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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 26th September 2019, 04:52 AM   #1
phiwum
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The Trump Presidency: Part 17

Originally Posted by bruto View Post
The only link I see on that page leads to the memo, and the notation that the memo is not the transcript.
There is no transcript for such phone calls because they are not recorded. This has been policy since 1974. (I've read a lot of articles recently and can't point immediately to my source on this, but I believe it was a Post article I read this morning.)

This memo, presuming it has not been edited and that the ellipses aren't hiding anything important, is as good as there is.

Mod InfoThis is a continuation from Part 16, which has been closed for length. Posts from previous parts may be freely quoted here.
Posted By:KMortis

Last edited by kmortis; 26th September 2019 at 05:03 AM.
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Old 26th September 2019, 04:55 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
there is no real transcript.

there is a memo of people present's recall of the conversation from notes they made. There is no way to know how accurate it is and how many gaps there are.


This alone probably violates Record Keeping obligations.
If so, every president since 1974 is in similar violation (at least those who served under the current record keeping obligations).

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...-how-it-works/ (This article says mid-1970s, not 1974 exactly. It's not the article I previously read, but I couldn't find that one.)
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Old 26th September 2019, 05:06 AM   #3
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It was discussed in the previous thread why Trump chose to release the complaint.

Let's not forget that it was never legally up to Trump whether or not to release it. Trump and his cronies broke the law by witholding it.
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Old 26th September 2019, 05:25 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
If so, every president since 1974 is in similar violation (at least those who served under the current record keeping obligations).

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...-how-it-works/ (This article says mid-1970s, not 1974 exactly. It's not the article I previously read, but I couldn't find that one.)
This was confirmed (on TV) by an NSC staffer in the Obama administration.
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Old 26th September 2019, 05:31 AM   #5
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The Trump Presidency: Not Even We Think This Is Funny Anymore Part 17
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Old 26th September 2019, 05:34 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
There is no transcript for such phone calls because they are not recorded. This has been policy since 1974.
This one was. There IS a transcript. The White House deemed it classified because it gave them more control over who has access to it:

https://twitter.com/K8brannen/status...47980710535169
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Old 26th September 2019, 05:49 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
If so, every president since 1974 is in similar violation (at least those who served under the current record keeping obligations).

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...-how-it-works/ (This article says mid-1970s, not 1974 exactly. It's not the article I previously read, but I couldn't find that one.)
I believe the president should have executive privilege to have private conversations, but of course that's just one of the reasons why the office requires someone of the highest integrity. Trump only released the transcript because he knew that it was much less damaging than the whistleblower complaint, which Congress had every legal right to receive. Trying to make the best of a bad situation, Trump and his bootlickers will try to make that one call, in isolation, the issue and keep insisting that since Trump didn't explicitly say he would release the aid money if Zelensky started the investigations, then he's in the clear.

You don't have to be stupid to be a trumper, but it helps.
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Old 26th September 2019, 05:54 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
This one was. There IS a transcript. The White House deemed it classified because it gave them more control over who has access to it:

https://twitter.com/K8brannen/status...47980710535169
Wow.
There is an entire machinery set up to hide the incriminating evidence Trump produces over the course of a day.
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Old 26th September 2019, 05:55 AM   #9
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If the released transcript isn't the one stored by the White House, it means that it is the one leaked to the Whistle blower.
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Old 26th September 2019, 06:08 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
The Trump Presidency: Not Even We Think This Is Funny Anymore Part 17
The Trump Presedency: Part Stalag 17.
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Old 26th September 2019, 06:34 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
The Trump Presedency: Part Stalag 17.
Quite possibly "The Trump Presidency: Part 17 and Last"!
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Old 26th September 2019, 06:38 AM   #12
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The full whistleblower complaint is here: It's only 9 pages, worth a read.

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploa...nt_unclass.pdf
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Old 26th September 2019, 07:06 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
It was discussed in the previous thread why Trump chose to release the complaint.

Let's not forget that it was never legally up to Trump whether or not to release it. Trump and his cronies broke the law by witholding it.
I don't believe that is all that clear.

The Justice Department has wide latitude to interpret the requirements of such laws and told the DNI that the whistleblower law didn't apply here. The DNI is bound to follow their advice.

Whether Justice came to the right conclusion may be debatable, but there's an argument that the whistleblower law was for finding issues in the intelligence community and the president isn't part of that community. There's an argument to be had there.
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Old 26th September 2019, 07:08 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
This one was. There IS a transcript. The White House deemed it classified because it gave them more control over who has access to it:

https://twitter.com/K8brannen/status...47980710535169
Is that tweet what you meant to cite? It doesn't say that there was a transcript aside from the "rough transcript" we've received.
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Old 26th September 2019, 07:11 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I don't believe that is all that clear.

The Justice Department has wide latitude to interpret the requirements of such laws and told the DNI that the whistleblower law didn't apply here. The DNI is bound to follow their advice.

