Indian anti-vaccine nuts killing children.

catsmate · 16th July 2016, 02:39 AM

Diphtheria is back in the southern Indian state of Kerala and so far it's killed two children and left forty more ill. That's an easily preventable disease that's mostly considered a relic of the 1950s.

Muhammad Niyas is a physician in Kerala and watched one of those children die, a death he described as "totally preventable". There's no shortage of vaccine.
Unfortunately there's also no shortage of loons preaching against it, mostly in the Muslim dominated north, where "strong anti-vaccination propaganda" has been disseminated, claiming that the vaccination was part of a plot to "control" the Muslim population.
Anti-vaccination leaflets were handed out and public meetings held to discourage immunisation.
Those behind this campaign, universally without real medical qualifications (though some are homeopaths or naturopaths) also claim the vaccines contain "harmful chemicals".

More.
A death that will haunt me for life.

Jodie · 17th July 2016, 08:32 AM

If the vaccine is manufactured outside of the country then they might be paranoid about them for that reason, thinking a larger 1st world country had ulterior motives. It seems to me that we could spend money setting up local manufacturing companies for vaccines rather than shipping the vaccine itself to the countries to alleviate some of this paranoia. You'll still have to deal with that fear of long term side effects that anti-vaxers seem to promote.

Susheel · 18th July 2016, 02:25 AM

Despite the efforts of the current government India has not yet become the backwater hell hole many perceive it to be. Indian companies ds manufacture many of the more commonly available vaccines in the country. The current issue stems from a socio-political milieu in which a fundamentalist Hindu government at the centre has quite overtly generated a reactionary suspicion among a fundamentalist Islamic segment of the populace.

The Atheist · 18th July 2016, 02:39 AM

Originally Posted by catsmate

Diphtheria is back in the southern Indian state of Kerala and so far it's killed two children and left forty more ill. That's an easily preventable disease that's mostly considered a relic of the 1950s.

Sounds like New Zealand - doctors here have been warning of a diphtheria epidemic here thanks to the absurdly low rate of vaccinations. Up to half of all kids in some parts of California aren't vaccinated.

Idiots are everywhere.

We should rejoice.

My aunt died of diphtheria in 1920, when she was 7. Hooray for progress of humankind.

Apologies for the cynicism.

TheGoldcountry · 18th July 2016, 02:41 AM

As far as I am concerned, there is no such thing as too much cynicism when it comes to this anti-vax nonsense.

The Atheist · 18th July 2016, 02:51 AM

Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry

As far as I am concerned, there is no such thing as too much cynicism when it comes to this anti-vax nonsense.

I have to confess it's the one subject that makes my blood boil immediately. I will not sit and listen to anyone spouting anti-vax propaganda, and it's the only subject I'd be ready and willing to defend to death. You can bring all the bigfoot, 9/11 CT, perpetual motion, alien Moon Hoax nutters and I wouldn't bother blinking, but show me an anti-vaxer and I go into Neapolitan/Rottweiler cross mode.

Anti-vaxers are the sickest kind of human alive. They suffer from some weird form of Münchhausen by Proxy Syndrome where they get pleasure from causing the death of children.

Graham2001 · 18th July 2016, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry

As far as I am concerned, there is no such thing as too much cynicism when it comes to this anti-vax nonsense.

Agreed, you have in the case below you have several White Guys peddling anti-vax conspiracy theories to African American community leaders:

Quote:

...the last thing we need is something that can contribute to the worsening of the general distrust that many African-Americans feel toward the medical profession. That’s why it’s so despicable of Andrew Wakefield and Del Bigtree to throw gasoline on the fire with their antivaccine movie VAXXED or its promotion of the “CDC Whistleblower” myth that the CDC somehow “covered up” evidence showing that the MMR causes autism in African-American boys...

...designed to target the African-American community with a story almost custom made to take advantage of the aforementioned distrust of the medical profession that runs rampant in the African-American community, particularly poorer African-American communities.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/20...isinformation/

catsmate · 20th July 2016, 03:03 AM

Originally Posted by Jodie

If the vaccine is manufactured outside of the country then they might be paranoid about them for that reason, thinking a larger 1st world country had ulterior motives. It seems to me that we could spend money setting up local manufacturing companies for vaccines rather than shipping the vaccine itself to the countries to alleviate some of this paranoia. You'll still have to deal with that fear of long term side effects that anti-vaxers seem to promote.

India is self-sufficient wrt production of DPT and DT vaccines (along with TT, BCP, polio, measles, MMR, Hep B and rabies) and has been since at least 1999 AFAIK and probably many years earlier. There are several vaccine producers, public and private sector.

catsmate · 20th July 2016, 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by Susheel

Despite the efforts of the current government India has not yet become the backwater hell hole many perceive it to be. Indian companies ds manufacture many of the more commonly available vaccines in the country. The current issue stems from a socio-political milieu in which a fundamentalist Hindu government at the centre has quite overtly generated a reactionary suspicion among a fundamentalist Islamic segment of the populace.

