ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Congressional hearings , donald trump , impeachment , Trump administration , Trump controversies

Reply
Old 2nd October 2019, 03:34 PM   #561
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 41,073
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Here are just some of Trump's staff, appointees and associates who have said or suggested Trump is stupd.


Sam Nunberg describes his ignorance. Nunberg, was sent to “explain the Constitution” to Trump when he was a candidate. “I got as far as the Fourth Amendment,” Nunberg recalled, “before his finger is pulling down on his lip and his eyes are rolling back in his head.”

Steve Bannon " like an 11 year old child"
White House deputy chief of staff Katie Walsh "Working with Trump is “like trying to figure out what a child wants”—

Rupert Murdoch "a ******* idiot"
Roger Ailes. 'a moron"
Rex Tillerson Secretary of State "a ******* moron"
Gary Cohen Economic advisor "dumb as ****"
H R McMaster National security advisor "a dope"
John Kelly Chief of staff "an idiot"
Steve Mnuchin Secretary of Treasury "an idiot"
Reince Preibus Chief of staff "an idiot"
Sam Nunberg "he's an idiot"

There are lots more. But as I said before. Read his speeches. They really are stupid. And yet people voted for this moron.

You should also note that Trump has threatened legal action against every school he's attended. If Trump is really "a stable genius" why is he frightened of evidence?

A great listicle there.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 03:45 PM   #562
I Am The Scum
Illuminator
 
I Am The Scum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,080
Belz, theprestige

I don't care if you two resolve your issues in private messages, another thread, or a seedy motel room that charges by the hour. As long this nonsense stops getting dragged into other threads multiple times, I'll be happy. Please just stop.
I Am The Scum is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 03:48 PM   #563
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 19,126
Dr. Keith liked the post:
Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Belz, theprestige

I don't care if you two resolve your issues in private messages, another thread, or a seedy motel room that charges by the hour. As long this nonsense stops getting dragged into other threads multiple times, I'll be happy. Please just stop.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 03:48 PM   #564
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 22,924
Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Belz, theprestige

I don't care if you two resolve your issues in private messages, another thread, or a seedy motel room that charges by the hour. As long this nonsense stops getting dragged into other threads multiple times, I'll be happy. Please just stop.
Thank You.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 04:33 PM   #565
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 38,462
Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Belz, theprestige

I don't care if you two resolve your issues in private messages, another thread, or a seedy motel room that charges by the hour. As long this nonsense stops getting dragged into other threads multiple times, I'll be happy. Please just stop.
Roger that. I'll do my best to respect your wishes.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2019, 03:20 PM   #566
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 25,630
Democrats to subpoena Gordon Sondland, after the State Department blocked his voluntary testimony

Sondland had interacted directly with Trump around the time of the Ukraine phone call, and was the man who told Ron Johnson that the phone call had involved quid pro quo.

This is how Trump responded on twitter: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...60708808486914

Quote:
I would love to send Ambassador Sondland, a really good man and great American, to testify, but unfortunately he would be testifying before a totally compromised kangaroo court, where Republican’s rights have been taken away, and true facts are not allowed out for the public....

....to see. Importantly, Ambassador Sondland’s tweet, which few report, stated, “I believe you are incorrect about President Trump’s intentions. The President has been crystal clear: no quid pro quo’s of any kind.” That says it ALL!
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2019, 03:43 PM   #567
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 21,489
Now that the WH has said get ****** to the impeachment process the US seems in crisis.
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2019, 04:10 PM   #568
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,648
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Democrats to subpoena Gordon Sondland, after the State Department blocked his voluntary testimony

Sondland had interacted directly with Trump around the time of the Ukraine phone call, and was the man who told Ron Johnson that the phone call had involved quid pro quo.

This is how Trump responded on twitter: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...60708808486914
King Donald The First.
I am above the Law.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2019, 04:23 PM   #569
Beelzebuddy
Philosopher
 
Beelzebuddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,013
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Now that the WH has said get ****** to the impeachment process the US seems in crisis.
They've been saying that the entire time. Democrats just haven't wanted to hear it.
Beelzebuddy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2019, 04:25 PM   #570
DkCreative
New Blood
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 3
I wonder if they found any dirt

Does anyone know what kind of dirt they were looking for? Obviously they had to have a hunch of something before risking everything.
DkCreative is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2019, 04:36 PM   #571
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 41,073
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Now that the WH has said get ****** to the impeachment process the US seems in crisis.

But it's not fair.


*stamps feet*
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2019, 04:42 PM   #572
Beelzebuddy
Philosopher
 
Beelzebuddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,013
Originally Posted by DkCreative View Post
Does anyone know what kind of dirt they were looking for? Obviously they had to have a hunch of something before risking everything.
Not at all. You're assuming they give a crap about the truth.

