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Tags police incidents , police issues , police misconduct charges , shooting incidents

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Old 24th September 2020, 02:53 PM   #1
RolandRat
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Police killing.

"A black man has been shot dead by homeless outreach police in San Clemente, California, after reportedly being stopped for jaywalking.

On Wednesday two Orange County Sheriff’s Department (OCSD) deputies, who were part of the city’s homeless outreach team, approached a man who is thought to have been homeless, according to The Orange County Register.

“Shortly after they contacted him, a physical altercation broke out,” said OCSD Seargent Dennis Breckner. “Shortly after that two gunshots were fired.”

Sgt Breckner said that CCTV footage from a nearby business at the time of the incident showed the man reaching for a deputy’s weapon during the altercation.

Chloe Miller, 23, told The County Register that she witnessed the two officers and the man in the middle of the road before moving back to the pavement where they then tackled him to the floor.

“I heard two shots, and it was after he was on the ground,” Ms Miller said.

Mobile footage taken of the incident reported by KNBC showed the man shouting “stop touching me,” as he attempts to walk past two deputies and the officer's gesturing for the man to sit down.

The man refuses to sit down and deputies are later seen knocking the man to the ground and scream before two shots are fired in succession.


According to CBSLA witnesses said that a deputy screamed that the man had hold of the weapon just before shots were fired. Authorities did not immediately specify if the man was armed."

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...?ocid=msedgdhp

Another senseless killing or justified?
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Old 24th September 2020, 03:33 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
"A black man has been shot dead by homeless outreach police in San Clemente, California, after reportedly being stopped for jaywalking."
Insane. I am sure the excuses will be good, though.
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Old 24th September 2020, 04:09 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
"A black man has been shot dead by homeless outreach police in San Clemente, California, after reportedly being stopped for jaywalking.

On Wednesday two Orange County Sheriff’s Department (OCSD) deputies, who were part of the city’s homeless outreach team, approached a man who is thought to have been homeless, according to The Orange County Register.

“Shortly after they contacted him, a physical altercation broke out,” said OCSD Seargent Dennis Breckner. “Shortly after that two gunshots were fired.”

Sgt Breckner said that CCTV footage from a nearby business at the time of the incident showed the man reaching for a deputy’s weapon during the altercation.

Chloe Miller, 23, told The County Register that she witnessed the two officers and the man in the middle of the road before moving back to the pavement where they then tackled him to the floor.

“I heard two shots, and it was after he was on the ground,” Ms Miller said.

Mobile footage taken of the incident reported by KNBC showed the man shouting “stop touching me,” as he attempts to walk past two deputies and the officer's gesturing for the man to sit down.

The man refuses to sit down and deputies are later seen knocking the man to the ground and scream before two shots are fired in succession.


According to CBSLA witnesses said that a deputy screamed that the man had hold of the weapon just before shots were fired. Authorities did not immediately specify if the man was armed."

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...?ocid=msedgdhp

Another senseless killing or justified?
It will be interesting to see if this one gets traction or not. The deceased life was one that mattered and being homeless makes him even more sympathetic. If the racial profile of everybody involved fits the narrative, we might get some mostly peaceful riots out of it. It could just easily get swept down the memory hole like the 250 or so innocent White people who have been shot and killed for no reason by police officers in the United States since the George Floyd incident. It's very hard to predict where these things will go these days.
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Old 24th September 2020, 04:27 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
It will be interesting to see if this one gets traction or not. The deceased life was one that mattered and being homeless makes him even more sympathetic. If the racial profile of everybody involved fits the narrative, we might get some mostly peaceful riots out of it. It could just easily get swept down the memory hole like the 250 or so innocent White people who have been shot and killed for no reason by police officers in the United States since the George Floyd incident. It's very hard to predict where these things will go these days.
At this point, any acknowledgment that there is a very serious problem with the US police shooting people dead is progress of a kind.

I've been of the opinion for a while now that while race is likely a contributing factor to these types of killings that the over-riding problem is with the police killing people generally.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 25th September 2020, 12:07 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I've been of the opinion for a while now that while race is likely a contributing factor to these types of killings that the over-riding problem is with the police killing people generally.
^This.