Whether Justice came to the right conclusion may be debatable, but there's an argument that the whistleblower law was for finding issues in the intelligence community and the president isn't part of that community. There's an argument to be had there.
No there is not argument to be had. That the person having the whistle blown on them isn't the one who gets to decide if the whistle blowing is valid or not isn't some minor, debatable side detail. It's the point.

Whistle Blower complaints against the DNI have to go to Congress isn't a suggestion or a best practice or unspoken Gentleman's agreement.
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Old 26th September 2019, 08:12 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Is that tweet what you meant to cite? It doesn't say that there was a transcript aside from the "rough transcript" we've received.
The whistle blower 9 page memo says there is a word for word transcript which has been put onto a database for code word level documents. Further, that there are other such transcripts of other problematic calls not related to Ukraine.
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Old 26th September 2019, 08:23 AM   #17
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“Congress, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 transcripts that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by the voters.”
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Old 26th September 2019, 09:01 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I don't believe that is all that clear.

The Justice Department has wide latitude to interpret the requirements of such laws and told the DNI that the whistleblower law didn't apply here. The DNI is bound to follow their advice.

Whether Justice came to the right conclusion may be debatable, but there's an argument that the whistleblower law was for finding issues in the intelligence community and the president isn't part of that community. There's an argument to be had there.
The complaint alleges that the POSOTUS abused power by using Intelligence Department servers to hide politically messy information.
That is not only criminal, but outright despotic.
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Old 26th September 2019, 09:17 AM   #19
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Overshadowed by all the Ukraine/Biden stuff, there have been a few other things happening.

The U.S. almost had a HUGE meltdown with its postal system:

From: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ail-deal-trump
The UN agency linking postal systems worldwide has agreed to reform its fee structure under a proposal by the United States that averted the Trump administration’s threat to leave the global network but may mean many consumers pay more.

The agency basically coordinates mail between countries, so that if you mail something from one country to another, the postage is accepted and the package is moved around. The problem is that the fees for shipping stuff were based on the economic situation from decades ago (when China was much less successful.) Thus, there were accusations that the U.S. was "subsidizing" stuff mailed from china.

The problem is, the Trump administration was engaging in some dangerous brinkmanship... pullout out of the organization would mean the U.S. was largely isolated... mail in or out of the country might not be accepted (unless the U.S. arranged bilateral deals with each country it wanted to exchange mail with.)
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Old 26th September 2019, 09:29 AM   #20
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Another Trump scandal that might have been mentioned already but has gotten waaaaaay too little coverage:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a9117721.html

Egypt wanted to arrest a NYT journalist. The NYT asked the State Department to intervene, but Trump made sure that the US would not help the journalist against the Egyptian police state.
In the end, it took the efforts of Ireland to extract the Journalist.

Trump was probably thrilled to see a reporter from the NYT thrown in jail.
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Old 26th September 2019, 09:43 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Another Trump scandal that might have been mentioned already but has gotten waaaaaay too little coverage:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a9117721.html

Egypt wanted to arrest a NYT journalist. The NYT asked the State Department to intervene, but Trump made sure that the US would not help the journalist against the Egyptian police state.
In the end, it took the efforts of Ireland to extract the Journalist.

Trump was probably thrilled to see a reporter from the NYT thrown in jail.
Trump probably sent them a bone saw for the journalist. Killing journalists who are enemies of the people is something he is for after all.
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Old 26th September 2019, 09:46 AM   #22
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Is there a single day that goes by now without a Trump scandal?
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Old 26th September 2019, 09:51 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Is there a single day that goes by now without a Trump scandal?

"For you, this Trump scandal was the biggest one you had seen happen during the Administration. For me, it was Tuesday."
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Old 26th September 2019, 09:55 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Is there a single day that goes by now without a Trump scandal?
Earlier this week I was thinking he's like Louis XVI in his final years, misstep after misstep in baffled rage that things weren't going his way, and everything he tried to fix it with was so hamhanded it made everything worse.

This intelligence database is the armoire de fer.

I wonder if he'll try a flight to Varennes?
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Old 26th September 2019, 09:56 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Is there a single day that goes by now without a Trump scandal?
Of course there is... on the frequent days when there are two or more.
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Old 26th September 2019, 10:14 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Is there a single day that goes by now without a Trump scandal?
It's the day of the week that doesn't end with a "y".
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Old 26th September 2019, 10:44 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Is there a single day that goes by now without a Trump scandal?
It's like during the Obama Administration. Scandal after scandal after scandal... Dijon mustard, tan suits, Michelle's bare shoulders, Obamacare.
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Old 26th September 2019, 10:47 AM   #28
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Trump Tweets


So bad for our Country!