The point of the investigation was to have an investigation. Propagandists could take care of the rest, accusing Biden of everything under the sun and especially the crimes Giuliani was currently in Ukraine committing. It almost worked, too, even with the whistleblower calling attention to it.

As for "before risking everything," I'll put ten bucks down that Trump has asked everyone to do something similar, in every single negotiation.

Last edited by Beelzebuddy; 8th October 2019 at 04:44 PM.
Beelzebuddy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2019, 04:57 PM   #573
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 18,750
Originally Posted by DkCreative View Post
Does anyone know what kind of dirt they were looking for? Obviously they had to have a hunch of something before risking everything.
It goes back to a Alt-Right Wing Conspiracy Theory that Hunter was hired by Burisma for nefarious purposes and was paid extreme amounts of money to hide Burisma's corrupt practices and then Joe Biden had the prosecutor who was "looking into" Burisma's supposed corruption fired so as to protect both his son and the company. There is also claim that the company that Hunter set up with several others, acting as a go-between for Chinese investors wanting to invest in the US, were involved in money laundering and fraud.

There is no actual evidence of either claim, and in fact a lot of evidence that is contradictory to them.
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2019, 05:22 PM   #574
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 76,095
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
King Donald The First.
I am above the Law.
With a gaggle of cheerleader GOP legislators to hoot and holler about the kangaroo court.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2019, 05:23 PM   #575
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 76,095
Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
They've been saying that the entire time. Democrats just haven't wanted to hear it. [aren't about to accept it.]
ftfy
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2019, 05:25 PM   #576
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 76,095
Originally Posted by DkCreative View Post
Does anyone know what kind of dirt they were looking for? Obviously they had to have a hunch of something before risking everything.
The whole matter is out in the open and other than Biden being too close to the oil industry, there's nothing there.

That doesn't stop Trump or the GOP from shouting accusations from the roof tops which then stick in many people's heads.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2019, 08:04 PM   #577
Beelzebuddy
Philosopher
 
Beelzebuddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,013
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
ftfy
No, it was right the first time. Democrats in the House keep slowly plodding through the motions, each time pretending that this time, THIS time, their chamber will be shown the respect it deserves. If they understood that Trump is going to block everything, they'd have had a subpoena in hand for what's his name's deposition. You're not allowed to testify now? Okay, here's some paperwork, we order you to testify... now.

The Trump administration has obstructed and intimidated every single witness so far. There is every indication they will continue to do so, even with subpoenas, even with impeachment. They need to understand that and plan for it, not simply act outraged every time Lucy pulls the football away and back up for another run at it.
Beelzebuddy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2019, 08:13 PM   #578
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 9,879
The House Committees should hold uncooperating witnesses in contempt, fine them $5,000 a day and send the bill to Trump, personally.
That will get him to cooperate.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2019, 08:18 PM   #579
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 22,507
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
The House Committees should hold uncooperating witnesses in contempt, fine them $5,000 a day and send the bill to Trump, personally.
That will get him to cooperate.
No, they should hold them in contempt, arrest them and fine them.
__________________
Try
Science, not superstition.
Reason, not revelation.
Education, not epiphanies
Intellect, not ignorance.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2019, 08:19 PM   #580
blutoski
Penultimate Amazing
 
blutoski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,783
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
The House Committees should hold uncooperating witnesses in contempt, fine them $5,000 a day and send the bill to Trump, personally.
That will get him to cooperate.
Why would he care about this bill?

His SOP is to decree that he doesn't have to pay for things like the little people do.
__________________
"Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett
blutoski is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2019, 08:23 PM   #581
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 9,879
Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Why would he care about this bill?

His SOP is to decree that he doesn't have to pay for things like the little people do.
Then they can start repossessing stuff, starting with his pile of prescription drugs.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 04:23 AM   #582
Delvo
الشيطان الأبيض
 
Delvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 8,101
Or his house
Delvo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 04:25 AM   #583
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 9,879
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Or his house
you sure he's got a house? Or even an apartment?
I think the banks would have first dibs.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 07:36 AM   #584
slyjoe
Graduate Poster
 
slyjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Near Harmonica Virgins
Posts: 1,704
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
No, they should hold them in contempt, arrest them and fine them.
Barr and Wilbur Ross are already in contempt.
__________________
"You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade
slyjoe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 07:38 AM   #585
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 20,500
Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Barr and Wilbur Ross are already in contempt.
They're in contempt in the same way a tree falling in the forest with no one around to hear it makes a sound.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 07:40 AM   #586
slyjoe
Graduate Poster
 
slyjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Near Harmonica Virgins
Posts: 1,704
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
They're in contempt in the same way a tree falling in the forest with no one around to hear it makes a sound.
Unfortunately true. My understanding, limited as it is, is that Congress would have to take them to court and have a judge tell them (Barr and Ross) to comply with the subpoena. Then, when they don't, the judge can determine they are in contempt of COURT, then penalties can be applied. One to 12 months in jail and/or up to $100,000.