If the outcome of this year's protests (and I have no high hopes on this at all, no matter who wins the election) results in improved police training in dealing with people with issues (mostly mental) then that will help everyone, not just the ones who are currently the most aggrieved.

You'd think people would be pissed off that anyone was being gunned down in situations like this as that implies that, well, anyone could be gunned down in situations like this.
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Old 25th September 2020, 12:23 AM   #6
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IMO, the overriding factor that keeps cops from escalating to the point of physical violence is whether the person in question is likely to sue their pants off or not.

The amount of violence police is willing to apply without checking themselves is inversely proportional to the legal and publicity battle they expect to face.

And because of underlying racism, Blacks and poor are not expected to be able to afford a drawn-out legal battle using an expensive law firm.
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Old 25th September 2020, 12:40 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
^This.

If the outcome of this year's protests (and I have no high hopes on this at all, no matter who wins the election) results in improved police training in dealing with people with issues (mostly mental) then that will help everyone, not just the ones who are currently the most aggrieved.

You'd think people would be pissed off that anyone was being gunned down in situations like this as that implies that, well, anyone could be gunned down in situations like this.
It's safe to say, looking at how the police, needlessly, escalated this encounter in to a deadly one that no lessons have been or will be learned by the "homeless outreach police" [WTF?] in San Clemente. Or perhaps we are witnessing policy?

One would think that given that lofty prefix they'd be well versed in dealing with mental health issues.

I'd suggest a better method of getting your feelings over would be to phone the station in particular and complain, then encourage as many others to do the same. Organise peaceful visits to the station to discuss and follow the complaints procedure. Swamp them using their own bureaucracy, legally.

Film every encounter.

The downside for many, with my approach, is that it won't get them a new telly or hit them with an adrenaline rush by panning in windows and general fire raising.
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Old 25th September 2020, 12:41 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
IMO, the overriding factor that keeps cops from escalating to the point of physical violence is whether the person in question is likely to sue their pants off or not.

The amount of violence police is willing to apply without checking themselves is inversely proportional to the legal and publicity battle they expect to face.

And because of underlying racism, Blacks and poor are not expected to be able to afford a drawn-out legal battle using an expensive law firm.
Armed people - at least in a group - apparently are also exempt from police brutality. So, be rich or be armed in a group when dealing with police.
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Old 25th September 2020, 01:42 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post

One would think that given that lofty prefix they'd be well versed in dealing with mental health issues.
That was my first thought too. They seem to be a dedicated "department" to deal with this type of issue. I'd have thought de-escalation would be something they should be versed in.
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Old 25th September 2020, 01:51 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Armed people - at least in a group - apparently are also exempt from police brutality. So, be rich or be armed in a group when dealing with police.
Ideally if you can also try and ensure that you're white - that can also significantly affect police officers' first reactions.

It won't prevent you being shot, but at least it's less likely that it'll be the officers' opening gambit.

Last edited by The Don; 25th September 2020 at 01:52 AM.
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Old 25th September 2020, 01:56 AM   #11
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Having a camera running used to be a good defense against police brutality - not anymore.
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Old 25th September 2020, 09:55 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
That was my first thought too. They seem to be a dedicated "department" to deal with this type of issue. I'd have thought de-escalation would be something they should be versed in.
San Clemente is THE beach drug city of Orange County.
Overwhelmingly white or hispanic and usually dealing in meth and heroin.
If they are doing outreach, perhaps they should conceal their deadly weapons or leave them back at the station. Having them visible can be a trigger.

This guy was wandering the middle of the road and combative, but it is only because he reached for the weapon that he was shot. This could be avoided. A lot of these people believe there are 'people out to get them(often gov't or secret mafia), total paranoia, and will do anything to get away. They genuinely fear for their lives.

One issue I see is that when training gives a legitimate 'out' for medical or mental issues, then 'fakers' quickly learn of it and try that to get out of being arrested even when they are perfectly sane. I have seen people who start complaining they cannot breathe, or that they are being hurt before an officer even touches them!
They need a lot more training to discern a situation properly.