Indeed vaccine production and research in India are well established and effective.

catsmate · 20th July 2016, 03:05 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Sounds like New Zealand - doctors here have been warning of a diphtheria epidemic here thanks to the absurdly low rate of vaccinations. Up to half of all kids in some parts of California aren't vaccinated.

Idiots are everywhere.

We should rejoice.

My aunt died of diphtheria in 1920, when she was 7. Hooray for progress of humankind.

Apologies for the cynicism.

I have a slight personal interest; some years ago I was exposed to diphtheria in London because of a couple of idiotic USAian parents who didn't have their children vaccinated and travelled to several countries where it was prevalent.

Civet · 20th July 2016, 04:59 PM

I remember being impressed when India was certified polio-free years ago. Let's hope they don't lose that status.

Susheel · 21st July 2016, 10:54 AM

Add to this the fact that the goverment actively promotes woo in place of medicinr.

blutoski · 21st July 2016, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Susheel

Add to this the fact that the goverment actively promotes woo in place of medicinr.

I think this is the main problem, unfortunately. India and Pakistani government officials are a little too interdependent on cash from altmedders, mostly homeopaths. We had an active homeopath on this very forum who was boasting about his endorsements from Pakistani army brass, for example.

The second problem is that even if the vaccines are manufactured domestically, it's still seen as a foreign project and mistrusted. It doesn't help that the assassination of Osama bin Laden was facilitated by a spy posing as an MD who was using the cover to take DNA samples in the community. Link: [Senior Pakistani doctor who organised vaccine programme in Abbottabad arrested by ISI for working with US agents]. In other words: vaccination programs are now regarded as a CIA plot in many Asian communities.

The Atheist · 21st July 2016, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Susheel

Add to this the fact that the goverment actively promotes woo in place of medicinr.

Yes, and not about to change any time soon.

You have a very hard sell over there and have my complete sympathy.

Still, as I see the people lining up here for their ayurvedic astrology consultations, at least you can take heart that people in other countries are buying it, too.

16th July 2016, 02:39 AM	#1
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,414	Indian anti-vaccine nuts killing children. Diphtheria is back in the southern Indian state of Kerala and so far it's killed two children and left forty more ill. That's an easily preventable disease that's mostly considered a relic of the 1950s. Muhammad Niyas is a physician in Kerala and watched one of those children die, a death he described as "totally preventable". There's no shortage of vaccine. Unfortunately there's also no shortage of loons preaching against it, mostly in the Muslim dominated north, where "strong anti-vaccination propaganda" has been disseminated, claiming that the vaccination was part of a plot to "control" the Muslim population. Anti-vaccination leaflets were handed out and public meetings held to discourage immunisation. Those behind this campaign, universally without real medical qualifications (though some are homeopaths or naturopaths) also claim the vaccines contain "harmful chemicals". More. A death that will haunt me for life.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

17th July 2016, 08:32 AM	#2
Jodie Philosopher Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 6,215	If the vaccine is manufactured outside of the country then they might be paranoid about them for that reason, thinking a larger 1st world country had ulterior motives. It seems to me that we could spend money setting up local manufacturing companies for vaccines rather than shipping the vaccine itself to the countries to alleviate some of this paranoia. You'll still have to deal with that fear of long term side effects that anti-vaxers seem to promote.
Jodie Philosopher Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 6,215	__________________ "When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd

18th July 2016, 02:25 AM	#3
Susheel Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 1,714	Despite the efforts of the current government India has not yet become the backwater hell hole many perceive it to be. Indian companies ds manufacture many of the more commonly available vaccines in the country. The current issue stems from a socio-political milieu in which a fundamentalist Hindu government at the centre has quite overtly generated a reactionary suspicion among a fundamentalist Islamic segment of the populace.
	__________________ I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon

18th July 2016, 02:39 AM	#4
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 27,832	Originally Posted by catsmate Diphtheria is back in the southern Indian state of Kerala and so far it's killed two children and left forty more ill. That's an easily preventable disease that's mostly considered a relic of the 1950s. Sounds like New Zealand - doctors here have been warning of a diphtheria epidemic here thanks to the absurdly low rate of vaccinations. Up to half of all kids in some parts of California aren't vaccinated. Idiots are everywhere. We should rejoice. My aunt died of diphtheria in 1920, when she was 7. Hooray for progress of humankind. Apologies for the cynicism.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

18th July 2016, 02:41 AM	#5
TheGoldcountry Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 5,858	As far as I am concerned, there is no such thing as too much cynicism when it comes to this anti-vax nonsense.
	__________________ I have no idea what you're trying to say, but I'm still pretty sure that you're wrong. -Akhenaten I sometimes think the Bible was inspired by Satan to make God look bad. And then it backfired on Him when He underestimated the stupidity of religious ideologues. -MontagK505

