ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags 2020 elections , Bernie Sanders , presidential candidates

Reply
Old 20th February 2019, 11:01 AM   #121
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 38,561
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Minor nitpick:

At the time of the civil war, the Union had a population of ~22 million, the Confederate states ~9 million (non-slaves). So while a bunch of states did secede, it was far less than half (both in number of citizens and in actual number of states.)

Also, it should be noted that not all of the people in the confederate states would have supported seceding. Many might have preferred to stay in the union.
People in western Virginia, for example. But we can probably put a fork in this sidebar, since Donal has clarified that "most despised candidate of all time" wasn't a point he was trying to make, wasn't intended to support any argument, and isn't a claim he wishes to defend. Not sure why he even posted it to begin with, but whatever.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 11:57 AM   #122
Minoosh
Philosopher
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 9,933
Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
You sure about that?
In terms of winning a nation election, yeah I'm sure Bernie is not mainstream enough.
Minoosh is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 12:00 PM   #123
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 76,108
Originally Posted by Donal View Post
You know what didn't happen in 2016? Centrist Democrat who isolated herself with high priced consultants winning the presidency against the most despised candidate of all time.

The Dems could put Bill flippin' Gates on the ticket and Stupid will still scream socialism at every opportunity. And the press will treat it as a serious discussion.

Because, hold on to your hat, the Republicans are not interested in factual, policy driven discussions. I know, shocking.

So acting like any sort of good faith discussion is going to happen with Stupid (or whoever the GOP runs) is a hindrance. Instead of bending over backwards to try and find someone who can't be attacked, go with someone who is assertive, has real policies to drive, and can actually excite someone other than a CNN/MSNBC talking head. Go with someone who won't flinch when some goofy nickname or conspiracy theory gets thrown at them.
It's a given the GOP is out to brand the Democratic Party as socialist. They began that a few years ago after the word 'liberal' ceased to have the level of negative connotation desired.

Doesn't mean they are or that they'll elect Bernie in the primary.

I get it all the sour grapes about Bernie makes it look like this is the chance to right a wrong, but he's not the right candidate and neither is Biden. The Democratic Party needs a rising star, not a stale one.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 12:11 PM   #124
Donal
Illuminator
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,872
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It's a given the GOP is out to brand the Democratic Party as socialist. They began that a few years ago after the word 'liberal' ceased to have the level of negative connotation desired.
Great, so we don't need to take them into account

Quote:
Doesn't mean they are or that they'll elect Bernie in the primary.
Of course not. My point is don't let their rhetoric drive the conversation. Fearing the mean things the Republicans will say is not a good strategy for choosing a candidate.

Quote:
I get it all the sour grapes about Bernie makes it look like this is the chance to right a wrong,
Or move beyond a strategy that not only fails, actually helps cause long term damage.

Quote:
but he's not the right candidate and neither is Biden. The Democratic Party needs a rising star, not a stale one.
I'm inclined to agree with you here.
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 12:54 PM   #125
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,696
I wonder if the OP will become a die hard supporter of Bernie, and them denounce him because they disagree on a single issue, as in the last election.
And Bernie is just too old for the job, to be frank. Let's not pretend his age and health will not matter.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 12:57 PM   #126
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,696
And I see the lost tribe beleivers are out in force.
They are greatly over estimating the number of "progressive" voters in the US. Ideologues tend to do that.
And last time Bernie was pretty much the only lefty horse in the race. That won't happen next time.
If Bernie gets the nomination, Trump will be reelected.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.

Last edited by dudalb; 20th February 2019 at 12:59 PM.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:00 PM   #127
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,696
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
In terms of winning a nation election, yeah I'm sure Bernie is not mainstream enough.
And his age is going to be a factor.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:01 PM   #128
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 38,561
If Bernie gets the nom, I'll vote for him over Trump
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:03 PM   #129
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 85,391
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If Bernie gets the nom, I'll vote for him over Trump
I'm not American but I would vote for a broom over Trump.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:06 PM   #130
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 20,577
//slight hijack//

This all I think, ties back to one of the most basic questions of democracy.

Which is the better result, the most possible people getting their ideal candidate or the most possible people getting an acceptable candidate?

Let's do a little thought experiment. Let's rewind the clock back to election night 2016 and have the election again. But the ballot is different this time. Trump, Clinton, Sanders, Stein, Johnson the same names are on there but the question asked is "Which of these candidates would be an acceptable President of the United States? (Check All the Apply)" And for the sake of it let's say most people are at least trying to answer the question honestly, or at least as honestly as they vote in traditional elections.

Who would have won? It's a tricky question I think. My gut tells me it would have been Clinton but I can imagine non-crazy scenarios where one of the dark horse candidates would have taken it if the question was being asked in that way.
________________________________________

More directly on topic I agree that the Dems desperately need a fresh face. Nobody "known."
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:15 PM   #131
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,696
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
//slight hijack//

This all I think, ties back to one of the most basic questions of democracy.