Last edited by Sherkeu; 25th September 2020 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 25th September 2020, 10:09 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
IMO, the overriding factor that keeps cops from escalating to the point of physical violence is whether the person in question is likely to sue their pants off or not.

The amount of violence police is willing to apply without checking themselves is inversely proportional to the legal and publicity battle they expect to face.

And because of underlying racism, Blacks and poor are not expected to be able to afford a drawn-out legal battle using an expensive law firm.
The overwhelming majority of legal actions against LEA's regarding civil rights violations - including excessive force and unlawful use of lethal force - are done on a contingency fee basis.

I don't know of one that was done on the plaintiffs' dime up front.
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Old 25th September 2020, 10:11 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
escalating to the point of physical violence
And this here is the key problem. Lets assume that at the moment of the shooting, it was 100% justified. The questions are, should have things even have gotten to that point to begin with? Was this something worth escalating the situation over? Could the whole thing have been approached differently? To me it seems like very often the answers are "no", "no", and "absolutely".
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Old 25th September 2020, 10:26 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
IMO, the overriding factor that keeps cops from escalating to the point of physical violence is whether the person in question is likely to sue their pants off or not.

The amount of violence police is willing to apply without checking themselves is inversely proportional to the legal and publicity battle they expect to face.

And because of underlying racism, Blacks and poor are not expected to be able to afford a drawn-out legal battle using an expensive law firm.
In a civil case that is not true. If a lawyer thinks there is a case there will be no fee until the settlement.
Personally I doubt if lawsuits are a consideration to most police.
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Old 25th September 2020, 12:02 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
In a civil case that is not true. If a lawyer thinks there is a case there will be no fee until the settlement.
Personally I doubt if lawsuits are a consideration to most police.
They should be, but they are not. It would be interesting to see settlement money coming out of the overtime or capital improvement budgets for police, but they do not. It all comes from general funds in most jurisdictions.
We were going to get new cruisers on a 36 month basis, but Jones had to hit that guy three extra times last year, so we are pushing it back to 42 months. Be sure to thank Jones if your seat is completely broken down and your back is killing you at the end of the day!
What a silly thought.
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Old 25th September 2020, 12:31 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
San Clemente is THE beach drug city of Orange County.
Overwhelmingly white or hispanic and usually dealing in meth and heroin.
If they are doing outreach, perhaps they should conceal their deadly weapons or leave them back at the station. Having them visible can be a trigger.

This guy was wandering the middle of the road and combative, but it is only because he reached for the weapon that he was shot. This could be avoided. A lot of these people believe there are 'people out to get them(often gov't or secret mafia), total paranoia, and will do anything to get away. They genuinely fear for their lives.

One issue I see is that when training gives a legitimate 'out' for medical or mental issues, then 'fakers' quickly learn of it and try that to get out of being arrested even when they are perfectly sane. I have seen people who start complaining they cannot breathe, or that they are being hurt before an officer even touches them!
They need a lot more training to discern a situation properly.
If you combine mental illness with the ongoing media campaign that tries to convince black people that law enforcement is engaged in some ridiculous black genocide, you're going to have problems. Even without mental illness, if a black person is convinced that any police interaction is likely to result in his death, the rational response to seeing flashing lights in your rear view mirror is do whatever you can to escape and if you can't escape, fight back.

This is the kind of response that rarely ends well no matter the color of your skin.
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Old 25th September 2020, 01:22 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
They should be, but they are not. It would be interesting to see settlement money coming out of the overtime or capital improvement budgets for police, but they do not. It all comes from general funds in most jurisdictions.
We were going to get new cruisers on a 36 month basis, but Jones had to hit that guy three extra times last year, so we are pushing it back to 42 months. Be sure to thank Jones if your seat is completely broken down and your back is killing you at the end of the day!
What a silly thought.
THis would be one reform that could come from dumping negotiations with police unions. And yes, if it could lose them their personal retirement, that would also cause them to be more cautious.

