will be replaced.

Sounds kinda crappy. I'd be pissed as hell if it were my job.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 04:41 PM   #17
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I'm wondering if there might be grounds for a racial discrimination lawsuit. As crazy as that sounds.

I mean, they have pretty much told him directly that they are putting his job on the market not because of his performance, but because of his skin color. What do they say when they don't rehire him?

Seems shady AF.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 04:42 PM   #18
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If he was not white his contract would have been automatically renewed
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Old 23rd November 2022, 05:50 PM   #19
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If this guy was a union government employee this garbage would not stand. Forcing someone to reapply for a job they've had for decades is crazy.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 05:52 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Were there other contracts for the same position open? As in, were there more teaching positions open where they wouldn't need you to? It sounds like this is a highly sought after position, and the only one of its kind.

My point is the Fox News spin was bull ****. He isn't being let go because "he's white". He's free to apply, as is everyone else. Other white people will be interviewed, I assume.
I never heard of a teacher who had good reviews not having a contract renewed so the district could open the position for 'racial equity'.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 05:59 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Yeah, his job is on the line because he is white. To pretend otherwise is completely disingenuous. Imagine if the scenario were reversed.
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
If he was not white his contract would have been automatically renewed
As much as it pains me to agree with Warp about anything, in this case I have to agree with both him and Hercules56. The Committee's own statements make the motivation clear. I wouldn't be surprised to hear this decision is reversed or that a lawsuit is filed.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 06:01 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
As much as it pains me to agree with Warp about anything, in this case I have to agree with both him and Hercules56. The Committee's own statements make the motivation clear. I wouldn't be surprised to hear this decision is reversed or that a lawsuit is filed.
Looks like clear grounds for a Civil Rights Act lawsuit
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Old 23rd November 2022, 06:12 PM   #23
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I cannot find a reason that Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 would not apply. Unless he's on a 1099 versus W-2

ETA if his boss whose making this decision is also white, why doesn't he or she resign and suggest a person of another race take their position?

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Old 23rd November 2022, 06:21 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
As much as it pains me to agree with Warp about anything, in this case I have to agree with both him and Hercules56.
Yes. A very uncomfortable feeling for me as well.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 06:50 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Yes. A very uncomfortable feeling for me as well.
Just remember that a broken clock is right twice a day.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 07:06 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
As much as it pains me to agree with Warp about anything, in this case I have to agree with both him and Hercules56. The Committee's own statements make the motivation clear. I wouldn't be surprised to hear this decision is reversed or that a lawsuit is filed.
That's the part that bothers me as well. You can't admit that you're doing it purely for racial reasons and then say that you're not being discriminatory because he can still apply. Disingenuous semantics at it's best.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 07:07 PM   #27
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Thirded. It can be hard with all the times things like this have been claimed without merit, but the information we have on this case does appear to be some grade-A stupid with grade-C good intentions.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 08:56 PM   #28
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There might be more to this story about the job? Isn't it kind of weird to have the exact same position for 20 years, have great reviews, and just have done the same job for 20 years? No aspirations to do something similar for LA or the state or federal level? No desire to demonstrate that you trained your successor?

From a private sector management perspective, there could totally be reasons you want to open the position to have potential directors develop into good directors to then move on to more senior positions, despite the current director doing an excellent, but stagnant job.

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Old 23rd November 2022, 09:10 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
There might be more to this story about the job? Isn't it kind of weird to have the exact same position for 20 years, have great reviews, and just have done the same job for 20 years? No aspirations to do something similar for LA or the state or federal level? No desire to demonstrate that you trained your successor?

From a private sector management perspective, there could totally be reasons you want to open the position to have potential directors develop into good directors to then move on to more senior positions, despite the current director doing an excellent, but stagnant job.

They directly stated that it had nothing to do with his job performance and that they were potentially replacing him because of their racial equity policy. I mean, just typing that is ludicrous...but, true.

I don't know how it could be much clearer. There is nothing to interpret.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 09:10 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle View Post
Have you a source from a reputable publisher? I don't trust the US version of Der Volkisher Beobachter.
That is a totally incorrect comparison! Fox News is much closer in style to Der Stürmer!
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Old 23rd November 2022, 09:12 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
They directly stated that it had nothing to do with his job performance and that they were potentially replacing him because of their racial equity policy. I mean, just typing is ludicrous...but, true.