I don't know if Congress has taken the contempt citation to court yet.
__________________
"You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade

Last edited by slyjoe; 9th October 2019 at 07:41 AM.
slyjoe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 08:48 AM   #587
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,907
Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Unfortunately true. My understanding, limited as it is, is that Congress would have to take them to court and have a judge tell them (Barr and Ross) to comply with the subpoena. Then, when they don't, the judge can determine they are in contempt of COURT, then penalties can be applied. One to 12 months in jail and/or up to $100,000.

I don't know if Congress has taken the contempt citation to court yet.
Actually, I think Congress has the ability to enforce subpoenas, outside of the courts.

From: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress
Under that ruling, courts generally do not hear motions to quash Congressional subpoenas; even when executive branch officials refuse to comply, courts tend to rule that such matters are "political questions" unsuitable for judicial remedy. In fact, many legal rights usually associated with a judicial subpoena do not apply to a Congressional subpoena.
...
Under this process, the procedure for holding a person in contempt involves only the chamber concerned. Following a contempt citation, the person cited is arrested by the Sergeant-at-Arms for the House or Senate, brought to the floor of the chamber, held to answer charges by the presiding officer, and then subjected to punishment as the chamber may dictate (usually imprisonment for punishment, imprisonment for coercion, or release from the contempt citation).


If that's true, then Congress certainly has the authority to "play hardball"... to issue subpoenas and if Trump or his minions fail to respond, to have them arrested.

(I will of course defer to anyone with more legal expertise than myself.)
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 08:56 AM   #588
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 22,507
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Actually, I think Congress has the ability to enforce subpoenas, outside of the courts.

From: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress
Under that ruling, courts generally do not hear motions to quash Congressional subpoenas; even when executive branch officials refuse to comply, courts tend to rule that such matters are "political questions" unsuitable for judicial remedy. In fact, many legal rights usually associated with a judicial subpoena do not apply to a Congressional subpoena.
...
Under this process, the procedure for holding a person in contempt involves only the chamber concerned. Following a contempt citation, the person cited is arrested by the Sergeant-at-Arms for the House or Senate, brought to the floor of the chamber, held to answer charges by the presiding officer, and then subjected to punishment as the chamber may dictate (usually imprisonment for punishment, imprisonment for coercion, or release from the contempt citation).


If that's true, then Congress certainly has the authority to "play hardball"... to issue subpoenas and if Trump or his minions fail to respond, to have them arrested.

(I will of course defer to anyone with more legal expertise than myself.)
You pretty much nailed it. Journey v Mackracken 294 U.S. 125 (1935)
__________________
Try
Science, not superstition.
Reason, not revelation.
Education, not epiphanies
Intellect, not ignorance.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 09:13 AM   #589
turingtest
Mistral, mistral wind...
 
turingtest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,794
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Democrats to subpoena Gordon Sondland, after the State Department blocked his voluntary testimony

Sondland had interacted directly with Trump around the time of the Ukraine phone call, and was the man who told Ron Johnson that the phone call had involved quid pro quo.

This is how Trump responded on twitter: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...60708808486914
What I love about this is the way Trump refuses to let Sondland testify under oath at the same time he uses the unsworn testimony of his "tweet" (actually a text message Sondland sent Taylor- the message that is at the center of the question)- he'll use the message to proclaim his innocence but refuse to let anyone ask questions about it. In Trump-land, you can eat your cake and have it too.
__________________
I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV;
I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems
Deep Purple- "The Aviator"

Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King
turingtest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 09:24 AM   #590
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 21,098
Originally Posted by DkCreative View Post
Does anyone know what kind of dirt they were looking for? Obviously they had to have a hunch of something before risking everything.
Why? The Trumpettes made up lies about Clinton from whole cloth.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 09:30 AM   #591
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 76,095
Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
No, it was right the first time. Democrats in the House keep slowly plodding through the motions, each time pretending that this time, THIS time, their chamber will be shown the respect it deserves. If they understood that Trump is going to block everything, they'd have had a subpoena in hand for what's his name's deposition. You're not allowed to testify now? Okay, here's some paperwork, we order you to testify... now.

The Trump administration has obstructed and intimidated every single witness so far. There is every indication they will continue to do so, even with subpoenas, even with impeachment. They need to understand that and plan for it, not simply act outraged every time Lucy pulls the football away and back up for another run at it.
No, I had it right. Just because Trump is huffing and puffing and making up fake talking points like an imaginary rule the whole House has to vote before proceeding with an Impeachment, and trying to gaslight his base doesn't mean ****.

The longer Trump drags it out, the closer to the election it gets and the more nervous the Senate Republicans are getting.