It would also cause people to be more cautious about becoming a cop in the first place, which could backfire massively, though.

A large part of why entire departments should be dissolved and replaced is because of the toxic culture that many PDs cultivate (I note that white supremacists, who eagerly discuss "thug" or "rap" culture as the reason why police need to be insanely violent rarely discuss this matter.) Specifically, as we've discussed many times before, there's the idea beaten into their heads at every turn that they absolutely must rely on one another, that the public hates them, that the criminals will all kill them at the drop of a hat, and they must control every situation by being or threatening violence.

I've said before that this is self-defeating - that responding to everything with violence, threatened or realized, leads to everyone hating them, a few people who specifically try to kill as many of them as they can, and so forth. THis is not to say that going out to specifically ambush and kill police is good - it's terrible, clearly - but the complaint that leads to some of this is perfectly legitimate (this is as opposed to most right wing militias, who are mostly wrapped up in fever dreams of "jackbooted thugs" taking over, yet who eagerly if temporarily join with violent police departments in their mutual antipathy of nonwhite people).

Will this particular case lead to massive protests? Maybe, in the future - people are protesting Breonna Taylor's murder at the moment, but a revelation months down the line could easily spark another round in the future, assuming there's nothing people are also protesting at that point.

Was it justified? Not really, no. As others have said, armed and trigger-happy cops are likely the last people who should respond to anyone having a mental health crisis (I've been told this be many people, and will repeat it again - it's preferable to call the local fire department or hospital, by number, than to just call 911 and hope for the best, if you live with a person who is prone to such episodes).
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Old 25th September 2020, 01:25 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Having a camera running used to be a good defense against police brutality - not anymore.
Gonna disagree on that one:
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Old 25th September 2020, 02:25 PM   #20
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"Protests and anger over the shooting death of a homeless Black man by an Orange County sheriff’s deputy led city officials to declare an emergency 9 p.m. curfew in San Clemente Thursday. But a nighttime demonstration dispersed an hour earlier.

The City Council will reconvene in a special meeting Friday at 5:30 p.m. to decide whether to extend the curfew further.

Also Thursday, the Orange County Sheriff’s Department released a grainy photo that Sheriff Don Barnes said shows the man, Kurt Andras Reinhold, reaching for a deputy’s service weapon during a fight, shortly before he was shot and killed by a deputy.

A security camera from the hotel reportedly captured at least part of the altercation. The sheriff’s department did not release the video,

Barnes during a news conference on Thursday afternoon urged people to reserve judgment until the killing can be investigated.

Two deputies with a homeless outreach team encountered Reinhold, 42, around 1:15 Wednesday near the Hotel Miramar. Reinhold had come to the San Clemente area around 30 days prior, and members of the homeless outreach team had attempted on previous occasions to “try to establish a dialogue” with him to offer homeless services, the sheriff said.

Barnes said he could not comment on why the deputies contacted Reinhold on Wednesday, or on what led to the physical altercation. The sheriff did not identify the deputies, but said they were both trained in crisis intervention and de-escalation techniques.

The sheriff declined to comment on whether the deputies had a lawful reason to detain Reinhold, noting that the deputies and some witnesses have yet to be interviewed."

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/09/...r-deputys-gun/

Last edited by RolandRat; 25th September 2020 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 25th September 2020, 03:06 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
"Protests and anger over the shooting death of a homeless Black man by an Orange County sheriff’s deputy led city officials to declare an emergency 9 p.m. curfew in San Clemente Thursday. But a nighttime demonstration dispersed an hour earlier.

The City Council will reconvene in a special meeting Friday at 5:30 p.m. to decide whether to extend the curfew further.

Also Thursday, the Orange County Sheriff’s Department released a grainy photo that Sheriff Don Barnes said shows the man, Kurt Andras Reinhold, reaching for a deputy’s service weapon during a fight, shortly before he was shot and killed by a deputy.

A security camera from the hotel reportedly captured at least part of the altercation. The sheriff’s department did not release the video,

Barnes during a news conference on Thursday afternoon urged people to reserve judgment until the killing can be investigated.