Joe Gooding
@joegooding
This “whistleblower” was found by the Intelligence Community IG to have a political bias against @POTUS @realDonaldTrump and supports one of his opponents in the 2020 race. You. Don’t. Say. #Hannity
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Old 26th September 2019, 10:49 AM   #29
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Trump Tweets

“Is there a case for impeachment? Absolutely not! There is no high crime or misdemeanor, no crime, no extortion, no treason.” Robert Ray @FoxNews

A whistleblower with second hand information? Another Fake News Story! See what was said on the very nice, no pressure, call. Another Witch Hunt!

Adam Schiff has zero credibility. Another fantasy to hurt the Republican Party!

That, and many other reasons, is why Republicans will win North Carolina!
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Weeks after JW reported that the sheriff of North Carolina’s biggest county released numerous violent illegal immigrant criminals from custody, new federal stats reveal that the problem is statewide.
READ MORE HERE: http://jwatch.us/fkAwfD
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Old 26th September 2019, 10:51 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

“Is there a case for impeachment? Absolutely not! There is no high crime or misdemeanor, no crime, no extortion, no treason.” Robert Ray @FoxNews

A whistleblower with second hand information? Another Fake News Story! See what was said on the very nice, no pressure, call. Another Witch Hunt!

Adam Schiff has zero credibility. Another fantasy to hurt the Republican Party!

That, and many other reasons, is why Republicans will win North Carolina!
Judicial Watch
@JudicialWatch
Weeks after JW reported that the sheriff of North Carolina’s biggest county released numerous violent illegal immigrant criminals from custody, new federal stats reveal that the problem is statewide.
READ MORE HERE: http://jwatch.us/fkAwfD
Looks like Donnie is scared ****less.
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Old 26th September 2019, 10:55 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Earlier this week I was thinking he's like Louis XVI in his final years, misstep after misstep in baffled rage that things weren't going his way, and everything he tried to fix it with was so hamhanded it made everything worse.

This intelligence database is the armoire de fer.

I wonder if he'll try a flight to Varennes?
Après le whistleblower, le déluge.
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Old 26th September 2019, 10:55 AM   #32
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Trump's shooting of a homeless person on 5th Avenue has Democratic mayor De Blasio in hot water for not doing anything about the homeless problem. [/fakenews]
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Old 26th September 2019, 10:55 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
Of course there is... on the frequent days when there are two or more.

In what month of 2019 did the Trump administration have the least number of scandals?
February. It had the least number of days.
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Old 26th September 2019, 11:00 AM   #34
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I predicted in another thread that Trump would compound his issues by improperly using his authority as POTUS to try and punish the whistleblower and/or his attorney. Seems we are inching closer and closer to it, he's already sewing the seeds for such an attack.

Looking forward to finding out that Trump sicced the DOJ on the whistleblower in a half-baked cover-up and retaliation campaign.
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Old 26th September 2019, 11:06 AM   #35
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets


So bad for our Country!

Joe Gooding
@joegooding
This “whistleblower” was found by the Intelligence Community IG to have a political bias against @POTUS @realDonaldTrump and supports one of his opponents in the 2020 race. You. Don’t. Say. #Hannity
Well, of course we can't expect a Trump supporter in his administration to expose Trump for what he is. That would be putting the country first and not being personally loyal to Trump. We can't have that now, can we?
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Old 26th September 2019, 11:12 AM   #36
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The whistleblower should sue Trump in civil court for damages - he would probably succeed.
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Old 26th September 2019, 11:17 AM   #37
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Trump Tweets

Liddle’ Adam Schiff, who has worked unsuccessfully for 3 years to hurt the Republican Party and President, has just said that the Whistleblower, even though he or she only had second hand information, “is credible.” How can that be with zero info and a known bias. Democrat Scam!
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Old 26th September 2019, 11:18 AM   #38
Segnosaur
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets


So bad for our Country!

Joe Gooding
@joegooding
This “whistleblower” was found by the Intelligence Community IG to have a political bias against @POTUS @realDonaldTrump and supports one of his opponents in the 2020 race. You. Don’t. Say. #Hannity
I was curious who exactly this "Joe Gooding" was. Some sort of respected journalist? Long time political associate with some inside information?

Nope.... he's a blogger. Specifically, he has an anti-vaccine blog on wordpress. (And not even a well-designed blog either.)

That should tell you everything you need to know about Trump... he needs feels the need to reference someone who is an anti-science nitwit.
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Old 26th September 2019, 11:19 AM   #39
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5,455
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Is there a single day that goes by now without a Trump scandal?
Worse, is there a single day of the Trump Presidency that has gone by without his Administration committing criminal actions or endorsing criminal actions? The crap with ICE alone already has nearly the entire Presidency covered, after all. That's going beyond the constant and overt corruption, as well as the immerse number of actions that have been struck down in the courts.
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Old 26th September 2019, 11:20 AM   #40
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 9,110
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Liddle’ Adam Schiff, who has worked unsuccessfully for 3 years to hurt the Republican Party and President, has just said that the Whistleblower, even though he or she only had second hand information, “is credible.” How can that be with zero info and a known bias. Democrat Scam!
Your own Inspector General found it credible, you moron.
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