18th July 2016, 02:51 AM	#6
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 27,832	Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry As far as I am concerned, there is no such thing as too much cynicism when it comes to this anti-vax nonsense. I have to confess it's the one subject that makes my blood boil immediately. I will not sit and listen to anyone spouting anti-vax propaganda, and it's the only subject I'd be ready and willing to defend to death. You can bring all the bigfoot, 9/11 CT, perpetual motion, alien Moon Hoax nutters and I wouldn't bother blinking, but show me an anti-vaxer and I go into Neapolitan/Rottweiler cross mode. Anti-vaxers are the sickest kind of human alive. They suffer from some weird form of Münchhausen by Proxy Syndrome where they get pleasure from causing the death of children.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

18th July 2016, 06:46 PM	#7
Graham2001 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,326	Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry As far as I am concerned, there is no such thing as too much cynicism when it comes to this anti-vax nonsense. Agreed, you have in the case below you have several White Guys peddling anti-vax conspiracy theories to African American community leaders: Quote: ...the last thing we need is something that can contribute to the worsening of the general distrust that many African-Americans feel toward the medical profession. That’s why it’s so despicable of Andrew Wakefield and Del Bigtree to throw gasoline on the fire with their antivaccine movie VAXXED or its promotion of the “CDC Whistleblower” myth that the CDC somehow “covered up” evidence showing that the MMR causes autism in African-American boys... ...designed to target the African-American community with a story almost custom made to take advantage of the aforementioned distrust of the medical profession that runs rampant in the African-American community, particularly poorer African-American communities. http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/20...isinformation/
	__________________ "I need hard facts! Bring in the dowsers!" 'America Unearthed' Season 1, Episode 13: Hunt for the Holy Grail Everybody gets it wrong sometimes...

20th July 2016, 03:03 AM	#8
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,414	Originally Posted by Jodie If the vaccine is manufactured outside of the country then they might be paranoid about them for that reason, thinking a larger 1st world country had ulterior motives. It seems to me that we could spend money setting up local manufacturing companies for vaccines rather than shipping the vaccine itself to the countries to alleviate some of this paranoia. You'll still have to deal with that fear of long term side effects that anti-vaxers seem to promote. India is self-sufficient wrt production of DPT and DT vaccines (along with TT, BCP, polio, measles, MMR, Hep B and rabies) and has been since at least 1999 AFAIK and probably many years earlier. There are several vaccine producers, public and private sector.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

20th July 2016, 03:04 AM	#9
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,414	Originally Posted by Susheel Despite the efforts of the current government India has not yet become the backwater hell hole many perceive it to be. Indian companies ds manufacture many of the more commonly available vaccines in the country. The current issue stems from a socio-political milieu in which a fundamentalist Hindu government at the centre has quite overtly generated a reactionary suspicion among a fundamentalist Islamic segment of the populace. Indeed vaccine production and research in India are well established and effective.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

20th July 2016, 03:05 AM	#10
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,414	Originally Posted by The Atheist Sounds like New Zealand - doctors here have been warning of a diphtheria epidemic here thanks to the absurdly low rate of vaccinations. Up to half of all kids in some parts of California aren't vaccinated. Idiots are everywhere. We should rejoice. My aunt died of diphtheria in 1920, when she was 7. Hooray for progress of humankind. Apologies for the cynicism. I have a slight personal interest; some years ago I was exposed to diphtheria in London because of a couple of idiotic USAian parents who didn't have their children vaccinated and travelled to several countries where it was prevalent.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

20th July 2016, 04:59 PM	#11
Civet Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,657	I remember being impressed when India was certified polio-free years ago. Let's hope they don't lose that status.
Civet Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,657

21st July 2016, 10:54 AM	#12
Susheel Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 1,714	Add to this the fact that the goverment actively promotes woo in place of medicinr.
	__________________ I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon

21st July 2016, 11:03 AM	#13
blutoski Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 12,369	Originally Posted by Susheel Add to this the fact that the goverment actively promotes woo in place of medicinr. I think this is the main problem, unfortunately. India and Pakistani government officials are a little too interdependent on cash from altmedders, mostly homeopaths. We had an active homeopath on this very forum who was boasting about his endorsements from Pakistani army brass, for example. The second problem is that even if the vaccines are manufactured domestically, it's still seen as a foreign project and mistrusted. It doesn't help that the assassination of Osama bin Laden was facilitated by a spy posing as an MD who was using the cover to take DNA samples in the community. Link: [Senior Pakistani doctor who organised vaccine programme in Abbottabad arrested by ISI for working with US agents]. In other words: vaccination programs are now regarded as a CIA plot in many Asian communities.
	__________________ "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett

21st July 2016, 11:32 AM	#14
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 27,832	Originally Posted by Susheel Add to this the fact that the goverment actively promotes woo in place of medicinr. Yes, and not about to change any time soon. You have a very hard sell over there and have my complete sympathy. Still, as I see the people lining up here for their ayurvedic astrology consultations, at least you can take heart that people in other countries are buying it, too.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.