Two deputies with a homeless outreach team encountered Reinhold, 42, around 1:15 Wednesday near the Hotel Miramar. Reinhold had come to the San Clemente area around 30 days prior, and members of the homeless outreach team had attempted on previous occasions to “try to establish a dialogue” with him to offer homeless services, the sheriff said.

Barnes said he could not comment on why the deputies contacted Reinhold on Wednesday, or on what led to the physical altercation. The sheriff did not identify the deputies, but said they were both trained in crisis intervention and de-escalation techniques.

The sheriff declined to comment on whether the deputies had a lawful reason to detain Reinhold, noting that the deputies and some witnesses have yet to be interviewed."

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/09/...r-deputys-gun/
There was a video released though:

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There is another video of them trying to get him out of the middle of the street.
It is at about 1:40 in this video:
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Old 25th September 2020, 05:03 PM   #22
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First video says error playing back for me. Second video is a very brief clip of a police officer and the victim. Do you know how the video was obtained?
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Old 25th September 2020, 05:31 PM   #23
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Jaywalking..... just another "crime" to add to the growing list of "crimes" for which summary execution is the penalty. Others include...

Jogging
Sitting on your couch eating ice cream
Passing a counterfeit $20 note (allegedly)
Lying in bed at home
Riding a bicycle
Shopping
Babysitting
Walking home
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Old 25th September 2020, 05:35 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
First video says error playing back for me. Second video is a very brief clip of a police officer and the victim. Do you know how the video was obtained?
Try this

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Sherkeu tried to include a time stamp in the URL, but the forum's BBCode can't deal with that.
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Old 25th September 2020, 08:01 PM   #25
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Well at least they did CPR.
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Old 27th September 2020, 11:13 AM   #26
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This a tragic example of the problem of using the police to fix problems other than law enforcement ones. Why is there a homeless outreach team in the Sheriff's office? We would all be safer and our police would be happier if we stopped using them to fix medical and social problems. There's near unanimous agreement that chemical dependency is a medical condition. Let's stop leaving it people who aren't medical professionals deal with it. It's not working and it's not fair to the police.

Homelessness is generally a combination of social ills and mental health problems.There are people who know how to deal with these issues. Generally speaking, they don't work for the police.
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Old 27th September 2020, 12:35 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Try this

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE



Sherkeu tried to include a time stamp in the URL, but the forum's BBCode can't deal with that.
Thanks. Their image doesn't make it clear if he really was reaching for the officers gun. It shows the struggle and what looks like the officer shooting the guy in the side/back. Interesting they didn't show what led up to the struggle.
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Old 28th September 2020, 07:55 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
This a tragic example of the problem of using the police to fix problems other than law enforcement ones. Why is there a homeless outreach team in the Sheriff's office? We would all be safer and our police would be happier if we stopped using them to fix medical and social problems. There's near unanimous agreement that chemical dependency is a medical condition. Let's stop leaving it people who aren't medical professionals deal with it. It's not working and it's not fair to the police.

Homelessness is generally a combination of social ills and mental health problems.There are people who know how to deal with these issues. Generally speaking, they don't work for the police.

Might the reason be that "homeless outreach team" is a euphemism for "squad whose job is to harass the homeless so they move elsewhere, or at least stop moving here"? Or am I just a hopeless cynic?
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Old 29th September 2020, 06:19 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Might the reason be that "homeless outreach team" is a euphemism for "squad whose job is to harass the homeless so they move elsewhere, or at least stop moving here"? Or am I just a hopeless cynic?
No you just have an accurate view of the relationship between police and homeless populations.
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Old 29th September 2020, 06:28 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Might the reason be that "homeless outreach team" is a euphemism for "squad whose job is to harass the homeless so they move elsewhere, or at least stop moving here"? Or am I just a hopeless cynic?
That's generally the case. These "outreach teams" usually busy themselves enforcing minor violations of the law that come with homelessness, with occasional larger operations where they raid homeless camps and throw away tents and other necessary for life possessions.
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Old 29th September 2020, 06:30 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
It will be interesting to see if this one gets traction or not. The deceased life was one that mattered and being homeless makes him even more sympathetic. If the racial profile of everybody involved fits the narrative, we might get some mostly peaceful riots out of it. It could just easily get swept down the memory hole like the 250 or so innocent White people who have been shot and killed for no reason by police officers in the United States since the George Floyd incident. It's very hard to predict where these things will go these days.
Why don't white communities care when police kill these people? It's a strange irony that Black Lives Matter protestors are much more likely to care about police brutality against white people than the "All Lives Matters" bootlickers.