I don't know how it could be much clearer. There is nothing to interpret.
...As I said, doing the same job well for 20 years means you did a good job....but they can find issue with the fact you haven't had any ambition beyond that position.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 09:31 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
...As I said, doing the same job well for 20 years means you did a good job....but they can find issue with the fact you haven't had any ambition beyond that position.
If that was indeed a major reason for opening the job up to other applicants, it certainly seems valid. But (assuming the reporting is accurate), that's not what they said. We can only go by what they themselves are claiming.

I see no reason not to say so if that was the reason; it makes more sense then the version we're getting.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 09:58 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
If that was indeed a major reason for opening the job up to other applicants, it certainly seems valid. But (assuming the reporting is accurate), that's not what they said. We can only go by what they themselves are claiming.

I see no reason not to say so if that was the reason; it makes more sense then the version we're getting.
If you were going to force open a leadership position up for more diverse candidates, the stagnant one might be the best choice? For most positions, you can do it with normal turnover. In general, you wouldn't have to let someone go to do it because ideally their career would advance this past the position.


Anyway, the overall point is the 20 year position seems really odd and makes me wonder how it is structured and if it is contributing to the conflict.

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Old 23rd November 2022, 10:21 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
If you were going to force open a leadership position up for more diverse candidates, the stagnant one might be the best choice? For most positions, you can do it with normal turnover. In general, you wouldn't have to let someone go to do it because ideally their career would advance this past the position.


Anyway, the overall point is the 20 year position seems really odd and makes me wonder how it is structured and if it is contributing to the conflict.
I understand the purpose of opening up a position to new candidates; my point is that it makes no sense to handle it this way if that was the goal.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 10:34 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Anyway, the overall point is the 20 year position seems really odd and makes me wonder how it is structured and if it is contributing to the conflict.
It sounds to me you have a poor understanding of how organisations work in the real world. One of the main problems in businesses is where people, after years of holding down a position for many years and performed exceptionally, are then promoted to positions they can’t properly handle.

Organisations of good standing have well developed succession plans, know more or less where an employee is best placed in the organisation and leaves that employee be. Your assumption that a person who doesn’t seek continued promotion is lacking ambition is faulty.

In the absence of any other information, Arntz looks like he has been treated badly.
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Old 23rd November 2022, 11:51 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
- The part about being let go "because he's white"? -- a complete and utter lie, and by repeating it in the title of this thread, you are carrying water for Faux News, and helping to enable their racist agenda.

- The part about Arntz being up for consideration if he wishes to apply? -- left out because the above lie would not work if it was left in.


Let that be a lesson to you Hercules56... never, ever take anything you see, read or hear from Faux News at face value. They will twist, make stuff up, deliberately leave out information and lie in order to spin stories to comply with their right wing extremist politics. Consider everything thing you see there as if the source was something like "Stormfront" or "The Daily Stormer"
This post is going to age poorly.
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Old 24th November 2022, 03:02 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Yeah, his job is on the line because he is white. To pretend otherwise is completely disingenuous. Imagine if the scenario were reversed.
...Within two hours, the school board had voted to fire the district’s first Black superintendent...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...dent-rcna57528
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Old 24th November 2022, 03:15 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
...Within two hours, the school board had voted to fire the district’s first Black superintendent...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...dent-rcna57528

Did they announce that they weren't firing him because of his job performance, but because of the color of his skin and in the name of their racial equity policy? Had he been on the job and performing in an outstanding manner for 20 years?

I mean, I get your post, but the situation is not comparable...even if some may consider it quite outrageous. Perhaps that fellow has potential grounds for a lawsuit, as well.

What makes this situation so outrageous is the official announcement that they are putting his job to market because he is white. Like, they said directly that it isn't because of his job-related performance or any such thing...that it is based upon race. They could have found any number of reasons...but they officially announced this one.
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Last edited by Warp12; 24th November 2022 at 03:37 AM.
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Old 24th November 2022, 05:22 AM   #39
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Reading is fundamental, folks.

The Berkeley County school situation is not analogous to the OP.
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Old 24th November 2022, 05:24 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
It sounds to me you have a poor understanding of how organisations work in the real world. One of the main problems in businesses is where people, after years of holding down a position for many years and performed exceptionally, are then promoted to positions they can’t properly handle.

Organisations of good standing have well developed succession plans, know more or less where an employee is best placed in the organisation and leaves that employee be. Your assumption that a person who doesn’t seek continued promotion is lacking ambition is faulty.

In the absence of any other information, Arntz looks like he has been treated badly.
A) all true

B) 20 years is extreme
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