Why you think the Democrats aren't going to write up Articles of Impeachment because Trump is huffing and puffing is beyond me.

Keep in mind Trump appears successful while he fails at everything given enough time. He's failing at being POTUS and that's par for the course.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 09:36 AM   #592
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 76,095
Originally Posted by DkCreative View Post
Does anyone know what kind of dirt they were looking for? Obviously they had to have a hunch of something before risking everything.
Trump?



Come on, he constantly spews lies about people and everything else.

And risk everything?

__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 09:45 AM   #593
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 22,507
Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
What I love about this is the way Trump refuses to let Sondland testify under oath at the same time he uses the unsworn testimony of his "tweet" (actually a text message Sondland sent Taylor- the message that is at the center of the question)- he'll use the message to proclaim his innocence but refuse to let anyone ask questions about it. In Trump-land, you can eat your cake and have it too.
It's not just one message, it is a series of messages and how the series shows a clear consciousness of guilt. It is how Sondland broke off his text conversation and resumed it 5 hours later with a message with an entorely different tone. A text that looks like was written by a lawyer. Why did Sondland break off the conversation and call the President? Trump keeps touting that text while ignoring the other texts. It appears as if Sondland was conspiring with the President and others to get their stories straight.
__________________
Try
Science, not superstition.
Reason, not revelation.
Education, not epiphanies
Intellect, not ignorance.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 09:46 AM   #594
WilliamSeger
Philosopher
 
WilliamSeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,021
Originally Posted by DkCreative View Post
Does anyone know what kind of dirt they were looking for? Obviously they had to have a hunch of something before risking everything.

Yep, congratulations, that's exactly what you're supposed to assume, just like all those crimes detailed in Hillary's email.
WilliamSeger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 09:48 AM   #595
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 76,095
I channel-surfed past the 700 Club this morning and saw Pat Robertson repeating the GOP/Trump talking point that the whole House (as opposed to a committee) has to vote before starting the Impeachment investigation.

Typical of these liars, he claimed he talked to "two legal scholars" that agree with him.

His audience I'm sure just eats those lies up.

I guess God has forgiven Trump's mistake of withdrawing from Syria.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 09:59 AM   #596
Armitage72
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,321
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I channel-surfed past the 700 Club this morning and saw Pat Robertson repeating the GOP/Trump talking point that the whole House (as opposed to a committee) has to vote before starting the Impeachment investigation.

Typical of these liars, he claimed he talked to "two legal scholars" that agree with him.

This is the same show that had a "trained martial artist" say that you can kill someone with a single well-placed blow from a baton, so the fact that the police hit Rodney King so many times proved that they weren't really trying to hurt him.
Armitage72 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 10:28 AM   #597
turingtest
Mistral, mistral wind...
 
turingtest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,794
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It's not just one message, it is a series of messages and how the series shows a clear consciousness of guilt. It is how Sondland broke off his text conversation and resumed it 5 hours later with a message with an entorely different tone. A text that looks like was written by a lawyer. Why did Sondland break off the conversation and call the President? Trump keeps touting that text while ignoring the other texts. It appears as if Sondland was conspiring with the President and others to get their stories straight.
Yep. But it's the one isolated message that Trump wants to use, as (unsworn) testimony for his innocence, out of a whole that needs to be explored under oath and that may show guilt. And that's a pattern Trump (and his defenders) seem to follow, taking evidence, including his own words/actions, out of a properly-considered whole and pretending that the piece-meals proclaim innocence. "Great and unmatched wisdom?" "He was joking!"- ignoring all the times he has said things that reveal an unmatched superiority complex. "He asked foreign countries (Ukraine and China) to investigate Biden for corruption." "Well, shouldn't the President be allowed to ask people to investigate possible corruption, even if those people are in another country?"- ignoring that the only "corruption" he seems concerned with is what he attributes, without any actual investigation, to a man who is, I'm sure by coincidence, a political rival.

All this wide-eyed innocence coming from Trump supporters just is not very convincing.
__________________
I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV;
I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems
Deep Purple- "The Aviator"

Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King
turingtest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 10:48 AM   #598
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 85,197
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I didn't misspeak, though. I said exactly what I wanted to say, in exactly the way I wanted to say it.
Then the problem's at the source.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 10:50 AM   #599
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 85,197
Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Belz, theprestige

I don't care if you two resolve your issues in private messages, another thread, or a seedy motel room that charges by the hour. As long this nonsense stops getting dragged into other threads multiple times, I'll be happy. Please just stop.
Belz..., please don't correct people when they make errors or tell untruths, it's disruptive.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 10:51 AM   #600
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 85,197
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
King Donald The First.
I am above the Law.
If this keeps up, the Senate's going to become just as important as it was under Augustus.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:01 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.