Quote:
That’s why the family showed up for a small but emotional rally Saturday in support of Linden Cameron, the 13-year-old who was shot and injured by police.

About 40 people gathered in front of the Ogden Municipal Building to speak against police brutality and call for understanding and compassion for those with mental illness and disabilities. Some of the ralliers were also members of the Black Lives Matter movement in Utah.
https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/9/...ured-by-police
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Old 29th September 2020, 07:00 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Why don't white communities care when police kill these people? It's a strange irony that Black Lives Matter protestors are much more likely to care about police brutality against white people than the "All Lives Matters" bootlickers.
As tragic as the individual cases may be, you do need some kind of narrative that people are invested in that those individual tragedies can be fitted into in order to get people marching and/or you need a well of people ready to take to the streets who just need a catalyst.

I don't think that the majority of white America is there.
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Old 29th September 2020, 01:23 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Why don't white communities care when police kill these people? It's a strange irony that Black Lives Matter protestors are much more likely to care about police brutality against white people than the "All Lives Matters" bootlickers.



https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/9/...ured-by-police
First of all, BLM doesn't give a rat's ass about what happens to White people at all. They don't even care about black lives unless a White person is involved in ending it. Even then, only a select few get national attention. Dijon Kizzee's death has had some legs; but nothing like George Floyd. Meanwhile, Anthony McClain seems to have disappeared down the memory hole. Why the media pays attention to some and not to other, I don't know.

But it's the media acting as an information gatekeeper. I think the far more numerous White people who are shot and killed by the police don't cause an outrage because they are not publicized. Nobody knows about them. If every time a White person was shot and killed after lunging towards a police officer with a knife or after attacking a police officer, grabbing his taser and shooting him with it, the newspapers screamed ANOTHER INNOCENT WHITE MAN MURDERED BY POLICE FOR NO REASON!!!, we might see rioting in the streets.

Then again, maybe we wouldn't. White people suffer from pathological altruism and they feel guilt for creating a society based on individualism and meritocracy which oppresses black people (yet somehow allows east Asians, south Asians, and Jews to flourish). We criticize ourselves more harshly and hold ourselves to a higher standard of behavior. So it's possible that we would look at all the incidents involving White people being shot and killed by the police and see (correctly) that it was the behavior of the individual that forced the police to use lethal force.

The "meta-theme" of the Summer of George is that black people who engage in aggressive, dangerous behavior and act violently toward the police should not be stopped because black people don't have agency. If everybody was held to same standard of behavior and it was known that violent and dangerous White people were getting shot and killed by the police just as often as violent and dangerous black people were, maybe there wouldn't be any rioting and looting and violence at all. Black people and White people would look at police shootings as sad and tragic but as another example of a criminal getting what he ******* deserved and not as a ******** racist incident.

I know that ain't gonna happen. The people who control the mass media are pathological liars who have a vested interest in stirring up conflict between people. Pitting race against race is a very convenient way to do that. But it's a nice dream.
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Old 29th September 2020, 01:28 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
First of all, BLM doesn't give a rat's ass about what happens to White people at all. They don't even care about black lives unless a White person is involved in ending it. Even then, only a select few get national attention. Dijon Kizzee's death has had some legs; but nothing like George Floyd. Meanwhile, Anthony McClain seems to have disappeared down the memory hole. Why the media pays attention to some and not to other, I don't know.

