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Tags donald trump , Hunter Biden , joe biden , rudy giuliani , Trump controversies , US-Ukraine relations

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Old 24th September 2019, 08:39 AM   #321
The Great Zaganza
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Trump seems to still think that whatever a lawyer does, or what is being said and done in the presence of a lawyer is protected by Privilege - and everything a President does and everyone he knows is protected by Executive Privilege.

High time to dissuade him of that notion.
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:24 AM   #322
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There was a full Democratic caucus meeting this morning.

Originally Posted by Laura Bassett
@LEBassett

Woke up to text from senior Dem House staffer: “The dam has broken here. We’re going to impeach.”

9:40 AM - Sep 24, 2019
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:33 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
There was a full Democratic caucus meeting this morning.
Hmm if it happens think they will go with all the felonies we know he committed or just keep it to a few?
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:37 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Hmm if it happens think they will go with all the felonies we know he committed or just keep it to a few?
I can hardly wait to find out. Wow, living through Nixon, Clinton, and this; I am truly blessed by living in interesting times.
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Old 24th September 2019, 10:02 AM   #325
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RE: Impeachment....
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Hmm if it happens think they will go with all the felonies we know he committed or just keep it to a few?
No easy answer for the democrats her.

Give a list of every crime he has committed might even cause some of his supporters to say "whoa... I didn't think he had done all that". On the other hand, including some of the smaller/pettier crimes might spread people's interest too thin, and end up with people thinking the Democrats are just being nit-pickers.
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Old 24th September 2019, 10:05 AM   #326
The Great Zaganza
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you can always add to Articles of Impeachment ...
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Old 24th September 2019, 10:12 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
you can always add to Articles of Impeachment ...
It's such a stupid word. "Impeachment" should mean "to pelt with peaches". Despite Trump's coloration and stickiness I bet he's never been close to fruit before.
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Old 24th September 2019, 11:35 AM   #328
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Trump says he's going to release the full, declassified, un-redacted transcript of his call with the Ukranian Pres. So assuming that's true and nothing like what is alleged appears on that call, does that put a damper on this whole thing? I guess it still leaves room for stuff like, "we don't know if that is truly unredacted or complete," but it makes it a little harder to substantiate the whistleblower's claims.
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Old 24th September 2019, 11:46 AM   #329
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He also said he'd release his tax returns. This is Trump: believe he'll do something after he does it, not before.
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Old 24th September 2019, 11:47 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
He also said he'd release his tax returns. This is Trump: believe he'll do something after he does it, not before.
He also said he would pay for the defense of his supporters who assaulted protestors and didn't live up to that either.
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Old 24th September 2019, 11:51 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Trump says he's going to release the full, declassified, un-redacted transcript of his call with the Ukranian Pres. So assuming that's true and nothing like what is alleged appears on that call, does that put a damper on this whole thing? I guess it still leaves room for stuff like, "we don't know if that is truly unredacted or complete," but it makes it a little harder to substantiate the whistleblower's claims.
You are also assuming that the Ukraine call is all that this is about. If he also made a call to the Russians saying he was going to lean on the Ukraine...
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Old 24th September 2019, 11:52 AM   #332
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He'll just do something else to distract us. It's been his only tactic and it always works.

What should we do? Go back. Find the first impeachable offense he committed as President. Hammer that one. Don't let it become about anything else no matter how much worse it is.
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Old 24th September 2019, 11:58 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Trump says he's going to release the full, declassified, un-redacted transcript of his call with the Ukranian Pres. So assuming that's true and nothing like what is alleged appears on that call, does that put a damper on this whole thing? I guess it still leaves room for stuff like, "we don't know if that is truly unredacted or complete," but it makes it a little harder to substantiate the whistleblower's claims.
If that's what he actually does, then it could only be because the complaint includes other stuff or the point of the complaint doesn't make sense without context. For now, we don't need the transcripts, and it's probably best not to set that precedent unless there's a specific dispute about what was said. Right now, we need the complaint, which is what's legally required.
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Old 24th September 2019, 12:04 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Trump says he's going to release the full, declassified, un-redacted transcript of his call with the Ukranian Pres. So assuming that's true and nothing like what is alleged appears on that call, does that put a damper on this whole thing? I guess it still leaves room for stuff like, "we don't know if that is truly unredacted or complete," but it makes it a little harder to substantiate the whistleblower's claims.
He also said he would release his taxes.