Which is the better result, the most possible people getting their ideal candidate or the most possible people getting an acceptable candidate?

Let's do a little thought experiment. Let's rewind the clock back to election night 2016 and have the election again. But the ballot is different this time. Trump, Clinton, Sanders, Stein, Johnson the same names are on there but the question asked is "Which of these candidates would be an acceptable President of the United States? (Check All the Apply)" And for the sake of it let's say most people are at least trying to answer the question honestly, or at least as honestly as they vote in traditional elections.

Who would have won? It's a tricky question I think. My gut tells me it would have been Clinton but I can imagine non-crazy scenarios where one of the dark horse candidates would have taken it if the question was being asked in that way.
________________________________________

More directly on topic I agree that the Dems desperately need a fresh face. Nobody "known."
And that some of our most hard core GOP supporters seem to support Bernie getting the nomination should tell you something.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:18 PM   #132
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,696
And if Bernie gets the nomination, you can bet there will be a big name running as an independent Centrist ,splitting the anti Trump vote.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:19 PM   #133
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 20,577
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And that some of our most hard core GOP supporters seem to support Bernie getting the nomination should tell you something.
Well that's the poison that is first past the post voting. 3rd party votes aren't only meaningless, they are counter productive.

Everyone has to vote strategically, second and third and forth guessing every other person's hypothetical vote. There's almost no honest voting going on because you can't.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:20 PM   #134
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,696
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
In terms of winning a nation election, yeah I'm sure Bernie is not mainstream enough.
The problem with a lot of political ideologues,is that they spend most of their time with other ideolgues, and get a skewed vision of the world.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:22 PM   #135
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 20,577
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The problem with a lot of political ideologues,is that they spend most of their time with other ideolgues, and get a skewed vision of the world.
"Our brains only have one scale, and we resize our experience to fit it."
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:26 PM   #136
d4m10n
Illuminator
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 4,192
Wonder if the Russian bots will come out for Sanders this time around.
__________________
I'm a happy SINner on the Skeptic Ink Network!
Background Probability: Against Irrationality, Innumeracy, and Ignobility
http://skepticink.com/backgroundprobability/
d4m10n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:27 PM   #137
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,696
ANd he is 77 years old. Sorry, but his age and health have got to be a big consideration when you consider just how much pressure the job of POTUS is. He might be in good health for a man 77 years old,but sorry, IMHO that is just too old for the presidency. I would say there would be good chance he would not finish his first term.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:28 PM   #138
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,696
And, I repeat, the whole "Bernie Is Our Savior" cult turns me off big time. I have had enough of Polticial Saviors and their cult to last for a long time.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:34 PM   #139
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 20,577
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
ANd he is 77 years old. Sorry, but his age and health have got to be a big consideration when you consider just how much pressure the job of POTUS is. He might be in good health for a man 77 years old,but sorry, IMHO that is just too old for the presidency. I would say there would be good chance he would not finish his first term.
Confession. I don't want old people in politics because I don't want people in office who's "future" can't go past the next 30-40 years.

I want people who are going to have to live with the consequences of the decision they make.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:37 PM   #140
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,113
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And if Bernie gets the nomination, you can bet there will be a big name running as an independent Centrist ,splitting the anti Trump vote.
I wouldn't be so sure. Anyone running third party would be forever castigated as The Great Spoiler. I would think such a person would be a persona non grata in the Democratic party.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:38 PM   #141
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 76,108
Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Great, so we don't need to take them into account
How did you get this straw man out of what I posted?

Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Of course not. My point is don't let their rhetoric drive the conversation. Fearing the mean things the Republicans will say is not a good strategy for choosing a candidate.

Or move beyond a strategy that not only fails, actually helps cause long term damage.
And you think I do that?
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:39 PM   #142
Donal
Illuminator
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,872
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
ANd he is 77 years old. Sorry, but his age and health have got to be a big consideration when you consider just how much pressure the job of POTUS is. He might be in good health for a man 77 years old,but sorry, IMHO that is just too old for the presidency. I would say there would be good chance he would not finish his first term.
I do remember age and health being a taboo subject in early 2015.

I think you're right, especially given to the way the job ages a person. I just think you'll have a hard time selling Baby Boomers on that.
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:44 PM   #143
Imhotep
Graduate Poster
 
Imhotep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 1,025
Maybe I'm too idealistic, too naive, or something worse.

But I just welcome all candidates and plan to vote for the one that I feel would make the best president.

I don't get gatekeeping of candidates and I don't get strategic voting*

*voting based on who you think has the best chance to win instead of who you like best
Imhotep is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:44 PM   #144
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 76,108
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The problem with a lot of political ideologues,is that they spend most of their time with other ideolgues, and get a skewed vision of the world.
This is what I think as well.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:46 PM   #145
Donal
Illuminator
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,872
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
How did you get this straw man out of what I posted?
By the words you used in the context you used them. You were the one who said Bernie is not a good candidate because the Republicans will scream about socialism.