But it's the media acting as an information gatekeeper. I think the far more numerous White people who are shot and killed by the police don't cause an outrage because they are not publicized. Nobody knows about them. If every time a White person was shot and killed after lunging towards a police officer with a knife or after attacking a police officer, grabbing his taser and shooting him with it, the newspapers screamed ANOTHER INNOCENT WHITE MAN MURDERED BY POLICE FOR NO REASON!!!, we might see rioting in the streets.

Then again, maybe we wouldn't. White people suffer from pathological altruism and they feel guilt for creating a society based on individualism and meritocracy which oppresses black people (yet somehow allows east Asians, south Asians, and Jews to flourish). We criticize ourselves more harshly and hold ourselves to a higher standard of behavior. So it's possible that we would look at all the incidents involving White people being shot and killed by the police and see (correctly) that it was the behavior of the individual that forced the police to use lethal force.

The "meta-theme" of the Summer of George is that black people who engage in aggressive, dangerous behavior and act violently toward the police should not be stopped because black people don't have agency. If everybody was held to same standard of behavior and it was known that violent and dangerous White people were getting shot and killed by the police just as often as violent and dangerous black people were, maybe there wouldn't be any rioting and looting and violence at all. Black people and White people would look at police shootings as sad and tragic but as another example of a criminal getting what he ******* deserved and not as a ******** racist incident.

I know that ain't gonna happen. The people who control the mass media are pathological liars who have a vested interest in stirring up conflict between people. Pitting race against race is a very convenient way to do that. But it's a nice dream.
The people who control the mass media are pitting the races against each other, huh? I wonder who (((they))) are?

I don't know why I replied to you at all, this is my fault really.
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Old 30th September 2020, 04:47 AM   #35
Craig4
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Might the reason be that "homeless outreach team" is a euphemism for "squad whose job is to harass the homeless so they move elsewhere, or at least stop moving here"? Or am I just a hopeless cynic?
I can't think of another conclusion unless the deputies on that squad have access to resources to assist the homeless. Outreach to do what? If they can't help them with food, shelter, chemical dependency, mental health, then it's outreach so they can play homeless soccer.
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Old 1st October 2020, 04:56 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
As tragic as the individual cases may be, you do need some kind of narrative that people are invested in that those individual tragedies can be fitted into in order to get people marching and/or you need a well of people ready to take to the streets who just need a catalyst.

I don't think that the majority of white America is there.
And yet white sup - um, I mean "white people" like CaptainHowdy seem highly invested in criticizing groups like Black Lives Matter for not protesting police murders of anyone who isn't black (which they routinely do join such protest, as we saw with Justine Damond, DAPL protestors, and white, striking miners in Kentucky). One would think that people like CaptainHowdy and similar supr-um, "people" would organize, or at least join in on, these protests.

That is, if they themselves cared about police brutality against white people, rather than being the exact sort of person who likely spend time on white supremacist forums worshiping violent goons on police forces gloating that white people who do join in on anti-police brutality protests, and thus expose themselves to police brutality, are actually "****** lovers" who "get what they deserve". Which I'm absolutely certain people like the Captain would absolutely never do.

*cough*

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Old 1st October 2020, 05:16 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I can't think of another conclusion unless the deputies on that squad have access to resources to assist the homeless. Outreach to do what? If they can't help them with food, shelter, chemical dependency, mental health, then it's outreach so they can play homeless soccer.
According to this website:

https://www.san-clemente.org/departm...less-resources

"The City has received many inquiries from residents asking about what types of resources and services are being provided to the City’s homeless and the steps being taken to address their concerns.

As part of the City’s ongoing effort to reduce homelessness and to address the concern of residents, the City has contracted with City Net to provide mobile outreach services. In addition, Mercy House on behalf of the County of Orange, provides mobile outreach services as well.

As homeless outreach providers, it is their goal to better understand the needs of the homeless within the community. City Net and Mercy House staff will work closely with the Orange County Sheriff’s Department to provide outreach and case management for homeless individuals and families they encounter. They will also provide the appropriate resources for those in need of assistance via their vast network of resources with other partners."
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