I'm not sure it would change a thing. Trump has admitted he spoke to the Ukraine about Biden while withholding the aid Congress authorized. A quid pro quo doesn't have to be explicit.
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Old 24th September 2019, 12:09 PM   #335
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Verifying the accuracy of the transcripts, with no redactions, would be necessary. We would also need proof that the transcripts were of the calls to which the whistle blower referred, which would require release of the whistle blower's complaint.
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Old 24th September 2019, 12:13 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Verifying the accuracy of the transcripts, with no redactions, would be necessary. We would also need proof that the transcripts were of the calls to which the whistle blower referred, which would require release of the whistle blower's complaint.
And who exactly are we going to verify them with who isn't on team Trump?
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Old 24th September 2019, 12:17 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Verifying the accuracy of the transcripts, with no redactions, would be necessary. We would also need proof that the transcripts were of the calls to which the whistle blower referred, which would require release of the whistle blower's complaint.
The whistle blower is currently negotiating to testify before Congress.
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Old 24th September 2019, 12:26 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
The whistle blower is currently negotiating to testify before Congress.
Hadn't heard about that, so I googled it and it seems to be true...

From: https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...se-intel-panel
House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) said Tuesday that the whistleblower who reportedly first raised alarm about President Trump’s conversations with the Ukraine’s leader, wants to speak to the panel, and that they are expecting the whistleblower’s testimony "as soon as this week."
...
...the center of the scandal is not the transcript of their phone call, but rather the whistleblower’s complaint, which could contain more information and context in addition to the contents of their phone conversations.
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Old 24th September 2019, 12:30 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Verifying the accuracy of the transcripts, with no redactions, would be necessary. We would also need proof that the transcripts were of the calls to which the whistle blower referred, which would require release of the whistle blower's complaint.
CNN is reporting the person. Had no direct knowledge.

Quote:
About the whistleblower's complaint: CNN had earlier reported, citing a source familiar with the case, that the complaint was prompted by concerns over communications between the President and a foreign leader. The alleged whistleblower didn't have direct knowledge of the communications that partly prompted the complaint to the inspector general, an official briefed on the matter told CNN on Thursday. Instead, the whistleblower's concerns came in part from learning information that was not obtained during the course of their work, and those details have played a role in the administration's determination that the complaint didn't fit the reporting requirements under the intelligence whistleblower law, the official said.
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-ne...51397bc46f7166
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Old 24th September 2019, 12:38 PM   #340
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Also looks like the impeachment inquiry will be formalized today.
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Old 24th September 2019, 01:10 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Trump says he's going to release the full, declassified, un-redacted transcript of his call with the Ukranian Pres. So assuming that's true and nothing like what is alleged appears on that call, does that put a damper on this whole thing? I guess it still leaves room for stuff like, "we don't know if that is truly unredacted or complete," but it makes it a little harder to substantiate the whistleblower's claims.
There were apparently eight calls in a short period of time. All of them must be revealed.
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Old 24th September 2019, 01:12 PM   #342
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Listen when has releasing tapes ever effected a President about to undergo impeachment proceedings?

Except that one time.
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Old 24th September 2019, 01:28 PM   #343
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Trump whistleblower brewing scandal

I did some reading about this. . . It all hinges on, essentially, a bribery charge. The proximity of the calls to the withheld aid transfer certainly lends credence to that charge in my view. I don’t really buy the “I wanted other nations to pay,” gambit, especially in conjunction with the “we have a right to withhold aid until Ukraine investigates its corruption,” gambit. Seems very much like this centers on investigating Hunter Biden.

Then again, there is a whole subplot in there where it’s alleged the Obama admin pressured Ukraine, with aid money, to fire a prosecutor who may or may not have been investigating Hunter Biden...

It’s a tangled web and I do think 1)The bribery charge is serious enough to warrant an inquiry and 2)We obviously don’t have all the information... but that’s what investigations are for.
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Old 24th September 2019, 01:31 PM   #344
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According to CNN, there is just not the one phone call but "multiple events" that alarmed the whistleblower.

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-ne...int/index.html

We have to know everything, not just see the transcript of the one phone call. If Trump is willing to release that, then I highly suspect it may seem benign if taken out of context with the other alleged events. One thing I think anyone with more than half a brain knows is that Trump is a liar whose word about anything has zero credibility.
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Old 24th September 2019, 01:42 PM   #345
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If he releases evidence that does not prove he is guilty, that proves he is withholding the real evidence.


You know, folks, I've heard that sort of argument before, but it's not usually in this particular subforum.
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Old 24th September 2019, 01:45 PM   #346
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Let the investigation proceed. Maybe they'll find something worth finding. If not, you'll have to count on the voters to get rid of him.
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Old 24th September 2019, 01:45 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Then again, there is a whole subplot in there where it’s alleged the Obama admin pressured Ukraine, with aid money, to fire a prosecutor who may or may not have been investigating Hunter Biden...
The Ukrainian Government launched an investigation of a company that Hunter Biden worked for. The investigation was closed in 2015. In 2016, the Obama administration pressured the Ukraine to get rid of a corrupt prosecutor (who was refusing to investigate corruption) by withholding $1 Billion in aide, to the general approval of the world community.