Quote:
The GOP, regardless of Trump running or not, have already started their fear mongering campaign: Socialism equates to Maduro and Venezuela.

The American public already thinks socialism is the liberal goal, no capitalism allowed. And once again the Democrats are failing to counter the lie.
Quote:
And you think I do that?
Ya. Why else would I have said that?

Last edited by Donal; 20th February 2019 at 01:48 PM.
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:47 PM   #146
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 38,561
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I'm not American but I would vote for a broom over Trump.
One reason to vote for Trump is to continue the experiment: Will you ever get tired of reminding people who already know that you don't like Trump, that you don't like Trump?
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:51 PM   #147
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 38,561
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And that some of our most hard core GOP supporters seem to support Bernie getting the nomination should tell you something.
It should tell you, first of all, that they're not actually hard core GOP supporters. For some reason it doesn't, though. I think this has been a fundamental flaw in your analysis all along.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 01:59 PM   #148
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 85,391
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
One reason to vote for Trump is to continue the experiment: Will you ever get tired of reminding people who already know that you don't like Trump, that you don't like Trump?
Do I ever get tired of reminding people who already know that I love chocolate, that I love chocolate?

That's a silly question. The people most likely to bump the Hillary Is Done thread are people who hate her. People talk about stuff they care about. News at 11.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 02:37 PM   #149
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 76,108
Originally Posted by Donal View Post
By the words you used in the context you used them. You were the one who said Bernie is not a good candidate because the Republicans will scream about socialism.
All you've done is is repeat your misconception about what I said. Doesn't move the discussion forward.

Perhaps if I had said you posted a false dichotomy you might understand.


Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Ya. Why else would I have said that?
Did you miss the eye-roll which said very clearly, I do not think that?
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 02:40 PM   #150
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 76,108
Originally Posted by Imhotep View Post
Maybe I'm too idealistic, too naive, or something worse.

But I just welcome all candidates and plan to vote for the one that I feel would make the best president.

I don't get gatekeeping of candidates and I don't get strategic voting*

*voting based on who you think has the best chance to win instead of who you like best
I think voting for who would make the best POTUS is the best strategy and hopefully that is also the person with the best chance of winning.

I think Sanders has too narrow of a platform to make a good POTUS.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 02:59 PM   #151
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 20,577
"Electibility" has to be one of the things you factor into "best President."
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 03:01 PM   #152
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 19,150
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Confession. I don't want old people in politics because I don't want people in office who's "future" can't go past the next 30-40 years.

I want people who are going to have to live with the consequences of the decision they make.
I feel the same about old people voting, even as I get closer and closer to whatever arbitrary line one wants to set for "old".
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 03:51 PM   #153
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,043
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The problem with a lot of political ideologues,is that they spend most of their time with other ideolgues, and get a skewed vision of the world.
Yes, this is exactly the problem with the "radical centrists".
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 05:43 PM   #154
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 3,172
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If Bernie gets the nom, I'll vote for him over Trump
I'd vote for Ron Paul over Trump.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 06:10 PM   #155
d4m10n
Illuminator
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 4,192
Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Yes, this is exactly the problem with the "radical centrists".
Speaking as a card-carrying radical moderate...
__________________
I'm a happy SINner on the Skeptic Ink Network!
Background Probability: Against Irrationality, Innumeracy, and Ignobility
http://skepticink.com/backgroundprobability/
d4m10n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 07:18 PM   #156
Elagabalus
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,899
Originally Posted by Imhotep View Post
Maybe I'm too idealistic, too naive, or something worse.

But I just welcome all candidates and plan to vote for the one that I feel would make the best president.

I don't get gatekeeping of candidates and I don't get strategic voting*

*voting based on who you think has the best chance to win instead of who you like best
Yeah ... I kind of don't get this whole we have to appear more sane and more mature in our choice for a candidate. Trump is ******* POTUS! Everyone on the ******* planet is more sane and more mature than he is!
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 07:28 PM   #157
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 38,561
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I'd vote for Ron Paul over Trump.
Would you vote for Bernie in the primaries, though?
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 07:58 PM   #158
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,043
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Speaking as a card-carrying radical moderate...
Modern "centrism" really isn't moderate. The economic theory it follows is demonstrably flawed and designed to redistribute wealth upwards (and it's out of touch with the desires of a majority of the population), and the foreign policy aggressively pro-war and still favors sponsoring coups globally (Kissinger and his acolytes as still in charge of the FP.) Neoconservatism is "center" now.

Bush's Iraq war killed about 20k civilians. The US sponsored Syrian "civil war" (which would not have been a war at all without the US arming the rebels) has killed almost half a million. Libya is worse off than Iraq after the US-led NATO bombings. The there's Latin America.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 08:20 PM   #159
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,043
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
"Declared" is an important qualification there, because he's actually behind Biden.
Well, yeah. I was just getting it in there while I could. lol
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2019, 11:19 PM   #160
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 3,172
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Would you vote for Bernie in the primaries, though?
Of course.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:57 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.