There is no indication that Hunter Biden himself was ever a target of investigation, getting rid of the corrupt prosecutor was a reasonable and ethical reason for withholding those funds, and if Joe Biden's goal was to protect his son, he probably would have been better off keeping the prosecutor in place.

It's basically Uranium One all over again. A "scandal" that only works if you willfully ignore the inconvenient bits that make it not scandalous.
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Old 24th September 2019, 01:52 PM   #348
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Trump says he's going to release the full, declassified, un-redacted transcript of his call with the Ukranian Pres. So assuming that's true and nothing like what is alleged appears on that call, does that put a damper on this whole thing? I guess it still leaves room for stuff like, "we don't know if that is truly unredacted or complete," but it makes it a little harder to substantiate the whistleblower's claims.
Presupposes Trump believes or understands he committed a criminal act, when he in fact did (if that is the case).
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:03 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
If he releases evidence that does not prove he is guilty, that proves he is withholding the real evidence.


You know, folks, I've heard that sort of argument before, but it's not usually in this particular subforum.
We already know he talked to Ukraine about Biden. We also know that Trump withheld aid that was authorized by Congress. How much do you need? Do you really think that Trump knowing his call is being recorded is going to specifically include a verbal quid pro quo? I mean the man is a moron but even he isn't that stupid..(I think.)

This is what you sound like.

I know that there is blood on his hands and his fingerprints are on the knife but did you actually see him stick the knife into the victim?.
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:04 PM   #350
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Pelosi announces formal impeachment inquiry.

I think we all know the Senate will never convict, but at least the public will get to hear everything the inquiry will reveal. Not that it will make any difference to Trumpers.

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Old 24th September 2019, 02:06 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Let the investigation proceed. Maybe they'll find something worth finding. If not, you'll have to count on the voters to get rid of him.
McConnell is not going to hold a fair trial. He doesn't do anything fairly. It will be up to the voters.
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:07 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Pelosi announces formal impeachment inquiry.
And will hopefully follow through with it with a flair, and success.
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:16 PM   #353
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And there was much rejoicing at the RNC.


Well, they've got a year to dig up something. Or, to put it another way, they've got a year to keep digging.
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:18 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Hell McConnell wouldn't even let the trial go forward
Which might in a way limit the downside for Democrats. They put together a laundry list and vote on it. Hard to make a martyr of Trump if it ends there. Meanwhile the House will have done its duty. McConnell refusing to allow the trial might work in their favor. It might be nice to end the Dem hemming and hawing.
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:21 PM   #355
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While I think Trump should be impeached and removed from office, the fact is we have no assurance, in fact nearly the opposite, that he will be removed from office. I can see this energizing his base and throwing a wild card in to the 2020 elections. Up until now it looked like voting him out in 2020 was the safest option.
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:24 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
The Ukrainian Government launched an investigation of a company that Hunter Biden worked for. The investigation was closed in 2015. In 2016, the Obama administration pressured the Ukraine to get rid of a corrupt prosecutor (who was refusing to investigate corruption) by withholding $1 Billion in aide, to the general approval of the world community.

There is no indication that Hunter Biden himself was ever a target of investigation, getting rid of the corrupt prosecutor was a reasonable and ethical reason for withholding those funds, and if Joe Biden's goal was to protect his son, he probably would have been better off keeping the prosecutor in place.

It's basically Uranium One all over again. A "scandal" that only works if you willfully ignore the inconvenient bits that make it not scandalous.
It probably wasn't appropriate for Hunter to sit on the board of that company.
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:25 PM   #357
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Which might in a way limit the downside for Democrats. They put together a laundry list and vote on it. Hard to make a martyr of Trump if it ends there. Meanwhile the House will have done its duty. McConnell refusing to allow the trial might work in their favor. It might be nice to end the Dem hemming and hawing.
Constitutionally I don't believe McConnell has a choice. If the House issues articles of Impeachment, the Senate must hold the trial. What that trial looks like however is another issue. And the presiding official wouldn't be McConnell, but John Roberts.
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Last edited by acbytesla; 24th September 2019 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:25 PM   #358
Minoosh
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
He also said he would release his taxes.

I'm not sure it would change a thing. Trump has admitted he spoke to the Ukraine about Biden while withholding the aid Congress authorized. A quid pro quo doesn't have to be explicit.
TBD would say it doesn't count unless Trump said, "I promise."
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:30 PM   #359
theprestige
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
And will hopefully follow through with it with a flair, and success.
What success are you hoping for, exactly?
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Old 24th September 2019, 02:32 PM   #360
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
While I think Trump should be impeached and removed from office, the fact is we have no assurance, in fact nearly the opposite, that he will be removed from office. I can see this energizing his base and throwing a wild card in to the 2020 elections. Up until now it looked like voting him out in 2020 was the safest option.
Who's to say? The election is a year away. Everything in life is a risk. There are no assurances either way.
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